New FPS issue response from Community Manager

SwampRaider

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We understand and respect the frustration in regards to the performance issues. We have our Engineering and QA teams currently working on tracking down and testing several things that we believe are contributing to the problem. This is a bit of a nebulous issue, as it has several contributing factors. Each time we nail down a contributing factor and fix it, we push that fix live. We promise to continue to keep you updated, and we do apologize that the issue is still persisting.

Jaxom

Sigh......

johnyeh87

They need to get a new engine for this game. Creating a game with Microsoft PowerPoint does not work well :P

Rylana

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
There is nothing nebulous (or vague) about it, the problem is the change in how shadows on objects are rendered after the graphics update in 1.2.3.

For whatever reason, the engine is telling the GPU to enter a perpetual idle state while the CPU processes object and shadow rendering. This takes a lot of time internally, and after the process begins the GPU is never ordered to come out of idle mode (until such time as one changes map states, such as traveling to a totally different zone or restarting the client)

Your engineering team needs to look into those idle states. Then you will resolve the issue within hours instead of days/weeks.

Fuzzylumpkins

Rylana wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
There is nothing nebulous (or vague) about it, the problem is the change in how shadows on objects are rendered after the graphics update in 1.2.3.

For whatever reason, the engine is telling the GPU to enter a perpetual idle state while the CPU processes object and shadow rendering. This takes a lot of time internally, and after the process begins the GPU is never ordered to come out of idle mode (until such time as one changes map states, such as traveling to a totally different zone or restarting the client)

Your engineering team needs to look into those idle states. Then you will resolve the issue within hours instead of days/weeks.

Month now.

Rylana

To put this into perspective.

A typical mid range GPU will have anywhere from 96 - 1500 processing "cores" dedicated purely to graphics rendering. They are all much weaker individually than a CPU core, but they are much more numerous. Parallel multiple effects processing is by this virtue much more efficient on a GPU.

When you order them into the idle state, the 2-6 (sometimes 8 ) cores a high end machine has, is tasked with doing the work thousands of smaller graphics cores normally do. This is highly inefficient, and even on extreme systems will cause a marked drop in performance. The better the processor the less you see, but eventually you can and will be bogged down.

This is your bottleneck. Release rendering of shadows back to the GPU processing cores and you will solve your lockup problem.

This is made plain by the fact that leaving the map/transitioning to another location/restarting the game, removed the idle flag. The cores process normally until such time as you enter a scenario where the client orders the GPU back into the idle state and the CPU takes over (once again crashing down to under 5 FPS and locking it there, never to recover because the flag is never removed)

Grim13

Rylana wrote: »

To put this into perspective.

A typical mid range GPU will have anywhere from 96 - 1500 processing "cores" dedicated purely to graphics rendering. They are all much weaker individually than a CPU core, but they are much more numerous. Parallel multiple effects processing is by this virtue much more efficient on a GPU.

When you order them into the idle state, the 2-6 (sometimes 8 ) cores a high end machine has, is tasked with doing the work thousands of smaller graphics cores normally do. This is highly inefficient, and even on extreme systems will cause a marked drop in performance. The better the processor the less you see, but eventually you can and will be bogged down.

This is your bottleneck. Release rendering of shadows back to the GPU processing cores and you will solve your lockup problem.

This is made plain by the fact that leaving the map/transitioning to another location/restarting the game, removed the idle flag. The cores process normally until such time as you enter a scenario where the client orders the GPU back into the idle state and the CPU takes over (once again crashing down to under 5 FPS and locking it there, never to recover because the flag is never removed)

If you ever make a game... I'm buying it!

LrdRahvin

Posted this in another thread...just going to leave it here...


Can't breathe...must...help...laughing....too...hard...

TL;DR: ROFLMAO aspyhxia

bitaken

Rylana wrote: »

To put this into perspective.

A typical mid range GPU will have anywhere from 96 - 1500 processing "cores" dedicated purely to graphics rendering. They are all much weaker individually than a CPU core, but they are much more numerous. Parallel multiple effects processing is by this virtue much more efficient on a GPU.

When you order them into the idle state, the 2-6 (sometimes 8 ) cores a high end machine has, is tasked with doing the work thousands of smaller graphics cores normally do. This is highly inefficient, and even on extreme systems will cause a marked drop in performance. The better the processor the less you see, but eventually you can and will be bogged down.

This is your bottleneck. Release rendering of shadows back to the GPU processing cores and you will solve your lockup problem.

This is made plain by the fact that leaving the map/transitioning to another location/restarting the game, removed the idle flag. The cores process normally until such time as you enter a scenario where the client orders the GPU back into the idle state and the CPU takes over (once again crashing down to under 5 FPS and locking it there, never to recover because the flag is never removed)

All well and good - but the guys making thousands of dollars per week can't seem to find the code that does what you're talking about.

So...here we are. And...there I go..

dcincali

bitaken wrote: »

So...here we are. And...there I go..

Can we have our scrolls back atleast.. Thanks

ferzalrwb17_ESO

Grim13 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

To put this into perspective.

A typical mid range GPU will have anywhere from 96 - 1500 processing "cores" dedicated purely to graphics rendering. They are all much weaker individually than a CPU core, but they are much more numerous. Parallel multiple effects processing is by this virtue much more efficient on a GPU.

When you order them into the idle state, the 2-6 (sometimes 8 ) cores a high end machine has, is tasked with doing the work thousands of smaller graphics cores normally do. This is highly inefficient, and even on extreme systems will cause a marked drop in performance. The better the processor the less you see, but eventually you can and will be bogged down.

This is your bottleneck. Release rendering of shadows back to the GPU processing cores and you will solve your lockup problem.

This is made plain by the fact that leaving the map/transitioning to another location/restarting the game, removed the idle flag. The cores process normally until such time as you enter a scenario where the client orders the GPU back into the idle state and the CPU takes over (once again crashing down to under 5 FPS and locking it there, never to recover because the flag is never removed)

If you ever make a game... I'm buying it!

If you buy that guesswork then good luck. It doesn't explain the scaling FPS reduction I see. Occasionally, randomly, mine gets locked to 30FPS (after going down as low as 14) and needs a relog.

What I see in Cyrodiil is an FPS reduction that scales the closer I get to a large number of players. I don't even have to see the zerg so there's nothing to render as yet. If it was a simple case of a problem with shadow rendering then disabling shadow rendering would be a fix. It's not.

If I was to make a wild guess I'd be looking further back than the rendering point because it's well before (and after) then that the issues start. I have also noted that when I'm standing outside a zerg with FPS of 40 and look at the zerg it can seem as if many of them are moving at 10FPS yet the scenery scrolls more smoothly than that and the people behind me animate smoothly.

There are many times where the game looks like it's rendering a 10FPS scene at a much, much higher FPS. (A bit like convering a standard movie to 60FPS without any frame blending).

But my guess is as good as anyone else's. All we see are the symptoms with zero access to code. ZOS are entirely to blame and the only ones who can fix it.

Agrippa_Invisus

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

To put this into perspective.

A typical mid range GPU will have anywhere from 96 - 1500 processing "cores" dedicated purely to graphics rendering. They are all much weaker individually than a CPU core, but they are much more numerous. Parallel multiple effects processing is by this virtue much more efficient on a GPU.

When you order them into the idle state, the 2-6 (sometimes 8 ) cores a high end machine has, is tasked with doing the work thousands of smaller graphics cores normally do. This is highly inefficient, and even on extreme systems will cause a marked drop in performance. The better the processor the less you see, but eventually you can and will be bogged down.

This is your bottleneck. Release rendering of shadows back to the GPU processing cores and you will solve your lockup problem.

This is made plain by the fact that leaving the map/transitioning to another location/restarting the game, removed the idle flag. The cores process normally until such time as you enter a scenario where the client orders the GPU back into the idle state and the CPU takes over (once again crashing down to under 5 FPS and locking it there, never to recover because the flag is never removed)

If you ever make a game... I'm buying it!

If you buy that guesswork then good luck. It doesn't explain the scaling FPS reduction I see. Occasionally, randomly, mine gets locked to 30FPS (after going down as low as 14) and needs a relog.

What I see in Cyrodiil is an FPS reduction that scales the closer I get to a large number of players. I don't even have to see the zerg so there's nothing to render as yet. If it was a simple case of a problem with shadow rendering then disabling shadow rendering would be a fix. It's not.

If I was to make a wild guess I'd be looking further back than the rendering point because it's well before (and after) then that the issues start. I have also noted that when I'm standing outside a zerg with FPS of 40 and look at the zerg it can seem as if many of them are moving at 10FPS yet the scenery scrolls more smoothly than that and the people behind me animate smoothly.

There are many times where the game looks like it's rendering a 10FPS scene at a much, much higher FPS. (A bit like convering a standard movie to 60FPS without any frame blending).

But my guess is as good as anyone else's. All we see are the symptoms with zero access to code. ZOS are entirely to blame and the only ones who can fix it.

I have repeatedly noticed that the FPS can tank even if I can't see the enemy. If 50 opponents show up at a keep and I'm sitting at the transit shrine, never going outside, it'll dump down to 8-10 FPS.

Numerous times it's felt like it's sluggish, graphically, even at 40+ FPS when panning, moving. Stuttering is a good word for what it feels like it's doings -- ie skipping frames.

chris.m.tannehill_ESO

Wouldn't it be funny/sad, if one of these solutions leads to the fix(es).

Zeni would need to hire the helpers and/or perhaps think about leaving someone with some pull at the office over the weekend instead of going home to swimbbqgetdrunkxors, until every Monday when the problem has gotten worse.

Malmai

Problem is in engine they all use same... just different packing we need new open world engine for mmos...

DeLindsay

Rylana wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
There is nothing nebulous (or vague) about it, the problem is the change in how shadows on objects are rendered after the graphics update in 1.2.3.

For whatever reason, the engine is telling the GPU to enter a perpetual idle state while the CPU processes object and shadow rendering. This takes a lot of time internally, and after the process begins the GPU is never ordered to come out of idle mode (until such time as one changes map states, such as traveling to a totally different zone or restarting the client)

Your engineering team needs to look into those idle states. Then you will resolve the issue within hours instead of days/weeks.

Interesting since I don't have the FPS issues in Cyro like most do then why is MY pc doing fine with the same GPU as others who have the issue? If it was nothing more than a simple fix that anyone like yourself could rectify in a few hours why aren't you working for ZoS or sending them private messages telling them the exact problem and how to fix it?

Because if what you are saying is actually correct and you've known this for how long without doing something to fix it yourself then that's pretty shady of you.

tomiffseb17_ESO

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

There are many times where the game looks like it's rendering a 10FPS scene at a much, much higher FPS. (A bit like convering a standard movie to 60FPS without any frame blending).

This. How many times i have seen 40+ fps while i had the feeling its not even reach a stable 20-30

Rylana

Like said in my post, someone with an extremely strong CPU (one that blows away the recommended specs this game claims to need) have built in compensation for the issue causing it.

That being said, even the most powerful processor will still be overwhelmed under the right conditions. You dont see it because your system is uberhaxxorz. It is still there, however.

Just because a game can be played on a top of the line super gaming rig built in q2 2014 doesnt mean its correct. It needs to be playable at that level even just at recommended system specs printed on the box.

Anything less is dishonest.

Speaking of me being "shady" where have you been? Ive been talking about this issue for over a week and no one has listened yet.

SwampRaider

bitaken wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

To put this into perspective.

A typical mid range GPU will have anywhere from 96 - 1500 processing "cores" dedicated purely to graphics rendering. They are all much weaker individually than a CPU core, but they are much more numerous. Parallel multiple effects processing is by this virtue much more efficient on a GPU.

When you order them into the idle state, the 2-6 (sometimes 8 ) cores a high end machine has, is tasked with doing the work thousands of smaller graphics cores normally do. This is highly inefficient, and even on extreme systems will cause a marked drop in performance. The better the processor the less you see, but eventually you can and will be bogged down.

This is your bottleneck. Release rendering of shadows back to the GPU processing cores and you will solve your lockup problem.

This is made plain by the fact that leaving the map/transitioning to another location/restarting the game, removed the idle flag. The cores process normally until such time as you enter a scenario where the client orders the GPU back into the idle state and the CPU takes over (once again crashing down to under 5 FPS and locking it there, never to recover because the flag is never removed)

All well and good - but the guys making thousands of dollars per week can't seem to find the code that does what you're talking about.

So...here we are. And...there I go..

there goes half of DC's ass kicking leadership

Aeaeren

I did noticed my fan for the graphics card used to run a lot when I first started this game but here lately it quite as a mouse and I didn't notice until someone mentioned it. Just saying.

SilentThunder

All this speculation about what video issues could be causing the problem, Totally ignores all the people getting marked improvement in frame rate by turning off sound. The fix is very very simple ROLL THE PATCH BACK.

Rylana

The sound "fix" is a stopgap bandaid that alleviates a symptom (not always either) and not the cause.

Besides, playing the game without sound? Are we really going to do this just because ZOS isnt fixing the cause?

rsciw

In before "It's your computer specs!" posts.

Sound off helps some folks, not everyone. Didn't make a difference for me and others in my guild.

Tintinabula

We understand and respect the frustration in regards to our subscriptions not being renewed. We have our Bank Accountants and best spiritual leader teams currently working on tracking down and testing several things that we believe are contributing to the problem. This is a bit of a service issue, as it has several contributing factors. Each time we receive a patch, we must patch that patch to fix that patch. We promise to continue to keep asking friends who are still playing, and we do apologize that our non payment is still persisting.

Forztr

probably unrelated, but well before the current pvp fps issues i would have my graphics card max out and crash my machine staring at a wall in waycrest bank. if it was as easy a fix as everyone thinks it should be then i'm sure it would have been fixed by now. I think that there were always underlying issues with the game that the recent patch amplified.

i've always had fps hits and random crashes, its just that these only occurred in massive and i mean old school massive before the stealth population nerf battles. now 30+ is a guaranteed hit and sometimes 5v5 near a keep hits me with the 5 fps bat but not always.

all moot to me now though, i've finished the single player story on one faction, have no desire to roll an alt with the way veteran levels are done, and pvp is properly broken.

sub ends today

gl hf

wllstrt75b14_ESO

All I have to say is wow!!!! at least 3 posts in the last week from zenimax team regarding this issue alone...they must have seen a significant dip in subs to have this many posts about this issue, normally they kind of post once and then pray it goes away!

Must be panic time over there, be fun to check their website and see if they are still hiring or put a freeze on it.

And as far as anyone suggestion potential issues, I would say they are doing better then zenimax and zeni should try their ideas, it cant be worse then their own ideas at this point.

Blazzin-Ace

Rylana wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
There is nothing nebulous (or vague) about it, the problem is the change in how shadows on objects are rendered after the graphics update in 1.2.3.

For whatever reason, the engine is telling the GPU to enter a perpetual idle state while the CPU processes object and shadow rendering. This takes a lot of time internally, and after the process begins the GPU is never ordered to come out of idle mode (until such time as one changes map states, such as traveling to a totally different zone or restarting the client)

Your engineering team needs to look into those idle states. Then you will resolve the issue within hours instead of days/weeks.

Yea I noticed this a little while ago well unlike you I had no idea what was going on in technical terms however, when my fps dropped down to like 7 once i checked my gpu and it was cold as a cucumber.. playing on ultra settings, checked Precision X and it was idle not being used.

I still don't see how and why they haven't just rolled back the patch that caused all this, NOBODY GIVES A DAMN ABOUT YOUR LIGHT THROUGH WINDOWS!!! Losing all your paying customers for something nobody asked for.. honestly we've all gone from ultra to medium settings anyway and even that is barely playable..

IcyDeadPeople

It seems the team is working on a new hotfix update

ZOS_HugoP wrote: »

Greetings folks!

A hot-fix for the performance issues (FPS drop among other things) is currently being tested. We will keep you updated as soon as we are ready to implement it.

thank you!

FENGRUSH

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

It seems the team is working on a new hotfix update

ZOS_HugoP wrote: »

Greetings folks!

A hot-fix for the performance issues (FPS drop among other things) is currently being tested. We will keep you updated as soon as we are ready to implement it.

thank you!

Oh nice, a hotfix. This should go over well.

michaeletringer_ESO

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

It seems the team is working on a new hotfix update

ZOS_HugoP wrote: »

Greetings folks!

A hot-fix for the performance issues (FPS drop among other things) is currently being tested. We will keep you updated as soon as we are ready to implement it.

thank you!

well they decided to start testing....lmao

SwampRaider

my fps stopped going down to 2 today. it's lowest is 24.2 and it's highest is 60...that is..improvement i guess

quakedawg_ESO

What could go wrong?!!