Official Discussion Thread for "Battlemaster’s Corner – Radiant Bastion"

ZOS_JasonLeavey

This is the official discussion thread for the web article "Battlemaster’s Corner – Radiant Bastion."

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Tarkit

Honestly one of the worst tank builds I've seen. No Blinding Flashes, Puncture instead of Inner Beast and Soul Assault? Oh dear. Defensive posture instead of absorb magicka? Oh man.

BaldrickFL

Or quite possibly another way to play, you know, which is sort of the whole reason for the skill system being the way it is. Different doesn't mean bad if the player knows what they're doing.

Khivas_Carrick

It's actually far from one of the worst tanking builds that I've seen. It's effective and works well in both PvE and PvP as I've seen this build in action before more than a few times to great effect.

Granted it isn't optimal, but as a Templar this man definitely got his bang for his buck.

Srugzal

Tarkit wrote: »

Honestly one of the worst tank builds I've seen. No Blinding Flashes, Puncture instead of Inner Beast and Soul Assault? Oh dear. Defensive posture instead of absorb magicka? Oh man.

So give us your tank build then, at the same level of detail. Let's compare the two.

Raiborn

Tarkit wrote: »

No Blinding Flashes, Puncture instead of Inner Beast and Soul Assault? Defensive posture instead of absorb magicka?

Hi Tarkit,

May I explain my thoughts in more detail then?

I haven't given Blinding Flashes too much thought for two main reasons: 1. it seems to have a fairly limited range and 2. I WANT them to hit me and do damage because that let's me get the most out of Blazing Shield.

I like the additional effects from Puncture particularly for boss fights, but you're right, I should take a look at using Inner Beast as well particularly for large pulls. I like being able to taunt from my large stamina pool with Puncture as I can taunt quite a number of foes and then hit Radiant Aura and get it back.

Haha. Yes, Soul Assault. In PvE, there are few situations where I won't use Nova instead anyway. Those situations are typically single target boss fights where Soul Assault is a great alternative. In PvP, like I noted in the build, I otherwise lack single target burst damage. Before Soul Assault, I found that tank on tank duels were extremely awkward as often neither of us could kill the other that day, and the one who had a friend showed up first won. Soul Assault gives me the edge in those fights and otherwise melts non-tanks. Alternatively, I can swap to Dawnbreaker for Daedric/Undead encounters.

I thought the same thing as you at first, but I leveled up using Absorb Magic and found it lackluster. I swapped to Defensive Stance more recently, and holy cow, I'm not switching back. The reflect cc's out the caster for 2 seconds, which is hilarious and prevents a good deal of damage. Also, I like to use this before the fight breaks out, so I don't have to think about hitting it until I see it proc. Using Absorb Magic preemptively pretty much wastes it as you're already at full health to start anyway, and using it mid fight is costly as you're basically trading stamina for health based on how much damage the projectile does. I found that trade wasn't worth it - I'd rather save the stamina for blocking/taunting or just hit an actual heal. Try Defensive Stance - especially in PvP. Those lone sorcs won't be nearly as scary

I have tried changing things around here and there, but I have found myself coming back to almost the same set of skills every time because of the wide range of utility I get out of them.

Cheers,
-Raiborn

MorHawk

Tarkit wrote: »

Honestly one of the worst tank builds I've seen. No Blinding Flashes, Puncture instead of Inner Beast and Soul Assault? Oh dear. Defensive posture instead of absorb magicka? Oh man.

Inner Beast vs Puncture? Er, I'll take the lack of range for the 40% hit to armor and spell resist, thanks. And you go ask @xsorusb14_ESO‌ about Posture vs absorb, and the comparative defensive benefits of healing vs stunning.

Besides, Absorb's getting a change in 1.5, where it heals for 15% of max health instead of the damage of the spell. So If you got 3k health, most you'll get is 450.

Tarkit

"Worst tank builds i've seen" is too harsh, but there's so much more room for optimisation. Fair play for giving a decent response and explanation but i still disagree big time.

I'm currently on the last phase of Veteran Arena - if i took this build there it'd be nearly impossible. With multiple adds (7+) hitting you throughout the fights and multiple more spawning in jumping on your healer, crawling over to them while blocking to taunt them with your already challenged stamina is not an option, your healer and DPS would be dead in that time.

You can't block while using Soul Assault so in that situation it'll kill you instantly, although you have mentioned you change to Nova in PvE so fair enough on that front.

With higher end stuff like vet arena or AA not using blinding flashes is like playing with a hand tied behind your back. you can effectively halve your incoming damage on adds and the limited AoE of it is negated by the fact that it pulses three times, so you can move. If you're doing your job well you should hopefully have all the adds on you anyway, so they'll be in range of the ability regardless.

Puncturing Strike may have a tasty debuff, but it's just impractical as i mentioned earlier. When you're tanking large amounts of adds or bosses that use multiple-hit moves on you, your stamina is worth its weight in gold and using this ability 7 odd times every 8 seconds per mob will drain you completely. Better to rely on having softcapped magicka regen pool as you need this for Blazing Shield anyway and it won't be depleted by blocking.

As for Absorb Magicka, while it'd be nice to reflect a spell on the first hit of combat in a tough situation that's the first second of a fight for a small amount of DD. It's much better to not have to rely on your healer to heal you if he/she goes down. Bosses can heal you for 1.5k and it's not a large drain on your stamina pool if you're using inner beast, and stamina should be used first and foremost for blocking and interrupting anyway.

Of course, each to their own - I just take some serious opposition to some of these decisions. Compared to a lot of tanks out there this build is great, but I'd be shocked if it played any more than decently at a high-end level of the game.

MorHawk

Tarkit wrote: »

As for Absorb Magicka, while it'd be nice to reflect a spell on the first hit of combat in a tough situation that's the first second of a fight for a small amount of DD. It's much better to not have to rely on your healer to heal you if he/she goes down. Bosses can heal you for 1.5k

I feel like I need to draw attention to the upcoming PTS change again, since you're clearly still banking on that big heal:

Absorb (Defensive Posture morph): This ability now...heals for 15% of your maximum health.

Tarkit

MorHawk wrote: »

Tarkit wrote: »

As for Absorb Magicka, while it'd be nice to reflect a spell on the first hit of combat in a tough situation that's the first second of a fight for a small amount of DD. It's much better to not have to rely on your healer to heal you if he/she goes down. Bosses can heal you for 1.5k

I feel like I need to draw attention to the upcoming PTS change again, since you're clearly still banking on that big heal:

Absorb (Defensive Posture morph): This ability now...heals for 15% of your maximum health.

While that may be the case in the future, it's not the case now. I live, like most other people, in the present.

MorHawk

Tarkit wrote: »

While that may be the case in the future, it's not the case now. I live, like most other people, in the present.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeX--2M6ESY

Tarkit

MorHawk wrote: »

Tarkit wrote: »

While that may be the case in the future, it's not the case now. I live, like most other people, in the present.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeX--2M6ESY

Haha.

Sure will.

Soraellion

"the build doesn't work in this very specific situation I came up with, as such it's bad".

Why are people always so... challenged like that?

Raiborn

I would like to provide two supplemental variations to my build. Since my build submission, I have attained VR14 and tanked for both DSR and AA.

Here is the variation I found worked well in Dragonstar Arena

And here is the variation I found worked well in Aetherian Archive

Notes:
The first bars of these builds are the same because they are untouchable. Compared to the original build I swapped out Invasion. For serious PvE dungeons, Invasion isn't quite so useful - you charge in to initiate out of healer range, why? Just run in . There are some places in DSR where I really wanted it (when pulled by the plants in round 3), so I worked it into the second bar. Having Radiant Aura on the first bar instead adds very tasty tanking sustain.

Regarding ultimates, Soul Assault was chosen for PvP, casual PvE groups, and solo play here and there. For DSR I picked Empowering Sweep to give me another sustain I can use frequently when in need. In AA, the healing ultimate can clutch for those damage bursts. Otherwise I actually slotted the werewolf ultimate on my first bar to speed up ult generation for Nova, which is the more popular choice.

The second bar for DSR takes in Tarkit's suggestions with Blinding Flashes and Inner Beast. Inner Beast is clutch in the rounds where you are pinned in certain locations. Good call. The second bar could even be sword and shield, which is why Invasion is there instead of a resto staff heal. The charge mobility in rounds where you're not pinned in a location is nice.

The AA second bar is pretty fine tuned to AA. Retreating Maneuver is for running through the fire/ice areas etc. Power of the Light is for added dps (it is a dps race after all). Blinding Flashes is helpful when the crap hits the fan. Inner Beast and Invasion really aren't needed. Healing Springs and Inner Light are purely for ultimate regen in between fights to get more Nova action. It's not terribly necessary, but Volcanic Rune or otherwise can be swapped back in after Nova is up.

In regards to gear, I think most tank relevant 5-sets would work. Personally, I am running 5 Whitestrake's Retribution (huge bubble when <30%hp on 15s cooldown) with mixed Infused and Indomitable and 2 Seducers (magicka regen) with 6 heavy and 1 light (light seducer's belt with divine). It's 6 because heavy looks better otherwise I'd consider 5/2. My rings are reduced spell costs with max magicka. I use the Blessing of the Potentates set for necklace, sword and shield. In Cyrodiil, I swap out Whitestrake's for the Bastion of the Heartland.

I hope these supplemental builds help any aspiring Templar Tanks looking to run these instances and more. The good tank learns from each fight and fine tunes their utility skills to counter each unique challenge.

*Disclaimer* - understand though, that there are rather complex mechanics involved in the endgame instances where sometimes it doesn't matter what skills you're using; if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you're toast

Cheers,
-Raiborn, The Radiant Bastion