DMG Shields - Working as intended?

DDuke

I conducted a couple of tests a few days ago, and it seems that currently it is impossible to crit on someone with a dmg shield active (harness magicka was tested), stealth crits included. This was tested on someone with 0 impenetrable, while I had 75% critical strike chance.

Also, targets blocking while they have shield active take same amount of damage as targets not blocking.

Is this intended, or another bug?

I will try to come up with some raw numbers from the testing (forgot to write those down) today/tomorrow.


EDIT: Alright, I did some testing (on Hardened Ward) and this is what I found out:

On target with 100 armour & 1701 spell resistance:

Using Snipe from sneak (which should be quaranteed crit):

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 1587 dmg
Block = 794 dmg
DMG Shield = 581 dmg (absorbed)+658 dmg -> 1239 dmg
DMG Shield+Block = 581 dmg (absorbed)+206 dmg -> 787 dmg

Light Attack

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 290 (crit) 181 non crit
Block = 145 (crit) 91 non crit
DMG Shield = 181 (no crits at all)
DMG Shield+Block = 181 (no crits at all)

Funnel Health

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 688 (crit) 430 non crit
Block = 344 (crit) 214 non crit
DMG Shield = 502 (no crits at all)
DMG Shield+Block = 502

Flying Blade

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 864 (crit) 540 non crit
Block = 432 (crit) 270 non crit
DMG Shield = 540 (no crits at all)
DMG Shield+Block = 540 (no crits at all)

So from this testing we can conclude that DMG Shields indeed prevent people from critting on them at all.

I hope that this isn't working as intended, as it makes dmg shields ridiculously powerful against high crit builds. (Yeah, you impenetrable people can also ditch that trait, just keep a dmg shield up).

There is another problem with dmg shields also, which we found out. If you cast a dmg shield while previous one is still active, the previous one does not get replenished (meaning, you only waste magicka). To get a new dmg shield, you need to wait for the previous one to expire/get destroyed.


Other misc. observations made during testing:

• Critical Charge (with Crit Surge up) doesn't heal on blocking targets (even though it does crit)
• Silence prevents weapon swapping

Izzban

Well, makes sense that blocking/not blocking is same damage, as the shield is taking the blow instead of the character. Unless you are saying that during a single hit the shield capacity is overcome and the character still takes the same amount from the rest of the blow?

As far as critting, I could go either way.

It makes sense that as you lunge for that perfect strike sure to pierce the heart of your enemy (a crit) the unseen force of the shield interrupts your efforts and spoils the kill.

Course, if you are swinging a huge hammer at someone's head, maybe that piddling shield shouldn't be able to interfere.

Cody

Izzban wrote: »

Well, makes sense that blocking/not blocking is same damage, as the shield is taking the blow instead of the character. Unless you are saying that during a single hit the shield capacity is overcome and the character still takes the same amount from the rest of the blow?

Course, if you are swinging a huge hammer at someone's head, maybe that piddling shield shouldn't be able to interfere.

or staves. or other weapons.

DDuke

Alright, I did some testing (on Hardened Ward) and this is what I found out:

On target with 100 armour & 1701 spell resistance:

Using Snipe from sneak (which should be quaranteed crit):

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 1587 dmg
Block = 794 dmg
DMG Shield = 581 dmg (absorbed)+658 dmg -> 1239 dmg
DMG Shield+Block = 581 dmg (absorbed)+206 dmg -> 787 dmg

Light Attack

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 290 (crit) 181 non crit
Block = 145 (crit) 91 non crit
DMG Shield = 181 (no crits at all)
DMG Shield+Block = 181 (no crits at all)

Funnel Health

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 688 (crit) 430 non crit
Block = 344 (crit) 214 non crit
DMG Shield = 502 (no crits at all)
DMG Shield+Block = 502

Flying Blade

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 864 (crit) 540 non crit
Block = 432 (crit) 270 non crit
DMG Shield = 540 (no crits at all)
DMG Shield+Block = 540 (no crits at all)

So from this testing we can conclude that DMG Shields indeed prevent people from critting on them at all.

I hope that this isn't working as intended, as it makes dmg shields ridiculously powerful against high crit builds. (Yeah, you impenetrable people can also ditch that trait, just keep a dmg shield up).

There is another problem with dmg shields also, which we found out. If you cast a dmg shield while previous one is still active, the previous one does not get replenished (meaning, you only waste magicka). To get a new dmg shield, you need to wait for the previous one to expire/get destroyed.


Other misc. observations made during testing:

• Critical Charge doesn't heal on blocking targets (even though it does crit)
• Silence prevents weapon swapping

Could you pass this along to the dev team, @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ?

Merlin13KAGL

DDuke wrote: »

I conducted a couple of tests a few days ago, and it seems that currently it is impossible to crit on someone with a dmg shield active (harness magicka was tested), stealth crits included. This was tested on someone with 0 impenetrable, while I had 75% critical strike chance.

Also, targets blocking while they have shield active take same amount of damage as targets not blocking.

Is this intended, or another bug?

@DDuke‌, damage shields take raw damage, one for one, before any other factors are applied. Blocking doesn't come into play unless the entirety of the shield is disbursed.

Raw damage to shield first, then % mitigation whether from blocking or other skills/spells, armor/spell resistance next, including block, if appropriate, meat bag takes what's left.

You find it odd that damage shields shield from damage, but have no issues with the fact that you can attain 75% crit?

And Silence prevents weapon swapping? Are you talking about Negate Magic? If so, it's doing what it's intended - stunning and silencing.

If you are referring to something else, please specify how you are being silenced?

DDuke

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@DDuke‌, damage shields take raw damage, one for one, before any other factors are applied. Blocking doesn't come into play unless the entirety of the shield is disbursed.

Raw damage to shield first, then % mitigation whether from blocking or other skills/spells, armor/spell resistance next, including block, if appropriate, meat bag takes what's left.

I know that. DMG Shields also have 0 armour & spell resistance, but that isn't a problem.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You find it odd that damage shields shield from damage, but have no issues with the fact that you can attain 75% crit?

The problem isn't that they shield from damage, the problem is that they prevent critical hits altogether, making crit even more useless than it is currently (no thanks to impenetrable). Basicly, the only time when you're quaranteed a critical hit, is when you're hitting target from stealth with a physical attack. Except not, if the target is using a dmg shield.

Of course it's strange that you can have so high (permanent) crit in an MMO. I'd be fine with tuning that number down somehow, along with impenetrable (which should be 1% per 100, not 10%).

The only thing dmg shields accomplish at the moment, is make stamina builds *even less viable*, as well as any builds built around critical surge. Also it neuters multiple nightblade passives useless (10% critical strike dmg, +3% critical strike chance per assassination ability slotted), as well as the Shadow & Thief mundus stones.

I hope I've mentioned enough balance-breaking reasons why this is wrong. Why should I be punished for playing the "rogue" archetype in an MMO, especially when fighting casters using spamming dmg shields?

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

And Silence prevents weapon swapping? Are you talking about Negate Magic? If so, it's doing what it's intended - stunning and silencing.

If you are referring to something else, please specify how you are being silenced?

Negate Magic is exactly what I meant. I'm fine with not being able to cast spells while in it, but swapping weapons? How does that make sense at all? Last I checked, the ultimate was called Negate Magic, not Total Paralyzis

The only thing that leads to is frustration "why isn't my weapon swap not working and I keep hitting air with my swords instead of swapping to bow".

As for the stun, that is against NPCs only, as stated in the tooltip.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Izzban wrote: »

Well, makes sense that blocking/not blocking is same damage, as the shield is taking the blow instead of the character. Unless you are saying that during a single hit the shield capacity is overcome and the character still takes the same amount from the rest of the blow?

As far as critting, I could go either way.

It makes sense that as you lunge for that perfect strike sure to pierce the heart of your enemy (a crit) the unseen force of the shield interrupts your efforts and spoils the kill.

Course, if you are swinging a huge hammer at someone's head, maybe that piddling shield shouldn't be able to interfere.

Sorry, but that pseudorealism doesn't make sense in the context of the game at all. You literally just made up explanations of what things are and drew conclusions on how they should function following this, neither of which being grounded in the game at any point.

In a game, arbitrary game mechanic A should not just disable arbitrary game mechanic B unless the rules specifically say so.

ThatHappyCat

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Izzban wrote: »

Well, makes sense that blocking/not blocking is same damage, as the shield is taking the blow instead of the character. Unless you are saying that during a single hit the shield capacity is overcome and the character still takes the same amount from the rest of the blow?

As far as critting, I could go either way.

It makes sense that as you lunge for that perfect strike sure to pierce the heart of your enemy (a crit) the unseen force of the shield interrupts your efforts and spoils the kill.

Course, if you are swinging a huge hammer at someone's head, maybe that piddling shield shouldn't be able to interfere.

Sorry, but that pseudorealism doesn't make sense in the context of the game at all. You literally just made up explanations of what things are and drew conclusions on how they should function following this, neither of which being grounded in the game at any point.

In a game, arbitrary game mechanic A should not just disable arbitrary game mechanic B unless the rules specifically say so.

You could say the same about blocking not reducing damage to shields or shields not benefiting from mitigation.

Pmarsico9

Just because blocking doesn't reduce damage to shields doesn't mean that something like Blazing Shield or Steadfast Ward should make you crit immune.

That's insanely broken and needs fixed ASAP.

ThatHappyCat

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Just because blocking doesn't reduce damage to shields doesn't mean that something like Blazing Shield or Steadfast Ward should make you crit immune.

That's insanely broken and needs fixed ASAP.

I said nothing about whether it is broken or not, just that the argument "arbitrary mechanic A shouldn't disable arbitrary mechanic B" doesn't really hold up; unless your problem is with all of them.

Pmarsico9

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Just because blocking doesn't reduce damage to shields doesn't mean that something like Blazing Shield or Steadfast Ward should make you crit immune.

That's insanely broken and needs fixed ASAP.

I said nothing about whether it is broken or not, just that the argument "arbitrary mechanic A shouldn't disable arbitrary mechanic B" doesn't really hold up; unless your problem is with all of them.

Thematically, the damage being calculated prior to whether a block reduction is factored in sort of makes sense. However, the inability to be crit is gamebreaking due to the lack of other secondary offensive statistics.

wllstrt75b14_ESO

Why would a danage shield not prevent a crit? Your technically not hitting your target but a shield, how can you crit a non-character? Also same goes for a shield.

If you are complaining about hitting shields and not critting then you need to pick your targets more carefully and only attack those that dont have shields.

A high crit rate should not insure instant deaths that most Night blades expect. There should be counters in place to prevent instant deaths and shields are that counter.

You can not complain that players choose to be defensive and prevent crits, this is also why nightblades have bonuses to stealthy attacks and can choose their targets wisely to get those quick insta kills.

I have died on many occasions to archers who weave attacks and hit me 5 times within 2 seconds and basically insta kill me because I have not put up my damage shields.

those players chose their targets wisely sounds like you are not.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

did it every occur to anyone that there is so many ways to prevent crit because 75% base crit is basically insane if you dont.... seems like a painfully obvious balance to me.

DDuke

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

Why would a danage shield not prevent a crit? Your technically not hitting your target but a shield, how can you crit a non-character? Also same goes for a shield.

You can critically strike a magically weaker point in the magical barrier created. There, I explained in simple terms how you can crit on a shield.

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

If you are complaining about hitting shields and not critting then you need to pick your targets more carefully and only attack those that dont have shields.

Oh, so stamina builds aren't allowed to beat people using dmg shields? How does that make any sense...

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

A high crit rate should not insure instant deaths that most Night blades expect. There should be counters in place to prevent instant deaths and shields are that counter.

A high crit rate doesn't quarantee a single kill at the moment. Anyone wearing heavy armour or blocking counters that, anyone wearing impenetrable counters that (should also be fixed), anyone with 3k+ health counters that.

If you fail to meet any of these conditions, maybe you should instead question your own light armour build and why you expect to survive physical burst damage in it.

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

You can not complain that players choose to be defensive and prevent crits, this is also why nightblades have bonuses to stealthy attacks and can choose their targets wisely to get those quick insta kills.

Players choose to be defensive, yet they keep 2k health and wear 7/7 light armour? Also, nightblades aren't about "getting quick insta kills" only (in fact, any class can do it unless the target has 3k+ health), most of the nightblades are currently magicka focused no thanks to things like dmg shields making stamina useless (you can't capitalize on the opponent's lack of armour when he spams "immunity" shields 24/7).

Also, these players who "choose to be defensive" yet somehow find a way to kill you in 5 seconds once they've got their precious shield up.

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

I have died on many occasions to archers who weave attacks and hit me 5 times within 2 seconds and basically insta kill me because I have not put up my damage shields.

No, they kill you because you haven't got enough armour/health, aren't blocking, and most likely don't break the stun fast enough.

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

those players chose their targets wisely sounds like you are not.

Again, I get the whole "rock, paper, scissors" thing, but you can't make players unkillable to all stamina builds, if they pick up a single skill, which costs less than 300 magicka and gives you 1k shield that makes you immune to critical strikes. That is ridiculous.

Something tells me you're one of the dmg shield spammers.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

[/quote]

Again, I get the whole "rock, paper, scissors" thing, but you can't make players unkillable to all stamina builds, if they pick up a single skill, which costs less than 300 magicka and gives you 1k shield that makes you immune to critical strikes. That is ridiculous.

Something tells me you're one of the dmg shield spammers.[/quote]

first of all, what skill is that? what is a 1000 point damage shield available to ANY magica build; oh ya, there isnt one. and if your talking about magica harness, which is heavily used, its only about 350 and you take 50% less SPELLDAMAGE so stamina builds can blow through that with almost any move.
If your talking about blazing shield then its only available to templars, all builds can use it, and besides, every class has a unique ability that frustrates everyone. Im sure i dont need to spell it out for you because everyone knows what they are.
or is a differnt class skill your confused about? im not sure but you dont seem to have a very good grasp on this issue.

and p.s. why would you critically hit a target when you havent even hit the target at all? It makes perfect sense to have no mitigation from either side; you cant further block from inside or cant crit a barrier, seems fine to me. how does that not make perfect sense?

wllstrt75b14_ESO

DDUke I dont see other nightblades having issues killing players using a stamina build in fact I dont see archers in general having issues killing players despite a lot of them not being stamina specced and doing less damage then a stamina build, you can not fault defensive tactics as a reason you cant kill people.

I use damage shields to prevent nightblades from stealthing up on me and killing me in 2 seconds yes....If a nightblades chooses to do this while I am protecting myself then it is their fault what you want is for nightblades to be able to kill at will without any issues I might as well just take off all my clothes and scream for you to come and kill me and stand there while you do...this is what you want after all.

just so ya know I use the light armor damage shield and my class specific shield and yes I use light armor I can be a terribly easy target to kill if I dont take precautions as I have to be smart about those precautions regarding my resource management so does a nightblade on when they choose to attack it would not be terrible fair if your nightblade just ran around critting for 2k damage on every hit killing things in 2 hits cause you deemed that its the way it should be....

then we would not have sorcerers online it would be nigthblades online as everyone would want to 1 and 2 hit everyone else.

I fail to see where your logic in thinking nightblades should crit every time and kill instantly.

I also have a vet 5 nightblade stamina build and he has no issues picking the right targets and killing things. And hes not even build for crit hits, hes built for stealth speed.

DDuke

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

first of all, what skill is that? what is a 1000 point damage shield available to ANY magica build; oh ya, there isnt one. and if your talking about magica harness, which is heavily used, its only about 350 and you take 50% less SPELLDAMAGE so stamina builds can blow through that with almost any move.
If your talking about blazing shield then its only available to templars, all builds can use it, and besides, every class has a unique ability that frustrates everyone. Im sure i dont need to spell it out for you because everyone knows what they are.
or is a differnt class skill your confused about? im not sure but you dont seem to have a very good grasp on this issue.

and p.s. why would you critically hit a target when you havent even hit the target at all? It makes perfect sense to have no mitigation from either side; you cant further block from inside or cant crit a barrier, seems fine to me. how does that not make perfect sense?

"My" issue isn't with a particular class or skill, it is with dmg shields.

Why should there be certain abilities that render multiple builds (all stamina builds included) absolutely useless against them without having any kind of drawbacks? There is the concept of balance you should consider.

Every class has access to a strong dmg shield (restoration staff) and apart from that, there's Hardened Ward (sorcerers) & Blazing Shield (templars) both granting 1k+ shields for next to no mana.

You can easily just spam one of these shields on yourself, while an archer or dual wield character is throwing all his stamina nuking you, ending with the archer at 0 stamina & you at 50% magicka, while you're free to do whatever while the shield holds. Do I need to spell out how that ends? Of course the other option is for stamina user to run away, but how is that balanced PvP when the other can just press one button for dmg shield and win the fight?


I do not believe dmg shields are working as intended at the moment, and if they are, the devs have done a terrible job at balancing.

DDuke

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

DDUke I dont see other nightblades having issues killing players using a stamina build in fact I dont see archers in general having issues killing players despite a lot of them not being stamina specced and doing less damage then a stamina build, you can not fault defensive tactics as a reason you cant kill people.

I do not have issues killing players, but currently anyone (with decent talent) using a dmg shield is unkillable, and there is a lot of people using dmg shields (they are only becoming more & more popular). Also, this is not about nightblades alone, all classes can build around stamina.

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

I use damage shields to prevent nightblades from stealthing up on me and killing me in 2 seconds yes....If a nightblades chooses to do this while I am protecting myself then it is their fault what you want is for nightblades to be able to kill at will without any issues I might as well just take off all my clothes and scream for you to come and kill me and stand there while you do...this is what you want after all.

How about getting more health/armour & blocking? I often kill people with low health & armour really quick, and I don't see a problem in physical dmg being strong against cloth.

Currently, what would you say are the drawbacks of wearing light armour, when you can just spam dmg shields to become immune to stamina builds?

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

just so ya know I use the light armor damage shield and my class specific shield and yes I use light armor I can be a terribly easy target to kill if I dont take precautions as I have to be smart about those precautions regarding my resource management so does a nightblade on when they choose to attack it would not be terrible fair if your nightblade just ran around critting for 2k damage on every hit killing things in 2 hits cause you deemed that its the way it should be....

This conversation seems to be derailing towards nightblades and stealth dmg. What makes you think all stamina builds should be stealth focused? I can be extremely effective starting from out of stealth and easily kill people who don't have a dmg shield on their bar. However, when dmg shield comes up it simply means that I cannot out dmg it (with 236 weapon dmg, 2,4k stamina & 75% crit). I will run out of stamina a lot faster than the opponent will run out of magicka. Period.

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

then we would not have sorcerers online it would be nigthblades online as everyone would want to 1 and 2 hit everyone else.

I fail to see where your logic in thinking nightblades should crit every time and kill instantly.

Of course I should be able to crit, if I go through the effort to get 75% crit chance.

Again, if you want to avoid getting killed in 2 seconds, just get more health & armour it's not that difficult.

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

I also have a vet 5 nightblade stamina build and he has no issues picking the right targets and killing things. And hes not even build for crit hits, hes built for stealth speed.

And why should someone not be able to build for critical strikes, when your class passives clearly promote doing so? Logic is allowed


If something is broken, it needs to be fixed.

Spangla

BUMP - Must be able to get a guarenteed sneak crit attack on a shield.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

but i feel safe in my bubbles...

Pmarsico9

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

Why would a damage shield not prevent a crit?

You know how dumb this line of thought is?

1) It renders Impenetrable completely worthless. An entire trait statistic has no use if you spec Ward. This will further mess up PVP because it further bolsters blobs and increases potential damage via Infused (divines will be worthless because crit is worthless in this particular case) on the batswarming impulse spam mouthbreathing

2) It destroys an entire offensive statistic in PVP.

3) While the shields don't factor in armor or whether you are blocking or not (which again is stupid in its own right) prior to the calculation of the damage against them, the fact that it completely nullifies an opponents crit is more powerful. Because that's a potential damage reduction of 50% per blow ON TOP of the fact that it is shielding your healthbar for its given amount.

4) Resto staff needs no help. None! It's viability is baked into the fact that you can heal with it on. This further bolsters an already broken weapon in how effective it is. Add in Cycle of Life and it gets worse.

There's a lot of balance issues and refinement that needs to happen in this game. This is not something that anybody should view as calculated. Certain aspects of ESO don't have a dedicated team working on them, and class/ability balance is a major indication of that.

One can only hope that issues like this are remedied at a point in time after the Justice System, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Champion System, and Spellcrafting are instituted via weekly patches and a delay of content following that for a period of time to get the game back into whack and spend major time bugfixing, refining, and balancing.

Domander

DDuke wrote: »

I conducted a couple of tests a few days ago, and it seems that currently it is impossible to crit on someone with a dmg shield active (harness magicka was tested), stealth crits included. This was tested on someone with 0 impenetrable, while I had 75% critical strike chance.

Also, targets blocking while they have shield active take same amount of damage as targets not blocking.

Is this intended, or another bug?

I will try to come up with some raw numbers from the testing (forgot to write those down) today/tomorrow.


EDIT: Alright, I did some testing (on Hardened Ward) and this is what I found out:

On target with 100 armour & 1701 spell resistance:

Using Snipe from sneak (which should be quaranteed crit):

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 1587 dmg
Block = 794 dmg
DMG Shield = 581 dmg (absorbed)+658 dmg -> 1239 dmg
DMG Shield+Block = 581 dmg (absorbed)+206 dmg -> 787 dmg

Light Attack

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 290 (crit) 181 non crit
Block = 145 (crit) 91 non crit
DMG Shield = 181 (no crits at all)
DMG Shield+Block = 181 (no crits at all)

Funnel Health

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 688 (crit) 430 non crit
Block = 344 (crit) 214 non crit
DMG Shield = 502 (no crits at all)
DMG Shield+Block = 502

Flying Blade

Not Blocking&No DMG Shield = 864 (crit) 540 non crit
Block = 432 (crit) 270 non crit
DMG Shield = 540 (no crits at all)
DMG Shield+Block = 540 (no crits at all)

So from this testing we can conclude that DMG Shields indeed prevent people from critting on them at all.

I hope that this isn't working as intended, as it makes dmg shields ridiculously powerful against high crit builds. (Yeah, you impenetrable people can also ditch that trait, just keep a dmg shield up).

There is another problem with dmg shields also, which we found out. If you cast a dmg shield while previous one is still active, the previous one does not get replenished (meaning, you only waste magicka). To get a new dmg shield, you need to wait for the previous one to expire/get destroyed.


Other misc. observations made during testing:

• Critical Charge doesn't heal on blocking targets (even though it does crit)
• Silence prevents weapon swapping

I'd like to add that blocking with a damage shield up will still use stamina even though no damage is reduced.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

first of all, what skill is that? what is a 1000 point damage shield available to ANY magica build; oh ya, there isnt one. and if your talking about magica harness, which is heavily used, its only about 350 and you take 50% less SPELLDAMAGE so stamina builds can blow through that with almost any move.
If your talking about blazing shield then its only available to templars, all builds can use it, and besides, every class has a unique ability that frustrates everyone. Im sure i dont need to spell it out for you because everyone knows what they are.
or is a differnt class skill your confused about? im not sure but you dont seem to have a very good grasp on this issue.

and p.s. why would you critically hit a target when you havent even hit the target at all? It makes perfect sense to have no mitigation from either side; you cant further block from inside or cant crit a barrier, seems fine to me. how does that not make perfect sense?

"My" issue isn't with a particular class or skill, it is with dmg shields.

Why should there be certain abilities that render multiple builds (all stamina builds included) absolutely useless against them without having any kind of drawbacks? There is the concept of balance you should consider.

Every class has access to a strong dmg shield (restoration staff) and apart from that, there's Hardened Ward (sorcerers) & Blazing Shield (templars) both granting 1k+ shields for next to no mana.

You can easily just spam one of these shields on yourself, while an archer or dual wield character is throwing all his stamina nuking you, ending with the archer at 0 stamina & you at 50% magicka, while you're free to do whatever while the shield holds. Do I need to spell out how that ends? Of course the other option is for stamina user to run away, but how is that balanced PvP when the other can just press one button for dmg shield and win the fight?


I do not believe dmg shields are working as intended at the moment, and if they are, the devs have done a terrible job at balancing.

I completely disagree. No drawback? You have to spend resources and you are casting defense instead of attacking. Have you even played other classes. I love playing a Templar but its a well known fact that our DPs is a joke, the only thing we have is survivability. Our DPs moves have debuffs Or cc, holding back our DPs, but its good for PvP. The fact is that it Is about balance, its hard to get a Templar to get half the nb single target DPs, so we defend, that's the balance and that's why they gave us the best shield. Your just QQ.

DDuke

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

I completely disagree. No drawback? You have to spend resources and you are casting defense instead of attacking.

You spend 200-300 magicka in order to create a dmg shield which makes me spend 400-500 stamina (since I cant crit on it), while being able to regen magicka/health yourself while inside it, or nuke me with spells. Nothing wrong there at all...

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Have you even played other classes. I love playing a Templar but its a well known fact that our DPs is a joke, the only thing we have is survivability.

There are Templar builds capable of achieving 1,4k DPS in trials. In PvP, you can hit people for 10k dmg with blazing shield or stunlock them with Biting Jabs. The fact that you havent figured out how to get the most out of your Templar doesn't mean they aren't viable. I have 3 alts, one Templar, one DK & one Sorcerer.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Or DPs moves have debuffs Or cc holding back our DPs but its good for PvP. The fact is that it Is about balance, its hard to get a Templar to get half the nb single target DPs, so we defend, that's the balance and that's why they gave us the best shield. Your just QQ.

So your justification of having broken game mechanics (dmg shields in general, not just your precious Blazing Shield which has even more problems...), is that your Templar isn't op enough? I will quote you:

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Your just QQ.

Pmarsico9

There are Templar builds capable of achieving 1,4k DPS in trials. In PvP, you can hit people for 10k dmg with blazing shield or stunlock them with Biting Jabs. The fact that you havent figured out how to get the most out of your Templar doesn't mean they aren't viable. I have 3 alts, one Templar, one DK & one Sorcerer.

1) No, that was with AoE.
2) NB's and DK's are at 2.3K in NON COMPETITIVE trials single target.
3) 10K Dmg shield is exploiting and you should be filing reports against people that hit you with that.
4) Templar's aren't viable DPS in the slightest in this game. You can claim you cleared a VR Dungeon with a Templar DPS, but that doesn't really mean anything because most of them aren't doing anywhere close to the DPS that other classes are. In fact, it's so bad that 9 times out of 10, they are better off allowing the healer to do more DPS to and splitting the healing duties up to allow any DK, Sorc, or NB to stand in the bad ad nauseum and DPS moar.

Please don't spread misinformation. I understand you hate damage shields. I understand they are buggy. But this is two completely different topics:

You are getting killed by people exploiting a bug and it pisses you off (completely understandable.)

Damage shields are ridiculously overpowered against crit-based damage builds (also completely understandable.)

DDuke

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

There are Templar builds capable of achieving 1,4k DPS in trials. In PvP, you can hit people for 10k dmg with blazing shield or stunlock them with Biting Jabs. The fact that you havent figured out how to get the most out of your Templar doesn't mean they aren't viable. I have 3 alts, one Templar, one DK & one Sorcerer.

1) No, that was with AoE.
2) NB's and DK's are at 2.3K in NON COMPETITIVE trials single target.
3) 10K Dmg shield is exploiting and you should be filing reports against people that hit you with that.
4) Templar's aren't viable DPS in the slightest in this game. You can claim you cleared a VR Dungeon with a Templar DPS, but that doesn't really mean anything because most of them aren't doing anywhere close to the DPS that other classes are. In fact, it's so bad that 9 times out of 10, they are better off allowing the healer to do more DPS to and splitting the healing duties up to allow any DK, Sorc, or NB to stand in the bad ad nauseum and DPS moar.

Please don't spread misinformation. I understand you hate damage shields. I understand they are buggy. But this is two completely different topics:

You are getting killed by people exploiting a bug and it pisses you off (completely understandable.)

Damage shields are ridiculously overpowered against crit-based damage builds (also completely understandable.)

1) Oh ok, my apologies if that is the case. I've heard some reliable sources claim Templars are 2nd best DPS in the game, but I don't have any end-game experience with them myself so can't confirm that.

2) I've never seen a NB pull off 2,3k DPS single target without exploiting. I can get 1,3k~ if I pull off the animation canceling perfectly, using the usual funnel health-crippling grasp-veil-spell symmetry-impale setup. 2k-2,5k AoE is normal though.

3) It's not the people using that broken skill who are quilty, but Zenimax not addressing these issues quickly enough. Besides, 50% of templars you come across in Cyrodiil are using this either intentionally, or unintentionally.

4) I'll have to level up my templar alt to see it myself, but I'll take your word for it


It is not my intention to spread misinformation and I should probably have written "I have heard Templar builds are capable of 1,4k DPS", but playing a stamina nightblade perfectly capable of achieving 1k sustained DPS in Trials (pre-patch), which is generally thought "impossible", I don't see why it couldn't be possible
I'll get back to you once I've leveled my templar alt with reports of my success/failure.

Anyhow, this conversation has somehow derailed from dmg shields being bugged(?) to Templar DPS. Can we stay on topic please.

Tankqull

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Damage shields are ridiculously overpowered against crit-based damage builds (also completely understandable.)

who crits in pvp anyway ?without intention to harm anyone but aiming for a crit build currently is nothing but dump regardless of shields or not.

DDuke

Tankqull wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Damage shields are ridiculously overpowered against crit-based damage builds (also completely understandable.)

who crits in pvp anyway ?without intention to harm anyone but aiming for a crit build currently is nothing but dump regardless of shields or not.

Attacks from sneak have 100% quaranteed crit chance even against impenetrable (another big issue) stacking people, but not if they have dmg shield.

Tankqull

every opener attack from stealth blow up any shield even triple sorc stacks so its a non issue

DDuke

Tankqull wrote: »

every opener attack from stealth blow up any shield even triple sorc stacks so its a non issue

Let me tell you what happened the other day...

I've got 236 weapon dmg, 75% crit (was pre-patch) & 2,4k stamina. I see a sorcerer at 30% health. Oh, should be easy I think. Sorcerer has a dmg shield up. I snipe, sorcerer's shield is gone and he takes.. 100 damage. Another shield comes up, I start nuking him with light attack + venom arrow (animation canceling ofc), just to get another shield pop up.

I switch to melee, ambush him, fear him with Mass Hysteria, nuke that shield with flying blades (each hitting for 550~), he runs, shield holds. He's out of fear, pops another shield, I keep throwing knives & light attacks with animation cancel. I fear again with perfect timing when his CC immunity runs out, and the shield holds again... I pop a potion and keep going. This repeats a couple of times, with me throwing a couple Dark Cloak->Surprise Attack armor reduce+stun combos in between.

I'm at low health at this point, because I've been DoTted and hit by light attacks & a couple endless furys (crystal shards I dodge ofc). Finally, I'm out of stamina and magicka, the sorcerer crystal shards me once (no stamina for dodging at that point) and I'm dead.

Similar scenarios happen against other damage shields as well (Blazing Shield comes to mind), and the only way a stamina build can beat those is if the opponent decides to not use dmg shield.

I lose a little bit of faith in humanity every time I read someone trying to defend them.

Tankqull

sounds to me more like you met a guy abusing the vamp mist exploit than a problem regarding shields.
and beside that the 2 most usefull shields are up to every one... and would have saved your a.. if you would have used them aswell