Add a Crit resist passive to heavy armor

Xsorus

Was thinking about this tonight, What if Heavy armor had innate crit resist similar to the impenetrable trait you can get. Say half of what you normally get for adding the trait (so so if ya had 7 pieces of heavy for example you'd get 350 crit resist rating if you was wearing legendary armor)

This would allow heavy armor builds to invest in other Traits that Medium Armor and Light Armor might not be able to invest into.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

I'm ok with your suggestion if in return they reduce the amount of crit chance reduction you can get from the impenetrable trait.

Still_Mind

I'm all for heavy armour buffs... and heavily against Impenetrable nerfs. As long as we're having 0.5 sec kills and 80% crit chance builds, Impenetrable is absolutely needed.

Skizer78

I think that you have a good suggestion for adding critical resistance to the heavy armor passive list. Although heavy armor still has a long way before I decide to pick it back up, that would be a step in the right direction. Since we are talking about crit, I think it is ridiculous the amount of critical chance percentage that people have acheived and I am surprised that there is no softcap in place on that statistic. If all else create a softcap to limit critical chance and add critical damage bonuses to increase amount of crit rather then the chance to crit. It should be near impossible for anyone to crit more than two out of five without having to sacrifice other statistics especailly in PvP.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Still_Mind wrote: »

I'm all for heavy armour buffs... and heavily against Impenetrable nerfs. As long as we're having 0.5 sec kills and 80% crit chance builds, Impenetrable is absolutely needed.

Your impenetrable still won't save you from a gank build, because with their high crit chance they will get trough your impenetrable bonus on their initial sneak attack most of the times...

The only things that may save you from gank builds are health and armour, impenetrable just makes bunker builds even more unkillable and it also makes some skills completely unviable for PvP (Critical Surge, for instance).

Still_Mind

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Still_Mind wrote: »

I'm all for heavy armour buffs... and heavily against Impenetrable nerfs. As long as we're having 0.5 sec kills and 80% crit chance builds, Impenetrable is absolutely needed.

Your impenetrable still won't save you from a gank build, because with their high crit chance they will get trough your impenetrable bonus on their initial sneak attack most of the times...

The only things that may save you from gank builds are health and armour, impenetrable just makes bunker builds even more unkillable and it also makes some skills completely unviable for PvP (Critical Surge, for instance).

And I'm pretty comfortable with that, actually. Gank builds are just that - they rely on the initial alpha strike, and usually are somewhat useless outside the initial sneak attack. As for crits, impen cuts 80+ crit chance to more favourable values. As long as you don't get in-combat 2-shots, it's good.

Imagine Critical Surge in PvP with pve critical chance. I wouldn't want to come across that. If someone wants to make use of crit surge, they can go with a full crit build. You can still get about 20% crit chance, even against full Impen targets, if you focus on crit.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Still_Mind wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Still_Mind wrote: »

I'm all for heavy armour buffs... and heavily against Impenetrable nerfs. As long as we're having 0.5 sec kills and 80% crit chance builds, Impenetrable is absolutely needed.

Your impenetrable still won't save you from a gank build, because with their high crit chance they will get trough your impenetrable bonus on their initial sneak attack most of the times...

The only things that may save you from gank builds are health and armour, impenetrable just makes bunker builds even more unkillable and it also makes some skills completely unviable for PvP (Critical Surge, for instance).

And I'm pretty comfortable with that, actually. Gank builds are just that - they rely on the initial alpha strike, and usually are somewhat useless outside the initial sneak attack. As for crits, impen cuts 80+ crit chance to more favourable values. As long as you don't get in-combat 2-shots, it's good.

Imagine Critical Surge in PvP with pve critical chance. I wouldn't want to come across that. If someone wants to make use of crit surge, they can go with a full crit build. You can still get about 20% crit chance, even against full Impen targets, if you focus on crit.

Critical Surge is an active combat heal and it has every weakness related to it. Impenetrable, Armour/Spellresist, CC, Shields, Blocking, Healing debuffs would still contribute greatly at reducing its effect.

While I respect your oppinion, I find a bit contradicting you are fine with gank builds killing people under 0,5sec but you also think it isn't ok while in combat?

I supposed I'll just use some Maths to show that the extra damage from crits is would barely affect surviability in PvP.

Lets say you are a DK with 3K health, 30% armour/spell mitigation and 700 Impenetrable value (70% crit reduction).

I'll just use my current value with snipe which are :
- 792 dmg while hiden
- 702 dmg while detected

Now lets use those values with 50% critical chance on my bow while :
a) Impenetrable reduces critical chances
Hit 1 = 80% chances [(792 : 100 x 70) x 1.605] x 2 = 1780 +-
20% chances (792 : 100 x 70) x 2 = 1109 +-

Hit 2,3,4,... = 100% chance 702 : 100 x 70 = 491 +-

Now lets add up the damage until you loose 3K health :

3000 > 1220 > 729 > 238 > -235 (Dead) 4 hits

b) Impenetrable reduces critical damage by the same value
Hit 1 = 100% chances [[(792 : 100 x 70) x 1] + [(792 : 100 x 70) x 0.605] : 100 x 30] x 2 = 1310 +-

Hit 2,3,4,... = 50% chance (702 : 100 x 70) x 1 + [(702 : 100 x 70) x 0.605] : 100 x 30 = 580 +-
50% chance (702 : 100 x 70) x 1 = 491 +-

Now lets add up the damage again until you loose 3K health :

12.5% Chance 3000 > 1690 > 1110 > 530 > -50 (Dead) 4 hits

87,5% Chance to die in 5 hits instead of 4.

Having 70% dmg reduction from crits turns an ennemy base critical damage rating from 1.50 to 1.15.

So this change would result into 23,333...% less damage from alpha strikes and an 0.15% dmg/crit% in combat DpS increase from ennemies. So a guy with 80% critical chance has a 12% dmg increase against someone with 700 impenetrable instead of 40% (without any critical damage modifiers).

So the question remains, are you willing to deny extra build diversity for a minor 0%-15% Dps modifier against yourself?

Still_Mind

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Still_Mind wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Still_Mind wrote: »

I'm all for heavy armour buffs... and heavily against Impenetrable nerfs. As long as we're having 0.5 sec kills and 80% crit chance builds, Impenetrable is absolutely needed.

Your impenetrable still won't save you from a gank build, because with their high crit chance they will get trough your impenetrable bonus on their initial sneak attack most of the times...

The only things that may save you from gank builds are health and armour, impenetrable just makes bunker builds even more unkillable and it also makes some skills completely unviable for PvP (Critical Surge, for instance).

And I'm pretty comfortable with that, actually. Gank builds are just that - they rely on the initial alpha strike, and usually are somewhat useless outside the initial sneak attack. As for crits, impen cuts 80+ crit chance to more favourable values. As long as you don't get in-combat 2-shots, it's good.

Imagine Critical Surge in PvP with pve critical chance. I wouldn't want to come across that. If someone wants to make use of crit surge, they can go with a full crit build. You can still get about 20% crit chance, even against full Impen targets, if you focus on crit.

Critical Surge is an active combat heal and it has every weakness related to it. Impenetrable, Armour/Spellresist, CC, Shields, Blocking, Healing debuffs would still contribute greatly at reducing its effect.

While I respect your oppinion, I find a bit contradicting you are fine with gank builds killing people under 0,5sec but you also think it isn't ok while in combat?

I supposed I'll just use some Maths to show that the extra damage from crits is would barely affect surviability in PvP.

Lets say you are a DK with 3K health, 30% armour/spell mitigation and 700 Impenetrable value (70% crit reduction).

I'll just use my current value with snipe which are :
- 792 dmg while hiden
- 702 dmg while detected

Now lets use those values with 50% critical chance on my bow while :
a) Impenetrable reduces critical chances
Hit 1 = 80% chances [(792 : 100 x 70) x 1.605] x 2 = 1780 +-
20% chances (792 : 100 x 70) x 2 = 1109 +-

Hit 2,3,4,... = 100% chance 702 : 100 x 70 = 491 +-

Now lets add up the damage until you loose 3K health :

3000 > 1220 > 729 > 238 > -235 (Dead) 4 hits

b) Impenetrable reduces critical damage by the same value
Hit 1 = 100% chances [[(792 : 100 x 70) x 1] + [(792 : 100 x 70) x 0.605] : 100 x 30] x 2 = 1310 +-

Hit 2,3,4,... = 50% chance (702 : 100 x 70) x 1 + [(702 : 100 x 70) x 0.605] : 100 x 30 = 580 +-
50% chance (702 : 100 x 70) x 1 = 491 +-

Now lets add up the damage again until you loose 3K health :

12.5% Chance 3000 > 1690 > 1110 > 530 > -50 (Dead) 4 hits

87,5% Chance to die in 5 hits instead of 4.

Having 70% dmg reduction from crits turns an ennemy base critical damage rating from 1.50 to 1.15.

So this change would result into 23,333...% less damage from alpha strikes and an 0.15% dmg/crit% in combat DpS increase from ennemies. So a guy with 80% critical chance has a 12% dmg increase against someone with 700 impenetrable instead of 40% (without any critical damage modifiers).

So the question remains, are you willing to deny extra build diversity for a minor 0%-15% Dps modifier against yourself?

I'm willing to deny any diversity that may further decrease the already-short TTK.

However, I'm not against rebalancing Impenetrable, making it lower incoming critical damage, instead of decreasing critical chance, parallel with the rebalancing of the critical stat - it definitely needs soft and hard caps, and all modifiers like Magelight need to be decreased. Naturally melee and spell crits for class skills need to be streamlined, as well.