Sorcs under-powered comparatively in PvE Sanctum Ophidia number comparison

RavishedPsyche

So after reading some things people have posted about sorcs I would like to state some facts about end game PvE, and the DPS all classes do.

In Sanctum Ophidia the following is TOP end DPS:

-Dragon Knight:
-First boss: Top end 800-1200, mid tier 600-799, Low tier below 600
-Last boss: Top 1400+, mid 1000 to 1400, Low= lower than 1000

-Night Blade:
-First boss: Top end 1000-1200, mid tier 800-1000, Lower than 800
-Last boss: 800-1200 top, mid 600-800, low- lower than 600

-Sorcerer:
-First boss: Top end: ranges...way too much. 400-800, mid 400-600, and low is below 400
-Last boss: Top tier 700-1000, mid- 700-800, low below 700

-Templar:
-First boss: Top: 700-750, Mid: 600, Low- below 500
-Last boss: Same

Looking at this information, a GREAT sorc, can out DPS a Good DK or NB, but people on the same level, the Sorc is handicapped. Sorcs only use like one class ability, two if you include execute to bring higher DPS.

In the next patch when staffs go off of spell and not weapon power Sorcs will be useless. PLEASE Zos, PLEASE fix Sorcs so they aren't totally useless in PvE. The glass cannon class should be doing more DPS or at least the same as the DK class.

Tonturri

when staffs go off of spell and not weapon power Sorcs will be useless

Could you please explain why this is the case? I was under the impression that it would be because of Crit Surge and it boosting weapon power. If Crit Surge is out of use, that'd give me 305 magicka to play with every 20 seconds (15.1/sec). Admittedly that is somewhat lower than the cost of two Crushing Shocks, but I'm still having trouble running out of Magicka even with Crit Surge. In addition, I do not yet have Weakness to Elements morphed to regen Magicka per hit with a damage type, nor did I use potions (yes my first AA run I did rather poorly >.>)

Looking at my character, I could easily hit the spell damage soft cap via jewelry enchants alone (no setbonus stuff adding to spell damage) - I'm at 111/135 with one 14 spell damage enchant on a ring.

Thanks!


**Disregarding the current yuckiness that is Crushing/Force Shock in the first place.

RavishedPsyche

Because the only class skill people even use is crit surge. It makes a difference between DPS and crap DPS. While I concede it might not kill sorcs, it will kill the one class ability we use. We will then be just using the execute. Plus the way spell damage scales with our abilities I fear it will break Sorcs further.

Smajestic

I think, sorcer has just a big problem with the DPS.

Sorcer are the worst class for DPS in trial.

Maybe it's really time to change something for sorcer with the 2 goals:
1) Gameplay: have a gameplay a little more interesting than spamming just crushing shock, sorcer use only 2 spell class... really annoying

2) The sorcer DPS is the weakest, it's 30 % less thank DK, 20 % less then NB. It's really a big problem in the game

What to change:
1) have a real Dot: boost damage for Daedric curse (and morph)
2) change animation of crystal fragment (animation is too slow)
3) give the possibility to us daedric mine as for example fire rune
4) and all useless spell: Encase, rune prison, unstable familiar, summon winged

seanvwolf

Smajestic wrote: »

I think, sorcer has just a big problem with the DPS.

Sorcer are the worst class for DPS in trial.

Maybe it's really time to change something for sorcer with the 2 goals:
1) Gameplay: have a gameplay a little more interesting than spamming just crushing shock, sorcer use only 2 spell class... really annoying

2) The sorcer DPS is the weakest, it's 30 % less thank DK, 20 % less then NB. It's really a big problem in the game

What to change:
1) have a real Dot: boost damage for Daedric curse (and morph)
2) change animation of crystal fragment (animation is too slow)
3) give the possibility to us daedric mine as for example fire rune
4) and all useless spell: Encase, rune prison, unstable familiar, summon winged

As a VR6 stam sorc build, there are a few comments I have, considering that asking to change a class for end game material is actually asking to change a class for all current game material as well, so it impacts all us PvE and PvP sorcerers, regardless of build. Before I start let me just say that I don't understand why people complain about the DPS Sorcerer's put out, when they insist on playing as a skirt and stick sorcerer. My dw sorc can solo dolmens and worldbosses, without pets or atronach or negate. So I know that sorc CAN be effective if you play well.

On to the parts I agree and one I kind of disagree:

I agree on the DoT. Especially if that DoT converts damage dealt to stamina/magicka recovery, both. Swap the existing mechanics of Daedric curse for this and it would be a great DoT resource sustain skill that would diversify all the possible builds and allow for specialization or hybridization.

I agree on boosting effectiveness of all summoned pets, something as simple as clannfear taunting all mobs and winged twilight healing both player and clannfear, while clannfear attacks player targetted enemy would really solve this issue with sustained single target dps.

I disagree and think that Crystal fragments is always meant to be an opening gap closer. Animation is fine.

I agree that Daedric Mine would be much more effective if top tier mobs weren't too powerful for the effect.

I agree and although I think rune prison works beautifully for it's utility, that utility needs to be more effective against top tier mobs as these skills are utility only and don't have DD damage. Please, make it work most of the time against end game trial mobs, or we just won't slot it. You can give enemies the chance to break CC, and should, but it should stick.

Pyatra

Smajestic wrote: »

I think, sorcer has just a big problem with the DPS.

Sorcer are the worst class for DPS in trial.

Maybe it's really time to change something for sorcer with the 2 goals:
1) Gameplay: have a gameplay a little more interesting than spamming just crushing shock, sorcer use only 2 spell class... really annoying

2) The sorcer DPS is the weakest, it's 30 % less thank DK, 20 % less then NB. It's really a big problem in the game

What to change:
1) have a real Dot: boost damage for Daedric curse (and morph)
2) change animation of crystal fragment (animation is too slow)
3) give the possibility to us daedric mine as for example fire rune
4) and all useless spell: Encase, rune prison, unstable familiar, summon winged

Encase is fine for keeping melee away from you but there are a lot of abilities that are useless for endgame content to be competitive. Endgame being along the lines of Trials or PvP. The problem is that until we have other options for ranged Magick damage other than Crushing Shock, we are going to keep using Crushing shock. I hope the spellcraft system gives us more options. They will probably scale Spell Damage to Staff ability damage so DPS should remain the same.

RavishedPsyche

seanvwolf wrote: »

I agree on boosting effectiveness of all summoned pets, something as simple as clannfear taunting all mobs and winged twilight healing both player and clannfear, while clannfear attacks player targetted enemy would really solve this issue with sustained single target dps.

First off... giving ANY taunt to the pets would be disastrous. It would make pets even LESS viable in trials. Increased THREAT Generation SURE, TAUNT PLEASE NO. Secondly.. these would be my personal suggestions.

Suggestions:
Pets: Like in another MMO we all know (WoW) pets take 95 percent less damage from AoE attacks. This would make the pets useful in PvE. Right now there is no way to bring them into a raid. Player targeted boss abilities and mechanics in general shouldn't effect pets.

In general buffing the pets, scaling off of spell damage and max magic would be something to help. The pets are useless once you are max level in PvE.

Curse: Chance to refresh the curse when you attack target effected by curse. This would help in the long duration fights. So if you attack something you have cursed you can refresh it (or have a chance to do so) when you attack it. A chance that is reasonable would be essential.

Atro synergy: Please make it instant. This is a way to make it viable to drop the ultimate near the group. As it is atros need to be dropped away from the group to not take up DPS from other players. The charging is a waste, which leads people to not using them at all.

Crystal Fragments: The cost is too high to make this a viable skill in PvE, but it should be something Sorcs use (its a class ability that seems to be something you are meant to use after all).

Lightening Spash/ Flood etc: Cost is too high to be a viable skill. Reduce cost but put a cooldown on the skill so it isn't over used in both PvE and PvP.

These are my suggestions, because I don't think these would effect PvPers or stam builds negatively or make them overpowered.

As for sorcs using staff/magic builds... uhm.. they are meant to. This is the caster class if ever there was one. I rolled Sorc to play a magic build. Night blades probably rolled night blades to be stam builds but the minority of Sorcs rolled them thinking "hey I'm going to be a stam build."


MINES: Make them hit bosses and NPCs like before and reduce player hits or hit box in PvP

Smajestic wrote: »

I think, sorcer has just a big problem with the DPS.

Sorcer are the worst class for DPS in trial.

Maybe it's really time to change something for sorcer with the 2 goals:
1) Gameplay: have a gameplay a little more interesting than spamming just crushing shock, sorcer use only 2 spell class... really annoying

2) The sorcer DPS is the weakest, it's 30 % less thank DK, 20 % less then NB. It's really a big problem in the game

What to change:
1) have a real Dot: boost damage for Daedric curse (and morph)
2) change animation of crystal fragment (animation is too slow)
3) give the possibility to us daedric mine as for example fire rune
4) and all useless spell: Encase, rune prison, unstable familiar, summon winged

In regards to this, good ideas!

Pyatra

• Curse: You don't want it to refresh it is a time bomb you want it to pop and if you made it a DoT, refreshing would be OP.
• Atro Synergy: Agree synergy people will yell at you for.
• Lightning Splash: The problem is the damage except the Synergy, which is hard to pull off unless you spam 2 back to back.
• CF: Snipe is better, faster, and hard to discern visually. Make CF take the same amount of time as snipe to cast.
• Pets: agree
• Mines: they nerfed because of PVE and overlarge mob hit boxes, no PVP. They do not need a hit box reduction in PVP and even before they didn't as normal hit box creatures act the same before and after nerf. Will trade for Reflective Scales.
• Rune Prison, amazing in theory in PVE but ultimately very limited in usefulness and has a 1.5 second cast time, make it a DoT or do something with it.

RavishedPsyche

Chance to refresh like shards has a chance at instant cast. There is a difference, and it wouldn't be OP but it would be powerful, and Sorcs need something Powerful at this point.