Circuitous wrote: »Cast Time has nothing to do with the length of the animation.
You can cast Uppercut, tap block 0.8 seconds later, and it will still cast. This is one of the basic fundamentals of animation canceling. It's why the system seems so dumb. Tons of skills have animations that are significantly longer than their cast time.
The issue is not that they didn't shorten the casting time properly, it's that they forgot to shorten the animation to match, making it almost impossible to verify.
Edit: Here's a video demonstrating what I mean. Don't have a stopwatch handy. http://www.hitbox.tv/video/296858
demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »so now they just need to speed up the animation. That will probably have to wait for 1.7
They should reduce the cast time to 0.6 seconds and make the animation match that while they are at it.
Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Really now? Is there a video to this and may I see it's link please? lol
This looks a lot faster than on liveguybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »
CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »This looks a lot faster than on liveguybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »
ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »This looks a lot faster than on live
that video depicts a seriously fast uppercut animation but im not sure what buffs he was using to attain that speed and level of stamina regen lol.
guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »This looks a lot faster than on live
that video depicts a seriously fast uppercut animation but im not sure what buffs he was using to attain that speed and level of stamina regen lol.
Next time read patch notes or at least the op before posting maybe...
guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »Circuitous wrote: »Cast Time has nothing to do with the length of the animation.
You can cast Uppercut, tap block 0.8 seconds later, and it will still cast. This is one of the basic fundamentals of animation canceling. It's why the system seems so dumb. Tons of skills have animations that are significantly longer than their cast time.
The issue is not that they didn't shorten the casting time properly, it's that they forgot to shorten the animation to match, making it almost impossible to verify.
Edit: Here's a video demonstrating what I mean. Don't have a stopwatch handy. http://www.hitbox.tv/video/296858
Thanks for posting another video to illustrate. I do see what you mean about it, but I still think there is more to it than just the animation.
I tried the same again with both wrecking blow and flying dagger for comparison. Even with cancelling wrecking blow's animation, the next cast wouldn't happen any sooner, it's just that I got an extra light attack during the time the first wrecking blow's animation would have ran, but the interval between skills was still the same and it was bigger than 1s.
Testing with instants, this wasn't an issue with cancelling flying dagger; I could cancel into light attacks and still got about 1 cast per second for the skill.
The gcd for instant abilities seems to be 1 second, whether you cancel with light attacks or not, so I don't see why uppercut should have a longer aftercast than instants if it's cast time is below 1 gcd anyway.
Then again, animation cancelling is more prone to human error, and I never really tried weaving non instants like that so numbers are a little less consistent here, but I don't think it explains the difference completely.
ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »great info @jackyd i have been practicing my animation cancelling to max my dps but its gonna need some work lol.
and i did find that the morphs @guybrushtb16_ESO was using in his video were Momentum and Surge so just damage boosts, nothing that increases attack speed.
so i will have to see what i was doing wrong to be so much slower.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks, all. We're going to take a look and see if this is a legitimate issue, and will let you know what the scoop is as soon as we find out.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.
Hope that helps!
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.
Hope that helps!
khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.
Hope that helps!
I just love how clearly defined and intuitive all the game mechanics in ESO are...
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.
Hope that helps!
demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.
Hope that helps!
I just love how clearly defined and intuitive all the game mechanics in ESO are...
Oh I can sense your sarcasm sir.
But, I don't feel or see every skill with a cast time being like this. I dont seem to see sorcs having some after-cast-time effect with crystal shard. When it seems they want to cast them back to back they cast them in succession quite quickly without any delay after the cast. Confirm?
demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.
Hope that helps!
I just love how clearly defined and intuitive all the game mechanics in ESO are...
Oh I can sense your sarcasm sir.
But, I don't feel or see every skill with a cast time being like this. I dont seem to see sorcs having some after-cast-time effect with crystal shard. When it seems they want to cast them back to back they cast them in succession quite quickly without any delay after the cast. Confirm?
Thejollygreenone wrote: »
Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.
Thejollygreenone wrote: »
Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.
Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.
They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.
You don't need to count it out in your head, the Srendarr Add-On which display buffs/debuffs on self and enemy players also displays a castbar when you cast an ability with a cast time.
At 1st the bar fills up which equates to the cast time and afterwards it empties itself which equates to the rest of the animation time, simply hit bash when the bar start to empty.
This is not much different from castbar addons that were used in WOW in tandem with /SpellStopCasting macros to cancel spell casts to compensate for lag.
Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »i have noticed that back to back casting ignores that cool down, on this ability and many others, Even on the live build..
the end result has always been that its faster overall to just repeatedly cast abilities with cast times.
Thejollygreenone wrote: »
Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.
Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.
They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.
guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »i have noticed that back to back casting ignores that cool down, on this ability and many others, Even on the live build..
the end result has always been that its faster overall to just repeatedly cast abilities with cast times.
Look at the video. Back to back casting certainly does nothing like that at all, and it doesn't work like what you describe for any other ability.
Thejollygreenone wrote: »
Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.
Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.
They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.
If heavy is on lower priority, why is it a known technique to finish Flurry attacks with a heavy attack? It certainly seems to me that if I activate Flurry, and immediately hold left click for a heavy attack, that the 'recovery' animation of Flurry is replaced by the heavy attack itself.
Thejollygreenone wrote: »Thejollygreenone wrote: »
Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.
Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.
They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.
If heavy is on lower priority, why is it a known technique to finish Flurry attacks with a heavy attack? It certainly seems to me that if I activate Flurry, and immediately hold left click for a heavy attack, that the 'recovery' animation of Flurry is replaced by the heavy attack itself.
He does have a point though, I had conflicting background knowledge and personal experience which led me to write a post making myself look like an idiot
But back on subject, you also have a point.
It does indeed seem that heavy attacks clip wrecking blows (and other cast/channeled abilities') animation time perfectly, but indeed that's not how the priority system is known to work.
You clip light attacks with abilities because abilities are higher on the priority system. One would go ahead and assume that heavy attacks behave in the same way.
But then your question still remains, why does it feel so different for heavy attacks when you actually go try it?
Thejollygreenone wrote: »
Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.
Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.
They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.
If heavy is on lower priority, why is it a known technique to finish Flurry attacks with a heavy attack? It certainly seems to me that if I activate Flurry, and immediately hold left click for a heavy attack, that the 'recovery' animation of Flurry is replaced by the heavy attack itself.guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »i have noticed that back to back casting ignores that cool down, on this ability and many others, Even on the live build..
the end result has always been that its faster overall to just repeatedly cast abilities with cast times.
Look at the video. Back to back casting certainly does nothing like that at all, and it doesn't work like what you describe for any other ability.
I think it does work. Crystal Frag especially seems to go rapid fire when just spammed over and over again.