Templar or Nightblade?

Stumkrav

I’ve both nb/templar at 30-40 and I liked both tbh, but unfortunately I want to focus just in one of them first.

I’ll do PVE/PVP, but I want a class that can heal/support/dps when I wish and be competent. Solo roaming pvp or group based pvp content, even if I want to kill alone or healing my team mates. A class that can be a machine farming VR/claglorn, healing dungeons, have a slot in trials or doing DPS (maybe tankin anytime) etc…

Yes I know 1.6 will change things, but IDK, Templar feels very good at support but lacks dmg compared to my NB, at least at 40.

Hope if you can enlighten me with the decision. Both seems fun, but templar feels more flexible… I’m right? NB it’s cool and all, but maybe they are not as good as support class or solo PVE farm?

Lynx7386

Unless you constantly respec, neither class can do everything you want to do. You really need to focus on one role: healing, tanking, or damage - trying to halfway yourself between all three is just going to make your character mediocre at everything.

Templars are the better healers of the two. Templars can do substantial damage, but they need to use a 2h/stamina build to do it, which means they wont be healing.

Nightblades can deal greater damage of the two, but will also need a stamina build to do so, meaning they wont be good healers.

Both are capable of tanking, but again you'll need a build and gear setup which isnt very conducive of healing or damage.

Stumkrav

Which is better for solo pve farming anyway?

DeLindsay

At lowish levels @Lynx7386 is basically correct, pick one main spec and focus on that. Once you have enough SP it makes literally no difference as any character can easily be proficient in all 3 Roles. The only thing you might have to do with some regularity is change Attribute layout if you go between Stamina and Magicka builds regularly.

Stumkrav wrote: »

Which is better for solo pve farming anyway?

Both are fine and I've seen Templars soloing 2-3 packs in Spellscar and I can as a NB easily solo 2-3 packs in Spellscar. It's more about how capable you are with your build, not what Class it is. I'd say at lower levels NB might be a little better at soloing if for nothing else you can Cloak up and run away if things go bad. As for soloing, I personally have found Magicka builds to be easier to solo with than Stamina builds even after they buffed Stamina like crazy. Although Stamina is the AOE DPS king atm, it's just a glass canon.

tplink3r1

I would wait for the update 6 patch notes before making the decision.

Stumkrav

tplink3r1 wrote: »

I would wait for the update 6 patch notes before making the decision.

I don't think Champion System would change so much. There's only passives inside, I believe. Idk, templar seems fantastic as a healer, but I do want to play healer/dps, not just the same archetype over and over...

tplink3r1

Stumkrav wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

I would wait for the update 6 patch notes before making the decision.

I don't think Champion System would change so much. There's only passives inside, I believe. Idk, templar seems fantastic as a healer, but I do want to play healer/dps, not just the same archetype over and over...

update 6 is going to change a LOT of class abilities, some of them are going to be completely remaked.

Stumkrav

Yes but not all, I belive there only 1 changed for everybody, not all the skills.

I think you guys have so much hope for 1.6.

aniway, I think templar is the best choice for me. NB is a glass canon class.

tplink3r1

Stumkrav wrote: »

Yes but not all, I belive there only 1 changed for everybody, not all the skills.

I think you guys have so much hope for 1.6.

aniway, I think templar is the best choice for me. NB is a glass canon class.

only 1 is being changed? source?
As far as we know, we are only getting one new ability, but we still dont know anything about the balancing of existing abilities.

Stumkrav

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Stumkrav wrote: »

Yes but not all, I belive there only 1 changed for everybody, not all the skills.

I think you guys have so much hope for 1.6.

aniway, I think templar is the best choice for me. NB is a glass canon class.

only 1 is being changed? source?
As far as we know, we are only getting one new ability, but we still dont know anything about the balancing of existing abilities.

I mean, we don't know what is in store for sure, but they only has announced 1 changed skill for all of us. I highly doubt they would revamp all those skill trees.

DPS would be the same or a little better, but ofc, I hope they are focusing on fixing those damm skills rather than improving numbers.

Syntse

You should level both of them to lvl 50 before 1.6 and then decide which one you want to continue to play with.

Stumkrav

Yeah, but leveling took too much time! I'm a guy who likes to see all the map completed, so that means levelig a zone takes me 1-2 days (played)....

I want one at vr1 before 1.6 hits live (those glorius 30 points!) So yeah, maybe I'll do it with my templar, and then level NB when CS hits.

Who knows, maybe ZEN removes the stigma around the templar "DPS/TANK nope nope nope, only healing!" (I guess not, but still...)

Really like the "light cleric class" more than ninja/stabbed/red glowing guy (which is cool too, buyt you know)

DeLindsay

Stumkrav wrote: »

Who knows, maybe ZEN removes the stigma around the templar "DPS/TANK nope nope nope, only healing!" (I guess not, but still...)

Really like the "light cleric class" more than ninja/stabbed/red glowing guy (which is cool too, buyt you know)

No such stigma exists for Templar Tanks, they are great for it. Templar DPS since 1.5 is also good with 2H, and there has been several working on a good CS build that's pushing 1-1.2K DPS ST. Also you contradict yourself in several statements.

Stumkrav wrote: »

Idk, templar seems fantastic as a healer, but I do want to play healer/dps, not just the same archetype over and over...

You go on to say in a separate post that NB is sticky-stabby-glass cannon, of which only some are, many NB's are running the same end game CS DPS build that all Classes do, or the very popular FunnelBlade build. ALL Classes can be Stealthy-stabby-glass cannons or sustain monsters, ALL Classes can be proper Tanks and ALL Classes can be good Healers. The only Roles you don't see with regularity are Templar DPS, Sorc Tanks and DK Healers, but there are plenty out there puling those off to great effect.

Moral of the story is play what you enjoy to play and don't worry about what other's think of how you play. It's a game, not a job.

Stumkrav

DeLindsay: You said the truth, but there are some people runing around with his elitism, and if you're not one he is demanding... you has no place.

Cody

Nightblades are superior to all. Anyone that does not have at least one Nightblade is a lesser being, and will be sacrificed to Sithis in due time.

ok, serious time:) it depends on what you want to do: no one class can do everything(and no, OP DKs cant do everything either:))

Templars are the best healers and make for great tanks and melee builds, but suck at ranged combat.

Nightblades put out a lot of damage and are great at ganking/burst damage, but have no good self heals of their own, making it hard to have high survivability. NBs can still be good tanks despite this disadvantage. In fact I personally think NBs make the best tanks in the game, and would rather have a NB tank than a DK, Templar, or sorcerer tank. Why do NBs make the best tanks? Here is why I think so:

1. Veil of blades. The best tanking Ultimate in the entire game. reduces the damage you take by 60%, has a damage over time affect against all enemies in its radius, and also reduces the damage your allies take.

2. siphoning strikes: allows NB tanks to keep themselves sustained for very long amounts of time
3. swallow soul: which increases healing done, as well as other advantages that I will not list(as I don't want to influence you too much) the only thing NB tanks lack is a good fast self heal.

Templars still make for amazing tanks though. Really any class can tank well if one knows what they are doing, It's just the classes all tank... differently.

Shunravi

Cody wrote: »

Nightblades are superior to all. Anyone that does not have at least one Nightblade is a lesser being, and will be sacrificed to Sithis in due time.

ok, serious time:) it depends on what you want to do: no one class can do everything(and no, OP DKs cant do everything either:))

Templars are the best healers and make for great tanks and melee builds, but suck at ranged combat.

Nightblades put out a lot of damage and are great at ganking/burst damage, but have no good self heals of their own, making it hard to have high survivability. NBs can still be good tanks despite this disadvantage. In fact I personally think NBs make the best tanks in the game, and would rather have a NB tank than a DK, Templar, or sorcerer tank. Why do NBs make the best tanks? Here is why I think so:

1. Veil of blades. The best tanking Ultimate in the entire game. reduces the damage you take by 60%, has a damage over time affect against all enemies in its radius, and also reduces the damage your allies take.

2. siphoning strikes: allows NB tanks to keep themselves sustained for very long amounts of time
3. swallow soul: which increases healing done, as well as other advantages that I will not list(as I don't want to influence you too much) the only thing NB tanks lack is a good fast self heal.

Templars still make for amazing tanks though. Really any class can tank well if one knows what they are doing, It's just the classes all tank... differently.

When I tank I prefer funnel health because of ult gain for veil. I also use sap essence in aoe pulls as it easily keeps me and someone else alive. But I completely agree that NB tanks are awesome.

As I also heal, I can say NB healers are great too :P I would rank NB heals very close to templars, but different. Our emergency heal capability is not as strong as bol, but we can keep multiple hot ticks going at once thanks to funnel. And then there's veil. And we can keep 15% damage reduction down with shades for support.

I'm hopeful about how 1.6 will boost NB and Temp heals, as going all spell power will be interesting.


But, yea, each class approaches these roles a bit differently.

danno8

It will be interesting to see how Ultimate dependant tanking will do in U6.

AlexDougherty

At levels 30-40 you should have an idea which one you prefer. Personally I would go with Templar, but that's MY personal choice.

Just go with the one you have the most fun with.

Khivas_Carrick

1) Play what archetype/class you want to rock as, nothing more, nothing less.

2) Nightblades are better DPS but lesser heals, whereas Templars are better healers but lesser DPS. That said, both aren't far ahead or behind each other, so again, pick the one that fits your playstyle best.

3) My bow disagrees with the sentiment that Templars can't do ranged very well. We can do it, just not as good as others, but we keep up.

4) I pulled 1k DPS last night on that Whispy *** in AA, beating out DKs and NBs of both caster and melee types, even a Sorc (I think we had a sorc because I definitely saw a negate). Mind you, I'm a Templar with a 2H, so anything is possible.

5) Everybody so far has said it for me but I'll say it again: Any role you choose to do will work with the class you're doing it with, but it wil be vastly different for each to even minimally different for some, for example as a Templar for 2H I use mostly 2H skills for DPS, varying between Cleave and Vampire's Bane depending on whether or not the enemy can bleed. For a Nightblade, they only need maybe two or even one skill for 2H DPS, since their class skills are built for this sort of thing.

6) It was said as examples that one skill was changing for NB's (Haste), and two for Templar (Backlash and Blinding Flashes), but the Devs have stated multiple times in multiple ways and on multiple stages that every, single, skill in this game is being changed and reworked. Let me repeat that.

Every. Single. Skill.

That's no joke, and that's why this update is being called ESO 2.0 and why it's taking so long. Not just the Champion and Justice Systems, but an Skill Rework. That *** takes A LOT of time to do.

7) That's it. Either you wait until 1.6 drops to make a decision, or pick one now and roll with it. I personally am quite glad I stuck to my decision for Templar, even if it was......difficult at times. I can do all three roles at any given time whenever I want to, so really it's no big deal for me. Plus I've always been fond of the Paladin/Cleric types.

Stumkrav

Khivas_Carrick: Can Nightblade do the same? I mean, doing all three roles at any time whenever they want? Or they need more respecs compared to Templars?

Lynnessa

Someone told me not long ago about a group they were in doing veteran dungeon that was all nightblades. He said it worked great! So I think a NB could do what you describe fairly easily--at high levels.

Nightblade class is best class.

Shunravi

@Stumkrav‌, I can switch my Nightblade spec on the fly annytime I want. No respec necessary. Of course, I can also say that with the majority of builds and specs I have seen across classes. What it really comes down to is what gear and enchants you use. Unless you are building really specific.

@Lynnessa‌, I have done all Nightblade runs all over endgame. They are indeed fun.

Nightblades rule!

^(totally unbiassed opinion :P)

Stumkrav

Thanks to all!

My decision has already been made, I hope this helps to someone else and this post will serve to orient him too.

Khivas_Carrick

Stumkrav wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick: Can Nightblade do the same? I mean, doing all three roles at any time whenever they want? Or they need more respecs compared to Templars?

Like I said, any class at any time can do anything they want.

Azalin76

I am a NB tank and with using swallow soul and leeching strikes I never drop below 90% health when I am doing single target solo, for AOE leeching strikes and sap essence also makes me very sustainable. I am nearly impossible to kill with these combos, for tougher fights where I take more dmg I swap in structured entropy on my bar for even more self heals plus an extra 8% bonus to my health. Sure I may not reach my potential in damage but I love have unlimited resources. All I have to do is swing two quick light attacks in between each sap essence or swallow soul and I never drop below 90% health, stamina, and magicka.

Aeratus

In terms of role versatility, Templars are better than NB.

Templars are better tanks and healers than NB. For trials, this isn't a big deal because most slots in trials are for DPS. For DSA, only half the group will be dps though.

Anyone class can dps. The only difference here is that at the high end, Templars need to go stamina build for high dps, while NB can still be competitive with magicka build.

In terms of soloing, both classes are good, but if you want to solo the big packs in craglorn, you need magicka build for either class.

In fact I personally think NBs make the best tanks in the game, and would rather have a NB tank than a DK, Templar, or sorcerer tank. Why do NBs make the best tanks? Here is why I think so:

The main problem with NB tanks is that they have no self heal. Usually, this isn't a problem, but there are certain situations where you have to tank with no healer. One example is the final boss of vet DSA, where (in the traditional strategy) the tank has to survive solo against the final boss for an extended amount of time. Another example is the bottom of the manticora fight in SO. Since some groups don't have three healers, the secondary tank may need to survive for 50 seconds against the serpent image without a healer healing him.

Lynnessa

Aeratus wrote: »

In terms of role versatility, Templars are better than NB.

Templars are better tanks and healers than NB.

Do you mean for trials and DSA? Because I suspect that which is more versatile is debatable.

Shunravi wrote: »

@Stumkrav‌, I can switch my Nightblade spec on the fly annytime I want. No respec necessary.

No respec necessary? I can switch mine between a healer and a dps, but I have to redo my morphs to really heal properly. Never tried tanking.

Shunravi

Lynnessa wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

@Stumkrav‌, I can switch my Nightblade spec on the fly annytime I want. No respec necessary.

No respec necessary? I can switch mine between a healer and a dps, but I have to redo my morphs to really heal properly.

Indeed. My gear is set up so that it is possible. And my selection of skills is versatile enough to fit the roles, and do it well.

I'm curious, what do you respec?

Lynnessa

Shunravi wrote: »

I'm curious, what do you respec?

I don't change all that much, but there are three important morphs that change based on my role: Swallow Soul/Funnel Health, Twisting Path/Refreshing Path, and Veil of Blades/Bolstering Darkness.

Edit: I also change Rapid Regeneration/Mutagen and Illustrious Healing/Healing Springs. I prefer Rapid Regen and Illustrious Healing when I am not main heals, but I need that extra little push sometimes from Mutagen; and it's okay for me to run out of magicka when I'm dps'ing because I use stamina for damage as well--but it's NOT okay for the main healer to run dry!

Shunravi

Lynnessa wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I'm curious, what do you respec?

I don't change all that much, but there are three important morphs that change based on my role: Swallow Soul/Funnel Health, Twisting Path/Refreshing Path, and Veil of Blades/Bolstering Darkness.

Edit: I also change Rapid Regeneration/Mutagen and Illustrious Healing/Healing Springs. I prefer Rapid Regen and Illustrious Healing when I am not main heals, but I need that extra little push sometimes from Mutagen; and it's okay for me to run out of magicka when I'm dps'ing because I use stamina for damage as well--but it's NOT okay for the main healer to run dry!

That sounds about what I expected

I keep those abilities on funnel health, twisting path, and veil of blades.

My reasoning is that funnel health and refreshing path both gain ultimate faster due to healing. And veil of blades is far and away the better morph imo, and its something worth dropping frequently. As good as the heal synergy may be, I would rather have people synergise with overflowing altar. Especially the tank.

As I'm always off healing with funnel, I dont really have a reason to change mutagen. And I use HS with the current meta sometimes to solo veil in trials.

Lynnessa

Oh yeah, I also change Dark Cloak/Shadowy Disguise, using the latter for healing. Good for a critical Combat Prayer! And the armor/spellpen buff combined with that from Combat Prayer is a nice damage cushion.

Another one is Soul Siphon/Soul Tether.

Shunravi wrote: »

I keep those abilities on funnel health, twisting path, and veil of blades.

My reasoning is that funnel health and refreshing path both gain ultimate faster due to healing. And veil of blades is far and away the better morph imo, and its something worth dropping frequently. As good as the heal synergy may be, I would rather have people synergise with overflowing altar. Especially the tank.

As I'm always off healing with funnel, I dont really have a reason to change mutagen. And I use HS with the current meta sometimes to solo veil in trials.

Sorry, I can't tell if you're using Twisting Path or Refreshing Path? Seems like you're using Refreshing and that was a typo.

I'm not familiar with Overflowing Altar... Undaunted skill morph, I'm guessing?

Actually, when healing I have Soul Siphon as the ultimate on my main bar. It charges extremely fast!

Edit: I'm quite sure that's all of the morphs I change when switching between dps/healer. It has been a while since I main healed (nightblade dps is too much fun!).