Bat Swarm Overpowered in PvP

Gildren

Something has got to be done here with this skill. The ability needs to be re-nerfed back to what it was pre 1.3 update.

jelliedsoup

Bolt escape then bs, is the new talons then standard.

ItsRejectz

Seriously man, look in the PvP section. There are 3 topics on the front page regarding this, no need to make another.

But whilst I'm here, bat swarm has not had a buff. The damage scaling on ults has been buffed.

Ghenra

Yeah man, the *** Bat Swarm is *** all the PvP xperience in Cyrodiil is Uber Over Powered now and Zeni don't nerf it.

Garion

Goodness these posts are getting tiresome. I will repost here what I posted in another 'nerf batswarm' thread:

I played PvP exclusively this weekend for 12 hours at least and you know how many times I died by bats - zero. I was killed from nova and banner several times by contrast. Do you know why I didn't die to bats? Because I roll away or use healing springs through it, and when they pop out of swarm I single target them with a knock down so they can't pop their ultimate again. They die in seconds because they only ever pop this ultimate against large groups when they are alone, or at least on the front lines. It's impossibly simple to deal with bats, I am not going to sit here and provide an in depth explanation because if you have even two brain cells you should be able to figure it out. If you want to see less bats in Cyrodiil, then start countering them with the skills you are provided - moaning about it here won't do you any good.

It's so incredibly annoying listening to people whine about it all the time. Improve your play style rather than crying to ZOS every time you stand around like a fool just waiting to die while bats hit you.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1165263/#Comment_1165263

Vizier

Garion wrote: »

Goodness these posts are getting tiresome. I will repost here what I posted in another 'nerf batswarm' thread:

I played PvP exclusively this weekend for 12 hours at least and you know how many times I died by bats - zero.

Oh well, la de dah, good for you. You've made it. Your living the dream. Your that 1% we all aspire to be like.

BS is BS. It needs a nerf. Reduced damage and a better visual. Complaint I'm hearing is peeps don't even see it...shrug. It's OP. Get out the Nerf bat. Hell make it a stationary AOE like virtually every other ultimate.

Garion

Vizier wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Goodness these posts are getting tiresome. I will repost here what I posted in another 'nerf batswarm' thread:

I played PvP exclusively this weekend for 12 hours at least and you know how many times I died by bats - zero.

Oh well, la de dah, good for you. You've made it. Your living the dream. Your that 1% we all aspire to be like.

BS is BS. It needs a nerf. Reduced damage and a better visual. Complaint I'm hearing is peeps don't even see it...shrug. It's OP. Get out the Nerf bat. Hell make it a stationary AOE like virtually every other ultimate.

Not really living the dream, I've just got wise to how astonishingly simple it is to counter bats. I always see them or hear them and I can stand in the middle of them with healing springs no problem at all. Equally, if the people I am with have an ounce of common sense they will hit AOE skills like impulse etc - virtual insta death for the bat swarmer.

These constant calls to nerf abilities is really, really boring. Abilities should only be nerfed if they cannot be countered and / or cause some kind of imbalance. It is EASY to counter batswarm and it is balanced, because the ability to use the ultimate comes with some heavy costs (as a vampire, my health recovery is awful. If I lose health it doesn't recover unless I heal myself and, as a sorc, I am limited to the resto staff for that. This inhibits my skill selection).

No one needs to aspire to be like me or indeed anyone else in PvP. They do need to stop moaning about something that can easily be dealt with though. The only reason it is so overused is because people don't bother to react to it, they simply run here and cry to ZOS to nerf it (and all the other things people can't get their heads around - "NERF OIL POTS" - erm, purge anyone?)

Come on guys. This game is really fun if you put a little thought into it. When you see bats, or when you see oil, or a standard, or whatever skill it is you all cry about needing a nerf next week, why not take a second to think. You'll have more fun for it.

Devlinne

If we got mad,and cried nerf everytime ONE class could synergize so well with something BETTER than other classes could....then there would be no end to it!.

Dk synergizes so well with dark elf race,the passives + that set that gives u magicka when u reflect a spell+now a set that gives you hp when u block??? Best synergy EVER? Every other class could use this sets and race, but dk makes it OP.

Nightblade FINALLY got a ulti that HURTS. That you would actually be afraid of...and already there are NERF soul thether threads...

Templar from zeroes, finally became heroes with all the buffs and changes to skills.

Now finally sorcs have an ulti that they synergize well with and YOU MAD???
REALLY????

Whats the matter? U not GOD anymore now that the other classes are up to par? Can't take it that FINALLY you are not the only threat?

I love that earlier comment. "please nerf it to pre 1.3"...WHY???? cos it was a POS right? cos u saw the poor guy trying all he could and u just rolled him? Now he ROLL YOU and you cry?

Welcome to BALANCE. Welcome to CHANGE.
The game is the most balanced(pvp wise, i don't give a *** about pve) i have EVER seen it.
Now finally.....
Dk has been and still is dangerous + synergies best with new sets and now OP corrosive armor ulti.

NB now DANGEROUS. Watch out for that soul thether and bow weaving.

Templar. U better have minimum 3 ppl to try to bring one down. Tank healer FTW.

Sorc. best synergy with bats that ACTUALLY hurt and kill now.

The way i see it FOOLS.....every class has something to pump their chest out about now. As opposed to the past when only ONE or TWO of the classes was the shiznit.
Is that not BALANCE?
I hope zos realizes this kneejerk reaction is just previously OP ppl finally brought in line. And crying a river.

CapuchinSeven

Garion wrote: »

Do you know why I didn't die to bats? Because I roll away

Honest question, how do you "roll away" from an invisible enemy dealing 1k+ AOE damage who can sprint, attack and roll with you?

Devlinne

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Do you know why I didn't die to bats? Because I roll away

Honest question, how do you "roll away" from an invisible enemy dealing 1k+ AOE damage who can sprint, attack and roll with you?

Honest question. How do you roll away from a guy holding a shield with corrosive armor(reported above 3k damage) on and able to invasion to you when u try to get away? How do you roll away from a guy who soul thethered(reported 4k+ damage) you and is able to tele strike to you when u try to get away?

Well? Why ONLY batswarm?

CapuchinSeven

Devlinne wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Do you know why I didn't die to bats? Because I roll away

Honest question, how do you "roll away" from an invisible enemy dealing 1k+ AOE damage who can sprint, attack and roll with you?

Honest question. How do you roll away from a guy holding a shield with corrosive armor(reported above 3k damage) on and able to invasion to you when u try to get away? How do you roll away from a guy who soul thethered(reported 4k+ damage) you and is able to tele strike to you when u try to get away?

Well? Why ONLY batswarm?

...er because batswarm makes them invisible?

I'm not coming down on either side of this augment dude, there are many powerful attacks in the game, but sorry I'm not buying "just rollz" as a realistic counter to batswarm.

Sumpfheini

it's indeed a bit over the top considering how easy it is to pull of. Good players combine it anyway with a cc and move with you, so it's hard to counter and in zerg situations it's visuals are too deceptive

Garion

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Do you know why I didn't die to bats? Because I roll away

Honest question, how do you "roll away" from an invisible enemy dealing 1k+ AOE damage who can sprint, attack and roll with you?

It depends on the scenario which is why I said "or use healing springs through it". The majority of the time a swarmer is going into a siege group or a group that are bunched tightly together. They are going for the group - the highest concentration of people in the smallest area so they can utilise AOE spells at the same time as the swarm. If I roll away from the bulk of the group, he or she continues to focus on that group while one or two dodge rolls in the opposite direction get me out of his way. The fact he can sprint and roll means that I can sprint and roll in the opposite direction which in turn makes getting out of the swarm even faster - make sense?

If he decides to focus me, or I am unlucky enough to roll while the entire group rolls and he carries on in my direction, I pop out healing springs and heal > heal > heal through it. The DOT isn't strong enough to take me down with that. If someone else is healing I AOE to try and get his health down before he reappears. More often than not by that point he's out of, or running very low on mana, and the group targets him down (providing of course they haven't all wiped because they didn't react).

Edit: not to mention that CCs work while in clouding swarm. Talons.. NB fear... Shattering prison... volcanic rune etc

Devlinne

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

...er because batswarm makes them invisible?

I'm not coming down on either side of this augment dude, there are many powerful attacks in the game, but sorry I'm not buying "just rollz" as a realistic counter to batswarm.

Ok. fair enough. But let me bring something to your attention about the "invisible" part.

A dk with corrosive armor is very VISIBLE. Yet That doesn't change the fact that you can do anything about it? His shield is still up. You still die when u get near him, and u still can't get away from him.
So whats the issue about being invisible? Does it FEEL better somehow when u can see the guy who killed you?

Devlinne

Garion wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Do you know why I didn't die to bats? Because I roll away

Honest question, how do you "roll away" from an invisible enemy dealing 1k+ AOE damage who can sprint, attack and roll with you?

It depends on the scenario which is why I said "or use healing springs through it". The majority of the time a swarmer is going into a siege group or a group that are bunched tightly together. They are going for the group - the highest concentration of people in the smallest area so they can utilise AOE spells at the same time as the swarm. If I roll away from the bulk of the group, he or she continues to focus on that group while one or two dodge rolls in the opposite direction get me out of his way. The fact he can sprint and roll means that I can sprint and roll in the opposite direction which in turn makes getting out of the swarm even faster - make sense?

If he decides to focus me, or I am unlucky enough to roll while the entire group rolls and he carries on in my direction, I pop out healing springs and heal > heal > heal through it. The DOT isn't strong enough to take me down with that. If someone else is healing I AOE to try and get his health down before he reappears. More often than not by that point he's out of, or running very low on mana, and the group targets him down (providing of course they haven't all wiped because they didn't react).

Edit: not to mention that CCs work while in clouding swarm. Talons.. NB fear... Shattering prison... volcanic rune etc

So true man. I myself and my partners tried a lil solo action. All i can say is. i need to find a better setup for INTELLIGENT ppl. Cos if their not STUPID enough to stay bunch up....bats doesn't help much.
I'd say a NB with bats and that multi drain thingy(can't remember the name) on one bar, and Soulthether on the other bar....THATS someone i'd be afraid of. Eff you up SOLO or in a group!-__-

Thechemicals

Impulse groups with batswarm in them is insane. Only a bat swarmer will go into 3 groups of 60+ players and spam that ultimate. Mages light should be able to detect them during this swarming and they should be targetable.

Garion

Thechemicals wrote: »

Impulse groups with batswarm in them is insane. Only a bat swarmer will go into 3 groups of 60+ players and spam that ultimate. Mages light should be able to detect them during this swarming and they should be targetable.

Impulse groups + any ultimate are insane and will likely steam roll through any group. That, or they will hit another bomb group who spam AOE and there will be a stalemate and / or server crash.

In respect to your point about bat swarmers going into large groups of players, read my other points in this thread. Easy to counter.

OtarTheMad

Garion wrote: »

Goodness these posts are getting tiresome. I will repost here what I posted in another 'nerf batswarm' thread:

I played PvP exclusively this weekend for 12 hours at least and you know how many times I died by bats - zero. I was killed from nova and banner several times by contrast. Do you know why I didn't die to bats? Because I roll away or use healing springs through it, and when they pop out of swarm I single target them with a knock down so they can't pop their ultimate again. They die in seconds because they only ever pop this ultimate against large groups when they are alone, or at least on the front lines. It's impossibly simple to deal with bats, I am not going to sit here and provide an in depth explanation because if you have even two brain cells you should be able to figure it out. If you want to see less bats in Cyrodiil, then start countering them with the skills you are provided - moaning about it here won't do you any good.

It's so incredibly annoying listening to people whine about it all the time. Improve your play style rather than crying to ZOS every time you stand around like a fool just waiting to die while bats hit you.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1165263/#Comment_1165263

The problem is that, for me and some in my group/guild, so many are vamps that we roll away from one bat swarm and another enemy player drops his, roll from that and another player drops his and they are all either impulse spamming or dropping vol. familiar 5-6 times in succession so it explodes or even using an oil pot. The last few days, since patch 1.3, I have died a few times from Bat Swarm, not for a lack of trying to get away with dodge roll and Bolt Escape but still the zerg train will have multiple players using it. I have not died from a DK's Standard or Templar's Nova in quite some time now since I roll away.

I have had a little success with using Daedric Minefield and also Weakening Prison and other spells like those when the vamp pops back out of bat swarm but that is only if the timing is right and we still have enough friendlies around that area to capitalize on it. Bat Swarm should NOT be nerfed (with all that being said) just some ability introduced that can counter it. (like an AOE Fighters Guild ability for example)

I also have to say it's incredibly annoying for people like you to come on the forums and say basically everyone is an idiot besides you. (that sounds harsher than I mean it to be) Bat Swarm kills me because usually the zerg train involved with it has 2 maybe 3 players dropping it and they have DKs using talons and Sorcs using Bolt Escape to keep people stunned and from getting away. (pretty smart I'll say that) Not to mention they also spam impulse... just saying.

Nox_Aeterna

It should be.

Considering that a vampire will have fire weakness and will be hit by Fighters guild stuff , just to have their skills , said skills SHOULD make a lot of difference.

If you dont exploit the problems a vampire have , you will probably die to him/her and you deserve to die to him/her.

Illumous

I got three moves every class can use that counters Clouding Swarm and its invisibility:

Razor Caltrops - Slows them down, large area AoE, almost an ensured escape

Turn Undead (Circle of Protection Morph) - Bonus Armor and an AoE Fear + damage to Vampires

Dawnbreaker - AoE Fighters Guild Ultimate will wreck their health.

Ghenra

Cyrodiil is becoming disappointing and the *** Bat Swarm spam all the time, is the PvP team looking this crap?

CapuchinSeven

Illumous wrote: »

I got three moves every class can use that counters Clouding Swarm and its invisibility:

Razor Caltrops - Slows them down, large area AoE, almost an ensured escape

Turn Undead (Circle of Protection Morph) - Bonus Armor and an AoE Fear + damage to Vampires

Dawnbreaker - AoE Fighters Guild Ultimate will wreck their health.

I find these far more intelligent than "lol rollz".

Skafsgaard

As happy templar who can finally play in the God of War style I made an attempt to make a counter vamp / vamp hunter build. I'm having a lot of fun. Basically you can still do a vampire hunter build, but I think templars now are perfect for it.

Blazing shield will reflect absored damage (as fire) back so basically when some1 pop swarm I put down Elemental Blockade (using frost staff) to slow / little aoe and spam blazing shield following the swarmer as best as I can (with immovable+rapid regen up). So his bats hurt my shield, my shield aoe fire dmg at vamp = im left alive 100% hp and approx 40% mana left, he is dead. I have a few stuns on my bar as well, which helps when he tries to get away after he realizes he wont take me/my grp. A spear stun + ice blockade and he will never get away

Have tried turning into a more dedicated hunter build with more fighter guild abilities, on which I will experiment more on tomorrow.

Lets hunt the foul undeads!

Galrukh

I dont mind the damage but it stacking with itself is just idiotic, 5 players dropping this at once is gets really bad really fast. Just make it so they dont stack and Im fine with it.

Gildren

The combination of Bat Swarm(s) with alliance war assault passive Combat Frenzy is allowing single players recast Bat Swarm almost instantly making them more powerful than an active Emperor. the ability of a single player to wipe out raid groups of 24, repeatedly with little to no delay is over powered. I doubt that was the design intent.

This needs to be addressed.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Vizier wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Goodness these posts are getting tiresome. I will repost here what I posted in another 'nerf batswarm' thread:

I played PvP exclusively this weekend for 12 hours at least and you know how many times I died by bats - zero.

Oh well, la de dah, good for you. You've made it. Your living the dream. Your that 1% we all aspire to be like.

BS is BS. It needs a nerf. Reduced damage and a better visual. Complaint I'm hearing is peeps don't even see it...shrug. It's OP. Get out the Nerf bat. Hell make it a stationary AOE like virtually every other ultimate.

i completely disagree. on a single person swarm is not that great everyone has moves that can hit for as much. we need a decent ammount of available aoe to reduce a big turtle zergfest. you dont want to be hit by bats/ barrier/ pulse/ standard/ nova group, dont stand in the middle of 16 people. you WILL BE SPAMMED by another zerg; you want to stop that group, hopefully your group has all their ults up. everytime I have died to bats so far since update I have been hit by 2-3 people ult-ing it. any other damage ult stacked 3 times would kill me too... NERF EVERYTHING

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Gildren wrote: »

The combination of Bat Swarm(s) with alliance war assault passive Combat Frenzy is allowing single players recast Bat Swarm almost instantly making them more powerful than an active Emperor. the ability of a single player to wipe out raid groups of 24, repeatedly with little to no delay is over powered. I doubt that was the design intent.

This needs to be addressed.

If you were actually a group of 24 wiped by 1 vamp and then a second time he found you and you didnt disperse and just stacked up for another death: you all are terrible players... regardless, I believe this is a hyperbole which is so helpful thank you.
combat frenzy is going to do that will all aoe ults, I hardly think that they added a giant boost to "ult gain on death as a passive" and did not anticipate that people would drop more ults! maybe with these buffed ults that can go off more often people will change their builds/tactics: well the good players will; everyone else will just complain a lot.

ps I cured vamperism and dont plan on taking it back. the drawbacks are quite large. either you get in big trouble with sieges/oil/dk/firestaff or you loose enchant slots, which is huge too.

pps can people asking for nerfs announce if they have experience aside from being killed.

Vizier

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Goodness these posts are getting tiresome. I will repost here what I posted in another 'nerf batswarm' thread:

I played PvP exclusively this weekend for 12 hours at least and you know how many times I died by bats - zero.

Oh well, la de dah, good for you. You've made it. Your living the dream. Your that 1% we all aspire to be like.

BS is BS. It needs a nerf. Reduced damage and a better visual. Complaint I'm hearing is peeps don't even see it...shrug. It's OP. Get out the Nerf bat. Hell make it a stationary AOE like virtually every other ultimate.

i completely disagree. on a single person swarm is not that great everyone has moves that can hit for as much. we need a decent ammount of available aoe to reduce a big turtle zergfest. you dont want to be hit by bats/ barrier/ pulse/ standard/ nova group, dont stand in the middle of 16 people. you WILL BE SPAMMED by another zerg; you want to stop that group, hopefully your group has all their ults up. everytime I have died to bats so far since update I have been hit by 2-3 people ult-ing it. any other damage ult stacked 3 times would kill me too... NERF EVERYTHING

"We Need?" You mean Vampires? It's not a class, it's an extra ultimate that hit's 3 times harder than any aoe ultimate I have. So I need to be a Vampire or Templar or Sorc to have 1500 damage ultimates? I don't "stand" anywhere. I'm always moving and try not to "bunch." Additionally it moves with the vamp who is invisible, and his swarm may as well be invisible too because most people can't see what is hitting them. To say "you will be spammed" if you stand in the middle of a zerg is a BS statement. I'm not talking about Impulse spam (which btw is very visible) I'm talking about an OMG one button win Ultimate that WTF outofnowhere B-slaps most everyone without insane damage mitigation AND, according to some here, is spammable under certain circumstances.

I love how those defending this don't actually defend what is being argued but rather deflect by arguing against something entirely different. Who here is saying "nerf everything?" Or they basically say.. um, ya, it's powerful, just don't get hit by it. LOLs.

ZOS needs to revisit this ultimate OR Make other Ultimates more powerful. I don't care which honestly. You let my class ultimate travel with me, turn me invisible and be virtually undetectable and I'll probably be as happy a camper as you are.

WraithAzraiel

Stop standing in stupid. You hear squeaky bats squeaking run away

chimneyswift_ESO

Gildren wrote: »

Something has got to be done here with this skill. The ability needs to be re-nerfed back to what it was pre 1.3 update.

Sounds like you need to learn how to dodge roll out of AOE spells instead of crying "NERF!" Lulz

Galrukh

Make it non-stackable and give every ultimate a hardcoded cooldown so it doesnt get spammed every 10 sec. It's way too easy to get ultimates up and running, especially because that broken resto staff.