Oh, hey look: PvP NPCs can still see through cloak, invis potions, AND rocks and trees, Zenimax ...

Grim13

You should seriously consider new career paths because you are that bad at this one.

phreatophile

Nothing to see here.
Stealth and especially cloak haven't ever worked properly Cyrodil. Must not be something they care about.

Grim13

Agreed.

Anyone want to start a "fix cloak" kickstarter?

I'm seriously starting to think crowd funding may be he only solution here...

Nazon_Katts

Dunno, I'm not overly impressed with what they did with the money that was thrown at them, so I'm not entirely sure throwing more will do any good. Maybe if it were just coins?

Grim13

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Dunno, I'm not overly impressed with what they did with the money that was thrown at them, so I'm not entirely sure throwing more will do any good. Maybe if it were just coins?

Hmmm, I was thinking the kickstarter would fund hiring an external team to look at the problem... but I'm starting to like your coins idea more... I can flick a coin pretty hard!

Cody

Apparantly, the NPC PvP guards of cyrodiil are always equiped with thermal vision goggles. These goggles(obtained via deals with Molag bal) allow the PvP NPC guards to see the heat siginatures off of Players, for miles on end. They also come equiped with Daedric sniper rifles that shoot magic, enabling them to have incredibaly long range: sometimes even longer than the snipe skill itself.

Merlin13KAGL

phreatophile wrote: »

Nothing to see here.
Stealth and especially cloak haven't ever worked properly Cyrodil. Must not be something they care about.

@phreatophile‌ , I (don't) see what you did there.

Cody wrote: »

Apparantly, the NPC PvP guards of cyrodiil are always equiped with thermal vision goggles. These goggles(obtained via deals with Molag bal) allow the PvP NPC guards to see the heat siginatures off of Players, for miles on end. They also come equiped with Daedric sniper rifles that shoot magic, enabling them to have incredibaly long range: sometimes even longer than the snipe skill itself.

@Cody , Imperial flour is all it's ever taken to defeat invisibility.

Like seeing the darkness for the light that's around it, it makes an outline of something that's not there... (Why Chameleon was always preferred.)

The uncanny ability to know exactly where to look is a bit much though.

It's right up there with their ability to perfectly place Negate dead center on you or their ability to somehow fire of a shot/spell while back is turned and being knocked down.

Don't forget the throwing arm for oil that most Major League Baseball players would kill to have...

DDuke

Cody wrote: »

Apparantly, the NPC PvP guards of cyrodiil are always equiped with thermal vision goggles. These goggles(obtained via deals with Molag bal) allow the PvP NPC guards to see the heat siginatures off of Players, for miles on end. They also come equiped with Daedric sniper rifles that shoot magic, enabling them to have incredibaly long range: sometimes even longer than the snipe skill itself.

Yes, and then they leave you bugged "in combat" and unable to restealth minutes after running out of their Daedric sniper rifle range...

I really don't understand the design here either.
NPCs spotting you instantly, it's got to be intentional, right?
What is the aim of this design I wonder, and why not just give them a normal detection radius?

Let's see if this works...
*throws coins @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom & @ZOS_KaiSchober*

driosketch

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Apparantly, the NPC PvP guards of cyrodiil are always equiped with thermal vision goggles. These goggles(obtained via deals with Molag bal) allow the PvP NPC guards to see the heat siginatures off of Players, for miles on end. They also come equiped with Daedric sniper rifles that shoot magic, enabling them to have incredibaly long range: sometimes even longer than the snipe skill itself.

Yes, and then they leave you bugged "in combat" and unable to restealth minutes after running out of their Daedric sniper rifle range...

I really don't understand the design here either.
NPCs spotting you instantly, it's got to be intentional, right?
What is the aim of this design I wonder, and why not just give them a normal detection radius?

Let's see if this works...
*throws coins @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom & @ZOS_KaiSchober*

NPC PvP Guards seeing you stealthed is by design in that they are supposed to serve as a barrier to keep players from soloing keeps or getting past locked scroll gates. (They even used them as a counter when players were able to discover enemy way shrines in the safe areas by placing them around said way shrines.) Of course most of their projectiles are reflectable.

Cody

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Apparantly, the NPC PvP guards of cyrodiil are always equiped with thermal vision goggles. These goggles(obtained via deals with Molag bal) allow the PvP NPC guards to see the heat siginatures off of Players, for miles on end. They also come equiped with Daedric sniper rifles that shoot magic, enabling them to have incredibaly long range: sometimes even longer than the snipe skill itself.

Yes, and then they leave you bugged "in combat" and unable to restealth minutes after running out of their Daedric sniper rifle range...

I really don't understand the design here either.
NPCs spotting you instantly, it's got to be intentional, right?
What is the aim of this design I wonder, and why not just give them a normal detection radius?

Let's see if this works...
*throws coins @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom & @ZOS_KaiSchober*

the bugged in combat is a result of tracing devices attacked to you on damage dealt by a PvP NPC guard. These tracking devices are microchips inserted into your body, and they remain in your characters body for 10+ minutes.

lol. Joking about it is the only way I can keep from screaming out in utter frustration

Cody

driosketch wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Apparantly, the NPC PvP guards of cyrodiil are always equiped with thermal vision goggles. These goggles(obtained via deals with Molag bal) allow the PvP NPC guards to see the heat siginatures off of Players, for miles on end. They also come equiped with Daedric sniper rifles that shoot magic, enabling them to have incredibaly long range: sometimes even longer than the snipe skill itself.

Yes, and then they leave you bugged "in combat" and unable to restealth minutes after running out of their Daedric sniper rifle range...

I really don't understand the design here either.
NPCs spotting you instantly, it's got to be intentional, right?
What is the aim of this design I wonder, and why not just give them a normal detection radius?

Let's see if this works...
*throws coins @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom & @ZOS_KaiSchober*

Of course most of their projectiles are reflectable.

If only we were all DKs.

im sorry, but I just have to call people out for statements like this.

driosketch

Cody wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Apparantly, the NPC PvP guards of cyrodiil are always equiped with thermal vision goggles. These goggles(obtained via deals with Molag bal) allow the PvP NPC guards to see the heat siginatures off of Players, for miles on end. They also come equiped with Daedric sniper rifles that shoot magic, enabling them to have incredibaly long range: sometimes even longer than the snipe skill itself.

Yes, and then they leave you bugged "in combat" and unable to restealth minutes after running out of their Daedric sniper rifle range...

I really don't understand the design here either.
NPCs spotting you instantly, it's got to be intentional, right?
What is the aim of this design I wonder, and why not just give them a normal detection radius?

Let's see if this works...
*throws coins @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom & @ZOS_KaiSchober*

Of course most of their projectiles are reflectable.

If only we were all DKs.

im sorry, but I just have to call people out for statements like this.

It was a sarcastic statement.

Of course we aren't all DKs, and it's NBs that suffer most from this.

DDuke

driosketch wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Apparantly, the NPC PvP guards of cyrodiil are always equiped with thermal vision goggles. These goggles(obtained via deals with Molag bal) allow the PvP NPC guards to see the heat siginatures off of Players, for miles on end. They also come equiped with Daedric sniper rifles that shoot magic, enabling them to have incredibaly long range: sometimes even longer than the snipe skill itself.

Yes, and then they leave you bugged "in combat" and unable to restealth minutes after running out of their Daedric sniper rifle range...

I really don't understand the design here either.
NPCs spotting you instantly, it's got to be intentional, right?
What is the aim of this design I wonder, and why not just give them a normal detection radius?

Let's see if this works...
*throws coins @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom & @ZOS_KaiSchober*

NPC PvP Guards seeing you stealthed is by design in that they are supposed to serve as a barrier to keep players from soloing keeps or getting past locked scroll gates. (They even used them as a counter when players were able to discover enemy way shrines in the safe areas by placing them around said way shrines.) Of course most of their projectiles are reflectable.

But when you start "soloing" a keep, you would have to attack a flag NPC atleast.

At this point, the other NPCs should detect you, essentially making "soloing" impossible (though not on resources, which is very possible at the moment despite these so called countermeasures).

Basicly what I'm saying is, that immediate 50m stealth detection of NPCs doesn't really accomplish anything (beyond frustrating players).

As for getting past locked scroll gates, I don't think that had anything to do with stealthing (and wasn't it fixed a while ago?)

Yusuf

i remember fighting a few players near a keep-gate and tactically using cloak...... these guys always exposed me and ruined the fight
As if i would turn invisible and walk in through the front-gate, c'mon!

Bouvin

phreatophile wrote: »

Nothing to see here.
Stealth and especially cloak haven't ever worked properly Cyrodil. Must not be something they care about.

They said in a NB Fix post, back in what May, they'd be fixing Cloak.

Of course.. still not fixed, and they seem to be skirting the issue. They probably realize they can't fix it at this point so they are just ignoring the issue and hoping we forget about it.

In other news, PvP has pretty much become a DK Banner, Snipe, Batswarm, Reflective Scales fest.

On Thornblade last night I swear there was a whole red raid of DKs just running around spamming Snipe and Reflective scales.

Edit: Just to note. I have nothing against people rolling DKs. It's ZOS bad design that make the class to overpowered compared to other classes.

Grim13

You know, now that I think about it, with ZOS having all rolled DKs..., we're likely to be pelted by all the coins tossed at them when they're reflected back... !

driosketch

DDuke wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Apparantly, the NPC PvP guards of cyrodiil are always equiped with thermal vision goggles. These goggles(obtained via deals with Molag bal) allow the PvP NPC guards to see the heat siginatures off of Players, for miles on end. They also come equiped with Daedric sniper rifles that shoot magic, enabling them to have incredibaly long range: sometimes even longer than the snipe skill itself.

Yes, and then they leave you bugged "in combat" and unable to restealth minutes after running out of their Daedric sniper rifle range...

I really don't understand the design here either.
NPCs spotting you instantly, it's got to be intentional, right?
What is the aim of this design I wonder, and why not just give them a normal detection radius?

Let's see if this works...
*throws coins @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom & @ZOS_KaiSchober*

NPC PvP Guards seeing you stealthed is by design in that they are supposed to serve as a barrier to keep players from soloing keeps or getting past locked scroll gates. (They even used them as a counter when players were able to discover enemy way shrines in the safe areas by placing them around said way shrines.) Of course most of their projectiles are reflectable.

But when you start "soloing" a keep, you would have to attack a flag NPC atleast.

At this point, the other NPCs should detect you, essentially making "soloing" impossible (though not on resources, which is very possible at the moment despite these so called countermeasures).

Basicly what I'm saying is, that immediate 50m stealth detection of NPCs doesn't really accomplish anything (beyond frustrating players).

As for getting past locked scroll gates, I don't think that had anything to do with stealthing (and wasn't it fixed a while ago?)

Agree on the frustrating part.

I remember when the NPC guards were added to those gates, during Beta I think, to counter things like chain pulling players up over the walls. And I remember how annoying they were on a dead server when all I wanted was a sky shard from the already open gate. Basically, if you could get close, you could rush past them before they started attacking. The long range auto detections prevented that.

They've added a new barrier since, but the NPCs have always been meant to roadblock players. That's why they were given negate, made immune to siege weapons, more of them added, archers added, raised to V5, spawn rates increased, ect. The auto detection is just another thing meant to help in the defense of these points by giving away enemy positions. In theory, in practice they pretty much just hamper capturing in the non-vet campaign.

DDuke

driosketch wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Apparantly, the NPC PvP guards of cyrodiil are always equiped with thermal vision goggles. These goggles(obtained via deals with Molag bal) allow the PvP NPC guards to see the heat siginatures off of Players, for miles on end. They also come equiped with Daedric sniper rifles that shoot magic, enabling them to have incredibaly long range: sometimes even longer than the snipe skill itself.

Yes, and then they leave you bugged "in combat" and unable to restealth minutes after running out of their Daedric sniper rifle range...

I really don't understand the design here either.
NPCs spotting you instantly, it's got to be intentional, right?
What is the aim of this design I wonder, and why not just give them a normal detection radius?

Let's see if this works...
*throws coins @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom & @ZOS_KaiSchober*

NPC PvP Guards seeing you stealthed is by design in that they are supposed to serve as a barrier to keep players from soloing keeps or getting past locked scroll gates. (They even used them as a counter when players were able to discover enemy way shrines in the safe areas by placing them around said way shrines.) Of course most of their projectiles are reflectable.

But when you start "soloing" a keep, you would have to attack a flag NPC atleast.

At this point, the other NPCs should detect you, essentially making "soloing" impossible (though not on resources, which is very possible at the moment despite these so called countermeasures).

Basicly what I'm saying is, that immediate 50m stealth detection of NPCs doesn't really accomplish anything (beyond frustrating players).

As for getting past locked scroll gates, I don't think that had anything to do with stealthing (and wasn't it fixed a while ago?)

Agree on the frustrating part.

I remember when the NPC guards were added to those gates, during Beta I think, to counter things like chain pulling players up over the walls. And I remember how annoying they were on a dead server when all I wanted was a sky shard from the already open gate. Basically, if you could get close, you could rush past them before they started attacking. The long range auto detections prevented that.

They've added a new barrier since, but the NPCs have always been meant to roadblock players. That's why they were given negate, made immune to siege weapons, more of them added, archers added, raised to V5, spawn rates increased, ect. The auto detection is just another thing meant to help in the defense of these points by giving away enemy positions. In theory, in practice they pretty much just hamper capturing in the non-vet campaign.

Yeah, it doesn't really prevent people from going past them, only frustrates them.

Also, to get past them you need to break down the gate they are guarding (or in case of a resource, you need to kill the flag NPCs to capture it).
I still don't see why this automatic 50m detection is required, if I wanted to get to other side of a gate I'd just spam heals (or better: scales) to get past those NPCs, and why give this detection range to resource/keep NPCs as well? Makes no sense to me

deepseamk20b14_ESO

This has always bothered me. I feel like I'm in combat for ever as well after I've broken line of sight with them.