Update 4 API Patch Notes & Change Log (PTS)

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

ESO UI API Patch Notes (Version 100009)
These patch notes highlight the larger changes to the ESO API. For the full, updated API, please take a look at the newest version of the ESO UI documentation.

Guild History
The guild history now keeps events around for longer. Events in the GUILD_HISTORY_GENERAL category will stay around the longest, while events in high volume categories will not last quite as long. There was also a restructuring of the guild history events and event categories with some events added and some events removed.

New Guild Events

• GUILD_EVENT_ABOUT_US_EDITED
• GUILD_EVENT_GUILD_BANK_LOCKED
• GUILD_EVENT_GUILD_BANK_UNLOCKED
• GUILD_EVENT_KIOSK_LOCKED
• GUILD_EVENT_KIOSK_UNLOCKED
• GUILD_EVENT_STANDARD_LOCKED
• GUILD_EVENT_STANDARD_UNLOCKED
• GUILD_EVENT_STORE_LOCKED
• GUILD_EVENT_STORE_UNLOCKED
• GUILD_EVENT_TABARD_LOCKED
• GUILD_EVENT_TABARD_UNLOCKED
• GUILD_EVENT_MOTD_EDITED

Removed Guild Events

• GUILD_EVENT_GUILD_INVITE
• GUILD_EVENT_GUILD_REMOVE
• GUILD_EVENT_GUILD_DELETE
• GUILD_EVENT_GUILD_INVITEREVOKED
• GUILD_EVENT_GUILD_INVITEDECLINED
• GUILD_EVENT_GUILD_INVITEPURGED
• GUILD_EVENT_NAME_CHANGED
• GUILD_EVENT_BANKGOLD_PURCHASE_HERALDRY
• GUILD_EVENT_BANKGOLD_GUILD_STORE_TAX

The guild events have been re-categorized into these new categories:

Changed GUILD_HISTORY Enumeration

• GUILD_HISTORY_ALLIANCE_WAR
• GUILD_HISTORY_BANK
• GUILD_HISTORY_COMBAT
• GUILD_HISTORY_GENERAL
• GUILD_HISTORY_STORE

Item Link API
The item link API has been further expanded.

New Item Link Functions

• DoesItemLinkStartQuest
• DoesItemLinkFinishQuest
• IsItemLinkRecipeKnown
• GetItemLinkRecipeResultItemLink
• GetItemLinkRecipeNumIngredients
• GetItemLinkRecipeIngredientInfo
• GetItemLinkRecipeRankRequirement
• GetItemLinkRecipeQualityRequirement
• GetItemLinkReagentTraitInfo
• GetItemLinkItemStyle
• GetItemLinkRefinedMaterialItemLink
• GetItemLinkMaterialLevelDescription
• IsItemLinkOnlyUsableFromQuickslot

Ability Id API
Added some new functions to query ability id for use with ability id based functions.

Added Functions

• GetAbilityProgressionAbilityId
• GetSkillAbilityId

Achievement Rewards
The achievement reward API no longer accepts an index. Instead, functions have been created for each reward type that return specific information about that reward.

Changed Functions

• GetAchievementItemLink
  • Returns the item link representing the achievement reward item if one exists. No longer takes a reward index as a parameter.

Added Functions

• GetAchievementRewardPoints
• GetAchievementRewardItem
• GetAchievementRewardTitle
• GetAchievementRewardDye

Removed Functions

• GetAchievementRewardInfo

Crafting Styles
It is now possible to learn specific patterns from a style without learning every pattern in a style. This has led to a few API changes.

Changed Functions

• IsSmithingStyleKnown
  • Now requires a pattern index in addition to the style index.

Changed Events

• EVENT_STYLE_LEARNED
  • Now also supplies a chapter index for chapter of the style book that was learned.

Added ITEM_STYLE_CHAPTER enumeration


Blend Modes
The Color Dodge blend mode was added for UI textures. It can be selected by setting the blendMode in XML to “COLOR_DODGE” or setting the blend mode using the lua setter with TEX_BLEND_MODE_COLOR_DODGE as the parameter.


Miscellaneous Functions

Added Functions

• SetShouldRenderWorld
  • If set to true, prevents the world from being rendered. Can be used to improve the performance of full screen windows.
• GetIsNewCharacter
  • Returns true if this is the first time a new character has logged in.
• RequestMoveItem
  • Offers a more direct way to move an item than picking it up and placing it.
• HasSynergyEffects
• GetGroupIndexByUnitTag
• IsBlockActive
• IsArmorEffectivenessReduced
• GetEnchantmentSearchCategories
• GetFirstKnownStyleIndex
• TextureControl:GetTextureUV, TextureControl:SetTextureUV
  • Allows you to set and get the UV coordinates of each point (the four corners) on a texture control.

Changed Functions

• GetRaidLeaderboardInfo
  • Now also returns a raid category (RAID_CATEGORY_TRIAL or RAID_CATEGORY_CHALLENGE).
• GetNumLastCraftingResultItems
  • Now named GetNumLastCraftingResultItemsAndPenalty. Returns if a level based penalty was applied in addition to the number of results.
• TooltipControl: SetAchievementRewardItem
  • No longer takes a reward item index.
• Miscellaneous Events

Changed Events

• EVENT_CHAT_MESSAGE_CHANNEL
  • Added field for isCustomerService.
• EVENT_DISCOVERY_EXPERIENCE
  • Added fields for the veteran points granted and the current veteran rank at the time the discovery happens.

Miscellaneous Enumerations

Added values to ITEM_TRAIT_TYPE

• ITEM_TRAIT_TYPE_ARMOR_NIRNHONED
• ITEM_TRAIT_TYPE_WEAPON_NIRNHONED

Attorneyatlawl

Thanks for posting the api updates promptly.

Maverick827

Can we please have access to guild trial time notifications so we can make addons to turn them off ourselves?

Awdwyn

Am I reading this right? By crafting pattern are we talking a specific item (legs/chest)?

Am I on he right track inferring that instead of motif books that teach everything in a style that you will instead find chapters which teach only a subset of the items in that style, so you'd need to procure all the chapters in that style to make a full body set of armour in that style?

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Awdwyn wrote: »

Am I reading this right? By crafting pattern are we talking a specific item (legs/chest)?

Am I on he right track inferring that instead of motif books that teach everything in a style that you will instead find chapters which teach only a subset of the items in that style, so you'd need to procure all the chapters in that style to make a full body set of armour in that style?

Would have been a good thing to add to the patch notes if it is.... Oops - they - did it again.

nusphere_ESO

Thanks for this informations.

Is there any possibility to request the buffs/debuffs on the target?!
This is such a important information for raidgroups ...

i don't know the reason, why they are not accessable in the API - but we don't play a single player game - so all debuffs (also from my group) are important.

95% of all debuffs don't stack!

there are 2 options ... let us now, what debuffs are on boss (and lets play a MMO) or let all debuffs stack (and lets play SinglePlayer)

the actual situation isn't for teamplay! when your idea is, that we should look for the skilleffects - then try this as mage in a running situation from a distance ... as tank you could see some effects ... but as a ranged play.

Also i will see as healer - when the mutagen isn't running at my group ... we play a team game an buffs and debuffs are an important point in an MMO.

killabunny1234b16_ESO

nusphere_ESO
"Is there any possibility to request the buffs/debuffs on the target?!
This is such a important information for raidgroups ..."

this is something I and almost all raiders want as well. its quite vital to be able to see healing effects were off or be overwritten by other players spells, and it's nice to be able to see your dots on a boss.
I know you can see the effect on a player or nps just by looking at them, but what about when you have 4 people using the same spell on a single target?

please let addons like FTC track real time buffs of players and debuffs on NPC's
please please please

nusphere_ESO

also its important, when you got a buff!

i.e combat prayer --- i would like to see this buff on myself, when a healer cast it. or i wanna see if i got the strengh buff from Power of the Light (templer skill) this could be a trigger to start ulti ...

also i wanna see how long War horn is working on me!

I think everbody wanna see the buff or debuff on a boss / target...
also, everbody wanna see buff or debuff on hisself...

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_KaiSchober‌

Attorneyatlawl

@killabunny1234b16_ESO, @nusphere_ESO‌, I think everyone wants to be able to see their own buffs/debuffs, and what hit them in their combat log (not the last 5 when you die only, inside of the recap window, but their actual combat log for review and real-time info) like we used to be able to. You guys are right.

However, the history behind this is that a rather kneejerk decision was made right before launch due to an outcry of people (mostly single-player fans) claiming it would wreck their immersion to let raiders and pvp'ers have these options, even in addons, that questers disliking them could simply have not installed an addon for or enabled in the settings . Even ones about your own character that have nothing to do with them! I truly hope they re-examine their stance on the severely lacking API functionality and UI at large in the near future. These sorts of complaints I hear every single day from people who do raids or are heavy pvp'ers, and echo them myself.

Heck, they have even been one major factor in a pvp guild I knew from beta that was regularly running a hardcore 12-man pvp setup zergbusting (BiS) for months during beta and a couple after launch, to quit the game and move onto pastures they feel are friendlier to players wanting to play the game and the mechanics, not the shiny graphics alone. They felt starved for info and found it a constant frustration and battle to play in the dark due to the API changes and lack of information in the stock UI.

Many disagreed at the time, and it's pointless to re-hash the arguments that lead to the decision. Obviously, ZOS made the call they thought would be best for their company's product and sales. No one can fault that, and that was a responsible move that I'm sure was made on what they felt was the best call at that point in time. However, I think time has shown that it was the wrong move, ultimately.

Why I can't see what buffs are on my own character or debuffs on enemies, see what abilities are hitting ME, etc. even using an addon, is beyond me. Why I can't have a simple minimap or multi-quest tracking like used to be present, again... beyond me, as optional items. Same goes for nametags/guild tags optionally for socialization and identifying allies/enemies (obviously they would fade like chevrons as appropriate both distance and in stealth), or a simple combat log tab as used to be present in-game on the chat box, or a castbar option for my own casts (not enemy ones), etc. I could go on for hours with things large and small needing examining and improvement, and really hope ZOS spends the time doing the same.

If I had to name THREE major things that would bring this game to the next level and help its success after 1.4 hits live, they would be:

1) Fix the UI. Improve it to modern game standards, minimalism is not the same thing as lacking core functionality. You can make a minimalist UI that still provides needed gameplay info for everyone, and allow those who want to ignore it to do so by disabling the settings.

2) Fix the camera options, as well as all kinds of quality of life features such as guild store searches, mail system having a huge & random delay a lot of the time, and other general issues. These problems give a very bad first impression to new players, as well as frustrate people on a day-to-day basis.

3) Fix the rewards system for both pve and pvp to be much much more meaningful and not have crafted gear be the vast majority of the best in the game, which takes no progression or skill to obtain but rather simply grinding out a moderate amount of gold to obtain often best-in-slot purple gear that someone can make for you in 10 minutes' time.

Tagging this as there is a lot of good feedback in this thread that impacts both pve and pvp combined...
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ @ZOS_KaiSchober‌ .

nusphere_ESO

Should we do a poll?

the functionality is available in API but disabled! ... so they only should reactivat it!

and all of my guildies and mates are using addons to got some informatione...

Things they want to know:

- how many damage does this attack
- what kind of dmg dows this attack
- how many life has my target
- what buffs are onmyself
- what debuffs are on my target

The problem is, that some Addons try to give us the illusion for buff/debuff tracking ... but they only track keyhits... and don't check distance or internal cooldown ... also they only listen own keyhits ...

and so everbody thinks its buggy! ...

Merlight

nusphere_ESO wrote: »

Should we do a poll?

the functionality is available in API but disabled! ... so they only should reactivat it!

A poll to reactivate features that were removed per user request? Well go ahead. If the poll is 1) leave everyone in the dark; 2) enlighten those with a specific set of add-ons; then I vote 1)

nusphere_ESO

@Merlight‌
could you explain your meaning, please?

Merlight

nusphere_ESO wrote: »

@Merlight‌
could you explain your meaning, please?

From what I read, ZOS stance on this is that add-ons should not give you an edge in combat over someone not using them. In other words, that add-ons should not be considered a requirement for competitive play. It's pretty clear they can't achieve that goal 100% without removing add-ons completely. Even such simple things like UI improvements (quickslot selection add-ons for example), give you an advantage. They will, however, try to keep this as low as possible.

If there is to be genuine buff/debuff tracking, it has to be a core game feature, not something you can only get from an add-on. Personally I don't care whether ZOS adds it or not. Of course if they add it, I will happily stop running around unbuffed, or wasting magicka on early rebuffs. But I don't feel like not seeing ticking buffs/debuffs hinders my enjoyment of the game in any way.

I used the phrase "leave everyone in the dark" in reference to Attorneyatlawl's post above, I just liked it for bringing up memories of Alone in the dark But also to point that specific case - that there were players who "felt starved for info and found it a constant frustration and battle to play in the dark" - it's unfortunate that they got used to beta add-ons so much, but if playing without removed add-on API equals playing in the dark, then it wouldn't be fair to give light exclusevely to add-on users, don't you think?

Attorneyatlawl

Oh, I think it should be core available functionality. Don't get me wrong on that, these basics are not normally relegated to addons .

nusphere_ESO

@Merlight‌
okay, i understund. This is more a PvP thing.
But who in PvP is running without addons?! ...

Attorneyatlawl

nusphere_ESO wrote: »

@Merlight‌
okay, i understund. This is more a PvP thing.
But who in PvP is running without addons?! ...

It's also a raiding issue, speaking as someone who does both pvp and hardmode raids + speedruns. Also impacts theorycrafting and general gameplay a large amount.

Sunrock

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@killabunny1234b16_ESO, @nusphere_ESO‌, I think everyone wants to be able to see their own buffs/debuffs, and what hit them in their combat log (not the last 5 when you die only, inside of the recap window, but their actual combat log for review and real-time info) like we used to be able to. You guys are right.

However, the history behind this is that a rather kneejerk decision was made right before launch due to an outcry of people (mostly single-player fans) claiming it would wreck their immersion to let raiders and pvp'ers have these options, even in addons, that questers disliking them could simply have not installed an addon for or enabled in the settings . Even ones about your own character that have nothing to do with them! I truly hope they re-examine their stance on the severely lacking API functionality and UI at large in the near future. These sorts of complaints I hear every single day from people who do raids or are heavy pvp'ers, and echo them myself.

*snip*

You are wrong. It was hardcore PvPers that cried about having this options because it would be too mush of an advantage for average skilled players.

We hardcore players know how to read this without the addons so giving this to average players would take away our advantage over skilled players. In other words take away our skills and allow addons to be handicap tools for those that are unskilled.

If you think you need this addons you are not a skilled PvPer or skilled player at all to begin with.

I have been playing allot of different MMORPGs quite hardcore over the last 15 years. And the most challenging Raids and PvP have been in those that does not allow any addons what so ever. Because addons do remove player skills. Addons = handicap tools there is not question about it.

Those Hardcore guilds that QQ over that you can't do X with addons is because they realize they are not as good as they think they are. And I have no understanding or empathy for those posers that want it.

katkat42

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ Is the attached file still going to be the valid API for the released version of Update 4, or have there been changes since the file was released? I just want to double-check.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

katkat42 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ Is the attached file still going to be the valid API for the released version of Update 4, or have there been changes since the file was released? I just want to double-check.

The attached file will be valid for the release of Update 4, but we're currently looking into a bug that is on PTS, related to missing visual feedback on the ability bar when an ability is used.

Attorneyatlawl

Sunrock wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@killabunny1234b16_ESO, @nusphere_ESO‌, I think everyone wants to be able to see their own buffs/debuffs, and what hit them in their combat log (not the last 5 when you die only, inside of the recap window, but their actual combat log for review and real-time info) like we used to be able to. You guys are right.

However, the history behind this is that a rather kneejerk decision was made right before launch due to an outcry of people (mostly single-player fans) claiming it would wreck their immersion to let raiders and pvp'ers have these options, even in addons, that questers disliking them could simply have not installed an addon for or enabled in the settings . Even ones about your own character that have nothing to do with them! I truly hope they re-examine their stance on the severely lacking API functionality and UI at large in the near future. These sorts of complaints I hear every single day from people who do raids or are heavy pvp'ers, and echo them myself.

*snip*

You are wrong. It was hardcore PvPers that cried about having this options because it would be too mush of an advantage for average skilled players.

We hardcore players know how to read this without the addons so giving this to average players would take away our advantage over skilled players. In other words take away our skills and allow addons to be handicap tools for those that are unskilled.

If you think you need this addons you are not a skilled PvPer or skilled player at all to begin with.

I have been playing allot of different MMORPGs quite hardcore over the last 15 years. And the most challenging Raids and PvP have been in those that does not allow any addons what so ever. Because addons do remove player skills. Addons = handicap tools there is not question about it.

Those Hardcore guilds that QQ over that you can't do X with addons is because they realize they are not as good as they think they are. And I have no understanding or empathy for those posers that want it.

Actually, and I can dig up the posts by Paul Sage if you'd like, the reason was exactly as I stated, that it was too immersion-breaking and allowed players to force you into playing other than "how you wanted". The only API nerf most agreed on was seeing enemy magicka/stamina numbers, generally. Ignoring your post's condescending tone, which holds little weight to me seeing as how I don't even recognize your name, having basics like combat logs and seeing numbers on your health bar has nothing to do with a handicap so much as basic game information .

Sunrock

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sunrock wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@killabunny1234b16_ESO, @nusphere_ESO‌, I think everyone wants to be able to see their own buffs/debuffs, and what hit them in their combat log (not the last 5 when you die only, inside of the recap window, but their actual combat log for review and real-time info) like we used to be able to. You guys are right.

However, the history behind this is that a rather kneejerk decision was made right before launch due to an outcry of people (mostly single-player fans) claiming it would wreck their immersion to let raiders and pvp'ers have these options, even in addons, that questers disliking them could simply have not installed an addon for or enabled in the settings . Even ones about your own character that have nothing to do with them! I truly hope they re-examine their stance on the severely lacking API functionality and UI at large in the near future. These sorts of complaints I hear every single day from people who do raids or are heavy pvp'ers, and echo them myself.

*snip*

You are wrong. It was hardcore PvPers that cried about having this options because it would be too mush of an advantage for average skilled players.

We hardcore players know how to read this without the addons so giving this to average players would take away our advantage over skilled players. In other words take away our skills and allow addons to be handicap tools for those that are unskilled.

If you think you need this addons you are not a skilled PvPer or skilled player at all to begin with.

I have been playing allot of different MMORPGs quite hardcore over the last 15 years. And the most challenging Raids and PvP have been in those that does not allow any addons what so ever. Because addons do remove player skills. Addons = handicap tools there is not question about it.

Those Hardcore guilds that QQ over that you can't do X with addons is because they realize they are not as good as they think they are. And I have no understanding or empathy for those posers that want it.

Actually, and I can dig up the posts by Paul Sage if you'd like, the reason was exactly as I stated, that it was too immersion-breaking and allowed players to force you into playing other than "how you wanted". The only API nerf most agreed on was seeing enemy magicka/stamina numbers, generally. Ignoring your post's condescending tone, which holds little weight to me seeing as how I don't even recognize your name, having basics like combat logs and seeing numbers on your health bar has nothing to do with a handicap so much as basic game information .

And I should know who you are? Like it would even matter. But there should not have been any addons in this game to start with. I know how good I am and that is enough for me. If you don't believe me when I tell you It's irrelevant too, but know what I say is true.

First of all combat logs and seeing numbers on your health bar is already allowed in the API. But it is a handicap tool. And I mean handicap in the same way you talking about handicap in golf terms. It is a tool to help you understand what happened during combat something I can see instinctively without the need of reading the combat logs because of my long experience of play games way too mush.

And yes I am condescending to all those wannabe "l33t" players who wants UI and scripts to play the game for them. They are not worthy to be allowed to play any online games. They have ruin the fun for me by QQ'ing about making the games easier in too many games for my liking.

Paul Sage might blamed it on that. But allot of old school veteran MMORPG players did not want it either. Not that there are many of us around anymore.

Rhazmuz

Sunrock wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sunrock wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@killabunny1234b16_ESO, @nusphere_ESO‌, I think everyone wants to be able to see their own buffs/debuffs, and what hit them in their combat log (not the last 5 when you die only, inside of the recap window, but their actual combat log for review and real-time info) like we used to be able to. You guys are right.

However, the history behind this is that a rather kneejerk decision was made right before launch due to an outcry of people (mostly single-player fans) claiming it would wreck their immersion to let raiders and pvp'ers have these options, even in addons, that questers disliking them could simply have not installed an addon for or enabled in the settings . Even ones about your own character that have nothing to do with them! I truly hope they re-examine their stance on the severely lacking API functionality and UI at large in the near future. These sorts of complaints I hear every single day from people who do raids or are heavy pvp'ers, and echo them myself.

*snip*

You are wrong. It was hardcore PvPers that cried about having this options because it would be too mush of an advantage for average skilled players.

We hardcore players know how to read this without the addons so giving this to average players would take away our advantage over skilled players. In other words take away our skills and allow addons to be handicap tools for those that are unskilled.

If you think you need this addons you are not a skilled PvPer or skilled player at all to begin with.

I have been playing allot of different MMORPGs quite hardcore over the last 15 years. And the most challenging Raids and PvP have been in those that does not allow any addons what so ever. Because addons do remove player skills. Addons = handicap tools there is not question about it.

Those Hardcore guilds that QQ over that you can't do X with addons is because they realize they are not as good as they think they are. And I have no understanding or empathy for those posers that want it.

Actually, and I can dig up the posts by Paul Sage if you'd like, the reason was exactly as I stated, that it was too immersion-breaking and allowed players to force you into playing other than "how you wanted". The only API nerf most agreed on was seeing enemy magicka/stamina numbers, generally. Ignoring your post's condescending tone, which holds little weight to me seeing as how I don't even recognize your name, having basics like combat logs and seeing numbers on your health bar has nothing to do with a handicap so much as basic game information .

And I should know who you are? Like it would even matter. But there should not have been any addons in this game to start with. I know how good I am and that is enough for me. If you don't believe me when I tell you It's irrelevant too, but know what I say is true.

First of all combat logs and seeing numbers on your health bar is already allowed in the API. But it is a handicap tool. And I mean handicap in the same way you talking about handicap in golf terms. It is a tool to help you understand what happened during combat something I can see instinctively without the need of reading the combat logs because of my long experience of play games way too mush.

And yes I am condescending to all those wannabe "l33t" players who wants UI and scripts to play the game for them. They are not worthy to be allowed to play any online games. They have ruin the fun for me by QQ'ing about making the games easier in too many games for my liking.

Paul Sage might blamed it on that. But allot of old school veteran MMORPG players did not want it either. Not that there are many of us around anymore.

Who cares what you "old school veteran" players want, if there are so few of you left? If you know you are badass witthout mods, dont use them. But for us "lesser" players, what is the issue with some hand holding, so we can be on pair with the pros like you?

Wykkyd

@Sunrock‌, @Attorneyatlawl‌ is one of the best players in the game. Hands down. And your tone, and attack, against him is absolutely unwarranted and loses you a lot of credibility.

He is absolutely right in the reason that ZOS used to remove the features. It doesn't matter what you agree with, the reason is accurate and real. Insisting otherwise and getting uppity doesn't make you right. How strongly you disagree with why they chose to remove the features, simply because you feel like it was for another reason, doesn't make you right.

Some of us were there when it happened.

Some of us were addon developers affected by the nerf when it happened.

And then there are those who make assumptions and think they know what's going on... like you.

It's not a matter of hand holding versus not. It's a matter of: This is simple information that SHOULD be available because it actually lets even self-proclaimed skilled players make better and more informed decisions than they could have without the information. Be that information present in the default UI or an addon is irrelevant to the purpose.

And speaking as an addon developer, I'd much rather ALL of the work I do be baked into the default UI, leaving me with 0 addons to develop so that I could focus on playing the game instead of "fixing" the game. So before you retort with the ultra-intelligent slam about me arguing my side simply because I make addons, know that you are instantly wrong if you choose to do so.

Smiteye

Sunrock wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sunrock wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@killabunny1234b16_ESO, @nusphere_ESO‌, I think everyone wants to be able to see their own buffs/debuffs, and what hit them in their combat log (not the last 5 when you die only, inside of the recap window, but their actual combat log for review and real-time info) like we used to be able to. You guys are right.

However, the history behind this is that a rather kneejerk decision was made right before launch due to an outcry of people (mostly single-player fans) claiming it would wreck their immersion to let raiders and pvp'ers have these options, even in addons, that questers disliking them could simply have not installed an addon for or enabled in the settings . Even ones about your own character that have nothing to do with them! I truly hope they re-examine their stance on the severely lacking API functionality and UI at large in the near future. These sorts of complaints I hear every single day from people who do raids or are heavy pvp'ers, and echo them myself.

*snip*

You are wrong. It was hardcore PvPers that cried about having this options because it would be too mush of an advantage for average skilled players.

We hardcore players know how to read this without the addons so giving this to average players would take away our advantage over skilled players. In other words take away our skills and allow addons to be handicap tools for those that are unskilled.

If you think you need this addons you are not a skilled PvPer or skilled player at all to begin with.

I have been playing allot of different MMORPGs quite hardcore over the last 15 years. And the most challenging Raids and PvP have been in those that does not allow any addons what so ever. Because addons do remove player skills. Addons = handicap tools there is not question about it.

Those Hardcore guilds that QQ over that you can't do X with addons is because they realize they are not as good as they think they are. And I have no understanding or empathy for those posers that want it.

Actually, and I can dig up the posts by Paul Sage if you'd like, the reason was exactly as I stated, that it was too immersion-breaking and allowed players to force you into playing other than "how you wanted". The only API nerf most agreed on was seeing enemy magicka/stamina numbers, generally. Ignoring your post's condescending tone, which holds little weight to me seeing as how I don't even recognize your name, having basics like combat logs and seeing numbers on your health bar has nothing to do with a handicap so much as basic game information .

And I should know who you are? Like it would even matter. But there should not have been any addons in this game to start with. I know how good I am and that is enough for me. If you don't believe me when I tell you It's irrelevant too, but know what I say is true.

First of all combat logs and seeing numbers on your health bar is already allowed in the API. But it is a handicap tool. And I mean handicap in the same way you talking about handicap in golf terms. It is a tool to help you understand what happened during combat something I can see instinctively without the need of reading the combat logs because of my long experience of play games way too mush.

And yes I am condescending to all those wannabe "l33t" players who wants UI and scripts to play the game for them. They are not worthy to be allowed to play any online games. They have ruin the fun for me by QQ'ing about making the games easier in too many games for my liking.

Paul Sage might blamed it on that. But allot of old school veteran MMORPG players did not want it either. Not that there are many of us around anymore.

Lol @ thinking counting pixels is a good way to improve skills and has anything to do with player ability.

@Attorneyatlawl is top notch from the time I have played with him and it's pretty obvious if you read his post history.

Dont presume to speak for everyone, I played mmos since UO and think the UI in this game is ridiculous as is the lack of things like camera options for third person. I'm not sure I quite believe you have played any previous games tho claiming that having healthbar #s is some kind of magical script and new to mmos.

Attorneyatlawl

Thanks for the warm comments @Smiteye and @Wykkyd. I wasn't intending to respond again to the flames, but I will just remark that I prefer in any game to let my actions and knowledge prove themselves rather than how much I make self-proclamations of my skill . I'll my response to the comments from @Sunrock at that for a response.

Wykkyd wrote: »

It's not a matter of hand holding versus not. It's a matter of: This is simple information that SHOULD be available because it actually lets even self-proclaimed skilled players make better and more informed decisions than they could have without the information. Be that information present in the default UI or an addon is irrelevant to the purpose.

And speaking as an addon developer, I'd much rather ALL of the work I do be baked into the default UI, leaving me with 0 addons to develop so that I could focus on playing the game instead of "fixing" the game.

This is definitely the case. More, and industry-standard, info lets good players make better judgements as to how to improve rather than having it unavailable for use.

Additionally, even if you DID want to make addons as a large part of your playing time, think of what you could make instead with the same time invested into fixing the current UI into what many regard as essentials to make ESO a playable and more enjoyable game for them. The numbers don't lie... 1 million+ downloads of your stuff clearly means there's a huge, huge demand for this kind of functionality. I'd much rather see it be available as stock options and updated with the game instead of players and addon devs having to pick up the slack (and not even be allowed to in many cases due to API limits).

Sunrock

Smiteye wrote: »

Sunrock wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sunrock wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@killabunny1234b16_ESO, @nusphere_ESO‌, I think everyone wants to be able to see their own buffs/debuffs, and what hit them in their combat log (not the last 5 when you die only, inside of the recap window, but their actual combat log for review and real-time info) like we used to be able to. You guys are right.

However, the history behind this is that a rather kneejerk decision was made right before launch due to an outcry of people (mostly single-player fans) claiming it would wreck their immersion to let raiders and pvp'ers have these options, even in addons, that questers disliking them could simply have not installed an addon for or enabled in the settings . Even ones about your own character that have nothing to do with them! I truly hope they re-examine their stance on the severely lacking API functionality and UI at large in the near future. These sorts of complaints I hear every single day from people who do raids or are heavy pvp'ers, and echo them myself.

*snip*

You are wrong. It was hardcore PvPers that cried about having this options because it would be too mush of an advantage for average skilled players.

We hardcore players know how to read this without the addons so giving this to average players would take away our advantage over skilled players. In other words take away our skills and allow addons to be handicap tools for those that are unskilled.

If you think you need this addons you are not a skilled PvPer or skilled player at all to begin with.

I have been playing allot of different MMORPGs quite hardcore over the last 15 years. And the most challenging Raids and PvP have been in those that does not allow any addons what so ever. Because addons do remove player skills. Addons = handicap tools there is not question about it.

Those Hardcore guilds that QQ over that you can't do X with addons is because they realize they are not as good as they think they are. And I have no understanding or empathy for those posers that want it.

Actually, and I can dig up the posts by Paul Sage if you'd like, the reason was exactly as I stated, that it was too immersion-breaking and allowed players to force you into playing other than "how you wanted". The only API nerf most agreed on was seeing enemy magicka/stamina numbers, generally. Ignoring your post's condescending tone, which holds little weight to me seeing as how I don't even recognize your name, having basics like combat logs and seeing numbers on your health bar has nothing to do with a handicap so much as basic game information .

And I should know who you are? Like it would even matter. But there should not have been any addons in this game to start with. I know how good I am and that is enough for me. If you don't believe me when I tell you It's irrelevant too, but know what I say is true.

First of all combat logs and seeing numbers on your health bar is already allowed in the API. But it is a handicap tool. And I mean handicap in the same way you talking about handicap in golf terms. It is a tool to help you understand what happened during combat something I can see instinctively without the need of reading the combat logs because of my long experience of play games way too mush.

And yes I am condescending to all those wannabe "l33t" players who wants UI and scripts to play the game for them. They are not worthy to be allowed to play any online games. They have ruin the fun for me by QQ'ing about making the games easier in too many games for my liking.

Paul Sage might blamed it on that. But allot of old school veteran MMORPG players did not want it either. Not that there are many of us around anymore.

Lol @ thinking counting pixels is a good way to improve skills and has anything to do with player ability.

@Attorneyatlawl is top notch from the time I have played with him and it's pretty obvious if you read his post history.

Dont presume to speak for everyone, I played mmos since UO and think the UI in this game is ridiculous as is the lack of things like camera options for third person. I'm not sure I quite believe you have played any previous games tho claiming that having healthbar #s is some kind of magical script and new to mmos.

I think what? Counting what pixels? I have no *** clue what you're talking about. I am talking about playing the UI VS playing the graphic. Is it that you call playing the graphic counting pixles?

@Attorneyatlawl may be a good play. I never teamed with him as far as I know. I don't even know if he play on the same server as me even. And I do not have a habit of reading all posts some one have posted. All I can about is what he sad in in this thread.

But to clarify my point of view. The more information you have in the UI the more theoretical the game play becomes. You can say that you can take out your calculator and see what to do to "win" the fight before you even started it. There is no "skill" in that. Not in the way it takes "skill" to be good in a FPS game where you have to adapt and read the battlefield in similar ways as you would have been forced in reality. We all know that any FPS game provides more challenging PvP then any fantasy based MMORPG have ever have with a few exceptions like Mortals Online for an example. But that is because they had adapt a more FPS style game play with very minimalistic UI.

So way has FPS game better PvP in general then MMORPGs? Because it's faster and you have to read what is going here and now on your screen as it always change from second to second and trust your experience. In contrast to look at your UI to see what happens then take the numbers that that generates make a calculation of what happened then try to theory craft a counter attack to that. If you not use a addon that do all the calculations for you and give you the answers.

Lets take WoW for an example. The PvP in that game was a joke between 2004-2006 (that was the years I played that game) compared to any PvP you can find in any traditional FPS game. And the joke was that the PvP'ers that was good in WoW but only learned how to play the UI sucked horrible when they tried to PvP in any FPS game. But those PvP'ers that had learn to read the actual graphic did ok in FPS games and become really good quickly as soon as they learned how to leading the target

Now when I have established how I think way a minimalistic UI makes for a more skill based game play instead of a lets call it a knowledge based game play. I will move onto way allow addons to too mush is bad again as I feel that no one gets what I try to say so I most have expressed my self poorly.

The more you allow addons to do the more knowledge based the game play will be instead of skill based. This has to be obvious to every one, right? The more data you can get the more number crunching you can do and the more predictable you can be about the outcome of the combat. The less UI you have the more you have to watch the fight itself and read the fight as it happens. This means that you have to trust your experience and your ability to adapt to the situation. This means that you might need to have a larger safety margin. This makes it more challenging.

So all UI is a handicap tool. Now we can of course disagree about how "easy mode" we want the game to be. But the more info you have in the UI the easier it becomes.

Now I do not know way @Attorneyatlaw want stuff to be added to the API that is already in the API. But that is not really of my concerns as I just wanted to debate that changing things in the API also change the difficulty level of the game and how bad it is to make ESO easier then it is today.

TehMagnus

When are we getting some:
GetPlayerBuffsList
GetPLayerDebuffList
GetTargetActiveBuffs
GetTargetActiveDebuffs

TehMagnus

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@killabunny1234b16_ESO, @nusphere_ESO‌, I think everyone wants to be able to see their own buffs/debuffs, and what hit them in their combat log (not the last 5 when you die only, inside of the recap window, but their actual combat log for review and real-time info) like we used to be able to. You guys are right.

However, the history behind this is that a rather kneejerk decision was made right before launch due to an outcry of people (mostly single-player fans) claiming it would wreck their immersion to let raiders and pvp'ers have these options, even in addons, that questers disliking them could simply have not installed an addon for or enabled in the settings . Even ones about your own character that have nothing to do with them! I truly hope they re-examine their stance on the severely lacking API functionality and UI at large in the near future. These sorts of complaints I hear every single day from people who do raids or are heavy pvp'ers, and echo them myself.

Heck, they have even been one major factor in a pvp guild I knew from beta that was regularly running a hardcore 12-man pvp setup zergbusting (BiS) for months during beta and a couple after launch, to quit the game and move onto pastures they feel are friendlier to players wanting to play the game and the mechanics, not the shiny graphics alone. They felt starved for info and found it a constant frustration and battle to play in the dark due to the API changes and lack of information in the stock UI.

Many disagreed at the time, and it's pointless to re-hash the arguments that lead to the decision. Obviously, ZOS made the call they thought would be best for their company's product and sales. No one can fault that, and that was a responsible move that I'm sure was made on what they felt was the best call at that point in time. However, I think time has shown that it was the wrong move, ultimately.

Why I can't see what buffs are on my own character or debuffs on enemies, see what abilities are hitting ME, etc. even using an addon, is beyond me. Why I can't have a simple minimap or multi-quest tracking like used to be present, again... beyond me, as optional items. Same goes for nametags/guild tags optionally for socialization and identifying allies/enemies (obviously they would fade like chevrons as appropriate both distance and in stealth), or a simple combat log tab as used to be present in-game on the chat box, or a castbar option for my own casts (not enemy ones), etc. I could go on for hours with things large and small needing examining and improvement, and really hope ZOS spends the time doing the same.

If I had to name THREE major things that would bring this game to the next level and help its success after 1.4 hits live, they would be:

1) Fix the UI. Improve it to modern game standards, minimalism is not the same thing as lacking core functionality. You can make a minimalist UI that still provides needed gameplay info for everyone, and allow those who want to ignore it to do so by disabling the settings.

2) Fix the camera options, as well as all kinds of quality of life features such as guild store searches, mail system having a huge & random delay a lot of the time, and other general issues. These problems give a very bad first impression to new players, as well as frustrate people on a day-to-day basis.

3) Fix the rewards system for both pve and pvp to be much much more meaningful and not have crafted gear be the vast majority of the best in the game, which takes no progression or skill to obtain but rather simply grinding out a moderate amount of gold to obtain often best-in-slot purple gear that someone can make for you in 10 minutes' time.

Tagging this as there is a lot of good feedback in this thread that impacts both pve and pvp combined...
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ @ZOS_KaiSchober‌ .

THIS

nusphere_ESO

magnusnet wrote: »

When are we getting some:
GetPlayerBuffsList
GetPLayerDebuffList
GetTargetActiveBuffs
GetTargetActiveDebuffs

@ZOS_KaiSchober‌ @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

dont ignore us!!!