Stealth/invisibility and NB

Piedplat

BROKEN


discute

lathbury

Still? Ok will check back later ty for the update

Piedplat

lathbury wrote: »

Still? Ok will check back later ty for the update

The update is the same since beta.

Still waiting...

CapuchinSeven

I was playing my magic NB build last night, it was comical. Was using Shadowy Disguise to stealth so I could use Concealed Weapon for the auto crit and the stun, literally every single time I tried to use this combo my Shadowy Disguise would break before I could use it.

Every single time.

Thudunblundur

It seems that DOTs on you break you out of Invis. Shadowy disguise doesn't remove dots where Dark Cloak does. I use Dark cloak and rarely have problems with Invisibility breaking.

I suspect that a few other things break Invis as well - gas attacks can in some cases, for example ( I was fighting Welwa in Craglorn and noticed it break a few times with them)

If these are intended effects I have no problem with them - fine with me if pouring blood or having a sneezing or choking fit makes you detectable. The difficulty I have is I don't know if they are an intended effect or a bug.

Stannum

The problem is that any DoT you do break invis

CapuchinSeven

Thudunblundur wrote: »

It seems that DOTs on you break you out of Invis. Shadowy disguise doesn't remove dots where Dark Cloak does. I use Dark cloak and rarely have problems with Invisibility breaking.

I suspect that a few other things break Invis as well - gas attacks can in some cases, for example ( I was fighting Welwa in Craglorn and noticed it break a few times with them)

If these are intended effects I have no problem with them - fine with me if pouring blood or having a sneezing or choking fit makes you detectable. The difficulty I have is I don't know if they are an intended effect or a bug.

Dark Cloak will also break if you're too close to someone, it will also break if you take even a sniff of damage (please remember this isn't stealth we're talking about it's a magic cloaked invisibility, I'm not buying that it should break from a DOT, you don't see Bolt Escape breaking if a DOT is on the Sorc), it will also break if you've placed a DOT like Cripple on them.

They are both totally broken, have been acknowledged as broken and we've been waiting around 3 months for something to happen.

Cody

BOTH forms of cloak are still broken. heck, iv had dark cloak break in PvE! if it breaks in PvE, how the heck can I use it in PvP? answer: I can't.

It should not break from every tiny bit of damage. that REALLY annoys me. even your own DoTs break you out. it came to the point a month back that I almost replaced it with something else. they need to fix it. stop adding broken grind zones and fix our abilities!

CapuchinSeven

Cody wrote: »

It should not break from every tiny bit of damage.

I agree, we're not talking about stealth here we're talking about a 2.5 second invisibility spell. Literally everything breaks it and it's gotten to be so useless (because for every time someone might see it work well for me, there are 7 other times when it just breaks) I've dropped it from my bow bar and replaced it with Cripple for the Ultimate build up (because frankly the Cripple part of Cripple is pretty useless as well), which comically, I couldn't use while using Dark Cloak because my own Cripple DOT would break the cloak.

Like most things in this game if you actually want a reliable Nightblade build you may as well put on a dress, get a staff, cap magic and spell damage and spam Strafe while holding down block.

khele23eb17_ESO

Cody wrote: »

BOTH forms of cloak are still broken. heck, iv had dark cloak break in PvE! if it breaks in PvE, how the heck can I use it in PvP? answer: I can't.

It should not break from every tiny bit of damage. that REALLY annoys me. even your own DoTs break you out. it came to the point a month back that I almost replaced it with something else. they need to fix it. stop adding broken grind zones and fix our abilities!

It should also not be negated by pots and magelight. They should work to reveal sneaking not a skill lasting 3 seconds costing a truckload of magicka.

Vizier

Thudunblundur wrote: »

It seems that DOTs on you break you out of Invis. Shadowy disguise doesn't remove dots where Dark Cloak does. I use Dark cloak and rarely have problems with Invisibility breaking...

I use Dark Cloak and am constantly getting popped out of cloak so that I have to spam it every .5 seconds on a regular basis to have any chance of getting out of a sticky situation. Half the time that doesn't work. Additionally it's not removing the number of effects it is supposed to. From what I can tell it only removes one and not even that much of the time.

Shadow Cloak and it's morphed forms IS broken. It's still somewhat useful in that it works out about 1/2 the time but with added magicka cost due to the need to spam it.

Shadow Cloak should have advantage over stealth in that it doesn't pop merely for taking a little damage like from Calthrops. It has a considerable magicka cost for the limited time it can be used And it should never be hampered or inhibited by the NB's own abilities. Heals, swallow soul, path of darkness shouldn't interfere in anyway with Shadow Cloak.

that said it is unclear as to exactly what is the problem with SC since there are so many possibilities at this point as to what interferes with SC.

Cody

Vizier wrote: »

Thudunblundur wrote: »

It seems that DOTs on you break you out of Invis. Shadowy disguise doesn't remove dots where Dark Cloak does. I use Dark cloak and rarely have problems with Invisibility breaking...

I use Dark Cloak and am constantly getting popped out of cloak so that I have to spam it every .5 seconds on a regular basis to have any chance of getting out of a sticky situation. Half the time that doesn't work. Additionally it's not removing the number of effects it is supposed to. From what I can tell it only removes one and even that much of the time.

Shadow Cloak and it's morphed forms IS broken. It's still somewhat useful in that it works out about 1/2 the time but with added magicka cost due to the need to spam it.

Shadow Cloak should have advantage over stealth in that it doesn't pop merely for taking a little damage like from Calthrops. It has a considerable magicka cost for the limited time it can be used And it should never be hampered or inhibited by the NB's own abilities. Heals, swallow soul, path of darkness shouldn't interfere in anyway with Shadow Cloak.

that said it is unclear as to exactly what is the problem with SC since there are so many possibilities at this point as to what interferes with SC.

they just need to make cloak not break from damage, make it undetectable by potions and magelight, fix it to where it wont break half the dang time, and make its intended effects actually work. if they wont do that, they need to reduce the magicka cost by a ton. If I have to spam a 2 and a half second invisibility spell over and over again just to make it work, it may as well be cheap to cast.

heck, there is no real reason to use cloak as things are now. The invisibility potions make you invisible for longer,they don't bug out, and can be bought by the 100s. you could say "but cloak has special morph abilities" well... those kinda don't work. I don't think iv ever noticed any criticals from shadowy disguise.

khele23eb17_ESO

Cody wrote: »

heck, there is no real reason to use cloak as things are now. The invisibility potions make you invisible for longer,they don't bug out, and can be bought by the 100s. you could say "but cloak has special morph abilities" well... those kinda don't work. I don't think iv ever noticed any criticals from shadowy disguise.

While I agree with most of what you wrote... I dont agree with the shadowy disguise not providing crit. That part works quite reliably for me. Get Combat Cloud and set it up so that crits are shown in a different color - red for example. You'll see.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Yup, this one is still waiting for Shadow Cloak (and it's Morph's) to be fixed.

It has only been like 5 months, give or take since the game went live with early access.

For the Nighblade, this should be the number one, "1", thing that ZOS should be working on to be fixed now in this class. Either Fix it or lower the Magicka cost to like a third.

Imagine if the DK's Green Dragon Blood ability failed to heal the DK like less than half the time, think of all the screams and yells this would get if it went on for like 5 months, this would be the equivalent to the Nightblades Shadow Cloak not working. Welcome to our world.

So as a Avid Gamer of ESO and lover of the Nightblade class (I have three Nightblade Characters), and a customer who buys a 6 month sub, and will buy another, ZOS please fix this.

PS- After this is fixed, ZOS will only need to fix the Stamina / Magicka imbalance in the game and then more than likely I will never complain ever again. I will be one satisfied and happy customer.

Cody

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

heck, there is no real reason to use cloak as things are now. The invisibility potions make you invisible for longer,they don't bug out, and can be bought by the 100s. you could say "but cloak has special morph abilities" well... those kinda don't work. I don't think iv ever noticed any criticals from shadowy disguise.

While I agree with most of what you wrote... I dont agree with the shadowy disguise not providing crit. That part works quite reliably for me. Get Combat Cloud and set it up so that crits are shown in a different color - red for example. You'll see.

then the critical damage must not be very much.

khele23eb17_ESO

Cody wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

heck, there is no real reason to use cloak as things are now. The invisibility potions make you invisible for longer,they don't bug out, and can be bought by the 100s. you could say "but cloak has special morph abilities" well... those kinda don't work. I don't think iv ever noticed any criticals from shadowy disguise.

While I agree with most of what you wrote... I dont agree with the shadowy disguise not providing crit. That part works quite reliably for me. Get Combat Cloud and set it up so that crits are shown in a different color - red for example. You'll see.

then the critical damage must not be very much.

AFAIK its 50% not counting any passives or a mundus stone.

R0M2K

Cody wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Thudunblundur wrote: »

It seems that DOTs on you break you out of Invis. Shadowy disguise doesn't remove dots where Dark Cloak does. I use Dark cloak and rarely have problems with Invisibility breaking...

I use Dark Cloak and am constantly getting popped out of cloak so that I have to spam it every .5 seconds on a regular basis to have any chance of getting out of a sticky situation. Half the time that doesn't work. Additionally it's not removing the number of effects it is supposed to. From what I can tell it only removes one and even that much of the time.

Shadow Cloak and it's morphed forms IS broken. It's still somewhat useful in that it works out about 1/2 the time but with added magicka cost due to the need to spam it.

Shadow Cloak should have advantage over stealth in that it doesn't pop merely for taking a little damage like from Calthrops. It has a considerable magicka cost for the limited time it can be used And it should never be hampered or inhibited by the NB's own abilities. Heals, swallow soul, path of darkness shouldn't interfere in anyway with Shadow Cloak.

that said it is unclear as to exactly what is the problem with SC since there are so many possibilities at this point as to what interferes with SC.

they just need to make cloak not break from damage, make it undetectable by potions and magelight, fix it to where it wont break half the dang time, and make its intended effects actually work. if they wont do that, they need to reduce the magicka cost by a ton. If I have to spam a 2 and a half second invisibility spell over and over again just to make it work, it may as well be cheap to cast.

heck, there is no real reason to use cloak as things are now. The invisibility potions make you invisible for longer,they don't bug out, and can be bought by the 100s. you could say "but cloak has special morph abilities" well... those kinda don't work. I don't think iv ever noticed any criticals from shadowy disguise.

Agree.

qiyamatawilrwb17_ESO

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem is that any DoT you do break invis

agreed. from what i have seen snares on your target will break ur cloak.
try a kynes flight set. u can manage stealth between kills (before you attack the next target) but it really doesnt feel like it should be happening.
its wasted magicka just to try.

Wahee

Agree with what others have said. There is no reason not to make cloak unbreakable. You'll still take the damage, and with one change you have an easy fix to all of the bugs currently affecting cloak.

I'd bet the ability to go invis is the main reason most people picked NB in the first place, and its been broken for months. Heck, it's been a "known issue" for months.

Imagine if other classes dot skills were incompatible with their survivability skills.

Templar: Using vampire's bane causes blazing shield to break instantly and do zero damage.

DK: Using unstable flame causes green dragon blood to heal for zero when the dot is active.

Sorc: While mage's fury is active on a target, streak fails to move the player foreword and does not stun.

Can you even imagine? How broken would the other classes be if they had to deal with what we've dealt with since launch. It is absolutely unacceptable that a classes core mechanic has been bugged for months.

TLDR: Make cloak unbreakable. Easy fix for all of the bugs and makes cloak able to function as intended without upsetting balance.

Kego

Any news for a fix @zos_abigailT ?
I look at Patch 1.4 and still can't see a fix for a major Bug of a complete class!

CapuchinSeven

Kego wrote: »

Any news for a fix @zos_abigailT ?
I look at Patch 1.4 and still can't see a fix for a major Bug of a complete class!

Nah I don't think we'll see anything, I've pretty much stated elsewhere that I'm going to kill my sub if there isn't some sort of fix for unbreakable CC in the next major patch but Dark Cloak is up there as well, we had a small mention about it 3 months ago and that's been the end of it.

It USED to work, I don't understand what's going on, can we get some sort of feed back? Is this intended and the way it's meant to be, if so actually letting us know that might help.

Nestor

I use Invisibility skill and it works for me. As soon as I cast it, the enemies stop hitting me, and even go out of combat. This allows me to reposition myself, or even go into Sneak to get nice critical off. I can also use it to sneak closer to an enemy to get off a sneak critical melee attack.

I also use it to give me a boost in protection from the passives that buff when coming out of sneak. I don' think it gives a critical just from using it though, although it seems to be a nice 1-2 combo with Hidden Blade.

CapuchinSeven

Nestor wrote: »

I use Invisibility skill and it works for me. As soon as I cast it, the enemies stop hitting me, and even go out of combat. This allows me to reposition myself, or even go into Sneak to get nice critical off. I can also use it to sneak closer to an enemy to get off a sneak critical melee attack.

I also use it to give me a boost in protection from the passives that buff when coming out of sneak. I don' think it gives a critical just from using it though, although it seems to be a nice 1-2 combo with Hidden Blade.

Most issues are PVP issues to be fair.

Vizier

@Nestor‌

It's a PvP / Cyrodiil thing. There are times when Shadow Cloak doesn't work on ai either. They keep attacking despite having gone into cloak and actually follow you around.

Issues are:

2.5 second cloak turns to .5 second cloak due to dots, negative effects and some positive effects.

dots not negating on SC activation as they are supposed to with Morphed ability.

Crit % not working on activation of SC with Morphed SC.

Activation not breaking combat nor providing ability to stealth after activation despite being far from any players or NPC.

NPC continue to attack and follow NB after SC has been activated.

Friendly and self effects appear to break SC thus causing undue spam of ability and Magicka drain.

Some abilities from other classes still will target and activate against a NB while SC is activated like charge skills. A clear indicator combat is not being broken for NB after SC is activated.

If SC was working as designed the above problems would not exits and NB would be much more competitive in PvP. As the primary or signature NB ability I would hope ZOS gets on the ball and fixes this ability. This above all else has a ton of NB players on the verge of unsubbing. Many already rerolled other classes to replace the NB but still have a bad taste in their mouths over the whole issue. (it's been way too long a broken skill)

Nestor

Vizier wrote: »

@Nestor‌

It's a PvP / Cyrodiil thing. There are times when Shadow Cloak doesn't work on ai either. They keep attacking despite having gone into cloak and actually follow you around.

Ahh, that would suck then. As I said, it's a pretty powerful skill in PvE and it not working as intended in PvP would be a bad thing.

Although I tend to use it more lately to sneak past things like Gargoyles. I killed enough to know I can beat them, so it gets kind of academic to fight them over and over again. I would rather fight 3/4 mobs, those are more fun.

Cody

Vizier wrote: »

@Nestor‌

It's a PvP / Cyrodiil thing. There are times when Shadow Cloak doesn't work on ai either. They keep attacking despite having gone into cloak and actually follow you around.

Issues are:

2.5 second cloak turns to .5 second cloak due to dots, negative effects and some positive effects.

dots not negating on SC activation as they are supposed to with Morphed ability.

Crit % not working on activation of SC with Morphed SC.

Activation not breaking combat nor providing ability to stealth after activation despite being far from any players or NPC.

NPC continue to attack and follow NB after SC has been activated.

Friendly and self effects appear to break SC thus causing undue spam of ability and Magicka drain.

Some abilities from other classes still will target and activate against a NB while SC is activated like charge skills. A clear indicator combat is not being broken for NB after SC is activated.

If SC was working as designed the above problems would not exits and NB would be much more competitive in PvP. As the primary or signature NB ability I would hope ZOS gets on the ball and fixes this ability. This above all else has a ton of NB players on the verge of unsubbing. Many already rerolled other classes to replace the NB but still have a bad taste in their mouths over the whole issue. (it's been way too long a broken skill)

cloak needs to work EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Templar blazing shield works every single time(as does their heals)
DK dragons blood works every single time
sorcerers BE works every single time

There is NO excuse for cloak to not be working. NONE. its the most important ability of the class, and is the main reason many people picked the class to begin with(im one of those people, so I know how those people feel)

It works just fine in PvE(though every now and then it will break, at least that's my experience of it) but in PvP its very hard to use. not to mention some of the NBs best abilities, have to be used with cloak(veiled strike is only good when use from stealth or invisibility, with cloak not working, veiled strike is really hard to use, there are other abilities that go well with cloak) not to mention the class lackss a spammable survival ability of of its own. the very least ZOS could do is make its most important ability work.
EVENTUALLY ZOS will fix it. Hopefully before every single NB in this game un-subs/quits using the class. The NB is an awesome class, and I, and many others, would hate to see it shunned and forgotten all because ZOS refused to fix an ability.

Vizier

@‌Cody
Agreed +1. No arguments from me bro. We are talking the same language.

Grim13

This is my number one reason for questioning my continued support of this game.

TheBull

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
Closing in on the 4 month mark with the same issues. It would be nice to get an update.

Artis

Silly, that invisibility doesn't include sneaking. NBs are weak enough not to crit from behind using Dark Cloak (just like when you start a fight from behind, sneaking)

Asgari

TheBull wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
Closing in on the 4 month mark with the same issues. It would be nice to get an update.

Agreed.