So what are you doing about Craglorn?

Crescent

All you see in zone chat is UC/Atro grind and AA/Trial spam.

Good luck trying to do any of the zone quests/objectives, finding a group for delves takes hours and it's not like these things are properly incentivized to make people want to run them.

Once 1.5 content hits it will be even worse to try to complete these quests since everybody will move on to the next zone/dungeon farm.

You should have never made this zone a swarm of elite mobs requiring groups to do STORY QUESTS, let alone gate skyshards behind some of them.

What is it with MMO's like Wildstar and this one where developers rush to embrace the failed designs that WoW discarded expansions ago?

Since when is establishing barriers to entry for content and people who didn't rush in the beginning enjoyable design? When people would rather do a repetitive, dull circuit of public bosses in UC over playing the actual content as intended to be progressed through, you have failed at making proper content.

Nox_Aeterna

Welcome to ESO , here they make sure to pick a crappy choice first so they can spend resources and time later fixing it later.

Ifthir_ESO

Crescent wrote: »

When people would rather do a repetitive, dull circuit of public bosses in UC over playing the actual content as intended to be progressed through, you have failed at making proper content.

I don't know that I agree. There will always be those players who find the content irrelevant and only want to level as fast as possible.

Crescent

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

When people would rather do a repetitive, dull circuit of public bosses in UC over playing the actual content as intended to be progressed through, you have failed at making proper content.

I don't know that I agree. There will always be those players who find the content irrelevant and only want to level as fast as possible.

They want to level as fast as possible because the only meaningful rewards are bunched up on the latest endgame content.

That's why I said properly incentivizing content, via skyshards and extra achievements and dye colors.

They could implement a mentor system so if you help someone with their quest, you get purple crafting mats on a bag with a chance for a legendary crafting mat.

So people will actually repeat the content and help people out.

This game has a terrible rewards system, making rewards and good drops extremely rare so people either farm trials or farm gold to craft legendary stuff. Every single content has a one time completion bonus and then it's irrelevant.

Doing all quests achievements and almanac, you barely get any dyes compared to other content, and as a reward you get a blue useless amulet for hundreds of hours of questing.

They need to stop making this game so unrewarding and inaccessible. If they don't want to reward people the very least they can do is tune Craglorn mobs for a solo experience.

Cody

I have not been to craglorn in...... heck... its been quite some time.

Craglorn is nothing but a complete failure. its a grindzone, almost everything is group required..... there are no Incentives to do the dang quests, phasing is annoying as heck.... its a colossal failure of a zone.

cant wait till ZOS stops spending time and money on it.

Valymer

How many threads like this are we going to see? Just curious

Crescent

Valymer wrote: »

How many threads like this are we going to see? Just curious

How many useless flippant replies like these? Just curious.

Valymer

Useless, dead horse threads attract useless replies. It's a law of the Internet.

Nazon_Katts

That we have to fall back to beating dead horses is due to the fact ZOS reacts much slower than required to very apparent issues. Just by ignoring it, it won't go away, as much as some might like it that way. It's going to lie in everybody's way, rotting and stinking, till ZOS finally comes around to dispose it. Till then, we'll keep beating.

Crescent

Valymer wrote: »

Useless, dead horse threads attract useless replies. It's a law of the Internet.

If it's useless, feel free to move on. Nobody put a gun to your head and told you to enter the thread lol

Minnesinger

Found other 2 players who wanted to quests in Crag. Been really fun. Occasionally, we have been recruiting players for help. The quests itself are really fun and I am a huge fan of their awesome looking locations and bosses.

Crescent

I did several of the quests today, too bad the reward for all of them are salvage greens. Zenimax sure love those stacks of 193278217293728 honing stones.

wafcatb14_ESO

Single player MMO is that way

---

> . thats the biggest thing wrong with this game , everyone wants a single player game and not a MMO

Crescent

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

Single player MMO is that way

---

> . thats the biggest thing wrong with this game , everyone wants a single player game and not a MMO

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

People don't mind grouping for content, but the problem is actually finding a group because you are separated by phasing and the rewards suck so everybody's just doing grinds instead.

jackyd

Crescent wrote: »

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

Single player MMO is that way

---

> . thats the biggest thing wrong with this game , everyone wants a single player game and not a MMO

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

People don't mind grouping for content, but the problem is actually finding a group because you are separated by phasing and the rewards suck so everybody's just doing grinds instead.

Craglorn Quests aren't phased, and the lower Craglorn requirement to have everyone on the same quest step to activate boss doors have been removed in 1.4 or will be with 1.5.

Some of the Quest dungeons like Shada's Tear and the Warrior School of Rani'Zha did provide the most challenging 4 man content upon their release.
Heck I wish there were more multi wing dungeons like Shada's sporting environmental hazards and really challenging boss fights.

And why the hell does everything need to have a carrot aka reward attached to it? For me the fun of running, figuring out and coordinating these encounters and in the end beating them is more than reward enough. If a cool item were to drop it would just be icing on the cake to the fun I had clearing the dungeon.

Have people become so shallow that all they care about in an MMORPG is the next carrot to run after?

Crescent

Rewards are just a means of funneling people across content. If you don't properly reward activities, you create ghost towns on content where the majority of players funnel to UC/Atro grinds just so they can get to trials, the only remotely rewarding endgame content.

I'm sorry you can't wrap your head around the importance of rewards and call people shallow for requiring feedback to their player inputs. Maybe you come from Mars or Jupiter, but the way normal humans work is through reinforcements.

Look at the VR zones. A player who is used from the 1-50 experience to completing every part of the map, suddenly has the rude awakening that VR zones are ghost towns, because everyone skips ahead to Craglorn grinds since all you get for bothering with VR zones is incredibly slower leveling and a string of green salvage items for your troubles.

It's very important for players who are completionists to have evenly populated content. New and returning players start getting into VR and finding out how irreparably behind they are, and since they didn't rush the content when it came out now it's incredibly difficult to get some group quests, delves, and achievements done.

wafcatb14_ESO

WTF cares really , game is a snooze , easist MMO i`ve ever played since 99 and most people whine about having to group at all . and keep wanting to dumb down the game more ,

this game has very bad grouping system, crappy lfg function too. at launch the stupid phased quest crap where you couldn`t help anyone unless you were both on the same step of the quest etc .

maybe it will get better after they do patches 5 and 6 and revamp vet lvls with champion point grind , reminds me of EQ AA system somewhat .

Yep I won`t do the stupid vet areas , and would rather grind mobs in Crag instead , if I have to suffer thru lvl 1-50 on their quest grind , if i can skip the other two factions 1-50 zones and lvl in crag by grinding mobs I will . but then the quests , and the story I don`t care about anyway .

Crescent

WTF are you doing playing an mmoRPG if you don't care about the story anyways lol. Action games have better combat systems and puzzle games have more demanding mechanisms.

AssaultLemming

Crescent wrote: »

WTF are you doing playing an mmoRPG if you don't care about the story anyways lol. Action games have better combat systems and puzzle games have more demanding mechanisms.

Personally I don't care about the story either, it's nice as a background but frankly tv, books and movies have much better storylines. Listening to voice actors drone on is not my idea of a good time. For me mmos are all about co-op play with others, questing, dungeons, raids and an option to solo if I'm in the mood and just want to kill mobs.

Craglorn seems fine in principle to me except I think grinding is too rewarding. I would like to see boss mob xp cut in half or more and much more xp given for questing or completing dungeons/delves and other content. Increasing the xp from individual mobs would be good perhaps to still allow some grinding in smaller groups, but the 12 people stacking on one boss mob is the worst type of game play. The coffer rewards that get sent in PvP should contain xp so that pvpers don't feel the need to grind.

The rewards for killing dungeon bosses and completing quests badly need upgrading (yay for undaunted at least). Delve/dungeon bosses should at minimum be dropping vr12/14 blue set pieces on a 24 hour timer. (One drop per boss per day, perhaps with a total daily cap to prevent saturation)

Crescent

Hell it should be purples. Nobody at the VR12+ level is really using gear below the epic level. By VR14 most have legendary crafted gear, so spending a couple of hours doing content only to receive salvage blues/greens is a really good way to get people to ignore that content.

wafcatb14_ESO

Personally I don't care about the story either, it's nice as a background but frankly tv, books and movies have much better storylines. Listening to voice actors drone on is not my idea of a good time. For me mmos are all about co-op play with others, questing, dungeons, raids and an option to solo if I'm in the mood and just want to kill mobs.

Pretty much this . I played EQ . 1999- 2004 , Daoc on an off 2002-2004 , Wow 2004-2006 , Warhammer 2008-2011 . Gw2 etc as well as Swtor for 2 months, Rift 2 months ,

While the story and quest are nice it`s not why I play a MMO , It`s for questing, raiding, and killing the other faction with Guildes that I enjoy , and when I feel like it i can solo a bit and Craft stuff for Guildies .

If I have to choose between Grinding the Vet 1-50 zones quest for DC and AD after I have taken 3 toons through all the 1-50 zones for EP and finished the main story and fighters/ Mage guilds quest or grinding from v1 - v 14 in Crag I`ll take Crag Grind .

This games grouping system is pretty bad , granted it`s getting better but it needs a lot of work .

game feels more like a single player rpg with Co-op elements than an actual MMO . To bad really I don`t play MMO for the solo player experince , can get that playing Skyrim . At least they are trying to fix it so it can only get better .