Nerf block

Ilven

would use the skill that break the block and prevent the use for a few seconds to remove the immortal caster in light armor.

Cody

idk about straight up nerfing it....

all we need is more block penetration/block breaking skills.

Xsorus

Ilven wrote: »

would use the skill that break the block and prevent the use for a few seconds to remove the immortal caster in light armor.

The hilarious part is.. nerfing blocking will only make the caster in light armor the most powerful class in the game.

But most players just can't see past their own failings to see why that is.

GwaynLoki

I don't think people asking for a nerf to block have realised the consequences in a game with spammable cc and high dmg abilities. Ofc this sounds awesome for all the glass cannons out there. Hit the guy as hard as you can and when he blocks, use this one skill, then keep hitting him until he dies.

Sharee

All that is needed is to give block an opportunity cost. If you block, it means you are focusing on defense, and thus your offense has to suffer, instead of having the best of both worlds like it is now.

Itse90210

All that need to do is to make you put down your block for second when you cast or attack while holding it, so you block or attack, not both

guybrushtb16_ESO

Sharee wrote: »

All that is needed is to give block an opportunity cost. If you block, it means you are focusing on defense, and thus your offense has to suffer, instead of having the best of both worlds like it is now.

This. It's less about straight up nerfing block, but most people seem to agree that "always hold block until either you or the other guy are dead" isn't a very interesting game mechanic.

IMO, blocking should as a rule of thumb be reserved for the more dangerous attacks, unless you are heavily specced into it (i.e. heavy armor + shield), which should allow more generous use as well as more mitigation.

WraithAzraiel

They're reevaluating the practicality of being able to use abilities whilst blocking.

That's the main problem right? Guy A blocks, reducing incoming damage, while throwing out massive amounts of damage from behind his damage mitigation button.

ozmorgudduth

Title should say: No casting while blocking, please. Block is fine, permablock while casting is not, and 360 degrees blocking is not. There is a system in place for backstabbing detection, I'm sure it's easy to make it 180 degrees...

But looking at how many things have been broken with .4 it might take 6 months to get the game back to the state it was in a month ago with all the new content breaking lots of stuff unrelated to that content...

Domander

ozmorgudduth wrote: »

Title should say: No casting while blocking, please. Block is fine, permablock while casting is not, and 360 degrees blocking is not. There is a system in place for backstabbing detection, I'm sure it's easy to make it 180 degrees...

But looking at how many things have been broken with .4 it might take 6 months to get the game back to the state it was in a month ago with all the new content breaking lots of stuff unrelated to that content...

block should not be 180.... would not be a good change

Domander

These threads always bring so many clueless posters. Good players block a lot of damage, good players don't block all the time.

OtarTheMad

Why do people want to nerf block? lol... I mean seriously why don't we just eliminate tanks once and for all. Let's just forget for a moment that heavy armor wearing tanks are as easily found these days as a living Dwemer and now people want to nerf block because some people constantly use it? You have to think of the problems nerfing block would cause in the PvE area against NPC's and high level bosses with CCs and high damage. Maybe you can make it where blocking is less effective if someone attacks from behind... or basically that if you are attacked from behind blocking won't help... idk... but I do not trust ZOS to nerf this in a way that still makes it work for those who still try to tank.

I think what will be a game changer is when they put in the Dark Brotherhood cause I will guess/speculate that some of the skills introduced (if a new skill line is intro'd) it will have some counters to blocking since they are assassins who typically attack from behind and/or in the shadows... just a guess though.

ozmorgudduth

Domander wrote: »

ozmorgudduth wrote: »

Title should say: No casting while blocking, please. Block is fine, permablock while casting is not, and 360 degrees blocking is not. There is a system in place for backstabbing detection, I'm sure it's easy to make it 180 degrees...

But looking at how many things have been broken with .4 it might take 6 months to get the game back to the state it was in a month ago with all the new content breaking lots of stuff unrelated to that content...

block should not be 180.... would not be a good change

Why would it be bad? Elaborate on this. I would like to know the reason, honestly.
I can't think of anything bad about it. It opens up more possibilities for how importnant positioning during fight is.

Still the main problem is dps while blocking, this should be only allowed with shield tree, any other setup should not allow to put out damage while standing in one spot permablocking and casting...

Jacques Berge

My current issues with block and possible fixes.

1. Blocking, regardless the of the gear equipped and regardless of the attack, mitigation is always at least %50. This makes it so each weapon has the relative same defensive abilities, dispite offensive abilities.

Possible fix. Change the mitigation for each item, S/B should have base %50 mitigation for all attack types (Melee, spell projectile, weapon projectiles. DW and 2Hdr gains %25 mitigation from all attack types. Staves get %50 mitgation from spell projectiles, %25 from Melee and no mitgation from physical projectiles. Bows get %25 mitigation from Melee and no mitigation for any ranged, but a %20 dodge rating against them while blocking... When blocking an attack that causes cc knock back for 1 sec if you have %25 mit against that attack.

2. You can currently block, and attack at the same time through animation canceling.

I say, allow it but have the strength of all powers reduced by %75 when cast while blocking... This will allow for tanks to still taunt creature in combat while blocking an enable aoes and dots cast while not blocking to maintain there usefulness but will remove the effectiveness of block spamming whip, swallow soul, impulse, crushing shock etc in pvp.

3. Currently, you can block 360 degrees. It's an MMO, this should be allowed.

However, I do not believe you should have any ability to block a stealthed, undetected player, unless they are currently revealed through Magelight, detect pot, piercing mark. I feel this should apply only to stealth, not invisbility, however I do feel those attack should at max only be mitigated by 25% even with shield, unless Magelight or mark is being used, detect pots shouldn't work on cloak, but, if this was implemented I'd probably change my mind.

These are purely my suggestions on what could be done to make our weapon choices and fighting styles feel more deliberate, and also play to each weapons strength and weakness. I'm sure some may disagree. I look forward to reading constructive suggestions, tweaks, and disagreements

Merlin13KAGL

Was all for this at first...thought it was a skill to block nerfing.

Second, you can't block and cast. An instant cast, by definition, takes zero time, then you resume your previous activity, in this case - blocking. I think what you're looking for is changing these to be non-instant skills - providing that window to get damage in.

Remove 360 block - block is for front, armor and class shield is for everything else.

However, if you're going to go there, 3rd person view should equally be 180 degrees.

Backstab should do more damage, because it's a backstab. If you can block 360 degrees or see 360 degrees, kinda defeats some of the purpose.

Stannum

Three changes should be done to do PvP more realistic and more "tactical"
1. 180deg block
2. block chance and mitigation different for different weapon and types of attacks (physical\magical)
e.g. 1h&b = phys 90%chance 70% mitigation, magical 50%chance 30% mitigation
DW = phys 50%chance 50%mitigation, magical 20% chance 20% mitigation
staffs = phys 20%chance 20% mitigation, magical 50%chance 50%mitigation.
3. Enemy players should not be transparent for movment (in any case or while blocking) so if you stand phalanx you can stop zergball and you also keep your backs

Blackmoon777

1 question : blocking consume stamina but u can still block even with no stamina left, with no stamina at all i am still mitgating at last 50% of dmg, it is at it shoud be? or bug??? so casters who only spent stamina for block are alwayes mitgating 50% of dmg...


when u got not enough stamina u shouldnt be able to block.

Jacques Berge

Blackmoon777 wrote: »

1 question : blocking consume stamina but u can still block even with no stamina left, with no stamina at all i am still mitgating at last 50% of dmg, it is at it shoud be? or bug??? so casters who only spent stamina for block are alwayes mitgating 50% of dmg...


when u got not enough stamina u shouldnt be able to block.

Agreed... However, If you block an attack that reduces your stam to zero and has a cc effect, said cc effect procs and is more or less unbreakable until the player regains the 400 or so stam required for cc break. Which, for your average spell caster is somewhere around 10-12 seconds. Resources regen at [stat#] every 2 seconds... for most spell casters this number is somewhere around 60 or so, dependent on the exact build. Needless to say... most stuns are between 2-5 seconds... which is a lot of time to pour on unopposed dps.

Khivas_Carrick

Sharee wrote: »

All that is needed is to give block an opportunity cost. If you block, it means you are focusing on defense, and thus your offense has to suffer, instead of having the best of both worlds like it is now.

This pretty much sums up the issue. Blocking can stay as is, just certain things should mitigate more and other things less, and you should not be able to use spells, or at least certain spells of certain types while blocking.

It's those things that can make this game unfair for many.

Cody

Domander wrote: »

These threads always bring so many clueless posters. Good players block a lot of damage, good players don't block all the time.

every play style should have its up and downs, blocking and spamming have few-none.

now, I myself believe in 180 degree blocking to a certain extent:

players with a shield should be able to block 360. they are tanks, if they cant block half of the crap thrown at them, they cant be good tanks.


but staves and greatswords and bows should not have 360 degree blocking. leave that for the players that are actually tanks.

I also believe attacks from stealth should be unblockable... at least to a certain extent.

Dont Shoot

I think the problem is World of Warcraft, skill in that game was playing 90 hours a week and getting all the bells and wistles on your gear then standing their and pressing 1 2 3 4 5 until someones lack of gear did them in.

People want that unfair advantage and assume anyone who masterfully beats the living *** out of them must be nerfed. Nerfing is what ruined WoW. People feeling entitled to get all the best gear and beat all the best raids regardless of ability is what ruined WoW. It can ruin ESO lets hope they can make enough money to protect their game from that.

Still_Mind

360 blocking is necessary while there's no player collision in PvP.

Jacques Berge

Agreed... And player collision won't happen. They said it would Be far too taxing in the system and the servers.

Cody

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Agreed... And player collision won't happen. They said it would Be far too taxing in the system and the servers.

they don't need to put in player collision at all.... these servers cant even handle the battles it wad advertised for to begin with. lord help us if we had collision with it.

Koensol

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ilven wrote: »

would use the skill that break the block and prevent the use for a few seconds to remove the immortal caster in light armor.

The hilarious part is.. nerfing blocking will only make the caster in light armor the most powerful class in the game.

But most players just can't see past their own failings to see why that is.

Exactly! Nerfing block will nerf the melee tanks in pvp. Blocking is the only valid way to really tank/mitigate raw damage in eso (aside from shield stacking).

Zsymon

Awesome suggestions, I really hope ZOS is reading this.

Jacques Berge wrote: »

My current issues with block and possible fixes.

1. Blocking, regardless the of the gear equipped and regardless of the attack, mitigation is always at least %50. This makes it so each weapon has the relative same defensive abilities, dispite offensive abilities.

Possible fix. Change the mitigation for each item, S/B should have base %50 mitigation for all attack types (Melee, spell projectile, weapon projectiles. DW and 2Hdr gains %25 mitigation from all attack types. Staves get %50 mitgation from spell projectiles, %25 from Melee and no mitgation from physical projectiles. Bows get %25 mitigation from Melee and no mitigation for any ranged, but a %20 dodge rating against them while blocking... When blocking an attack that causes cc knock back for 1 sec if you have %25 mit against that attack.

2. You can currently block, and attack at the same time through animation canceling.

I say, allow it but have the strength of all powers reduced by %75 when cast while blocking... This will allow for tanks to still taunt creature in combat while blocking an enable aoes and dots cast while not blocking to maintain there usefulness but will remove the effectiveness of block spamming whip, swallow soul, impulse, crushing shock etc in pvp.

3. Currently, you can block 360 degrees. It's an MMO, this should be allowed.

However, I do not believe you should have any ability to block a stealthed, undetected player, unless they are currently revealed through Magelight, detect pot, piercing mark. I feel this should apply only to stealth, not invisbility, however I do feel those attack should at max only be mitigated by 25% even with shield, unless Magelight or mark is being used, detect pots shouldn't work on cloak, but, if this was implemented I'd probably change my mind.

These are purely my suggestions on what could be done to make our weapon choices and fighting styles feel more deliberate, and also play to each weapons strength and weakness. I'm sure some may disagree. I look forward to reading constructive suggestions, tweaks, and disagreements

Stannum

Koensol wrote: »

Exactly! Nerfing block will nerf the melee tanks in pvp. Blocking is the only valid way to really tank/mitigate raw damage in eso (aside from shield stacking).

First of all it would nerf magika builds, as they don't need stamina for attack. They just hold block and spam their class\staff abilities while being immune to stun and mitigating dmg.
Melee tank holding block all the time would be out of stamina very soon so they could not use their weapon skills.

Kosar

man oh man... ok first of all they said the animation cancelling is coming finally didn't they? this will end a vast majority of the problems around this.

just because something is insta-cast, does NOT mean its animation also happens instantly. this is the deal-breaker for most players is that there are some characters who you NEVER see casting and then you are dead. (add in culling which is the only worse idea than animation canceling and its nonsense pvp currently.) people want to stop seeing this happen because it is far too often this game doesn't feel like playing a game. the more animations removed from this game, whether it is player based canceling or programmed culling, and you have the elimination of the vast majority of what makes video games so amazing: the visual aspect.

a game this beautiful was meant to be seen but the majority of mechanics--player and coding--remove it, so what is the point? we could all go play table top games and card games if we didn't care about the animations...

2nd the actual block doesn't need to be changed. you're fighting a lame nothing but block guy? block and use light attacks until all of both your stamina is gone and then you can play the game you are trying to play but asking for nerfs to accomplish...except in my scenario, you aren't ruining the game for the absolute ton of us who are NOT exploiting block mechanics. thank you.

HeroOfNone

I do believe we need some blocking changes to give more benefit to skilled players.

1. Position based blocking. They need to improve player movement/placement with this, but I agree that there should be a penalty for trying to block with the enemy behind or to your side. I'd argue there should even be zone based blocking, where a 60 degree arc in front of you offers the most mitigation, behind you offers 50% less, and to the sides you have about 10-20% less. In addition, blocking from these other angles would take more stamina, and getting hit from behind would allow CC to hit.
2. Less stamina drain for a well timed block. If someone puts up a shield right before and arrow hits or within 3 seconds, it should drain less than the person that just hits block the entire time, rewarding them a little. Constantly lifting and lowering however would negate this benefit, as lowering gives maybe a half a second debuff as if you held it up for a long period. May be an issue with some lag, but doable with a long enough window.
3. CC effects to break through block if it's up, or to specifically drain stamina from blocking
4. CC effects have a high chance to proc when folks are low on stamina, rather than negating them regardless of stamina.
5. Abilities to swap block to take from magicka instead of stamina. This would have to be a one-time passive or a toggle be skill like magelight.

Vizier

I'd like to see an introduction of timed blocking for those not using a shield, but have massive penalty to attack while blocking with a shield. So two different types of blocking.

You can't hide behind a stick but you can take shelter behind a shield. Blocking with a weapon is less static and should require some timing in meeting an attack force on force. A shield is more static. Not entirely static but much more static and for the purposes of the game a player should be able to hold it up for as long as they like but once again with attack, damage and movement penalties attached to that circumstance.

Asgari

Use caltrops then if you cant compete with someone blocking. Many tools at your disposal. Less nerf requests, more L2P