Nightblade Tank

Azalin76

I was wondering if anyone could direct me to some builds for tanking as a nightblade, I see a lot of DPS and healing but never any tanking builds. I have heard that we can be good tanks but don't even know where to begin.

Lynx7386

Nightblade tanking builds focus primarily on using skills from the siphoning line (and, obviously, the heavy armor and 1h/shield lines).

For class skills, you'll want the following:

1. Siphoning Strikes (Leeching Strikes Morph)
Leeching Strikes returns 3% of your stamina and magicka and 2% of your maximum health every time you hit a target with a light or heavy attack. Contrary to popular belief, tanks do use light and heavy attacks, they dont just sit there holding block. Get the timing down on your target's attacks, block when he's attacking and throw in a light attack immediately after the block.

2. Drain Power (Sap Essence Morph)
Sap Essence Deals area damage to enemies around you, which can be useful for establishing initial aggro on them (getting them to attack you as you charge in, rather than attacking your allies). It also boosts your weapon damage, though that's not overly important for a tank. Most importantly, it heals you and nearby allies for each enemy damaged by the effect, so it can help keep you alive when dealing with large amounts of enemies.

3. Strife (Swallow Soul Morph)
Swallow soul is a heal over time for yourself, and a bit of damage on one target. It also boosts all healing you take while the ability is slotted - that includes healing from itself, sap essence, leeching strikes, as well as all heals you receive from other players. This can be combined with some set bonuses to boost the healing you receive by as much as 20-25%, which your healers will thank you for.


On top of those, you'll obviously want to run both taunts (the ranged magicka based taunt from undaunted, Inner fire/Inner Beast, and 1h/shield's melee stamina based taunt puncture/pierce armor. Early on most tanks see ransack as a better morph, since it boosts your own armor (and thus your survivability), but pierce armor will cause your entire group to deal more damage and enemies will die more quickly because of it. This will be especially important come update 1.6 where NPC enemies will have more armor and spell resistance than they do now.

You can run either immovable or circle of protection as your armor boost. Circle will be better against any undead/daedra if you're fighting those, but it doesnt provide the CC immunity that immovable does. It lasts longer than immovable for the cost, however.

Sord

ESO just showed this nightblade tank off on their Battlemasters Corner

Bastion of Night

At the end you can read others comments and suggestions.

Azalin76

Thank you for the info, I would assume that I need to run a magicka base on my armor for enchants and stats? I am an Imperial so I can easily make up some stamina with my passive.

eliisra

Sord wrote: »

ESO just showed this nightblade tank off on their Battlemasters Corner

Bastion of Night

In all fairness, If you want to be a scrub in both PvP and PvE, go ahead and copy any build from The Battlemasters Corner.

I would suggest reading Lynx7386 advises above instead, it covers all the crucial stuff.

Other situational skills to consider when NB tanking:
Elude (medium armor skill for extra dodge)
Harness Magicka
Defensive Posture
Caltroops (great way to get aggro on big packs of enemies)
Structured Entropy (Mage's guild Entropy morph for 8% more hp if the boss is really nasty)

DeLindsay

1) Siphoning Attacks is far and wide a superior morph to Leeching Strikes. NB Tanks have serious Magicka issues and almost non-existent Stamina issues.

2) Sap Essence is indeed our go-to for AOE Tanking.

3) Funnel Health is the better morph -IF- you plan to do anything besides Tank on that NB.

Outside of those, pick up Bone Shield > Spiked Bone Shield for AOE Tanking and Caltrops > Razor Caltrops if you PvP at all. We have zero AOE CC, so if you want to get some grab Fire Rune > Volcanic Rune in Mage's Guild. I also use either Immovable > Unstoppable -OR- Circle of Protection > Ring of Preservation as my utility slot, even sometimes Annulment > Harness Magicka. In 1H/Shield, Low Slash > Deep Slash is great for the damage debuff and it does stack with our Shades' 15% reduction. You are not required to be the player who uses Shades to get the reduction.

One thing to understand is that Dodge chance does NOT stack. So trying to build up an Elude/Hist Bark set looking for huge Dodge numbers is a waste of time. It's been thoroughly tested (since ZoS refuses to be transparent about game stats/mechanics) and found that differing Dodge mechanics don't actually stack. As for gear, there's different setups for different people but the common ones are (at end game):

5pc Footman (for the 12% Block mitigation)
5pc Whitestrake's Retribution (for the 1008 Shield at VR14 Legendary)
2pc Monster Helm/Shoulder (Blood Spawn, Engine Guardian, Scourge Harvester)

Prior to VR13 (Footman is VR13/14) Whitestrake's is still relevant. Other popular sets are Histbark, Unassailable (includes Jewelry), Undaunted Bastion, Ebon Armory, and Immortal Warrior. Anything really can be "Tank" gear as long as you factor in a few things. You should be over the Spell Resistance and Armor soft cap with no buffs/abilities and somewhat higher Health than your other party members. For VR14 that'd be (buffed) ~3200 Health vs 26-2800 non-Tanks. Stamina is less of a priority for NB's as we overflow with it due to passives, but I still eat Tri-food when I tank. You Trait the same as Healer/DPS in that the main pcs are Infused (Helm/Chest/Legs/Shield) and the off-pcs are based on your Role. For Tanking I use Nirnhoned or Reinforced with Defending on the 1H.

For Glyphs the only ones of major concern after you get your Health/Magicka setup the way you want are the Jewelry and the Weapon. I personally use Alchemist on Jewelry for the 5 second faster Potion CD, but it means eating potions like they're candy. For the 1H, most use Shielding, which gives you an up to 5 second personal shield of 208 (VR10-14 Legendary) on an 8 second ICD.

Azalin76

Do most NB tanks run double sword and board or one sword and board and something else like a resto staff? Was thinking double sword and board for single target and AOE or does drain power get used for single target as well?

DeLindsay

Azalin76 wrote: »

Do most NB tanks run double sword and board or one sword and board and something else like a resto staff? Was thinking double sword and board for single target and AOE or does drain power get used for single target as well?

Both and situation dependent. I've seen other NB's run 1H/Shield + DW to great effect although I personally use 1H/Shield on both most of the time because I can block-cast Sap and I use Spiked Bone Shield for added AOE damage. My AOE bar is pretty much this:

Siphoning Attacks
Lotus Fan (or Refreshing Path, I don't have Caltrops yet)
Sap Essence
Spiked Bone Shield
(Utility) Ring of Preservation/Unstoppable
(Ultimate) Veil of Blades

Drain Power > Sap Essence is superior on multiple targets but you can use it ST for a small oh-sheet button (very small). If you have Funnel Health on your ST bar and Absorb Magicka while fighting a Boss that hits you with spells you can put both up then swap to AOE bar and block-Sap until you need to reapply either FH or AM in a pinch but it won't allow you to solo a boss if everyone else dies. In full legendary Tank gear at VR14 Funnel Health heals for about 70/2 sec and Sap Essence heals for about 110 on a single enemy (both numbers with SA on). Animation CD is 1.3 seconds so you can get off a Sap every 1.3 seconds (without having Focused Attacks up, which is going away in 1.6 anyway). Even with a decent Health Regen (non-Vampire) and having FH up plus spamming Sap while blocking you're still only healing yourself for ~285/2 seconds, not including Health pot or Absorb Magicka heal.

Yusuf

1. Equip 7 pieces of Medium Armor (5 of them Hist Bark)
2. Enchant all your jewelry with Spellresistance
3. Have around 3k Health
4. Cast Double Take and Elude every 20 seconds
5. Have fun

DeLindsay

Yusuf wrote: »

1. Equip 7 pieces of Medium Armor (5 of them Hist Bark)
2. Enchant all your jewelry with Spellresistance
3. Have around 3k Health
4. Cast Double Take and Elude every 20 seconds
5. Have fun

Except it's been proven multiple times by players that Dodge does not stack so Hist Bark + Elude is useless. The highest any of the tests could get the Dodge chance to (as of December 2014 ) was just over 18%, no matter how many Dodge buffs they had going. And personally I'll take Shades (Shadow Image) over Double Take any day. ZoS says it's working, but all the player's testing says it isn't. You can read some of this here, but that's not the only thread that people have shown their results.

aco5712

Like said above, leeching strikes is useless morph. Siphon attacks is key and you seriously cant tank without it. Its just too good. I play my nightblae tank as someone who takes very little damage. I do this by running the shade (teleport is best), low slash -> morphed to the one that gives ulti gen. This will give you 30% damage reduction. Ontop of that i run, defensive stance from sword and board (8% block mitigation) and then the footman set (another 12% block mitigation). All this mitigation helps alot. Not to mention you have veil aswell. When you have that up, its almost impossible to take take. I run fire res on my necklace aswell since fire is very common in this game and dungeons. It really helps the healer in sustaining their magicka. Play smart and stay out of the red. Set your shade teleport away from the boss so you can use it for a quick escape if he is about to do a very powerful aoe near you. I have kited the sipder daedra boss in fungal like this with her aoe. NB tanking is very easy.

Lynx7386

I do this by running the shade (teleport is best), low slash -> morphed to the one that gives ulti gen. This will give you 30% damage reduction.

Pretty sure I read something not too long ago stating that the damage debuff from abilities like this no longer stacks, the max damage reduction you can apply to a target now is 15%.

DeLindsay

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I do this by running the shade (teleport is best), low slash -> morphed to the one that gives ulti gen. This will give you 30% damage reduction.

Pretty sure I read something not too long ago stating that the damage debuff from abilities like this no longer stacks, the max damage reduction you can apply to a target now is 15%.

I also thought the same thing a while ago, but have several Guild mates that have tested it and confirmed that the 15% shades + 15% Deep Slash do stack for 30% reduction.

Stannum

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1429075/#Comment_1429075

Azalin76

I am going to try 5 heavy and 2 light using 5 whitestrake and 4 seducer, enchant everything with magicka and use the atronoch for the mana regen. Does that sound like it would work?

Azalin76

I have been toying around with ideas and I was wondering about something that was said earlier about dodge not stacking. What about Histbark dodge % and Mirage Miss% do they stack? That would give an 18% chance to doge and a 15% chance to miss. Although dodge and miss are on different stacks does that up our chances to 33% to not be hit?

Lynx7386

Miss and dodge do stack, but current testing shows mirage to only give about 10% miss chance, rather than the stated 15% (and zenimax wont confirm whether this is a bug or not). It also does not stack up to 33%, because dodge and miss are not additive. Each attack against you will roll seperately for each defense condition.

DeLindsay

Correct, but what player's have tested ad nauseam is Dodge + Dodge + Dodge and found that even though ZoS says they stack they in fact do not. However, players have found that the damage reduction via Low Slash + Shades does stack, even if it doesn't go all the way to exactly 30%. That and considering Low Slash is not a direct damage reduction like Shades but a reduction to power thus reducing the amount of damage the enemy is capable of doing. I'd wager it's something more like a 5% actual damage reduction per hit.

So Dodge + Miss is good, Damage reduction + Damage reduction is good, Dodge + Dodge is bad.

Septimus_Magna

I have a question about the 12% extra block migration, how much does it actually reduce the attack damage? If I normally get hit for 100 damage while blocking, does it take away 12% leaving 100*(100%-12%) = 88 damage? And does it increase or decrease the stamina cost of blocking an attack because of the increased block migration?

I might use the Footman's Fortune set to pvp with my S&B sorc because I want to improve my survivability while blocking.

DeLindsay

In ESO the Hard Cap for mitigation is 50%. This is split up between Spell Resistance/Armor (each cap at 50%) and Block absorption (also caps at 50%). What this means is there will be times when you actually take zero damage, but generally you still take some. The 12% block for Footman does absorb 12% more damage until you hit 50% which only DK/Templar can hit with Footman. NB/Sorc can hit it using Footman + Ward of Cyrodiil since it also has 12% Block mitigation, it's a Medium set. Cost of Block has nothing to do with the Footman 5pc bonus.

Now understand when I say you reach the 50% hard cap for Block mitigation you will actually see it as 100% adding it up on your character, but that means you are maxed for half of the Hard Cap pool, the other half being Spell Resistance/Armor. It's done this way so you can't really have permanent no damage taken as it's impossible to maintain permanent 50% hard cap for Spell Resistance/Armor AND Block. This is ofc until the Champion System comes out, and has been out long enough for players to complete it if what Paul Sage said is correct that the only way to reach Hard cap is to have literally every single point in the Champion System in regards to the stat you want to cap, AND have 7/7 of that Armor type equipped (8/8 for Heavy since Shield adds Armor).

To further explain the Block mitigation half of the damage reduction pie. If you had exactly 100% Block mitigation and were standing there naked (no Armor value and no Spell Resistance) you would absorb exactly 50% of the incoming damage until you ran out of Stamina. This is also why Players have such high ability to reduce another Player's Spell Resistance/Armor via SPen/ArPen. It helps to even the playing field against players that just slap on massive amounts of mitigation and turtle all the time. Ofc, ZoS didn't account for Shielding in PvP, which is a whole other Jenny Jones show

noobemata

my nb is sword and board around 2k health no points in magika the rest go into stamina above 2k

All medium armor
skills :
Elude, inner fire, evasion, ring of preservation & defensive posture

have fun

Azalin76

Do you mean Mirage and Evasion? Elude and Evasion are the same skill.

Stannum

noobemata wrote: »

around 2k health ...
All medium armor

Will be oneshoted even by some vet dng bosses. (final boss in elden hollow definitely will)

Azalin76

Is it best to put all points in to health with being a tank? What is the average health to shoot for with being a tank? I am an imperial and I put about 20 points in to health, was thinking maybe I should put more.

DeLindsay

Azalin76 wrote: »

Is it best to put all points in to health with being a tank? What is the average health to shoot for with being a tank? I am an imperial and I put about 20 points in to health, was thinking maybe I should put more.

Your question is incomplete without us knowing what Level your NB Tank is. At VR14 you should have ~3200 Health while Tanking. As a NB Tank specifically you will NEED a good amount of Magicka but you can almost completely disregard Stamina, as we almost never run out of it. I still eat Tri-food when I tank for the added 385 Stamina but I have zero points into Stamina, no Glyphs for Stamina and no Glyphs for Block/Bash and even if I don't use SA (Siphoning Attacks) which I often don't in ST Tanking, I still don't resource burn Stamina. I also almost exclusively use Tri-pots and have 2/3 Jewelry Glyphed with Alchemy CD (5 sec each) for 20s pots, the 3rd is Fire since I'm a Vampire. And yes, Vampires CAN Tank Vet CoA/CoH/BC/(EH final Boss) without issues if careful.

My Attribute spread at VR14 is 30/32/0 as I also Heal and DPS (Magicka based). Glyphs take care of the rest to get me to 2010/2170 Magicka (ST/AOE bar) with food and I have 3218/3264 Health (ST/AOE bar) plus 1647 Stamina. This is with the Scourge Harvester Monster 2pc. Once I finally get both pcs of the Blood Spawn I will have to tweak stats a little as I'll lose the double + Health.

Sub Level 50 I'd say shoot for 200-300 Health more than the average DPS/Healer at your level and you should be fine. If you're worried about not putting anything into Stamina, run with SA all the time and it will NEVER be an issue, but Magicka still will unfortunately. Magicka issues and lack of AOE CC are the downsides to NB Tanking but we still make great Tanks.

Azalin76

Thank you for the info DeLindsay, you have been a great help, you had stated earlier what your AOE bar looks like I am wondering what you ST bar looks like. I know most tanks have pierce armor on their ST bar and then use Inner Beast on their 2nd bar, how do those fall on your bars?

Stannum

DeLindsay wrote: »

And yes, Vampires CAN Tank Vet CoA/CoH/BC/(EH final Boss) without issues if careful.

EH? Final boss hits vampires for 2.8-3.6k through block without counting firepools. So every second-third hit is oneshot. When I tank EH I have to change to ranged DPS on final boss and don't use taunt otherways we wiped.

DeLindsay

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

And yes, Vampires CAN Tank Vet CoA/CoH/BC/(EH final Boss) without issues if careful.

EH? Final boss hits vampires for 2.8-3.6k through block without counting firepools. So every second-third hit is oneshot. When I tank EH I have to change to ranged DPS on final boss and don't use taunt otherways we wiped.

No it doesn't (see below). With my Fire Glyph I get hit for ~1500 whether I'm Tanking/Healing or DPS on that fight (have cleared it with speed run all 3 Roles, as a Vampire). I certainly have to gtfo of fire asap or I WILL die but it's perfectly doable. And I tank him as normal on the left ledge moving along it's length to avoid fire. I've even been healed by a Vampire NB with a Vampire DK DPS in the group (3 Vamps) with no deaths.

Azalin76 wrote: »

Thank you for the info DeLindsay, you have been a great help, you had stated earlier what your AOE bar looks like I am wondering what you ST bar looks like. I know most tanks have pierce armor on their ST bar and then use Inner Beast on their 2nd bar, how do those fall on your bars?

My normal ST bar is:

• Ransack (over Pierce Armor, at least until ZoS adds actual armor/spell resistance to NPCs).
• Inner Beast (I swap this out as needed with Funnel Health).
• Absorb Magicka (or Harness Magicka, for last boss in Vet BC/EH).
• Deep Slash (for the dmg reduction).
• Shadow Image (also for the dmg reduction & teleport out of void zones).

I swap to AOE bar to add Spiked Bones Shield/Ring of Preservation/Unstoppable as needed.

EDIT: @dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO I think I might now the mechanic you're talking about where the boss hits for ~3K. Are you talking about when he randomly walks over to a player (non-Tank) to bite them then returns to the Tank? If so there's a fix but your Tank has to be smart. As soon as the boss turns to walk away, the Tank has to Taunt using Inner Beast and the boss will immediately return to the Tank without hitting that player. He doesn't do this TO the Tank, only to random players every so often. It's a tough bit of timing and you won't always get every one but when I'm Tanking him I pay special attention to that.

Mauz

DeLindsay wrote: »

Correct, but what player's have tested ad nauseam is Dodge + Dodge + Dodge and found that even though ZoS says they stack they in fact do not.

If you use hrist bark it stacks if you release the blockbutton cast your medium armor ability and again start blocking. If you only recast while continue to block it das not stack anymore. That was at least the result wenn I tested it with 1.5.

GreyRanger

A guildie told me in chat that one of his favorite things to do as a NB tank is taunt and then drop into Dark Cloak. He claims the boss will just stand there for 2.5 sec and he gets a break to head if needs be. I have never seen this, but does it really work?

DeLindsay

GreyRanger wrote: »

A guildie told me in chat that one of his favorite things to do as a NB tank is taunt and then drop into Dark Cloak. He claims the boss will just stand there for 2.5 sec and he gets a break to head if needs be. I have never seen this, but does it really work?

Not any more.