Why light armor casting Nightblades make sense in Elder Scrolls

Xnemesis

(SEMI-LONG READ)
I believe that ESO has nightblades pretty much spot on when it comes to abilities and build types. Nightblades have been nothing less in any previous ES game and they continue with that archetype right into ESO. ESO only missed the mark in two ways, I believe that nightblades shouldn't be using robes or staves. I believe that those unfamiliar with the series believed they were getting a rouge class, which is similar but different in many ways. Below I posted what Nightblades have been described as in previous games.

-Arena Nightblade class info
Nightblades are those mages who have perfected their arts to help in activities involving infiltration, spying, and stealth. They are much like thieves, creatures of the night, able to use their considerable powers to help them in their nocturnal activities. In combat, Nightblades receive a chance per level of scoring a critical hit (3x damage). Nightblades can pick locks about as well as Rogues. They also receive 1.5x their INT in starting spell points.

-Daggerfall Nightblade class info
Possibly the most feared class of all is the nightblade. They possess many of the skills and philosophy of the thiefly classes, combined with the powers of the mage. Their natural agility and stealth, and their mastery of the School of Illusion, means nightblades are seldom seen, though their hand is certainly felt. Effective nightblades have high agility as well as high intelligence and willpower.

-Morrowind Nightblade class info
Nightblades are spellcasters who use their magics to enhance mobility, concealment, and stealthy close combat. They have a sinister reputation, since many nightblades are thieves, enforcers, assassins, or covert agents.

-Oblivion Nightblade class info
Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances. (in-game description)
Nightblades are effective assassins and enforcers. Their speed and skills allow them to easily reach places most others could not. Nightblades dispose of opponents with a quick blade and Destruction magic. They are also skilled in Alteration magic, and are proficient in healing themselves.

-Skyrim did away with classes in favor of skill lines VIA constellations.

Summary of the Nightblade class
Nightblades are a light armor (Not dresses), stealth, Magicka class that will use restoration, illusion, alteration, and destruction magic to destroy their foes. They use short Blades/bows (Not staves) and inflict high critical blows from the shadows. This class is generally a spy, assassin, or thief with sinister reputation.

If ESO makes a light armor variant that differs from robes and adds in some short blades and bows that synergize well with our class abilities nightblades will pretty much hit the mark. Maybe a skill that would let us convert Magicka to stamina as well or convert all weapon attacks into Magicka abilities, we are masters of alteration and illusion right so why not?

TheBull

"They are also skilled in Alteration magic, and are proficient in healing themselves."

Dark Cloak needs to add a heal over time while invis.

Xnemesis

TheBull wrote: »

"They are also skilled in Alteration magic, and are proficient in healing themselves."

Dark Cloak needs to add a heal over time while invis.

That would be a great addition, and I whole heartedly agree. Now that we have cleared the air and defined what a nightblades is, versus just having people think they know what it should be. We can make some valid suggestions and changes.

CapuchinSeven

Fact is, we are still basically all over the place. We have a class attack that is meant to be used from stealth/invisibility to stun and also with the right morphs always critical hit for the duration of the invisibility, yet the invisibility is so broken not only will enemy dots break you right out of it just simply being near another player will break the invisibility before you can attack or even move (as well as our own DOTs breaking it), if it's intended that it should break just by being near an engaged mob or player, then how is that ever meant to work for us?

Dark Cloak and it's variants should be a 2.5 invisibility as it says, DOT or damage shouldn't break it (but you should still take damage from it) and yes I agree our self heals could have been tied to it and it would have felt more like the Nightblades of old.

Before it's even suggested that's too powerful, I don't see DKs low to full heal suddenly stop working because they have a DOT on them, I don't see Sorcs ability to escape or zip backwards and forwards during combat stunning you suddenly stop working because they've been DOT'd.

Also yes, the blade part of Nightblade is totally pointless, I run DW but I know full well I'd be doing far more damage if I was using a Resto staff and running full light rather than a few pieces of medium, and whenever I feel like putting on full medium to get better stealth and critical I instantly see why I was wearing so much light in the first place, even as a melee Nightblade I'm better in full light.

We should be using blades and engaging our enemies with our shadow skills. You're totally correct and there should be reasons for us to use blades and bows, right now (and I run DW and bow with only class attacks) you are just self gimping.

Killing with a Nightblade is perfectly possible, Ambush, Soul Harvest, Impale is just one very workable combo, but the fact remains that a skilled player will simply be better on a DK.

Xnemesis

I also don't know why they only selected two of the original 23 classes and then made up 2 new ones ie dragon night and Templar. Now if you want a rouge or battle Mage you are forced trying to stick square pegs in round holes

audabon2013

First off... its rogue ffs. Misspelling this word repeatedly is unacceptable.

Secondly, your version of what a nightblade could or should be might not always align with other peoples expectations. Luckily you can equip any type of armor and weaponry.

personally I prefer light armor in games and love that I can equip it with good results on all 3 of my vet characters.

Xnemesis

It's not what I think it's what a night blade has been since it's inception in the ES series. I was just pointing out that night blades have always and probably will always be a magicka based class. Most people just see Nightblade and automatically assume stamina and they are wrong. It's just a shame ZoS didn't include Rogue as a class so now we are forced to awkwardly retrofit a Nightblade to fit the role. This is the primary reason we are having the balancing issues we are having. I too personally have played as a NB in past ES games and wore medium armor along with daggers and bow, even though the class suggest light armor as one of their major skills.

audabon2013

So youre problem is with medium armor and stamina skills, not with NB then.

Its not likely they will make some special exemption to allow class skills to use stam based on a player's individual build idea.

CapuchinSeven

audabon2013 wrote: »

So youre problem is with medium armor and stamina skills, not with NB then.

Its not likely they will make some special exemption to allow class skills to use stam based on a player's individual build idea.

If you're going to attack someones spelling, it's very very useful to get your own right as well.

audabon2013

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

audabon2013 wrote: »

So youre problem is with medium armor and stamina skills, not with NB then.

Its not likely they will make some special exemption to allow class skills to use stam based on a player's individual build idea.

If you're going to attack someones spelling, it's very very useful to get your own right as well.

You might also note theres a difference between spelling, typos, and partyfouls when you attempt your own attack.

Repeatedly using rouge is a partyfoul and should get flagged, as it was. See also: duel wield vs dual wield

CapuchinSeven

audabon2013 wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

audabon2013 wrote: »

So youre problem is with medium armor and stamina skills, not with NB then.

Its not likely they will make some special exemption to allow class skills to use stam based on a player's individual build idea.

If you're going to attack someones spelling, it's very very useful to get your own right as well.

You might also note theres a difference between spelling, typos, and partyfouls when you attempt your own attack.

Repeatedly using rouge is a partyfoul and should get flagged, as it was. See also: duel wield vs dual wield

No. There is being and ass and there is not being an ass.

If you're going to state in your very first point "its rogue ffs. Misspelling this word repeatedly is unacceptable" then you might want to make sure you are better than below average. For example, spelling its instead of it's in your very first point where you insult someones spelling.

The OP might be dyslexic, he might not use English as a first language, he might just simply not be a very good typer.

So to be clear, if you're going to insult someones spelling, make sure you get your own in order.

Ninnghizhidda

Surely, Nightblades have always been a magicka based "mage" type class, as you accurately mentioned, since the beginning of the Elder Scrolls series.

One question I have though regarding ESO: which of the four classes available is NOT a mage, magicka based one, by default? The obvious answer: NONE.

Hence, all the biases and the half-arsed attempts to create some "balance" and an illusion that some day, one would be actually able to play a "warrior" and not a "mage" in this game. Hence the "Elder Mages Online" alternative title.

Whatever you do, go and use full Heavy Armour and any weapon you fancy other than a staff, you will still be a "mage". And if you stubbornly refuse to be one, you just self-gimp your character and whole functionality and gaming experience.

Talking about some utterly major game design flaws / fails from day one, for a title proudly advertising and marketing as "Elder Scrolls" and supposedly offering what the true ES titles had, in a MMO environment.

But, as far as NBs are concerned, yes, they would rather be true shadow "mages", even if people affectionately are trying to play them as archetypal "rogues" (probably because no such thing is really possible in ESO, just like with any real "warrior" types).

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

Light armor makes sense. Not being able to play on competitive level without light armor doesn't make sense.
If they allowed to use all gear and weapons with one class/char then this approach should not be selective and should be inclusive from beginning therefore i dont see reason why to explain that using light armor with NB is legit - of course it is. I hope that none is understanding this craving for competitive play in any other armor is going after excluding light armor from options.
Going after archetypes - just explain me what associations u get when u hear word nightblade ? And tell me can u use blades and robes in same time and play on competitive level if u are NB?
I really dont have anything against robes just i am asking that u dont even try to prove your point by saying that imbalance in the game which is present at this day and age something which is final position coz then we lose any ground for discussion.

Xnemesis

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

audabon2013 wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

audabon2013 wrote: »

So youre problem is with medium armor and stamina skills, not with NB then.

Its not likely they will make some special exemption to allow class skills to use stam based on a player's individual build idea.

If you're going to attack someones spelling, it's very very useful to get your own right as well.

You might also note theres a difference between spelling, typos, and partyfouls when you attempt your own attack.

Repeatedly using rouge is a partyfoul and should get flagged, as it was. See also: duel wield vs dual wield

No. There is being and ass and there is not being an ass.

If you're going to state in your very first point "its rogue ffs. Misspelling this word repeatedly is unacceptable" then you might want to make sure you are better than below average. For example, spelling its instead of it's in your very first point where you insult someones spelling.

The OP might be dyslexic, he might not use English as a first language, he might just simply not be a very good typer.

So to be clear, if you're going to insult someones spelling, make sure you get your own in order.

mostly I just don't care. I am writing in a forum not writing a ten page English exam. I personally don't let what people say on the internet get a rise out of me due to spelling. If it makes them feel better to be a grammar *** so be it

Xnemesis

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

Surely, Nightblades have always been a magicka based "mage" type class, as you accurately mentioned, since the beginning of the Elder Scrolls series.

One question I have though regarding ESO: which of the four classes available is NOT a mage, magicka based one, by default? The obvious answer: NONE.

Hence, all the biases and the half-arsed attempts to create some "balance" and an illusion that some day, one would be actually able to play a "warrior" and not a "mage" in this game. Hence the "Elder Mages Online" alternative title.

Whatever you do, go and use full Heavy Armour and any weapon you fancy other than a staff, you will still be a "mage". And if you stubbornly refuse to be one, you just self-gimp your character and whole functionality and gaming experience.

Talking about some utterly major game design flaws / fails from day one, for a title proudly advertising and marketing as "Elder Scrolls" and supposedly offering what the true ES titles had, in a MMO environment.

But, as far as NBs are concerned, yes, they would rather be true shadow "mages", even if people affectionately are trying to play them as archetypal "rogues" (probably because no such thing is really possible in ESO, just like with any real "warrior" types).

I completely agree ZoS had 23 original classes to choose from the original series, and chose to only include two of the original classes (NB & Sorc. Then they decided to make two entirely new ones by introducing the dragon knight and Templar. They had so many choices to choose from and decided they had to make two new classes SMH and more magic based classes at that.

Kego

Dragon Knight is from Skyrim. Leaves Templar out alone as never before seen Class.

Xnemesis

Kego wrote: »

Dragon Knight is from Skyrim. Leaves Templar out alone as never before seen Class.

errr skyrim didn't have classes.... they opted out for skill trees/constellation system. Unless you are speaking of NPC's though, and in that case I believe that the Knights of the Nine xpac (Oblivion) had Templar NPCs, but I don't remember any dragon knights in any ES game.

Armann

Kego wrote: »

Dragon Knight is from Skyrim. Leaves Templar out alone as never before seen Class.

Not really, Dragonknights are practitioners of Akaviri martial arts, Dragonborn are people with the soul of a dragon and extremly rare. Come on, did you not pay attention when playing Skyrim? Templars could be likened to the Crusader class.

Xnemesis

Armann wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

Dragon Knight is from Skyrim. Leaves Templar out alone as never before seen Class.

Not really, Dragonknights are practitioners of Akaviri martial arts, Dragonborn are people with the soul of a dragon and extremly rare. Come on, did you not pay attention when playing Skyrim? Templars could be likened to the Crusader class.

Which kinda makes me curious as to why ZoS decided to even make a Templar class versus bringing in the Crusader class.

audabon2013

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

audabon2013 wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

audabon2013 wrote: »

So youre problem is with medium armor and stamina skills, not with NB then.

Its not likely they will make some special exemption to allow class skills to use stam based on a player's individual build idea.

If you're going to attack someones spelling, it's very very useful to get your own right as well.

You might also note theres a difference between spelling, typos, and partyfouls when you attempt your own attack.

Repeatedly using rouge is a partyfoul and should get flagged, as it was. See also: duel wield vs dual wield

No. There is being and ass and there is not being an ass.

If you're going to state in your very first point "its rogue ffs. Misspelling this word repeatedly is unacceptable" then you might want to make sure you are better than below average. For example, spelling its instead of it's in your very first point where you insult someones spelling.

The OP might be dyslexic, he might not use English as a first language, he might just simply not be a very good typer.

So to be clear, if you're going to insult someones spelling, make sure you get your own in order.

Youre delusional. Lack of punctuation is not mispelling. Nor is it the same as rouge. I love your nerdrage over this topic though. If punctuation and grammar are really your bag tho, you might want to use periods instead of comma spam.

Ty for the lols.

Pmarsico9

Reading this makes me wish that they hadn't done classes at all and just given us all access to a slightly modified talent system like that which existed in Skyrim.

CapuchinSeven

audabon2013 wrote: »

Youre delusional. Lack of punctuation is not mispelling.

It's spelt misspelling.

audabon2013

Lol youre hilarious. Gratz on being the spelling police. You got trolled by Android auto-complete. Ahh man. Been fun. Thanks for making this thread awesome. Youve really brightened my workdays this week.

Xnemesis

audabon2013 wrote: »

Lol youre hilarious. Gratz on being the spelling police. You got trolled by Android auto-complete. Ahh man. Been fun. Thanks for making this thread awesome. Youve really brightened my workdays this week.

Lol I wasn't even upset that you corrected me TBH, but it's whatever you guys seemed to be on a roll going back and forth so I just let it be. Glad you enjoyed the post.

Laura

stop making sense. it isn't allowed on the ESO forums.

BrassRazoo

The title doesn't make sense.

Xnemesis

BrassRazoo wrote: »

The title doesn't make sense.

How so? People complain about NBs being at their best in light armor and using magic. So I figured I would share that in all ES games a NB has been a light armor casting class.

audabon2013

Xnemesis wrote: »

audabon2013 wrote: »

Lol youre hilarious. Gratz on being the spelling police. You got trolled by Android auto-complete. Ahh man. Been fun. Thanks for making this thread awesome. Youve really brightened my workdays this week.

Lol I wasn't even upset that you corrected me TBH, but it's whatever you guys seemed to be on a roll going back and forth so I just let it be. Glad you enjoyed the post.

Yah this fella is goin all white-knight for you tho. Its very entertaining.

I guess hes not familiar with ppl jokingly calling out things like "rouge" and duel wield. Good times.

as ppl have noticed tho, your OP echoes the discrepancy between class/mag and stam usage.

Kafolarbear

Pretty much, what I have done with my Vet 2 Nightblade is Full stealth 7 pieces of medium armor and both slots with bows for Solo content and PvP. For group content I go full light armor with both slots restoration staffs to heal. When I am PvP'ing, I try to use dark cloak to get a critical hit in or escape from a losing battle, but it usually ends up consuming magicka without even working. This is a real problem, as I was counting on shadow cloak to aid me most of my battles, but nope it breaks if I am in the vicinity of an enemy PC.

CapuchinSeven

audabon2013 wrote: »

Gratz on being the spelling police.

...man who corrects forum spellings gets snooty about being corrected for forum punctuation and spelling. News at 11.

CapuchinSeven

Kafolarbear wrote: »

Pretty much, what I have done with my Vet 2 Nightblade is Full stealth 7 pieces of medium armor and both slots with bows for Solo content and PvP. For group content I go full light armor with both slots restoration staffs to heal. When I am PvP'ing, I try to use dark cloak to get a critical hit in or escape from a losing battle, but it usually ends up consuming magicka without even working. This is a real problem, as I was counting on shadow cloak to aid me most of my battles, but nope it breaks if I am in the vicinity of an enemy PC.

The right stamina build with the right weapons with magic used for support do just fine in PvP. The problem is when people want to use no magic class abilities at all, and it just doesn't work.

For example my full medium, bow stamina build actually has more magicka for escaping than my magicka damage build even without the light armour bonuses because that's all I need the magic for. It also destroys casters with venom arrow.

With all stamina glyphs and only magic regen on jewels, ambush/soul harvest STILL hits like a 10 ton truck when I swap from bow mid combat for burst damage.

EDIT - This is of course, a hybrid build but it's a heavy stamina build and my bow hits like a train because of it. Even my magic build uses some stamina abilities so I just see it as the reverse of that.