stimina build fix killing 2 birds w/ 1 stone (maybe?)

set44ub17_ESO1

I was thinking about eso, yet again.

I think I may have a solution for Stam builds and at the same time a fix for everyone warring light armor mainly.

stamina users have to use our stamina bar up to 5x (or 10x if you count both bars) more than a magic user.

Now I have sudjested maybe haveing melee weeps have huge cost reductions to these defence moves, but I guess it could be exploited pretty easily. Also thought having points spent in stamina increase at 15 per point like health maybe even 20....

But I thought today why don't they just add or increase a larger reduction cost to these defense moves, sprinting, sneaking for heavy and medium armor.

5 piece heavy
Something like
-50% to sprinting, blocking/bashing, and break free

5piece medium
-%50 sneaking, rolling, break free

Does anyone else think this could work or for see an issue with it?

Cody

apply the sprint bonus to medium armor. after all, medium armor is made for both speed AND stealth.

for heavy armor; apply a damage resistance passive2%/4% or so, for each piece equiped.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

Cody wrote: »

apply the sprint bonus to medium armor. after all, medium armor is made for both speed AND stealth.

for heavy armor; apply a damage resistance passive2%/4% or so, for each piece equiped.

Okay so I've been over the entire idea of giving heavy armor meaningful passive damage reduction and it's mathematically imbalanced due to the way multiple forms of damage reduction stack with each other. (at the moment you get ~ 40% DR in heavy armor - compared to 20% DR in light, so we'll say 600 damage instead of 800 from a 1k damage hit. This equates to 25% less damage from wearing heavy - odd how that a 20% difference in initial stats grants a 25% difference in end result - Now add a 60% block damage reduction to them both - Heavy takes 240, light takes 320, still a 25% difference. However - presuming 3.2k health (a staple amount for an end game tank) It would take 10 hits of 320 to kill the light, 13.3 to kill the heavy, suddenly that's jumped up to 33% more effective. When you then account for healing received boosts and cost of block reduction heavy is already LEAGUES ahead of the other two armors for mitigation. No need to add any more.

Perhaps changing the juggernaut passive to something along the lines of 'when using both your hands for melee weapons add 3/5% of armor rating from worn heavy armor as weapon damage.' This would be around 120ish in a full set of legendary v14 heavy and would account for the lack of resource sustain and crit that medium armour offers. But I digress!

To address OP, I like the cut of your jib -- buuuuuuuuttttt Zeni already has it covered, read up on the PTS notes for patch 1.5-1.51, channeled abilities are much more cost efficient and will be the main source of one's DPS as a stam build. I use a 1.2k DPS flurry orientated build and I can say that this is enough of a difference to have plenty of stamina left over to roll dodge block sprint and cc break in everything up to and including normal DSA - I would say everything and anything but I've yet to try vet DSA or SO just yet and I've heard that they're pretty roll intensive :P.

guybrushtb16_ESO

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

To address OP, I like the cut of your jib -- buuuuuuuuttttt Zeni already has it covered, read up on the PTS notes for patch 1.5-1.51, channeled abilities are much more cost efficient and will be the main source of one's DPS as a stam build. I use a 1.2k DPS flurry orientated build and I can say that this is enough of a difference to have plenty of stamina left over to roll dodge block sprint and cc break in everything up to and including normal DSA - I would say everything and anything but I've yet to try vet DSA or SO just yet and I've heard that they're pretty roll intensive :P.

Actually, having stam builds rely on channeled skills for their spammed skills in addition to their other downsides is pretty much the opposite of a fix IMO. You can't block while channeling, you can't dodge or you'll lose your cast and you can be interrupted as well, whereas magicka builds can happily hold block or dodge as needed while casting their instant skills.

I'll never understand how they decided that the spammable attacks for melee lines should be channeled skills slowing you down and lowering your defenses, when ranged casters get the same damage as ranged instants without any downsides.

Valiantknightjg

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

To address OP, I like the cut of your jib -- buuuuuuuuttttt Zeni already has it covered, read up on the PTS notes for patch 1.5-1.51, channeled abilities are much more cost efficient and will be the main source of one's DPS as a stam build. I use a 1.2k DPS flurry orientated build and I can say that this is enough of a difference to have plenty of stamina left over to roll dodge block sprint and cc break in everything up to and including normal DSA - I would say everything and anything but I've yet to try vet DSA or SO just yet and I've heard that they're pretty roll intensive :P.

Actually, having stam builds rely on channeled skills for their spammed skills in addition to their other downsides is pretty much the opposite of a fix IMO. You can't block while channeling, you can't dodge or you'll lose your cast and you can be interrupted as well, whereas magicka builds can happily hold block or dodge as needed while casting their instant skills.

I'll never understand how they decided that the spammable attacks for melee lines should be channeled skills slowing you down and lowering your defenses, when ranged casters get the same damage as ranged instants without any downsides.

I agree here, I'm currently running a DW setup and a 1h/shield setup for solo play and whenever I try and get into dungeons, normal or vet, I end up finding groups of mages who just instant cast AOE spells everywhere and we all die but they brag on the "leet 1337" dps they do. They need to make the game a bit more oriented on finding ways to stay alive instead of "do Xk DPS and win!" builds. Making stamina builds work more on channels sounds ok at first, as many are just 1-1.3seconds like Flurry. But we don't have the boost to the instant casts and DoTs/bleeds that we can do that we need to be able to keep DPS up for all the elitist who want to be in the top 5 for Trials at all times. I honestly think the Trials setup for endgame is a bad idea to begin with as you are just stroking the epeen of elitist who show up on a leaderboard. The game should be fun, enjoyable, a nice story and have that all tied into the endgame. Now I haven't been to Trials yet as my highest is just Vet 3 but it sounds more like there's less to do with that and more to do with "go into this area, kill these guys as fast as you can, and the ones at the top get more shinnies."

If you want to help Stamina based builds out with the DPS department, how about changing some of the Class skills that are melee and weapon based over to using Stamina instead of Magicka. Like Veiled Strike or Puncturing Strike. Sure there are Magic elements in these, they break armor and stun if stealth or the Templar uses Light Magic to make his weapon hit hard and knock the target back a few meters. But that's the biggest issue that is causing the whole trend of FULL 7/7 Light Armor and Destro/Resto staff builds being top DPS. They can use all Class Skills, get full buffs from it, and have 0 drawbacks as most are Instant Cast, they have their full Stamina bar for Block, Dodge, Break Free, and Sprinting. Making the Class skills mixed between Magicka and Stamina will give more fluidity between the characters and helps both in leveling up and in endgame. Buff up Stamina to use less since the resource is needed for other things.

As for the Heavy and Medium Armor skill passives, well I run for Heavy right now myself, I can get the Crit and Stealth from Medium but it doesn't work well with my current build, which I hope is shown on the Battlemaster's Corner as I submitted it the other day, and I like the setup for getting more Health regen and healing taken. The Weapon Damage buff is nice but it's not as nice as Medium's so people don't tend to like it. Maybe boost that a bit? Say make it 1.5% per piece, giving a total of 10.5% boost, still not as much as Medium's 5 piece Agility bonus, if I'm right in it's 12% at 2/2 rank as I've not had it in a long time.

All in all what Stamina builds need is more ease of use and taking some of the skills away from Magicka builds will even the playing field out that'll make for more diversity in builds other than 7/7 Light armor, roll Breton or High elf for Magicka passive, and run all Class and Mage guild skills with maybe a Staff skill as it's still Magicka based. Sorry it's just not even for how the Stamina based builds HAVE to balance Class Magicka based skills with Weapon Skills based on Stamina. If you run full Stamina you have an entire resource just sitting there doing nothing, whereas the full Magicka build still uses their Stamina for Block, Dodge, Break Free, and Sprinting.

Khivas_Carrick

Honestly, Uppercut should be instant cast since it technically does less damage than Flurry and Snipe, but somehow manages to still have a cast time and has to be used from melee range. Plus with it being instant cast it would have love and use for PvP.

It'd also quite possibly be overpowered too if it wasn't made to be less effective against players yet retain it's use in PvE.

But I'm not a Dev, so I'll stay out of this.

Vizier

Personally I'd like to see different classes get different utility out of each point spent on a specific stat. For instance DK = +15 hp health and +10 for magika/stamina. Sorcs = +15 for Magika and +10 for Health/Stam. Templar +12.5 Health or Magika per point spent in category and +10 for stamina. Nightblade +15 Stamina with +10 in health and magika.

Then give different utility for for armor types and glyphs.

Now I'm not saying the values above are what "should" be. But I am saying there should be some variances in the values received for points spent in attributes and the effectiveness of equipment, traits and enchantments based on either class or better yet the skill points spent within specific skill trees or both.

This would, IMO really push the gaps wide for creating different class types with alot of overlap to allow for a variety of builds and rolls. I think we'd see true tanks, true glass cannons and true utility builds with less Tanky -DPS builds .

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

To address OP, I like the cut of your jib -- buuuuuuuuttttt Zeni already has it covered, read up on the PTS notes for patch 1.5-1.51, channeled abilities are much more cost efficient and will be the main source of one's DPS as a stam build. I use a 1.2k DPS flurry orientated build and I can say that this is enough of a difference to have plenty of stamina left over to roll dodge block sprint and cc break in everything up to and including normal DSA - I would say everything and anything but I've yet to try vet DSA or SO just yet and I've heard that they're pretty roll intensive :P.

Actually, having stam builds rely on channeled skills for their spammed skills in addition to their other downsides is pretty much the opposite of a fix IMO. You can't block while channeling, you can't dodge or you'll lose your cast and you can be interrupted as well, whereas magicka builds can happily hold block or dodge as needed while casting their instant skills.

I'll never understand how they decided that the spammable attacks for melee lines should be channeled skills slowing you down and lowering your defenses, when ranged casters get the same damage as ranged instants without any downsides.

Block casting is something (as confirmed by Paul Sage) that will be - to a degree- removed so that players are indeed vulnerable while casting instant cast abilities.

Valiantknightjg wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

To address OP, I like the cut of your jib -- buuuuuuuuttttt Zeni already has it covered, read up on the PTS notes for patch 1.5-1.51, channeled abilities are much more cost efficient and will be the main source of one's DPS as a stam build. I use a 1.2k DPS flurry orientated build and I can say that this is enough of a difference to have plenty of stamina left over to roll dodge block sprint and cc break in everything up to and including normal DSA - I would say everything and anything but I've yet to try vet DSA or SO just yet and I've heard that they're pretty roll intensive :P.

Actually, having stam builds rely on channeled skills for their spammed skills in addition to their other downsides is pretty much the opposite of a fix IMO. You can't block while channeling, you can't dodge or you'll lose your cast and you can be interrupted as well, whereas magicka builds can happily hold block or dodge as needed while casting their instant skills.

I'll never understand how they decided that the spammable attacks for melee lines should be channeled skills slowing you down and lowering your defenses, when ranged casters get the same damage as ranged instants without any downsides.

I agree here, I'm currently running a DW setup and a 1h/shield setup for solo play and whenever I try and get into dungeons, normal or vet, I end up finding groups of mages who just instant cast AOE spells everywhere and we all die but they brag on the "leet 1337" dps they do. They need to make the game a bit more oriented on finding ways to stay alive instead of "do Xk DPS and win!" builds. Making stamina builds work more on channels sounds ok at first, as many are just 1-1.3seconds like Flurry. But we don't have the boost to the instant casts and DoTs/bleeds that we can do that we need to be able to keep DPS up for all the elitist who want to be in the top 5 for Trials at all times. I honestly think the Trials setup for endgame is a bad idea to begin with as you are just stroking the epeen of elitist who show up on a leaderboard. The game should be fun, enjoyable, a nice story and have that all tied into the endgame. Now I haven't been to Trials yet as my highest is just Vet 3 but it sounds more like there's less to do with that and more to do with "go into this area, kill these guys as fast as you can, and the ones at the top get more shinnies."

If you want to help Stamina based builds out with the DPS department, how about changing some of the Class skills that are melee and weapon based over to using Stamina instead of Magicka. Like Veiled Strike or Puncturing Strike. Sure there are Magic elements in these, they break armor and stun if stealth or the Templar uses Light Magic to make his weapon hit hard and knock the target back a few meters. But that's the biggest issue that is causing the whole trend of FULL 7/7 Light Armor and Destro/Resto staff builds being top DPS. They can use all Class Skills, get full buffs from it, and have 0 drawbacks as most are Instant Cast, they have their full Stamina bar for Block, Dodge, Break Free, and Sprinting. Making the Class skills mixed between Magicka and Stamina will give more fluidity between the characters and helps both in leveling up and in endgame. Buff up Stamina to use less since the resource is needed for other things.

As for the Heavy and Medium Armor skill passives, well I run for Heavy right now myself, I can get the Crit and Stealth from Medium but it doesn't work well with my current build, which I hope is shown on the Battlemaster's Corner as I submitted it the other day, and I like the setup for getting more Health regen and healing taken. The Weapon Damage buff is nice but it's not as nice as Medium's so people don't tend to like it. Maybe boost that a bit? Say make it 1.5% per piece, giving a total of 10.5% boost, still not as much as Medium's 5 piece Agility bonus, if I'm right in it's 12% at 2/2 rank as I've not had it in a long time.

All in all what Stamina builds need is more ease of use and taking some of the skills away from Magicka builds will even the playing field out that'll make for more diversity in builds other than 7/7 Light armor, roll Breton or High elf for Magicka passive, and run all Class and Mage guild skills with maybe a Staff skill as it's still Magicka based. Sorry it's just not even for how the Stamina based builds HAVE to balance Class Magicka based skills with Weapon Skills based on Stamina. If you run full Stamina you have an entire resource just sitting there doing nothing, whereas the full Magicka build still uses their Stamina for Block, Dodge, Break Free, and Sprinting.

What I agree with here is simply making some class skills weapon damage stamina, or ultimate style "whatever is highest" scaling- Think veiled strike, assassins blade, ambush, stonefist - all of the aedric spear line, backlash and summon shades.(ultimate style scaling). As for armour, medium is fine, absolutely and utterly fine. Heavy is geared towards tanking - but could have juggernaut changed to be much more powerful - something like a flat damage bonus to melee attacks that is based off of the armour bonus that you get directly from the armour you're wearing. Right now though Heavy armour is fine for tanking.

Solanum

Warriors will - Passive ability

This ability consumes 50%/100% magicka instead of stamina when breaking out of CC, dodge rolling or blocking.