The Nirnhorne Quandry

Wreuntzylla

Right now, the best armor sets are not 8 trait sets. For example, Seducer is 3 traits. If I understand the mechanics of the new trait correctly, it isn't locked by the amount of traits you have. In other words, if you are a brand new crafter, you can research Nirnhorne first.

So... I run and get skillpoints and wait 30 days while my crafters research the ninth trait in 3 items per line. Or... I level a new crafter to 40 and research a few traits per item, can be done in under a week for every item.

The bigger picture is it seems like you are penalized for being a loyal ESO crafter. That guy who dabbled in crafting and leveled your crafts but didn't really research much now has a golden opportunity to make scads of gold (assuming sharpened gets fixed soon) by jumping ahead of all the loyal ESO master crafters. The master crafters have to jump through enormous hoops to even be only slightly behind.

Is this correct or am I missing something here?

inf.toniceb17_ESO

1. make a new toon
2. research nirnhoned
3. profit, literally.

hammer_fella

I am a max crafter in all disciplines. I have been crafting since early release. I was among the first to get a Nirnhoned trait in AD.

So, how exactly did dedicated crafters get punished I am wondering?

And you suggest there is great profit in this? Hardly. There is a HUGE cost in obtaining Nirncrux yet no one is willing to pay more than a couple thousand for the traits, thinking the market will make them as cheap as Jade or Diamonds in a month's time. Despite being the exact picture of the pioneer craftsman you have described, I've yet to see any reward for this accomplishment.

EDIT: the information in this post no longer reflects the current game economy

Faded_Architecture

The problem here is the way they've set up the research system. It was, I suppose, intended to keep your character from getting all of the traits quickly so you'd have to pick and choose which ones were important to you and just focus on those. The system failed, however, when they released a new trait. Their compromise was to cap research at 30 days, but that's a small consolation to those of us who already have most or all of the previous traits researched. Yes, it sucks, but I doubt they're going to make any drastic changes to the research system, so we'll either have to start a new crafter or wait a couple months to finish researching the new trait.

Wreuntzylla

All they have to do is put an 8 trait requirement before researching nirn - fixed...

You profit by making VR14 seducer spell resist sets for PvP...

Granted, some of that depends on if the sharpened trait is so bugged that the spell resist doesn't matter, but that aside, I have multiple guildies in the que for spell resist armor.

I don't actually sell to others, I am just annoyed that in order to be on top of the new meta, I have a large workload in front of me that is essentially a penalty to master crafters. Those who do sell on the open market should be even more annoyed.

Rosveen

hammer_fella wrote: »

I am a max crafter in all disciplines. I have been crafting since early release. I was among the first to get a Nirnhoned trait in AD.

You have the items, but you can't craft them yet. Not for another month. A brand new character will craft Nirnhoned items after just 6 hours.

hammer_fella

Rosveen wrote: »

hammer_fella wrote: »

I am a max crafter in all disciplines. I have been crafting since early release. I was among the first to get a Nirnhoned trait in AD.

You have the items, but you can't craft them yet. Not for another month. A brand new character will craft Nirnhoned items after just 6 hours.

I am crafting them first on my alt to sell, then my main can do the slow slog to all 9 traits after.

Tarukmockto

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

All they have to do is put an 8 trait requirement before researching nirn - fixed... <snip>

I like this idea. That way someone can't jump the queue by creating a new Nirnhorne crafting toon. You want it, you have to earn it by doing all the other 8 traits first.

jvh808

I have 8/9 traits researched in 6/6 Woodworking 7/7 Medium armor and 7/7 in Blacksmith weaponry completed and between 5 and 6 traits researched in both Light and Heavy armors on a single character. I also have every skill at 50, including Alchemy, Enchanting and Provisioning. I kept all 3 researching slots open in all 3 trades and saved 3 skill points to spec 4/4 in all 3 in preparation. My issue is that I have yet to get 1 single nirnhoned trained item to begin research and I have been questing like a madman. This is where they come from is my understanding of what the patch notes read, or am I mistaken?

There is one more issue I have and this one comes down to the player base and their profiteering. I found 1 person who claimed to have near a dozen equipment items in game. Seeing as the average research sale is 400-600 gold I assumed my offer of 1 yellow upgrade of his choice per gear was more than a fair offer. But, I should have known it was anything but the case. This individual laughed at me and demanding 50,000 per item to research, which is absolutely absurd.

The only people who do this I have noticed are the players who do absolutely no crafting themselves. They are taking advantage of the crafters who barely make any profit at all on their crafts, if at all. There are only 2 reasons I can think of for this effect which Zenimax is the cause of; that they are either selling to gold farmers or they are flat out greedy scumbags who hold too high of a value on digital currency. Now, I know this will get ridiculed and bashed on by people because they don't like what I ams saying, and frankly I don't care, because the more it happens, the more it proves to me how true these it really is...

This is the "community" Zenimax has bolstered and rewarded.

hammer_fella

jvh808 wrote: »

I have 8/9 traits researched in 6/6 Woodworking 7/7 Medium armor and 7/7 in Blacksmith weaponry completed and between 5 and 6 traits researched in both Light and Heavy armors on a single character. I also have every skill at 50, including Alchemy, Enchanting and Provisioning. I kept all 3 researching slots open in all 3 trades and saved 3 skill points to spec 4/4 in all 3 in preparation. My issue is that I have yet to get 1 single nirnhoned trained item to begin research and I have been questing like a madman. This is where they come from is my understanding of what the patch notes read, or am I mistaken?

There is one more issue I have and this one comes down to the player base and their profiteering. I found 1 person who claimed to have near a dozen equipment items in game. Seeing as the average research sale is 400-600 gold I assumed my offer of 1 yellow upgrade of his choice per gear was more than a fair offer. But, I should have known it was anything but the case. This individual laughed at me and demanding 50,000 per item to research, which is absolutely absurd.

The only people who do this I have noticed are the players who do absolutely no crafting themselves. They are taking advantage of the crafters who barely make any profit at all on their crafts, if at all. There are only 2 reasons I can think of for this effect which Zenimax is the cause of; that they are either selling to gold farmers or they are flat out greedy scumbags who hold too high of a value on digital currency. Now, I know this will get ridiculed and bashed on by people because they don't like what I ams saying, and frankly I don't care, because the more it happens, the more it proves to me how true these it really is...

This is the "community" Zenimax has bolstered and rewarded.

It was quite possibly me you were talking to (although I would certainly never laugh in someone's face because they couldn't afford this item unless they were being rude to me in the first place). I'm one of the more prolific Nirnhoned traders at the moment, but my crafting is impeccable I assure you. Max all disciplines for forever now, almost all 8 traits. Every crafting passive, etc.

Why is there some expectation that because something rare exists in the game you are automatically entitled to it because of past effort? You can obtain the traits the same way I've done - playing the game and questing! So go out and get them.

LonePirate

The ultimate issue here is that that these Nirnhone trait items and the Nirncrux trait stones have no business being as rare as they are. My current tinfoil hat theory is this rarity was intentional in order to entice players to play the group quests in Upper Craglorn. ZOS knew (from Lower Craglorn) that an exceptionally small fraction of the player base would complete the quests without some sort of carrot. So, instead of making the items less rare and accessible by all, they doubled down on their group quests or no quests at all approach to Craglorn.

And what was the end result of that decision? I just spent over an hour wandering around Upper Craglorn. A total of one person was looking for other players to quest with and I saw two solo players in separate areas of Upper Craglorn wandering around like I was.

This content has not even been released three full days and it is already a failure due to a complete lack of interest. Plenty of people are grinding out the new levels. Many are tackling the new Dragonstar Arena. Very, very few are actually completing the quests or entering the delves.

It's going to be a long time before these traits are easily obtainable from crafters because of the nonsensical rarity that could easily have been avoided.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

hammer_fella wrote: »

You can obtain the traits the same way I've done - playing the game and questing! So go out and get them.

Abuse early, abuse often is often the way people amass fortunes I find.

Takeda_Shingen

LonePirate wrote: »

The ultimate issue here is that that these Nirnhone trait items and the Nirncrux trait stones have no business being as rare as they are.
It's going to be a long time before these traits are easily obtainable from crafters because of the nonsensical rarity that could easily have been avoided.

I agree and can't find any logical reason why Nirncrux should be rare!!! As the new material and trait was released with the new patch should be in common with all the rest trait stones, this probably is a mistake or unthinkable result from the dev's.

P.S. Also can't understand if and how any could have stacks from this new material.

Wreuntzylla

The trait will only be rare if people don't realize you don't have to wait 30 days to craft trait gear, you just need to craft level an alt. The word just needs to go out to the crafting community.

Gyudan

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

The trait will only be rare if people don't realize you don't have to wait 30 days to craft trait gear, you just need to craft level an alt. The word just needs to go out to the crafting community.

You just need to craft level an alt ... and find enough nirn gems.

LonePirate

Gyudan wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

The trait will only be rare if people don't realize you don't have to wait 30 days to craft trait gear, you just need to craft level an alt. The word just needs to go out to the crafting community.

You just need to craft level an alt ... and find enough nirn gems.

Yeah given how the Nirncrux gems are not delivered by Hirelings and you cannot obtain them via mat refinement, it's almost easier to do the quests for the trained gear than it is to find the gems for crafting by an alt.

I hope I am not the only person who has used the /feedback option to protest this absurd rareness of both the gear and the gems.

Wreuntzylla

Gyudan wrote: »

You just need to craft level an alt ... and find enough nirn gems.

I am an overachiever. All 8 toons are craft leveled to at least 32 in every craft and are steady researchers. In my case, I need to have another account...

indigoblades

I am totally under-welmed by how they did the new trait. I would have preferred it was a 64 day research with no new 30 day passive reducing research times than how they implemented it.

Another slap in the face to the people whom have crafted in this game since day one, for very little if any advantage, especially when one considers all the time we spent juggling inventory to craft, we could have been spent leveling our characters and advancing in pvp.

Gyudan

indigoblades wrote: »

I am totally under-welmed by how they did the new trait. I would have preferred it was a 64 day research with no new 30 day passive reducing research times than how they implemented it.

Another slap in the face to the people whom have crafted in this game since day one, for very little if any advantage, especially when one considers all the time we spent juggling inventory to craft, we could have been spent leveling our characters and advancing in pvp.

I have gathered 14 of the nirnhoned items so far and it will be quite a pain to get all 34. I like how they made crafting challenging again. However, if there is no 9 traits set in the next patch it will be all for nothing again ...

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO

Takeda_Shingen wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

The ultimate issue here is that that these Nirnhone trait items and the Nirncrux trait stones have no business being as rare as they are.
It's going to be a long time before these traits are easily obtainable from crafters because of the nonsensical rarity that could easily have been avoided.

I agree and can't find any logical reason why Nirncrux should be rare!!! As the new material and trait was released with the new patch should be in common with all the rest trait stones, this probably is a mistake or unthinkable result from the dev's.

P.S. Also can't understand if and how any could have stacks from this new material.

Well this one can understand that some folks are really serious in getting and trading for the traits and materials, to the point of putting a message out to zone and guilds every few minutes for hours on end.

Well, with that sort of effort it is understandable that for 2 materials provided for one item they can get stacks of materials over time. No problem with that (aside from the spamming; but once every five minutes is still sort of tolerable).

Even that the materials for the trait are rare anywhere outside upper Craglorn is understandable. However, what this one really can't get is that when you actually go to the mines in upper Craglorn, where the nirncrux seems to be lying around on the ground, you still can't get any of that stuff!

Seriously, it's not so easy to defeat the mine trolls and orcs!

Therefore, at least make it so that at the end of that fight you get at least one trait stone (with a 50% / 50% chance for either type or type defined by the mine's location).

That would still make getting the stuff a challenge, but keep the price for the materials at "reasonable" level and not at the outrageous prices of sometimes even more than 20k in gold! seen lately at least on EU server in several trading guilds.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Takeda_Shingen wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

The ultimate issue here is that that these Nirnhone trait items and the Nirncrux trait stones have no business being as rare as they are.
It's going to be a long time before these traits are easily obtainable from crafters because of the nonsensical rarity that could easily have been avoided.

I agree and can't find any logical reason why Nirncrux should be rare!!! As the new material and trait was released with the new patch should be in common with all the rest trait stones, this probably is a mistake or unthinkable result from the dev's.

P.S. Also can't understand if and how any could have stacks from this new material.

Bots? Lol!

Tavore1138

This whole 9th trait thing seems tomhave been designed to penalise crafters & reward those with easy access to Craglorn groups... I.e. the same established guilds who have the ear of the devs as always.

If grouping in this game was functional perhaps we could all hunt down this stuff, but we all know that finding groups in Crag is not easy at all unless you are in one of the big guilds.

So a slap in the crafter's face, a kick for those who don't want to level alts to craft and another pat on the back fornthemonly group ZOS listen too...

LonePirate

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

This whole 9th trait thing seems tomhave been designed to penalise crafters & reward those with easy access to Craglorn groups... I.e. the same established guilds who have the ear of the devs as always.

If grouping in this game was functional perhaps we could all hunt down this stuff, but we all know that finding groups in Crag is not easy at all unless you are in one of the big guilds.

So a slap in the crafter's face, a kick for those who don't want to level alts to craft and another pat on the back fornthemonly group ZOS listen too...

If you think it is bad now, wait until Update 5 hits as it offers a 9 trait crafting station in Upper Craglorn with a 5 piece bonus of having two Mundus stones active at once.

This whole Nirnhorn mess is just another example of ZOS telling its largest player group to take a hike.

Tavore1138

LonePirate wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

This whole 9th trait thing seems tomhave been designed to penalise crafters & reward those with easy access to Craglorn groups... I.e. the same established guilds who have the ear of the devs as always.

If grouping in this game was functional perhaps we could all hunt down this stuff, but we all know that finding groups in Crag is not easy at all unless you are in one of the big guilds.

So a slap in the crafter's face, a kick for those who don't want to level alts to craft and another pat on the back fornthemonly group ZOS listen too...

If you think it is bad now, wait until Update 5 hits as it offers a 9 trait crafting station in Upper Craglorn with a 5 piece bonus of having two Mundus stones active at once.

This whole Nirnhorn mess is just another example of ZOS telling its largest player group to take a hike.

And if you think that's bad just wait until that crafting station is located at the end of a trial you can only do with a 40 person group from the same guild and have to be VR20 to enter.

Natjur

nirnhon is rare cause the dev's want it to be. It will give more value to the new 9 trait set.

At the moment, there are so many crafters (almost every player has a crafter or three) They wanted to give value back to crafting by making something rare.

nirnhon is a trait no one cares about (spell resistance) but they will care about the new 9 trait crafting station in Upper Craglorn.

Those who can use this, will make some money, its means crafting is now worth something again. I think its a good move, selling something from that new crafting station should make a good profit.

Wonder how long before they release a 10th trait and make it from trials only or something just a rare.

Wreuntzylla

How does making nirnhorne rare give value back to crafting? It gives value to people in hardcore guilds with lots of time on their hands, not to crafting or crafters.

Research gear is selling for 24k right now...

I seriously have no idea what they were thinking. Same with nerfing enchanting. Next up, a reduction in all research timers by 50% to lower the barrier for new players.

Natjur

Anyone with a V1+ toon can farm nirnhon (just harvest any ore, wood or cloth plant in upper craglorn)

No need to be a 'hardcore' guild. You just need a V1+ toon and a lot of time, as the chance of getting nirnhon from a node is like 0.25%

The biggest 'nerf' to crafting is the top 100 on weekly trials now get legendary gear, so they do not even need a craftier to upgrade there drops anymore.

Every mmo 'dumbs' down crafting after a while. There is no money in crafting except selling potions and foods.

Wreuntzylla

@Natjur‌ - this thresd is about research items, not the consumable trait.

Gyudan

At the moment (at least in EU), many people are selling the nirnhoned items at a reasonable price, as long as the stone is provided. Depending on the crafters, prices may vary from 2k to 10k + stone for an item.

So no, you don't need to be in a guild to get those. Besides, doing the upper Craglorn quest only grants you 1 single item that wouldn't matter much now that all 34 items are available everywhere.

Go harvest.

Darthryan

Seriously its not that rare. I found 4 in 45 mins. I loot everything I see including enchanting and herbs. Just spend an hour harvesting nodes and I gaurantee that you'll have at least 1 if not more. Hurry up and get them cause we need more crafters with 9 set done for update 5. Hurry up and get to work.

LonePirate

mriguy1981 wrote: »

Seriously its not that rare. I found 4 in 45 mins. I loot everything I see including enchanting and herbs. Just spend an hour harvesting nodes and I gaurantee that you'll have at least 1 if not more. Hurry up and get them cause we need more crafters with 9 set done for update 5. Hurry up and get to work.

This has not been my experience at all. I have spent numerous hours harvesting ore, wood, blooms, runes and alchemy plants - well over 2,000 harvested nodes. I have found only 5 nirncrux stones. From what I surmise by speaking with others, their experiences are closer to mine than to yours.