Idea about Sorc's Rewamp

Exstazik

Now all in google docs with some rewamping and offers:)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hJO09jLrXwyxOMWtz5lhWENMvMZkoeYPYdrfQBztXJI/edit#


Storm Calling

1. Lightning Splash
   
   Creates a wave(cone) of lightning that deals X Shock. and paste the Concussion Status effect, reducing enemy damage done by Y% for 8 seconds.
   • 1st morph-reduce enemy spell resistance
   • 2nd morph-target takes X% increased damage from lighting attacks
   
   
2. Energized

• Increases damage of ALL lighting abilities by 5%.

Daedric Summoning

[*] Unstable Familiar

• Should have taunt ability

[*] Summon Winged Twilight

• 1st morph-deals an additional X% damage also each attack Snare enemy on Y% for Z seconds
• 2nd morph-give a shield to player when drop below 30% HP which reflects all projectiles for X seconds.This can only occur once every 20 seconds.
  

[*] Conjured Ward

• 1st morph-shield creates also on nearby allies and it’s up on 100% on caster.
  
• 2nd morph-Shield creates on summon creatures.When effect ends it heals Summons for X points.

[*] Daedric Curse

• 1st morph-target is cursed for X damage over Y seconds
  
• 2nd morph-curse end sooner. Only 1 Curse may be active at 1 mob/player/npc at a time for each sorc.

Dark Magic

1. Encase
   
   Immobilizes enemies in front of your for 4.5 seconds and deals X magic damage.
   • 1st morph-add Y damage after 4.5 sec.
   • 2nd morph-add snare to targets for X sec
   
   
2. Rune Prison
   disorient target for 3 sec.
   radius-15
   Cast time-instant
   Magicka cost –x2 of normal Rune prison
   
   • 1st morph-increase range for total 25m
   • 2nd morph-Deal X damage after disorient ends
3. Daedric Mines-replace this with Bound Weapon
   
   Bound Weapon Increase spell damage of nearby allies on X for Y seconds(~1 min)
   
   • 1st morph- Bonus increased on caster on 100%
   • 2nd morph-Adds X damage to your spell attacks.

Now all in google docs with some rewamping and offers:)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hJO09jLrXwyxOMWtz5lhWENMvMZkoeYPYdrfQBztXJI/edit#

Kypho

and make curse blockable, end streakspam, end streak CC spam.

Panda244

I do like the look of Bound Weapon and Lightning Splash, but a 25m Radius on Rune Prison

Thats a bit... Much... No, that's ALOT much, I wouldn't use the familiars cause they stink so I dunno bout that, otherwise everything else looks neat.

eserras7b16_ESO

Well truth is nobody is going to see a sorcerer using it's summoning habilities (or most of sorc habilities) because they suck mostly, give it some use on dungeons/Trials/PvP for the pets aswell...

Hypertionb14_ESO

alot of no...

first off mines is dark magic, not summoning so that change makes no sense..

second, there is no need to have damage on cast for encase, tho the damage of the one morph should be improved..

third, HELL no for the taunt on any pet, unless you can control it, that would make pets even more reviled than they already are.

fourth.... please no "make it like reflective scales" nonsense... enough of that from DKs as it is..

5th, rune prison needs change, but not one that utterly destroys its function by reducing the duration to nothing in exchange for a AOE.

6th, lightning splash is wonderful dps atm and while it could use a few extra seconds of duration, it is currently compairable to the DPS gained from Veil of Blades tho shorter lived.. those proposed changes would be utterly destructive to the class overall..



i will however approve of the idea of a version of curse that does a DOT untill the explosion effect fires over the AOE or even the accelerated morph. and adding a Snare to all pet attacks would be a good bonus for them universally..

Dracane

I like the lightning splash part. But the rest is rather junk and a nerf, as it is an improvement. And encase seems also quiet good.

Gyudan

Very nice ideas @Exstazik ! It would be great if @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom could take a look and forward them to the dev team.

The only slight disagreement I have is bound weapons. It doesn't really make sense that this spell would increase spell resistance given its name, even though this ability would be very nice for sorcerers to have. (imagine, finally something to help groupmates!) It doesn't make much sense to have it in the dark magic tree either.
Daedric Mine is fine at the moment. Even though it's not very useful in PVE outside of single player content, it has its uses in PVP.

What I suggest is this:
- Daedric (Velocious) Curse moves to the Dark Magic tree, as it has nothing to do with summoning
- Encase and Rune Prison get combined into 1 single utility ability, maybe with 1 morph granting a larger area effect and the other focusing on single target. We don't need 2 different abilities that do 0 damage and only add crow control.
- New ability in the Daedric Summoning tree to increase spell damage for nearby allies, much like the DK's boost to weapon damage. I don't have any ideas for a name, but bound weapons really doesn't fit imho.

Merlight

Gyudan wrote: »

- Daedric (Velocious) Curse moves to the Dark Magic tree, as it has nothing to do with summoning

Exactly, I always thought Curse and Mines switched places. Perhaps they didn't want Curse to proc Blood Magic... it would sure make it better than it already is, but really enough to move it to the wrong tree?

On topic: leave Mines as they are. Unless you want to make them properly place-able

Gorthax

Merlight wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

- Daedric (Velocious) Curse moves to the Dark Magic tree, as it has nothing to do with summoning

Exactly, I always thought Curse and Mines switched places. Perhaps they didn't want Curse to proc Blood Magic... it would sure make it better than it already is, but really enough to move it to the wrong tree?

On topic: leave Mines as they are. Unless you want to make them properly place-able

I always wanted to use mines.....then I figured out how utterly useless they are outside of pve lol even in PVE they are meh

WrathOfRegicide

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

alot of no...

first off mines is dark magic, not summoning so that change makes no sense..

second, there is no need to have damage on cast for encase, tho the damage of the one morph should be improved..

third, HELL no for the taunt on any pet, unless you can control it, that would make pets even more reviled than they already are.

fourth.... please no "make it like reflective scales" nonsense... enough of that from DKs as it is..

5th, rune prison needs change, but not one that utterly destroys its function by reducing the duration to nothing in exchange for a AOE.

6th, lightning splash is wonderful dps atm and while it could use a few extra seconds of duration, it is currently compairable to the DPS gained from Veil of Blades tho shorter lived.. those proposed changes would be utterly destructive to the class overall..



i will however approve of the idea of a version of curse that does a DOT untill the explosion effect fires over the AOE or even the accelerated morph. and adding a Snare to all pet attacks would be a good bonus for them universally..

Could switch daedric cuse and mines (which it would be bound weapon) that would make more sense. daedric curse always seemed more of a dark magic than daedric summoning imo.

Nightreaver

Exstazik wrote: »

Storm Calling
Lightning Splash
Creates a wave(cone) of lightning that deals X Shock. and paste the Concussion Status effect, reducing enemy damage done by Y% for 8 seconds

Based on your suggestions I get the impression you want to turn the Sorcerer into another melee class.
I would like to see an increase in damage to bring it more in line with Impulse.
My personal preference would be:
• Morph 1: Range 6-28 M (to avoid stacking with Impulse)
• Morph 2: (Your suggestion) Creates a wave(cone) of lightning that deals X Shock.
This way you have one option for those who prefer Melee and one for those who prefer Ranged.

Critical Surge
If they are changing Staff damage to Magicka damage then I would really like to see Critical Surge changed from " Increase weapon damage X amount for 20 seconds." to include spell damage. Something along the lines of "Increase weapon and spell damage X amount 20 seconds."

Exstazik wrote: »

Daedric Summoning

[*] Unstable Familiar

• Should have taunt ability

[*] Summon Winged Twilight

• 1st morph-deals an additional X% damage also each attack Snare enemy on Y% for Z seconds
• 2nd morph-give a shield to player when drop below 30% HP which reflects all projectiles for X seconds.This can only occur once every 20 seconds.
  

Daedric Summoning
Storm Atronach
First and foremost, get rid of the AOE morph, it's completely worthless. Replace it with a morph that is identical to the ST morph version but with Taunt. You know, like what most Sorcerers had asked for before they thoughtlessly removed Taunt altogether.

Unstable Familiar
• Morph 1: Tank pet with Taunt and Charge
• Morph 2: Melee physical DPS with Stun

Summon Winged Twilight
• Morph 1: Heal pet - Casts Mutagen (HoT that becomes a direct heal when target is below 20% Health)
• Morph 2: Ranged Magic DPS

The problem here of course would be that each pet would complain that the others are OP.

Exstazik wrote: »

[*] Daedric Curse

[*] 1st morph-target is cursed for X damage over Y seconds

YES! A thousand times yes, make it so. A DOT that explodes upon conclusion. Kinda sounds like a working version of the pet morph except that it can't be spammed.

Exstazik wrote: »

Dark Magic

[*]Rune Prison
disorient target for 3 sec.
radius-15
Cast time-instant
Magicka cost –x2 of normal Rune prison

• 1st morph-increase range for total 25m
• 2nd morph-Deal X damage after disorient ends

I actually prefer the current version of a ranged long duration single target CC. But maybe offer this as a morph option for melee builds.

Jahosefat

Kypho wrote: »

and make curse blockable, end streakspam, end streak CC spam.

"Nerf streak again! Nerf streak again!...." lol what is it with people and streak? I've got another dead horse for you, reflective scales...

Cathexis

Daedric Mines would be awesome if they just dropped the mana cost down to 100 and let you put down as many as you want.

If you want to replace any skill, bound armor i think is the best choice, but even that could just get a nice buff and an animation that doesn't replace your current armor (at least entirely) or have an option to disable the costume. Bound Weapon is kind of dumb, we already have overload. If anything it would be nice to see overload replaced with bound weapon and have a feature that cycles it between staff/bow/two hand/dual wield/swordboard.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

But we definitely have some duds in our skill lines that need a revamp.

Rune Prison. I don't even know where to begin. Need a morph of this that is actually useful in PvP. Edit: What sorcs really need is a ranged, single target dispel skill. (I don't mean another negate. Negate both silences and dispels) What I really want is a ranged skill that removes active effects (buffs) on enemy players. It would be a great counter to DKs using scales because it would force them to trade magicka with sorcs and re-cast if dispelled. I wouldn't mind a cast time equivalent to crystal shards or (templar) dark flare. The utility would be worth it.

Morph of encase should dispel all active skill based effects (buffs) on target. Should be ranged, non-projectile, unblockable (like curse) but could have a cast time.

Lightning Splash: Doesn't last nearly long enough and the pre-morph radius is laughably small. It should function like the tower mages version of it. (improved storm torrent?) I actually have to move when the tower mages cast this ability. When players cast it I can dance in it. Radius should be the same as the tower mage one. One morph can have the synergy, the other morph can do more damage or last longer like the mage guard version.

Crit surge: base spell increases both spell and weapon damage then LEAVE IT BE. Please dont make this a spell damage only skill and screw over melee and stamina sorcs.

Daedric Mines: reduce the cost. Someone walking into your mines shouldn't take you out of stealth. Should be able to cast more than once without old ones disappearing.

Encase: morphs are a bit meh. Need to have the AOE rectangle go behind you a bit. if you are right on top of someone, i.e. after a charge, sometimes this ability doesn't hit.

Overload.

So many issues with this one. First of all, it should actually count as light and heavy attacks so it can be buffed by bound armaments and other sets that buff light or heavy attacks.

Secondly, its just plain clunky. You cant use weapon abilities with it activated. And the projectiles travel at such a snails pace that they can be completely dodged. The AOE is very anemic and you are a sitting duck while using it.

Also, when the damage was increased, they made each shot use more ultimate BUT left the magic return the same so it barely returns any magic before you are completely out of ultimate.

Here is my suggestion for the skill.

Morph 1. Increases AOE cone and returns significant magic per cast. (basically current morphs 1 and 2). Increase the movement speed a bit while channeling heavy attack.

Morph 2: Actually do what the tool tip says it does. Makes your existing light and heavy attacks stronger adding shock damage. Would have to change the animation so a lightning charge is seen around your weapon, (sword, bow, staff, etc).

Hitting someone with a light or heavy attack with overload toggled does base weapon damage + enchant proc + overload damage.

That way you could use it with any weapon, lighting sword, lighting bow, and it would just buff your weapon damage for x amount of hits before it runs out. Keep it toggle-able and keep the 3rd skill bar.


Negate: Spell resist morph needs a buff. Spell resist is almost useless for a sorc already maxed out in spell resist. .Would rather have a damage shield or 50% less damage to incoming spells (like the old annulment) while under the dome.

Atronarch. Taunt morph for PvE, Better less clunky AoE morph for PvP.


Edit: The missing skill. Sorcs are still missing something. A better self heal, or something for survivability. I would like some sort of knockback to keep people off you. Like the other morph of hardened ward instead of buffing pets, will create a knockback effect on a melee attack but also break the shield.

Best suggestion for filling in the missing skill would be creating a rune prison morph that does NOT stun but just dispels. Ranged, single target, unblockable. See rune prison section above. Sorcs need a counter to blazing shield and scales and this would be perfect.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Great suggestions ^

guybrushtb16_ESO

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Well truth is nobody is going to see a sorcerer using it's summoning habilities (or most of sorc habilities) because they suck mostly, give it some use on dungeons/Trials/PvP for the pets aswell...

That may sound harsh, but I really think summons in this game are a dead end. People want them to play a more substantial role in combat, but for balance reasons, that can't really happen, not as long as we have full access to every other damaging ability. A pet class just can't have the full array of abilities of a standard caster *and* a pet on top.

Nightreaver

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Well truth is nobody is going to see a sorcerer using it's summoning habilities (or most of sorc habilities) because they suck mostly, give it some use on dungeons/Trials/PvP for the pets aswell...

That may sounds harsh, but I really think summons in this game are a dead end. People want them to play a more substantial role in combat, but for balance reasons, that can't really happen, not as long as we have full access to every other damaging ability. A pet class just can't have the full array of abilities of a standard caster *and* a pet on top.

If this were any other MMO where pets have a full array of abilities then I might agree. But in ESO pets are no more than just another class ability option, one that is rarely worth taking up two slots on your active ability bars.

When a Sorcerer uses a pet he does not have the full array of a standard caster. He forfeits 20% of his ability options as well as 10% of his max magicka. I honestly believe pets can and are intended to be used in conjunction with other Sorcerer class abilities without being OP.

Heal pet - would give us the ability to heal other players, something this class sorely needs. Random heals from a Heal pet would bring us closer to matching Templar heal but doubt it would ever match much less exceed Templar healing.

Tank pet - Would never replace a player Tank in groups but could be a great boon to ranged Sorcerers when soloing and perhaps even to groups without a Tank.

DPS pet - In respect to DPS, the current pets aren't worth the two slots they require to keep them active much less making Sorcerers OP with their use. But a DPS pet with better DPS might bring us closer to matching the DPS of other classes.

Pets are Sorcerers class defining skill line. They are what make Sorcerers unique in respect to all other classes. If they can't be made viable then they need to be removed and the whole class redefined.

On a side note
Sorcerers are also Elementalists, not Daedra. Instead of summoning Daedra I wish we could summon Elemental Atronachs.
Tank - Earth
Healing - Air
Melee - Fire
Ranged - Lightning

Gyudan

Nightreaver wrote: »

On a side note
Sorcerers are also Elementalists, not Daedra. Instead of summoning Daedra I wish we could summon Elemental Atronachs.
Tank - Earth
Healing - Air
Melee - Fire
Ranged - Lightning

That will be possible for all classes when spellcrafting is released. You should check the Quakecon videos.

I agree with you, as they are now sorcerer pets are completely useless in any form of group content. Maybe a passive %dmg increased or %dmg taken or %heal received could help. Having them cast real abilities could be another suggestion, like mutagen that was suggested above.
The biggest issue imho is still how quickly they die. One single AoE attack from a boss and you can say goodbye to your pet.
The restoring Twilight (10% increased mana regen for nearby allies) could be a great asset if she wasn't getting aggro-ed and was untargetable. I wouldn't mind her dealing reduced dmg or no dmg at all.

The problem is similar for the new "Maw of the Infernal" dungeon set. It summons a Daedroth on light/heavy attacks with a X% chance (somewhere around 6%, I don't remember the exact value). Even though it's quite fun to actually see it fight alongside a group, the dmg it deals is ridiculously low and it doesn't last long when a boss is using AoE. It's pretty much as effective as a sorcerer's Unstable Clannfear. The only pet from those dungeon sets that seems effective is the dwemer sphere from Darkshade Caverns, and guess what it does? Healing/Support role.

I think ZoS needs to take a good look at the pets they designed for fighting, especially if they plan to add more with spellcrafting. Sorcerers clearly showed that those abilities are useless as they are currently implemented.

Cody

that reflective scales-ish change is a HECK NO from me. DKs already use it too much as it is; we dont need sorcerers doing it too.

I do want to see a huge improvment to pets. im not saying make them as powerful as an actual player; but they are currently too weak and useless to keep on the ability bar.

and is rune prison that ridiculous ability with those wierd crystals that once kept me stuck for over 15 seconds way back in wabbajack??? without letting me CC break it?? if so, heck yes that needs a change. nothign should make you utterly defenseless in battle. however, the duration should nto be only 3 seconds. unless you can nuke someone in three seconds, there would be no reason to use it. oh and it needs to be Cc breakable. im sure it is nowadays; but when i got hit by it, it would not let me break it for almost 20 seconds.

Exstazik

So i redone some idea's
This link
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hJO09jLrXwyxOMWtz5lhWENMvMZkoeYPYdrfQBztXJI/edit#


P.S.If someone think it's to OP let's give sorc only 1 skill....absorb magic=4 sec all spell's damage absorb's and given to player 120% total dmg to magicka ^^(dk's have reflect from mysticism and sorc's will have absorb)

guybrushtb16_ESO

Nightreaver wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Well truth is nobody is going to see a sorcerer using it's summoning habilities (or most of sorc habilities) because they suck mostly, give it some use on dungeons/Trials/PvP for the pets aswell...

That may sounds harsh, but I really think summons in this game are a dead end. People want them to play a more substantial role in combat, but for balance reasons, that can't really happen, not as long as we have full access to every other damaging ability. A pet class just can't have the full array of abilities of a standard caster *and* a pet on top.

If this were any other MMO where pets have a full array of abilities then I might agree. But in ESO pets are no more than just another class ability option, one that is rarely worth taking up two slots on your active ability bars.

When a Sorcerer uses a pet he does not have the full array of a standard caster. He forfeits 20% of his ability options as well as 10% of his max magicka. I honestly believe pets can and are intended to be used in conjunction with other Sorcerer class abilities without being OP.

My point is that 20% of your hotbar sounds like much, but it does not even come close to 20% dps, because the bulk of your dps will always come from a combination of your spammed skill + attack weaving. Balacing wise, pets would be on par with everything else if they basically replaced the dps of one dot and that isn't really much.

Nightreaver wrote: »

Heal pet - would give us the ability to heal other players, something this class sorely needs. Random heals from a Heal pet would bring us closer to matching Templar heal but doubt it would ever match much less exceed Templar healing.

Tank pet - Would never replace a player Tank in groups but could be a great boon to ranged Sorcerers when soloing and perhaps even to groups without a Tank.

DPS pet - In respect to DPS, the current pets aren't worth the two slots they require to keep them active much less making Sorcerers OP with their use. But a DPS pet with better DPS might bring us closer to matching the DPS of other classes.

Although these ideas sound nice in a vacuum, I would never ever want to outsource something as important as healing to the hands of the rather simplicistic summon AI we have. Templar heals are preferred because of one skill really, and that is breath of life being an instant long range single target spike heal, which is basically the opposite of random pet heals.

Similarly, a dps pet is another can of worms, because especially in group situations, pets will often either fail at mechanics or may actually be a detriment to the group if they do something stupid like aggro mobs or attack at the wrong time.

Nightreaver wrote: »

On a side note
Sorcerers are also Elementalists, not Daedra. Instead of summoning Daedra I wish we could summon Elemental Atronachs.
Tank - Earth
Healing - Air
Melee - Fire
Ranged - Lightning

Summoning atronachs is actually something they already showcased for the spellcrafting system. Maybe we'll even see some passives changed to accomodate them somehow.

BugCollector

I'm all in favor for this. You guys could use some buffs as well, like us Templars.

Nightreaver

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

My point is that 20% of your hotbar sounds like much, but it does not even come close to 20% dps, because the bulk of your dps will always come from a combination of your spammed skill + attack weaving. Balacing wise, pets would be on par with everything else if they basically replaced the dps of one dot and that isn't really much.

Right now, the closest thing that Sorcerers have to a DOT is our pet and that is only around 50 DPS. I'm sure ESO could create a DPS pet that would bring Sorcerers more in line with the DPS of other classes without making Sorcerers OP.

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Although these ideas sound nice in a vacuum, I would never ever want to outsource something as important as healing to the hands of the rather simplicistic summon AI we have. Templar heals are preferred because of one skill really, and that is breath of life being an instant long range single target spike heal, which is basically the opposite of random pet heals.

The pet wouldn't be intended to replace a Healer but to augment one in the same manner that a DPS pet would add to a Sorcerers DPS, not be the DPS. Having a pet with a ranged ST direct heal would be a welcome addition to a Sorcerer Healer who is mostly restricted to HOTs. Would it make us equal to Templars? Probably not but I imagine it would be sufficient to make healing many encounters much easier for Sorcerers. I've played MMOs where the Healer pet was better than a lot of player Healers.

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Similarly, a dps pet is another can of worms, because especially in group situations, pets will often either fail at mechanics or may actually be a detriment to the group if they do something stupid like aggro mobs or attack at the wrong time.

The same can be said of many players.
Yes, I'm sure there would be encounters where a DPS pet wouldn't be the best option. But then the same can be said of most abilities. And there just might be encounters where a pet would be the best option. I would actually prefer it that way as opposed to having an ability that would make it required in all Sorcerer builds.
Other MMOs have managed to make pets work, I see no reason why it couldn't be done in ESO.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Nightreaver wrote: »

Other MMOs have managed to make pets work, I see no reason why it couldn't be done in ESO.

Maybe our experiences differ, but looking at how other mmos did it is precisely what makes me skeptical about pet AIs in general.

Aziah

Changes I would like to see for Daedric Summoning:

• Both morphs of Summon Storm Atronach should have CC immunity. Currently, this ultimate can be rendered useless by skills like Rune Prison and Petrify. Greater Storm Atronach should be able to taunt mobs in PvE; just add a hierarchy in groups so that it cannot taunt any mobs that the player tank currently has taunted. Summon Charged Atronach needs a buff to the damage of its AOE attack that makes the current risk of using the synergy actually worth it.
• Pets need some work. As of right now, they are only uniquely useful in their ability to take mob aggro in PvE, and the most viable pet build in PvP involves summoning and then rather quickly unsummoning Volatile Familiar. Not good. Right now, both Nightblades' Shades and some of the new armor set summons are outclassing Sorcerer pets in PvP utility, and neither have half of a skill line dedicated to them. Higher damage, better heals, more CC, and passive buffs/debuffs are all options Zeni has to work with.
• Daedric Curse is a fairly interesting skill that provides Sorcerers with great burst potential, but I agree with the DoT idea for Explosive Curse. The "higher and bigger AOE damage vs. better single-target DPS" theme with the Sorc class makes for very boring and linear morph choices when overused. I also feel that this skill should be traded with Daedric Mines from the Dark Magic line, where it would synergize very nicely with the other skills and passives (excepting Persistence). Just my opinion though.
• I'm not a huge fan of Bound Armor, mostly because the Max Magicka debuff when paired with the loss of two skill slots is such a strong handicap. I don't see this ever becoming a very popular skill, but I think Zeni can free up some room for toying around if they make it so both morphs give the same armor buff, with Armaments increasing both heavy and light attack damage, and Aegis increasing the strength of shields cast on or by the player by 10%.
• Conjured Ward seems fine as it is to me. I think it's a great complement to a class that encourages "glass cannon" and "active defense" archetypes. In PvP (we have Critical Surge for PvE), Sorcs don't have the same damage mitigation that DKs do, or the DoT heals and evasion tanking capabilities of NBs, or burst heals of Templars, and that's okay. We are known for shield stacking. This prompts other classes to focus on CCing us and bursting down our shields with melee abilities to get to the squishy health pools beneath, which is a relationship I would expect between the archetypal mage class and the more melee-based ones.
• The passives for this skill line are okay for the most part. Power Stone is a great passive boost, as is Daedric Protection. I feel that Expert Summoner should be broadened into a buff for all summons and related abilities considering the upcoming spellcrafting system. Rebate is the only thing keeping the boompet build going, but it's not too useful outside of that. Overall, I feel that this skill line is not as cohesive as the Dark Magic and Storm Calling lines are, and is really centered around a "theme" (summoning) rather than functioning as a pillar to the class playstyle (nukes and strong-armed utilities/CCs for DM; mobility, flashy utility, and damage for SC).

Changes I would like to see for Dark Magic:

• Negate Magic is one of the best ultimates in the game, but, as Yolokin sort of stated before, Suppression Field could provide a pre-nerf Harness-esque damage shield to all players standing within it, minus the magicka return, instead of the current flat-number buffs.
• Crystal Shards is the main thing giving Sorcs any type of upper hand in ranged combat. I like the concept of this skill, especially the Crystal Fragments morph, because it offers a source of synergy with spammable ranged abilities for us that other classes do not have.
• Encase would benefit greatly from a simple cost reduction and more concise cast animation. A lot of Sorcs, including me, would love using this skill to stop those charging DKs and gap-closing NBs in their tracks.
• So... Rune Prison. Not sure what's up with that, Zeni. I've actually got my skill point's worth for it in AvA while trolling people on horseback, but I think it could be so much more. It may be a single-target CC with a considerable cast time in a world full of spammable AOE CC+DPS skills, but there are not many other ranged, pure CCs like this. Firstly, the Rune Cage morph should immobilize the target after they break out of the disorient instead of stunning them, so that they have to first Break Free and then dodge roll instead of just removing both the disorient and stun upon the first Break Free. Secondly, I think it would be interesting if this skill were unblockable (like Aspect of Terror for Nightblades). This may sound strong, but keep in mind that the Mass Hysteria morph of the aforementioned is an AOE, snares, causes a significant weapon damage debuff, and actually moves all nearby opponents. This single-target skill would be a nice but relatively tame "block buster" to add to the arsenals of mages and hybrids alike. The cast time would remain to make it easily interruptable. And no, I'm not trying to suggest homology!
• I like Dark Exchange, or the concept of it at least. You probably won't catch me, or many other Sorcs, using it in PvP at the moment, but it's alright in PvE and the idea is nice. I personally don't see why a Sorc couldn't move (with a heavy snare) and still cast while channeling the ability, as Stamina is, contrary to popular belief, still a very valuable resource for mages in addition to melee players. If Immovable were changed so that it required the caster to be wearing five pieces of heavy armor, I think this idea would be fair. Upon seeing someone using the skill, any ole DK could wait for a lapse in immunity and hit the poor mage up with a nice knockdown + talons + whip combo knowing they're drained of stamina and unable to break any CCs. In this case, Dark Conversion would cost less stamina to use, while Dark Deal would go back to the olden days where it gave the caster a little buff to Spell Resist and Armor. You won't find me QQing if they don't change this skill though, or any of the skills on this list for that matter. They're just ideas.
• As I mentioned above, I feel that Daedric Mines should be switched with Daedric Curse, although it wouldn't have a lot of synergy with the passives in the Daedric Summoning line. This skill is a really nice utility to have, albeit somewhat situational at times. It's fun to drop on flags, at keep breaches, during small-scale battles and 1v1s, or behind those crates when farming inside a wall or bridge. A small cost reduction couldn't hurt, but this isn't a skill you'd exactly be spamming, unless it was changed so that we could cast it multiple times.
• The passives for this skill line are very solid, and widely applicable which I can appreciate. I don't think I would change anything, although Persistence would need to be manipulated to accommodate Daedric Curse if it were moved to this skill line.

Changes I would like to see for Storm Calling:

• Overload feels a bit gimmicky and awkward as it stands. Yolokin's idea of combining the two current morphs into one morph while adding a significant chunk of shock damage to your existing weapon's light and heavy attacks for the second morph is a pretty clean way of handling this.
• Both morphs of Mages' Fury are fine. This is once again a somewhat lackluster morph decision, though, but I see people using both morphs about equally.
• Both morphs of Lightning Form are fine.
• Lightning Splash is the only active ability I would change in this skill line. The morphs are alright, but the AOE for both seems a little small. The damage per tick should be enough so that even the sturdiest of players will start to feel a little itch in their health pool and move out of it. I think one interesting idea to look at is a x% chance per tick to stun all players in the AOE. This could be applied to both morphs or just one.
• I don't have much information on the changes Zeni is making to spell damage, weapon damage, and Surge, but I will say that if Surge were changed to increase both weapon and spell damage, it would completely solve the current lack of "cannon" to this "glass cannon" class in PvE.
• Bolt Escape had its nerf, everyone, but I will admit that it's still an amazing skill (one of the best in the game), and a staple on any Sorcerer's bar.
• The passives are all great and appropriate for this skill line. I honestly don't have much to say since this is easily the class's best line and one of the, if not the, best in the game.

Dyride

5 things to Improve Sorcs
1) Reduce the animation time for instant Crystal Fragments. See 1 below.

2) Keep Surge or its successors relevant to dps, healing, and stamina builds going forward.

3) Make summons more relevant to veteran or end-game content by increasing utility, DPS, and toughness in some way.

4) Cheaper Daedric Mines or Encase

5) No more nerfs delivering on items 1-4.


It is that simple. Everything below is in-depth so use the items above as your guiding principles for the Sorcerer during the months ahead.

@ZOS_PaulSage‌ @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

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The main problem will be how the Sorcerer can be versatile in different builds, both for PvE and PvP, ranged versus melee and magicka versus stamina.

Sorcerers do have very strong mobility and armor/spell resist buffs and crowd control. But these are magicka intensive, especially the major skills that can add to group utility and seem hard to sustain unless specialized towards magicka.

Right now, solo PvE is ok if you rely on Crit Surge for heals, but it is definitely the weakest class for stamina builds because of the reliance on either crits, blood magic, or weapon skills for healing if not running a healing staff. Maybe the answer is some combinations of all three can sustain. I don't have an answer yet though.

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I like almost all of the suggestions mentioned by Aziah, including ideas seconded from Yolokin.

I'm not onboard with the changes that Exstazik suggested except possibly the healing shield for summons. The other suggestions felt too much like trying to create a Lightning DK.

Here are some brainstormed changes to the staus quo.

Daedric Summoning:

For pets, Aziah had worthy ideas. I'm personally not a huge fan of pets but that is mostly due to their current limitations. The addition of up to 150 DPS would make them somewhat worthwhile along with other customization options mentioned in previous comments.

I think the Greater Storm Atronach having secondary priority to the player taunt is a great idea. Plus CC is a definite problem and can counter an Ultimate using a common skill mechanism.

Daedric curse having a DoT+single target burst vs. AoE delay burst sounds like an excellent trade-off, especially considering how hard it can be to build ultimate with few class DoTs.

Swapping Daedric mines and curse would also make more sense to me as well, though curse and hardened ward are the only summoning skills I currently use.

Dark Magic:

1 The instant cast for Crystal Fragments should fire off much quicker, it still takes almost the whole casting time but only removes the ability to be interrupted during the animation.

This would go a long way toward improving the DPS performance for the class in PvE and have little balance impact on PvP.

I concur with cost reduction on Daedric mines and maybe only Shattering Prison. Definitely no need to allow multiple instances of mines though. No.

Restraining Prison could also include a small buff to elemental damage for those immobilized at a higher cost than Shattering Prison.

Rune prison being unblockable and requiring break free + roll dodge sounds too much Not sure what else to say because I don't have much experience with it.

Storm calling:
I think the Storm Calling skill line is probably the best single skill line in the game and is really the redeeming line for Sorcerers.

I enjoy the 3rd bar as currently implemented for Overload but Overload morphs could be tweaked.

I concur that Lightning Flood appears underwhelming unless the synergy is pulled. It would be nice if Flood had a longer duration and less reliance on the synergy, even if only 3 secs.

But the likelihood of getting at least 1 Disintegration for 6 people in a Lightning Flood is roughly 84% now which is really good. Two targets chance to proc at least once is 46% over the full duration so I think most people sell this skill short.

Another tick would increase damage by 20% and increase the chance for a proc to almost 90% for 6 people so that could be too powerful.

Another thread mentioned an alternate Liquid Lightning causing targets to become "charged" like mini-lightning forms affecting those around them for a small DoT. This could force zergs apart or suffer extra damage. While this sounds like a great skill mechanism, it would have to balance considering all of the possible chances for Disintegration to proc.

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Thanks for the read if you made it this far

eserras7b16_ESO

I couldn't really read all but I agree that sorcerer needs to be worked out, specially the summoning part! there's many skills wich are not usable. And they need more resources.

Aziah

infracanisub17_ESO wrote: »

Rune prison being unblockable and requiring break free + roll dodge sounds too much Not sure what else to say because I don't have much experience with it.

To clarify, I was suggesting that the immobilize last for something like one second, so roll dodge wouldn't always be necessary. It would just give the same feel as a short-lived stun, without requiring the affected target to Break Free twice, or without allowing it to get out of both CCs with one Break Free. Point taken, though.

infracanisub17_ESO wrote: »

But the likelihood of getting at least 1 Disintegration for 6 people in a Lightning Flood is roughly 84% now which is really good. Two targets chance to proc at least once is 46% over the full duration so I think most people sell this skill short.

Another tick would increase damage by 20% and increase the chance for a proc to almost 90% for 6 people so that could be too powerful.

The Disintegration proc only applies to targets at low health, so I don't find its coaction with Lightning Splash to be that great. I could just pick out a susceptible target and Mages' Fury spam him for a similar effect.

I pretty much agree with everything else you said.

Nightreaver

With the nerf to pet healing I think I've also given up on any hope of making pets viable and would just as soon see that skill line replaced. Maybe replace the Twilight pet with a ranged ST direct heal to go along with the HOTs from the Resto staff. Replace the Clannfear pet with an ranged AOE root to help maintain distance between the caster and his targets.

@infracanisub17_ESO‌
I agree with most of what you say but would disagree with increasing the duration of the Lightning Flood. If it's doing enough damage to be considered a threat then 3 seconds is plenty of time to get out of it, especially considering how small the circle is. I would prefer to either increase the damage or add a Root to it.

Dymence

A lot of interesting ideas, though I like the idea about changing daedric curse with the morph into a DoT the most. Never did make sense to me, what exactly about placing a bomb on someone is a curse? A curse should deal damage over time, or at least apply a debuff effect. Not just place a dumb bomb that goes off after a few seconds.... Changing it into a DoT would also give sorcs their much needed DoT in their damage rotation.

Jitterbug

I play my Sorcerer (my main) with a stamina build and primarily dual wielding daggers. What I feel the class needs (for my own selfish purposes) is something to support this playstyle.
Critical Surge is awesome (albeit only for PvE), and so is Boundless Storm, but those are the only class skills I use out of 12 slots. I slot Negate for PvP because raid leads always ask for it, but otherwise it's all guild, world, or weapon skills.
I would love to have something like the stamina regen from Green Dragon Blood or Nightblade's Shadow. Or some crazy way to make Surge work in PvP.
I can't use Streak as I'm built for Stamina, and it eats up my whole Magicka bar.
I can get lucky and proc a Fragments off Boundless Storm and have a knockdown, but it doesn't hurt much since I'm built for Stamina.

So, the only usable class skill I have in PvP is Boundless Storm.
In PvE I have Critical Surge, and I guess Bound Armaments for the increased heavy attack damage.
On my DK I use one (1) non-class skill.
On my Templar I use 2.
On my Nightblade I use none.

I'm not an expert but it seems that for me to "play the way I want" my Sorcerer is in dire need of some utility.

edit: All that being said, for PvE the Sorcerer still feels awesome with Critical Surge and Boundless Storm up and spamming the Whirling Blades skill from Dual Wield, but I would love to have some more utility.