Should stamina AoE Attacks be blockable?

SRIBES

I think stamina builds are considered "weaker" mainly for this reason, the fact some stamina sets are weaker than magika ones, and stamina can be harder to sustain than magika since you use stamina to block/dodge/CC break and so on. So I ask should they be blockable?

danno8

Either all AoE (magicka and stamina) are blockable, or all are not. I don't care which one tbh, I just think consistency is important.

Exceptions should be explicitly stated in tooltips.

Spangla

No

omg - I didnt know they were - this is shocking. Impulse = weapon skill non blockable vs ww = weapon skill is blockable.

lol wtf

GreyBrow

Yes

AsweetRoll wrote: »

I think stamina builds are considered "weaker" mainly for this reason, the fact some stamina sets are weaker than magika ones, and stamina can be harder to sustain than magika since you use stamina to block/dodge/CC break and so on. So I ask should they be blockable?

LOLOL

Yeah.. you're swinging your sword in an arc, and I raise my shield to block and it still hits me? If that were the case, it would be very very very very very very stupid.

If you're blocking, and someone swings a sword at you, you should block it, regardless of AoE or no.

Ashanne

No

GreyBrow wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

I think stamina builds are considered "weaker" mainly for this reason, the fact some stamina sets are weaker than magika ones, and stamina can be harder to sustain than magika since you use stamina to block/dodge/CC break and so on. So I ask should they be blockable?

LOLOL

Yeah.. you're swinging your sword in an arc, and I raise my shield to block and it still hits me? If that were the case, it would be very very very very very very stupid.

If you're blocking, and someone swings a sword at you, you should block it, regardless of AoE or no.

LOLOLOL

so to continue your logic in this completely realistic* game..if I can block your light/heavy elemental magic damage I should be able to block your impulse too..am I thinking like you now?

anything that can hit your torso should be blockable...just a thought

* realistic as in :
- 360 degree block
- sticks/bows/swords blocking as much as shields
- there are so more things to list here but I think we all know them

guybrushtb16_ESO

No

GreyBrow wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

I think stamina builds are considered "weaker" mainly for this reason, the fact some stamina sets are weaker than magika ones, and stamina can be harder to sustain than magika since you use stamina to block/dodge/CC break and so on. So I ask should they be blockable?

LOLOL

Yeah.. you're swinging your sword in an arc, and I raise my shield to block and it still hits me? If that were the case, it would be very very very very very very stupid.

If you're blocking, and someone swings a sword at you, you should block it, regardless of AoE or no.

Ah, you didn't get the point it seems. This is not a "realism" thing at all, it's about balancing gamce mechanics. If magicka aoes can't be blocked, there is no reason stamina ones should be blockable or vice versa. Having it different is not only another weird balance issue, it's also another quirky and awkward thing to have in the game, because it's completely unintuitive and never is explained at all.

I don't really care which way they go with this, but it really should be consistent. Make it either "aoes are not blockable" and state it somewhere, or make everything blockable the same.

Rune_Relic

This is why I proposed shield rating of varying types.
Type1) Weapon resist 80% + Spell resists 20% = 100%
Type2) Weapon resist 60% + Spell resists 40% = 100%
Type3) Weapon resist 40% + Spell resists 60% = 100%
Type4) Weapon resist 20% + Spell resists 80% = 100%

But that implies armour should also come in different flavours to suit.

SRIBES

No

GreyBrow wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

I think stamina builds are considered "weaker" mainly for this reason, the fact some stamina sets are weaker than magika ones, and stamina can be harder to sustain than magika since you use stamina to block/dodge/CC break and so on. So I ask should they be blockable?

LOLOL

Yeah.. you're swinging your sword in an arc, and I raise my shield to block and it still hits me? If that were the case, it would be very very very very very very stupid.

If you're blocking, and someone swings a sword at you, you should block it, regardless of AoE or no.

If you haven't noticed this is a game set in a fictional world, realism is not exactly what it is aiming for considering that there are elvs and magic. It's balance, stamina AoE should be at least comparable to magika AoE.

Ashanne

No

We need over 4k of views/10 pages of comments(--> according to this "event" http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/141706/reflective-scales-needs-nerf#latest) for this issue to be in ZOS eye..

so all dw/2h unite., our voice needs to be louder

SRIBES

No

Ashanne wrote: »

We need over 4k of views/10 pages of comments(--> according to this "event" http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/141706/reflective-scales-needs-nerf#latest) for this issue to be in ZOS eye..

so all dw/2h unite., our voice needs to be louder

Yess

Ashanne

No

I knew we are a rare breed (melee stam builds) ...but but.....?

ZOS, special people need attention too

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

No

GreyBrow wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

I think stamina builds are considered "weaker" mainly for this reason, the fact some stamina sets are weaker than magika ones, and stamina can be harder to sustain than magika since you use stamina to block/dodge/CC break and so on. So I ask should they be blockable?

LOLOL

Yeah.. you're swinging your sword in an arc, and I raise my shield to block and it still hits me? If that were the case, it would be very very very very very very stupid.

If you're blocking, and someone swings a sword at you, you should block it, regardless of AoE or no.

Guess what - if we speak about realistic approach than u are really not a prince - u are just frog.

Cody

stamina AOEs cna be blocked... magicka ones cant.

its an inconsistency problem. ZOS has to choose one or the other

OrphanHelgen

Ashanne wrote: »

I knew we are a rare breed (melee stam builds) ...but but.....?

ZOS, special people need attention too

I join this rare breed group!

demonlkojipub19_ESO

No

darn I thot that said unblockable in the title lol.

my real vote is yes, they should be blockable and the magicka based abilities that are currently not blockable should become blockable. There shouldn't be some player skills blockable and some aren't. if so, guess what skills people will flock to? All or none.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

No

The fundamental issues that make up the stamina/magicka disparity are still in place.

This is definitely one of them. AoE is AoE.

Another issue that is similar is the range/melee disparity of heavy attacks. I can heavy attack with a staff as much as I like while someone is blocking and drain their stamina. But if I heavy attack with a melee weapon I get stunned?

I think they are having a "realism" vs gameplay crisis. Even in this very thread people are trying to argue "logically" about blocking weapon AoE - in a fantasy game. Come on.


Gameplay > "Realism"

This is the kind of thing ZOS should be focused on fixing instead of foolishly trying to sneak the warlock rings out of the game.

Ashanne

No

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Ashanne wrote: »

I knew we are a rare breed (melee stam builds) ...but but.....?

ZOS, special people need attention too

I join this rare breed group!

welcome to the club/guild/almost extinct breed

Lets keep the post alive maybe...and maybe...now that the miracles season is upon us...ZOS will make this fight even

danno8

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Another issue that is similar is the range/melee disparity of heavy attacks. I can heavy attack with a staff as much as I like while someone is blocking and drain their stamina. But if I heavy attack with a melee weapon I get stunned?

Yah that's another annoying one. #balancingopportunity

eventide03b14a_ESO

Yes

Maybe blocking stamina based attacks should cost stamina and blocking magicka attacks should cost magicka.

Rune_Relic

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Maybe blocking stamina based attacks should cost stamina and blocking magicka attacks should cost magicka.

And what about applying that to magical shields too then ?

xMovingTarget

No

All or nothing.

kongkim

Yes

Make it able to block all weapon damage based attacks.
No block against all magic damage based attacks.

But buff magic resistens from gear and abilities.

Do so not all class skills is magic but a mix to make balance.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

No

kongkim wrote: »

Make it able to block all weapon damage based attacks.
No block against all magic damage based attacks.

But buff magic resistens from gear and abilities.

Do so not all class skills is magic but a mix to make balance.

You want to make things worse?

eventide03b14a_ESO

Yes

Rune_Relic wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Maybe blocking stamina based attacks should cost stamina and blocking magicka attacks should cost magicka.

And what about applying that to magical shields too then ?

Well what if by default you couldn't block magicka attacks but had to take a passive in the mage's guild tree that granted you the ability to blocks spells but cost magicka?

I'm pretty sure you couldn't block magic attacks in any other TES game unless you used a ward spell or had Spellbreaker.

It's funny that the fighter's guild tree has all these great passives that work all the time but mage's guild passives kind of suck unless you are actually casting offensive mage's guild spells.

Rune_Relic

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Maybe blocking stamina based attacks should cost stamina and blocking magicka attacks should cost magicka.

And what about applying that to magical shields too then ?

Well what if by default you couldn't block magicka attacks but had to take a passive in the mage's guild tree that granted you the ability to blocks spells but cost magicka?

I'm pretty sure you couldn't block magic attacks in any other TES game unless you used a ward spell or had Spellbreaker.

It's funny that the fighter's guild tree has all these great passives that work all the time but mage's guild passives kind of suck unless you are actually casting offensive mage's guild spells.

Well....wards point is true...but you always had enchantments to block elemental or magical damage too. Still see no reasons why you couldnt have spell resist armour/shields where armour/shield can vary between spell and damage resist to suit you build.

Yeah...wasnt impressed with the mages guild stuff. But I think that was inevitable when they made all classes be magicka based. They should have just had Various schools in the mages guild and abandoned class skills IMHO. They should have had magicka weapons/armour/shield that scaled off magicka and worked off levels too.

TBH I think ESO dropped the ball. They could have had a classless system limted by weapon type and slot for both magicka and stamina.

Sharee

This is tackling the problem from the wrong end.

The problem is not that magicka is better than stamina because playing in a world where everyone blocks at all times, unblockable attacks rule.

The problem is that we are playing in a world everyone blocks at all times in the firstplace. Get rid of that instead.

danno8

Sharee wrote: »

This is tackling the problem from the wrong end.

The problem is not that magicka is better than stamina because playing in a world where everyone blocks at all times, unblockable attacks rule.

The problem is that we are playing in a world everyone blocks at all times in the firstplace. Get rid of that instead.

If they did this (and believe me I wish they would) you would still be left with AoE magicka attacks being vastly preferred over stamina counterparts.

If anything this just shows that there is more than one issue with stamina vs magicka.

1. Stamina builds can barely use their "class" skills
2. Stamina builds share a resource with block, sprint and break free
3. Stamina builds AoE are blockable

Too many huge disadvanteges. It's a good thing the damage for stamina builds is now mostly on par with magicka builds, but they still have very large practical limitations to them.

Sharee

danno816_ESO wrote: »

1. Stamina builds can barely use their "class" skills
2. Stamina builds share a resource with block, sprint and break free
3. Stamina builds AoE are blockable

1 is not that bad, you just have to stick to class skills which are supporting in nature, not DPS-ing. If you limit your class skills to things like long-lasting buffs(razor armor, cinder storm), effects you do not need to use often(ambush), or those that are very cheap(unstable flame) then you can function even as a stamina build.

2 is not that bad either but you need to spec around it. My NB has overcapped both stamina pool and regen, wears arena medium armor, and uses stamina cost reduction enchants. On top of that, redguard. Typically i only run out of stamina when i am spamming caltrops on an enemy zerg over and over (and even then it quickly refills thanks to adrenaline rush)

3 is a problem, but as i said, i believe the problem is less in stam builds being blockable and more in everyone blocking at all times.

NotSo

No

Well if they are blockable then can we at least remove the target caps associated with them?

danno8

Sharee wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

1. Stamina builds can barely use their "class" skills
2. Stamina builds share a resource with block, sprint and break free
3. Stamina builds AoE are blockable

1 is not that bad, you just have to stick to class skills which are supporting in nature, not DPS-ing. If you limit your class skills to things like long-lasting buffs(razor armor, cinder storm), effects you do not need to use often(ambush), or those that are very cheap(unstable flame) then you can function even as a stamina build.

2 is not that bad either but you need to spec around it. My NB has overcapped both stamina pool and regen, wears arena medium armor, and uses stamina cost reduction enchants. On top of that, redguard. Typically i only run out of stamina when i am spamming caltrops on an enemy zerg over and over (and even then it quickly refills thanks to adrenaline rush)

3 is a problem, but as i said, i believe the problem is less in stam builds being blockable and more in everyone blocking at all times.

1. It is my opinion that having all classes in any game being "magical" in nature is a problem with diversity. My Stamina based Sorcerer (also Redguard) uses Critical Rush and sometimes Thundering Presence, that's it. Why not have some skill lines that use stamina? I don't know. Thank god they made ultimates scale off the higher of the two a few updates ago.

2. But if you hold block even for a few seconds to absorb some damage you will say goodbye to half your stamina pool, even if you have tonnes of it, unless you use S+B with passives.

The above issues as one-off situations would not be so bad, but it is when you put them all together that they add up to a bigger problem.

In the end I don't think anyone could argue the game design was very flawed from the beginning and now ZoS is trying hard to get magicka and stamina more equal with each other. The blockable issue is just another ??? moment that I think should be changed, in addition to adding a penalty of sorts to perma-blocking, and adding a stamina skill line or two to all classes.