Why are campaign changes nowhere to be mentioned in Update 3?

Imperator_Clydus

Greetings and salutations members of the Elder Scrolls Online community,

I'm sure everybody has read the recent "The Road Ahead" written by ESO Game Director Matt Firor. @ZOS_GinaBruno posted Mr. Firor's thoughts in the forums, and what is rather perplexing is a lack of mention of any campaign changes. Now, Ms. Bruno later commented further down that changes are in fact coming. However, wouldn't this be a major update worth mentioning to start? Considering the issues that have long plagued Cyrodiil, you would think ZOS would place one of the major features and incentives of update 3 as resolving the many issues in AvA.

ESO PvP Lead @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ has been kind enough to keep us relatively in the loop of what is happening, but anyone who doesn't actively watch the forums wouldn't know any changes are coming to Cyrodiil at all. We continue to have this emphasis on guild tabards, dyes for armor, new armor for trials, fixes to PvE zones and veteran rank progression, even kiosks players can bid on to open their guild stores, but no mention of PvP. Why is that? Why is one of the main features of ESO seemingly underplayed? Ignored? Intentionally or not?

I understand ZOS has a variety of different markets to appeal to, but PvP has been absolutely suffering since early access. We have received little attention, had minute fixes every now and then, and never received a major update. Now the major update where sweeping changes to campaigns is around the corner, and not even the ESO Game Director is taking the time to mention them in his written report about Update 3. I just do not understand if this is a failure to properly advertise the game or if ZOS isn't very concerned or interested in PvP.

Anybody else find this to be peculiar and rather odd? Campaigns aren't getting any better, and I know many who purchased a 3-month sub are about to run out and are determining whether they are staying or leaving. ZOS has already lost a large chunk of the PvP community due to inaction and slow response. I would hate for more of the community to leave because PvP is legitimately just not a priority for ZOS. Feel free to post your thoughts, concerns, and opinions below.

Regards,

Imperator Clydus

kijima

Not sure how my model of play fits in as the norm or majority, but here goes.

This is my first MMO I've ever played, but as for as TES games, I've played the lot. Morrowind is still my favorite, followed by Skyrim. So, I'm a PvE'er by definition or by experience. Yet, I've grown to love playing PvP and now it's probably my first choice of destination when I log in. My guild mates are great and enjoy their company and I've learned a LOT from them. They have made me a better overall player, and for the I'm truly grateful. Good bunch of guys and gals.

Now, I must just be lucky as I've not had one single drama in PvE. I had a GM help me through a dodgy part of a quest once, but nothing else has hindered me all the way through, I play AD and did play all of the Beta's so I have something of an idea of broken quests. Remember the frog race in beta that was broken?

Thing is, PvP is where my hat lays now and if it's broken due to FPS or has low numbers as I live in Australia and when America sleeps, PvP sleeps. I still haven't found any aussies to play with (just on that, I'm looking for an Australian PvP guild to play with, PM me if you have one ) so I just move across to PvE and continue questing.

So whatever they do with PvP and how it's handled doesn't really bother me. How many people would fit into that category?

lockleedub17_ESO

I'm in this boat. My subscription runs out at the end of the month, and I'm trying to decide whether or not its really worthwhile to renew. As matters stand of late, I'm inclined not too. PvE is alright, the lore is fun as I'm a fan of the franchise; but its a bit repetitive and the lack of good grouping mechanics has turned me off from it. AvA has proven to be the experience that was really providing me the most entertainment out of ESO, mostly because I enjoyed the team oriented objectives.

However, its turned into an increasingly downward slide, the longer I've played in AvA. There is a laundry list of issues I've seen that need fixed, and I've seen little really vocal response coming from Zenimax regarding repairing it. At the least, I'd like to see the campaigns cut in number. I don't see why that has proven so problematic it has to be pushed back to update 3.

Regardless, I'm waiting to see something come out of them that will justify waiting out a few more months of subscription time or not. Given the lack of public response on AvA that I've seen so far, I'll most likely drop out.

Imperator_Clydus

kijima wrote: »

Not sure how my model of play fits in as the norm or majority, but here goes.

This is my first MMO I've ever played, but as for as TES games, I've played the lot. Morrowind is still my favorite, followed by Skyrim. So, I'm a PvE'er by definition or by experience. Yet, I've grown to love playing PvP and now it's probably my first choice of destination when I log in. My guild mates are great and enjoy their company and I've learned a LOT from them. They have made me a better overall player, and for the I'm truly grateful. Good bunch of guys and gals.

Now, I must just be lucky as I've not had one single drama in PvE. I had a GM help me through a dodgy part of a quest once, but nothing else has hindered me all the way through, I play AD and did play all of the Beta's so I have something of an idea of broken quests. Remember the frog race in beta that was broken?

Thing is, PvP is where my hat lays now and if it's broken due to FPS or has low numbers as I live in Australia and when America sleeps, PvP sleeps. I still haven't found any aussies to play with (just on that, I'm looking for an Australian PvP guild to play with, PM me if you have one ) so I just move across to PvE and continue questing.

So whatever they do with PvP and how it's handled doesn't really bother me. How many people would fit into that category?

My concern is the seemingly apathy on ZOS' part will affect the PvP experience going forward. You, yourself, claim to actually enjoy AvA, even if there isn't a lot happening due to the time zone differences. Well, consider a scenario where that becomes worse because more and more leave due to a lack of attention to PvP?

I'm not asking ZOS to disregard PvE, raiding, RP, and other facets that make up an MMORPG. I'm just asking ZOS to not forget the main feature that separates this game apart from most on the market, and what is desperately struggling to succeed.

I am a long-time TES fan myself with Morrowind being my first and favorite and Skyrim also being my second favorite. I, however, see more similarities with Cyrodiil in ESO compared to TES games than the PvE experience as Cyrodiil is one, large, persistent world where anything can happen, whether it's questing, the civil war, dark anchors, etc., and you can go anywhere and do anything.

So, for me, Cyrodiil is incredibly important because it feels like TES to me, and it is the main driving force for why I play ESO. I'm just perplexed why there seems to be a lack of interest on the part of ZOS to address PvP and even acknowledge it. Sometimes it seems as if they are almost scared to even broach the subject.

Laura

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118546/pts-patch-notes-v1-3-0/p1


Alliance War Campaign Updates
All Campaigns that were running up until this patch have been closed, and 5 new Campaigns are opening up:
Bow of Shadows: 5 day Veteran Rank only Campaign
Blackwater Blade: 5 day Non-Veteran only Campaign
Haderus: 7 day standard Campaign that anyone can join
Chillrend: 7 day standard Campaign that anyone can join
Thornblade: 30 day standard Campaign that anyone can join
If you were assigned to any Campaign prior to Patch 1.3.0, you will be given a free Home Campaign assignment on each character previously assigned to a Campaign.
Once Patch 1.3.0 is deployed, you will be rewarded according to the placement of your Alliance within your Home Campaign.
Switching Campaigns (Home or Guest) will now have a 3 day lockout timer associated with it.


there is more there too

Imperator_Clydus

lockleedub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm in this boat. My subscription runs out at the end of the month, and I'm trying to decide whether or not its really worthwhile to renew. As matters stand of late, I'm inclined not too. PvE is alright, the lore is fun as I'm a fan of the franchise; but its a bit repetitive and the lack of good grouping mechanics has turned me off from it. AvA has proven to be the experience that was really providing me the most entertainment out of ESO, mostly because I enjoyed the team oriented objectives.

However, its turned into an increasingly downward slide, the longer I've played in AvA. There is a laundry list of issues I've seen that need fixed, and I've seen little really vocal response coming from Zenimax regarding repairing it. At the least, I'd like to see the campaigns cut in number. I don't see why that has proven so problematic it has to be pushed back to update 3.

Regardless, I'm waiting to see something come out of them that will justify waiting out a few more months of subscription time or not. Given the lack of public response on AvA that I've seen so far, I'll most likely drop out.

I'm right there with you. I'm a long-time MMO vet as well as a long-time TES fan and so I have a large stake in this game succeeding. At the same time, the PvE experience isn't anything groundbreaking and it doesn't remotely resemble the actual TES games in my opinion.

AvA was my major interest in the game, and Cyrodiil has the most commonalities with a TES game to me, but it just suffers from a laundry list of varying issues. I was not expecting AvA to be perfect out of the door and certainly every game has its problems. However, ZOS has just shown little ability to prove they care and that they are trying to make fixes to the system.

ZOS is on a time limit. They need to make the commitment to say they are either fully invested in improving AvA or not. Depending on their decision will likely impact the subscription of many players currently playing ESO.

Imperator_Clydus

Laura wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118546/pts-patch-notes-v1-3-0/p1


Alliance War Campaign Updates
All Campaigns that were running up until this patch have been closed, and 5 new Campaigns are opening up:
Bow of Shadows: 5 day Veteran Rank only Campaign
Blackwater Blade: 5 day Non-Veteran only Campaign
Haderus: 7 day standard Campaign that anyone can join
Chillrend: 7 day standard Campaign that anyone can join
Thornblade: 30 day standard Campaign that anyone can join
If you were assigned to any Campaign prior to Patch 1.3.0, you will be given a free Home Campaign assignment on each character previously assigned to a Campaign.
Once Patch 1.3.0 is deployed, you will be rewarded according to the placement of your Alliance within your Home Campaign.
Switching Campaigns (Home or Guest) will now have a 3 day lockout timer associated with it.


there is more there too

Do you not see the issue with this? In the official "The Road Ahead" address, there is no mention of AvA. You have to go to the patch notes for PTS to find any mention, and it is still a relatively small footnote compared to many of the other changes. It's obviously coming, but again, the issue here is ZOS seems to have an inability to show their commitment to PvP or they just don't care. That can speak volumes for the future of the PvP experience, as currently we really haven't seen many improvements in the system.

kijima

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

So, for me, Cyrodiil is incredibly important because it feels like TES to me, and it is the main driving force for why I play ESO. I'm just perplexed why there seems to be a lack of interest on the part of ZOS to address PvP and even acknowledge it. Sometimes it seems as if they are almost scared to even broach the subject.

I guess I do suffer from apathy because my experience hasn't be horrible Clydus, that's the only answer I have for you.

As for the time zone thing, yes it does effect me so on that basis it makes sense that something has to be done, as to what though I don't know. Cull the amount of campaigns maybe?

Perhaps the small timed campaigns (3/5/7 day) will help? Not sure. I happen to like them being long myself even if the reward is small, but then I would like the ability to play both and if I read things they way they are written it looks like I will be able too.

I'm a patient man Clydus, perhaps overly so. It might be apathy to, but then I've not had a reason to think otherwise.

Laura

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118546/pts-patch-notes-v1-3-0/p1


Alliance War Campaign Updates
All Campaigns that were running up until this patch have been closed, and 5 new Campaigns are opening up:
Bow of Shadows: 5 day Veteran Rank only Campaign
Blackwater Blade: 5 day Non-Veteran only Campaign
Haderus: 7 day standard Campaign that anyone can join
Chillrend: 7 day standard Campaign that anyone can join
Thornblade: 30 day standard Campaign that anyone can join
If you were assigned to any Campaign prior to Patch 1.3.0, you will be given a free Home Campaign assignment on each character previously assigned to a Campaign.
Once Patch 1.3.0 is deployed, you will be rewarded according to the placement of your Alliance within your Home Campaign.
Switching Campaigns (Home or Guest) will now have a 3 day lockout timer associated with it.


there is more there too

Do you not see the issue with this? In the official "The Road Ahead" address, there is no mention of AvA. You have to go to the patch notes for PTS to find any mention, and it is still a relatively small footnote compared to many of the other changes. It's obviously coming, but again, the issue here is ZOS seems to have an inability to show their commitment to PvP or they just don't care. That can speak volumes for the future of the PvP experience, as currently we really haven't seen many improvements in the system.

didn't say I didn't, just putting it there in case you missed it.

I agree the pvp needs serious life support especially in a game where it was tooted as being its main saving grace

Imperator_Clydus

Laura wrote: »

didn't say I didn't, just putting it there in case you missed it.

I agree the pvp needs serious life support especially in a game where it was tooted as being its main saving grace

It's slightly reassuring that campaigns are at least being acknowledged in the patch notes, but it's a far cry from ZOS stating to the community that Cyrodiil has problems and they are committed to fixing it.

At the very least, ZOS should be giving equal treatment and care to all facets of the game. At the very best, ZOS should make a better effort to address AvA and talk about it in their big updates rather than disregarding it as nothing major.

Jarnhand

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

ZOS is on a time limit. They need to make the commitment to say they are either fully invested in improving AvA or not. Depending on their decision will likely impact the subscription of many players currently playing ESO.

Sadly just look at the road ahead letter a few days back; nothing about focus on fixing class/skill bugs or Cyrodiil. They are more or less saying directly they are done fixing NBs, when hardly anything major has been done, and the class got around 6-8 buged skills!!

They got focus on FLUFF that should come FAR FAR FAR behind fixing the game-breaking exploits/skill bugs/class imbalances/game-engine-problems the game has.

They are completely and utterly missing the target, and people are leaving in big numbers.

AkelDamascus

Campaign changes are mentioned among other things in this Update 3 video.
http://youtu.be/n-H6ljISiIw

Lord_Draevan

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Do you not see the issue with this? In the official "The Road Ahead" address, there is no mention of AvA. You have to go to the patch notes for PTS to find any mention, and it is still a relatively small footnote compared to many of the other changes. It's obviously coming, but again, the issue here is ZOS seems to have an inability to show their commitment to PvP or they just don't care. That can speak volumes for the future of the PvP experience, as currently we really haven't seen many improvements in the system.

I actually asked on the "Road Ahead" thread and got a response from ZOS:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
Are the campaign changes (i.e 5 campaings only, 30 day/7 day/5day and Vet/non-Vet only) also coming in update 3?

Yes, they will be.

It is odd they didn't mention it on their own, but it's good to know they are coming in early August, according to the new trailer.

Talcyndl

Perhaps because they talked about it in the June "Road Ahead" and then made a detailed announcement regarding it in a Sticky Thread?

Not sure why they would then repeat the information in a new Road Ahead? Would be kinda more of a "Road we've already announced and detailed" at that point.

Imperator_Clydus

AkelDamascus wrote: »

Campaign changes are mentioned among other things in this Update 3 video.
http://youtu.be/n-H6ljISiIw

Oh you mean "New campaign types" at the very last few seconds of the video? Nice catch. I didn't actually notice that before, but again, reasserts this seemingly downplay of the AvA experience.

Tabards, dyes, trials, heck even guild stores had video footage to compliment their significance. PvP is mentioned as a side note for a few seconds at the very end. This is my concern. Especially, when these actual changes to campaigns will be significant and will affect everyone who is in Cyrodiil, why is this not being covered as a higher priority?

Do you really not see what I, as well as many others, see with ZOS' marketing strategy? Pre-launch all ZOS wanted to talk about was AvA. Post-launch, AvA is rarely mentioned and generally is taking a back seat to virtually everything else, even if it's worthless fluff.

It would be one thing if AvA was perfect and needed little attention. It's an entirely different issue when AvA is falling apart at the seams to the emperor farming/trading, dead/lopsided campaigns with population balancing problems, terrible performance in Cyrodiil, class balancing issues, AOE dominance in AvA, etc. The list goes on and on and the reassurance from ZOS that these issues are being addressed just isn't there.

Imperator_Clydus

Jarnhand wrote: »

Sadly just look at the road ahead letter a few days back; nothing about focus on fixing class/skill bugs or Cyrodiil. They are more or less saying directly they are done fixing NBs, when hardly anything major has been done, and the class got around 6-8 buged skills!!

They got focus on FLUFF that should come FAR FAR FAR behind fixing the game-breaking exploits/skill bugs/class imbalances/game-engine-problems the game has.

They are completely and utterly missing the target, and people are leaving in big numbers.

I agree. While fluff is nice and people will inevitably want it, I'd rather have a game that actually works and delivers on the promise of up to 200 players on screen with zero performance loss. There are so many issues with Cyrodiil that are taking forever to be addressed or are completely ignored, what exactly is the reason for this?

Forward camps have been broken since beta and it took ZOS three months after launch to finally address them? Considering how crucial they are to AvA, that is downright baffling to me. I just see a failure to prioritize properly honestly, gauge what actually matters, and PvP just doesn't seem to get the attention or time it deserves.

Imperator_Clydus

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

I actually asked on the "Road Ahead" thread and got a response from ZOS:

It is odd they didn't mention it on their own, but it's good to know they are coming in early August, according to the new trailer.

Indeed. I actually reference that in the OP, as I read through her thread and she responded to your question about the campaign changes. It's just strange to me how it wasn't addressed in the Update 3 post to begin with, and how it's merely a one second footnote in the video. Is that how ZOS really perceives their AvA system, which is in dire straits currently?

Imperator_Clydus

dbetterton_ESO wrote: »

Perhaps because they talked about it in the June "Road Ahead" and then made a detailed announcement regarding it in a Sticky Thread?

Not sure why they would then repeat the information in a new Road Ahead? Would be kinda more of a "Road we've already announced and detailed" at that point.

That's actually not entirely accurate. What they talked about in the previous "The Road Ahead" was about the idea of changing campaigns and going to make a thread about it on the forums at a later date. This was never set in stone and certainly it actually had nothing to do with Update 2.

The Upcoming Campaign Changes was that said thread where ZOS gave us their idea and asked for feedback. The glaring issue with this approach is that the majority of the player base does not look at the forums. Why couldn't this have been posted on the main page of the website? Why not in that actual "The Road Ahead"?

My point still stands that each decision ZOS makes suggests that AvA isn't a priority and certainly isn't a major feature of the game. They briefly mention it and reference it occasionally, even when such a major change is coming in Update 3. It should be referenced in the Update 3 post, of which it isn't at all. Unless you actually pay attention to the very end of the video for the few seconds it pops up, or look at the PvP forums or PTS patch notes, you wouldn't know ZOS is doing anything for PvP.

This is my problem and the point of this thread. PvP is being underrepresented. I just want to know if others agree and why ZOS seems to have this policy, of which was the polar opposite of their pre-launch marketing strategy.