NB weak? pvp discussion and future thoughts on 1.6

Suntzu1414

The above posts-- all have good points. From my perspective:

A Self Heal is needed...


NB is an amazingly diverse class (probably the best), still, to make this diversity complete-- a Heal is needed, this would give NB "depth in class".

Please ESO/Zeni. Consider NB Self Heal.


Kill Well
ST

Lynx7386

Personally I'm of the opinion that all classes should have their own emergency self heal ability as well as an aoe root.

DDuke

Having every class supposed to spam heals or dmg shields for survival doesn't really do much to promote build diversity.

What happened to other alternate ways of reducing (or avoiding) incoming dmg?

E.g. invisibility/stealth, flat dmg reduction, temporary immunity (like ice block), defensive CCs, elemental walls that block damage from certain direction etc etc

Or you could just give everyone heals and force them down their throats, essentially making the game simplified & dumbed down.

I know which version I won't be playing.

Lynx7386

What happened to other alternate ways of reducing (or avoiding) incoming dmg?

E.g. invisibility/stealth, flat dmg reduction, temporary immunity (like ice block), defensive CCs, elemental walls that block damage from certain direction etc etc

According to what we've seen from ESO, all of those things would overcomplicate the system. Afterall, this game is meant to cater to the simplest playstyle possible.

Bouvin

Lynx7386 wrote: »

They're not really removing the stamina regeneration from haste, one morph of the new skill will still have it.

Good deal.

Last I read they were getting rid of Haste.

I'd rather see Blue and Agony replaced or reworked personally.

So that's good news.

Lynx7386

Last I read they were getting rid of Haste.

They are, they're replacing haste with this grim resolve or whatever it's called. However, one of the morphs for grim resolve will still give you +40% stamina recovery while it's active.

Joy_Division

Spangla wrote: »

Actually I'd say my nb has been nerfed last 2 patches.

Resto staff nerf and sneak nerf. Huge nerfs.

You are trolling - bring sorc in line with nbs! HA

They are far superior already.

1. Resto staff is not a NB skill. Nor did that nerf only effect NBs.

2. Sneak is not a NB skill. Nor did that nerf only effect NBs.

3. Your statement about sorcs only reveals how biased you are.

Cody

Spangla wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Savos wrote: »

1. Do NBs aoe damage potential compete with Dks and sorcs? if yes how and if no how can they achieve similar damage.

2. Can skilled NBs solo wipe small groups of enemy players? think of a Dk dropping his banner at the right time and killing a group of enemies trying to turn a flag or a sorc negate and streaking pressuring them to wipe. can nightblades achieve the same thing with some combo of abilities or is our class just not meant to do such things?

3. Are just all the good players in eso playing Dks and sorcs because NBs aren't ever going to see that much power anytime soon?

4. What are your thoughts on 1.6, do you think NBs will have a better chance at LB when 1.6 comes out? any secret builds or new play style you would like to share.

Your premise is wrong. Next to DKs, NBs are the best class in PvP right now. The leaderboards tell you absolutely nothing about that though. Leaderboards in ESO measure time played, whether you play in groups, and whether you know how to AP farm. Nothing to do with skill or balance.

1. NBs are potentially the highest damage dealing class when played right. In PvP, this is most common for Medium Armor stamina builds with a bow. Snipe open, then weave Poison Injection and Light Attacks. Pretty much it.

2. Sword and Board Sap-Tank NBs can 1vX almost as well as DKs. And it's pretty much just holding block and pressing 1 button for Sap.

3. DKs are probably the most played class. That's true because they've been the strongest class since before the game launched and are the easiest to play. Sorcs are probably the least played in PvP right now because they are the weakest. Again, NBs are probably #2 in popularity just like in power. ZOS has done nothing except buff NBs since launch (while Sorcs have seen nothing but nerfs). Funny thing is, NBs weren't weak at launch because of the class mechanics. It was because of bugged skills (like passives not working.) ZOS fixed the bugs AND buffed the class, which is why NBs are so powerful now.

4. NBs will be getting a new damage buff skill that could add even more to their DPS. Hopefully though their overall pecking order will DECREASE as Templars and Sorcerers should be getting the majority of the buffs to bring them in line with DKs and NBs. As for the LBs, again, that has nothing to do with the conversation. If you play 24/7, defend a lot of keeps, play in groups, and farm resource towers for AP, you'll be top 10 regardless of class.

Actually I'd say my nb has been nerfed last 2 patches.

Resto staff nerf and sneak nerf. Huge nerfs.

You are trolling - bring sorc in line with nbs! HA

They are far superior already.

There have been no NB buffs. If there have I have not read about, heard about, or noticed them.

Cody

NordJitsu wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Savos wrote: »

1. Do NBs aoe damage potential compete with Dks and sorcs? if yes how and if no how can they achieve similar damage.

2. Can skilled NBs solo wipe small groups of enemy players? think of a Dk dropping his banner at the right time and killing a group of enemies trying to turn a flag or a sorc negate and streaking pressuring them to wipe. can nightblades achieve the same thing with some combo of abilities or is our class just not meant to do such things?

3. Are just all the good players in eso playing Dks and sorcs because NBs aren't ever going to see that much power anytime soon?

4. What are your thoughts on 1.6, do you think NBs will have a better chance at LB when 1.6 comes out? any secret builds or new play style you would like to share.

Your premise is wrong. Next to DKs, NBs are the best class in PvP right now. The leaderboards tell you absolutely nothing about that though. Leaderboards in ESO measure time played, whether you play in groups, and whether you know how to AP farm. Nothing to do with skill or balance.

1. NBs are potentially the highest damage dealing class when played right. In PvP, this is most common for Medium Armor stamina builds with a bow. Snipe open, then weave Poison Injection and Light Attacks. Pretty much it.

2. Sword and Board Sap-Tank NBs can 1vX almost as well as DKs. And it's pretty much just holding block and pressing 1 button for Sap.

3. DKs are probably the most played class. That's true because they've been the strongest class since before the game launched and are the easiest to play. Sorcs are probably the least played in PvP right now because they are the weakest. Again, NBs are probably #2 in popularity just like in power. ZOS has done nothing except buff NBs since launch (while Sorcs have seen nothing but nerfs). Funny thing is, NBs weren't weak at launch because of the class mechanics. It was because of bugged skills (like passives not working.) ZOS fixed the bugs AND buffed the class, which is why NBs are so powerful now.

4. NBs will be getting a new damage buff skill that could add even more to their DPS. Hopefully though their overall pecking order will DECREASE as Templars and Sorcerers should be getting the majority of the buffs to bring them in line with DKs and NBs. As for the LBs, again, that has nothing to do with the conversation. If you play 24/7, defend a lot of keeps, play in groups, and farm resource towers for AP, you'll be top 10 regardless of class.

Idk about second most powerful, nor have I heard of any of these buffs that you claim happened.

What buffs have NBs had? I am not trying to be a jerk, I actually do want to know.

On my phone at work so I can't easily look them up and repost now but just use the search bar. ZOS made an entire thread about improvements to nbs.

And the buffs in that thread aren't even all they did. If you really want to know spend some time looking over past patch notes. I shouldn't have to do the work for you!

well you see there lies the problem.. I DO read patch notes... and I don't recall ANY major NB buffs. So either i just missed them, you are trolling, or you are lying.

Spangla

Joy_Division wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Actually I'd say my nb has been nerfed last 2 patches.

Resto staff nerf and sneak nerf. Huge nerfs.

You are trolling - bring sorc in line with nbs! HA

They are far superior already.

1. Resto staff is not a NB skill. Nor did that nerf only effect NBs.

2. Sneak is not a NB skill. Nor did that nerf only effect NBs.

3. Your statement about sorcs only reveals how biased you are.

1. Resto Staff is forced on nb's because they have no self-heal.... durp

2. Sneak is something the class is clearly designed to lean towards.... durp

3. Just pointing out the BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS.

Aeratus

I play NB in pvp, using a resto/shield magicka build. In general, I think the class is good. As mentioned earlier, leaderboards say nothing about class balance, because it only relates to the amount of time, and not player skill.

There are generally two types of NBs you see in cyrodiil. The sniper-type bowblade NB, and the sword-and-shield style NB (generally magicka build). Snipers have been given a big boost lately, and bows (rather than LA resto/shield) has become the FOTM for all classes. As to the sword and board NB, this build was always strong and remains so. A third type of NB is the magicka-based melee assassin, but there are limited opportunities on the battlefield where they can be effective.

The lack of a self-heal is a glaring hole in the skill line, but you can make your build and playstyle around it.

If you are playing as part of a big group, there will be healers around you spamming heals all over the place. So you will receive healing even if you are a full stamina build.

If you are mainly concerned about 1v1 small fights, any class (even stamina build) can make a tanky build for sustained 1v1 combat by equipping a shield. The shielded assault morph of the 1h-shield line gives anybody a quick shield. You can also use soul tether and the malubeth helm to augment survivability. If you want to take it to the extreme, you can even farm DSA and get the master's sword.

If you are a pure ganker and you get exposed, you won't survive whether you have heals or not. If you're a DK, maybe you can get a few heals off and survive for 5 more seconds, but in the end it doesn't make a difference.

However, one thing that DKs and Templars do better is that they have more options in terms of build variety if they want to play somewhere between the extremes of pure ganker and pure sustained combat.

Suntzu1414

Self Heal would give this Class more depth.
Till then, its same same...


"Bending" is probably the best description of NB


Kill Well
ST

Cody

Aeratus wrote: »

I play NB in pvp, using a resto/shield magicka build. In general, I think the class is good. As mentioned earlier, leaderboards say nothing about class balance, because it only relates to the amount of time, and not player skill.

There are generally two types of NBs you see in cyrodiil. The sniper-type bowblade NB, and the sword-and-shield style NB (generally magicka build). Snipers have been given a big boost lately, and bows (rather than LA resto/shield) has become the FOTM for all classes. As to the sword and board NB, this build was always strong and remains so. A third type of NB is the magicka-based melee assassin, but there are limited opportunities on the battlefield where they can be effective.

The lack of a self-heal is a glaring hole in the skill line, but you can make your build and playstyle around it.

If you are playing as part of a big group, there will be healers around you spamming heals all over the place. So you will receive healing even if you are a full stamina build.

If you are mainly concerned about 1v1 small fights, any class (even stamina build) can make a tanky build for sustained 1v1 combat by equipping a shield. The shielded assault morph of the 1h-shield line gives anybody a quick shield. You can also use soul tether and the malubeth helm to augment survivability. If you want to take it to the extreme, you can even farm DSA and get the master's sword.

If you are a pure ganker and you get exposed, you won't survive whether you have heals or not. If you're a DK, maybe you can get a few heals off and survive for 5 more seconds, but in the end it doesn't make a difference.

However, one thing that DKs and Templars do better is that they have more options in terms of build variety if they want to play somewhere between the extremes of pure ganker and pure sustained combat.

I should not have to equip a shield or a resto staff just to be effective in 1v1. That is complete nonsense. One should not be forced into a play style just to be able to participate in 1v1s.(and thankfully that is not actually needed, or people would be in a huge fuss)

Draehl

Has anyone tried heavy armor magicka NB on PTS (Resto or Destro)? I'd like to play and try it out, but due to bandwidth considerations would prefer only downloading the patch once when its live.

Aeratus

I should not have to equip a shield or a resto staff just to be effective in 1v1. That is complete nonsense. One should not be forced into a play style just to be able to participate in 1v1s.(and thankfully that is not actually needed, or people would be in a huge fuss)

Well, you answered your own concern. 1v1 isn't even a game mode. Furthermore, 1v1 situations are relatively rare if you play naturally in Cyrodiil.

Deviante

If you want to be an AP farmer then its not about how good your class is its about how strong and organized your zerg team is and how many hours you put in.

I have been plagued with the feeling of playing an underpowered class since i hit vet 10 a few days after release.
Truth be told I am only just now discovering how strong my nightblade can be and it is not so much about the class but more about the playstyle.

Pick your build and pick your fights. Just because someone has 1 million points on the campaign 2 days into it doesnt mean they are a superior class, it just means they are a farmer and have likely spent very little time contributing to the campaign but rather holed up at a resource or tower, aoe farming scrubs with there zerg that feed them ap constantly.

Stannum

Aeratus wrote: »

The lack of a self-heal is a glaring hole in the skill line, but you can make your build and playstyle around it.

Does really NB need "ohh sh@..." heals? really you can replace it with tactic as bow NB or melee magika assasins should kill quick or evade and stealth they don't need to tank when they are charged it's not their role. And if you want to play tanky NB who can stand massive group attack 1h&shileld heavy+5light magika build, sap, siphoning attacks, absorb magic and bats is good choise and gets enought healing when there are lots of enemies.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

I play stamina NB from begining and i think that NB for my stile fits perfectly. Efficiency of your build is thightly connected to your playstile. U dont need to play with sword and board to do that. I play group play ( 15-20 people team - but no zerging nor spamming ) with no deffensive skills ( except cloak ). In average i have death/kill ratio around 1/10. More or less i do my job for the group without problems ( taking out snipers , healers and making life miserable to shielders). I simply dont do 1Vs1 unless i am forced to do that coz simply i dont think that eso meta is ballanced to provide for fair fight considering people are building their chars for different purposes ( ofc that doesnt apply to guys who are dueling). In another words - i dont play to dominate - i play for my team victory.
How things will work in 1.6 - dont know - its way to early to make any comments on that.

Fatalyis

Draehl wrote: »

Has anyone tried heavy armor magicka NB on PTS (Resto or Destro)? I'd like to play and try it out, but due to bandwidth considerations would prefer only downloading the patch once when its live.

I did for a short while, just to test it out (in PvP). The biggest issue I had was in Magicka recovery. Now, mind you, this was just in template gear, so I would imagine a full HA set of Seducer + Magnus would help quite a bit. I did notice a big improvement to survivability vs. wearing full Light armor. Probably something I'll tinker around with if I decide to stay Magicka on my NB....but I'm currently leaning towards Stamina after 1.6 goes live.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Except S&B Sap NBs don't kill anything. They don't die, but nothng else does either. When's the last time you've seen Sap on a kill report? When's the last time you've seen talons or banner?

This. I have used the sap build before and though you can survive for a bit longer you don't kill anyone at all.

Personally I either go support or gank style. All magicka melee on one bar and other bar a few ranged spells and some utility. With my gank build I can take 2 players if they are mediocre players (mainly because there is a good chance one will be healing them and even out DPS can't always keep up). 1v1 NB, IMHO, is the strongest class in the game. I'm a bit angered by the new change to NB in 1.6 since it ruins my magicka melee build. Majority of what I use is going to be stamina based. I hate stamina based builds because of the simple fact so many things take stamina. Dodge, sprinting, sneaking, blocking, break free. If you just lock someone down with something like mass hysteria you will effectively shut down a stamina based player because of how much they have to use break free or die.

still testing cloak on PTS, not sure if it is fixed yet.

As far as no self heal, it looks like I may add vigor to my bar.

Aeratus

A sap tank isn't meant to be played alone tho. A sap tank is meant to play in packs. When you have multiple sap tanks pushing the line, nothing stands in their way, since they feed off of each other. Also, sap's purpose isn't to deal damage specifically, but to generate ultimate for either batswarm or veil.

But from what I can tell, sap tanking is dead in 1.6 so this discussion is moot soon.

ShadowDisciple

I Can get in and burst a healer in the middle of their group and safely leave with shadpw cloack....for me veiled strike is core ability...and i love being the stealthy ganker in sieges...i sent home so many enemies and even turned a tide in some sieges...

Take note its in non vet campaign as i am still fairly new player and i lvl slow cuz i pvp alot and i do slow questing, reading quests and generally takin my time...only thing that i dislike is that nb is more magicka based whereas a stealthy assassin seems more stamina based to me

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Aeratus wrote: »

A sap tank isn't meant to be played alone tho. A sap tank is meant to play in packs. When you have multiple sap tanks pushing the line, nothing stands in their way, since they feed off of each other. Also, sap's purpose isn't to deal damage specifically, but to generate ultimate for either batswarm or veil.

But from what I can tell, sap tanking is dead in 1.6 so this discussion is moot soon.

I agree with this too. The only time I have sap on my bar is if I am with a group and am actually healing. one bar is completely filled with resto staff skills while the other has sap, funnel health, impale, dark cloak, and immovable. I can stand back and heal my group or be directly in the battle and still heal my group. Instead of calling it a sap tank, it should be called a sap healer lol. I consider it my blood mage build. Again, NB is strongest in 1v1 PvP using a (my) gank/melee build.

QuiCkyRa

Savos wrote: »

Hello and good day fellow Nightblades, so i recently looked at the leader board and noticed that NBs didn't make it into the top ten AP earned this campain (thornblade Eu) this saddens and worries me since the last time i saw a nightblade earning mad AP was Quicky Ra in AB2 (long time ago)

dont worry im back leading the leaderboard. :P

Cody

if fear and cloak get nerfed into uselessness like people want, then the class WILL need a good self heal and a good damage shield.

Im sorry to all you "NB OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!" peeps, but if you take anyway my classes survivallbility, I want it replaced with heals and a damage shield. it is only fair.