Official Discussion Thread for "Creating ESO: Veteran Dungeons"

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official discussion thread for the blog article Creating ESO: Veteran Dungeons. We hope you enjoyed this peek into how veteran dungeons are created, and we look forward to having you experience Veteran Crypt of Hearts next week!

Mujuro

I just hope that any new dungeons won't be limited to light armor + staff to even be invited to groups (or kicked if you don't have).

Cody

NEVER nerf these dungeons.

elsom23

They are trying to hard and failed

Justiciar

Hope there's some fun loot to get in the new cypt of hearts. Looking forward to it

lykan_spike

Too easy... I assume your Elite dungeon team must be 10 considering how easy they are... and the Trials... can kill the first boss in 30 seconds... how is that a challenge?

Natjur

lykan_spike wrote: »

Too easy... I assume your Elite dungeon team must be 10 considering how easy they are... and the Trials... can kill the first boss in 30 seconds... how is that a challenge?

I am sure they will add an 'Elite' version for hard core gamers.
The 'Elite' version is the same as the Vet version, but your whole group/raid gets changed into Templars.

Airwolfe

First boss in Aetherian Archive can actually be killed in 20 seconds, and all mechanics ignored. Definitely no challenge.

My first run in Hel Ra was with a pug (at least partially), and we cleared it on the first attempt, I think with just one wipe - for the hardest content in the game..this is way too easy.
The difficulty is not even close to that of other raid content I've experienced in other MMOs (LOTRO- Blind One, Lieutenant of Dol Guldur, Ost Dunhoth, FFXIV:ARR- Second Coil of Bahamut). I'd like to see extemely challenging content with a high level of personal responsibility required of every raid member.

Bloodfang

Airwolfe wrote: »

First boss in Aetherian Archive can actually be killed in 20 seconds, and all mechanics ignored. Definitely no challenge.

My first run in Hel Ra was with a pug (at least partially), and we cleared it on the first attempt, I think with just one wipe - for the hardest content in the game..this is way too easy.
The difficulty is not even close to that of other raid content I've experienced in other MMOs (LOTRO- Blind One, Lieutenant of Dol Guldur, Ost Dunhoth, FFXIV:ARR- Second Coil of Bahamut). I'd like to see extemely challenging content with a high level of personal responsibility required of every raid member.

I doubt Trials are Raids though. If you check the Grouping Tool you'll notice there is a 24 man option - so my guess is in the future we will see something more difficult, though I still think Trials deserve some Elite difficulty.

cwitjesb16_ESO

The current veteran dungeon versions are no real challenge for experienced pve players which have done raids in other MMOs before.

trails...hmhmhmhm

AA: first three boss mechanics can be circumvented simply by DPS, NB ulti and siege schild + some movement.

The Hel Ra end boss is a challenge but still not really hard ...

Personally I appreciate the upcoming 4 player trails and would not like to see larger than 12 player raids... I see no benefit in having more players in the trails... just make them more challenging... not only by increasing the boss strengh ... there are many other possiblities..

Also I would like to see a loot improvement...except for some stuff... the current boss loot is mostly crap.

Mysticman

Still more stuff for the hard core MMO players which makes up about what 10% of players in ESO and no end game content for the other 90% of the players who are not hard core or who are coming from elder scroll single player games and who don't want to be forced pair up with 3 to 11 stranger in order to do end game content. The funny part is that the more content you make for the hard core MMO player the more they complain about it. Right now these not a lot of reasons for the non hard core and solo player to grind though the all veteran levels because these nothing for them in Craglorn.

Guppet

cwitjesb16_ESO wrote: »

The current veteran dungeon versions are no real challenge for experienced pve players which have done raids in other MMOs before.

Therein lies he problem the devs are having with VR levelling. If its a challenge for experienced PVE players, its nigh on impossible for those that don't fall into that category and since this game is aimed at a lot of players from non MMO backgrounds (as well as those from MMO backgrounds), they cant do that, or those players quit.

The bottom line is, if you are a skilled player, no game can ever be designed to be challenging for you, or it will be extremely niche. Your effectively saying they should build the game to please a very small percentage of the active player base.

Any game you find challenging will be a commercial failure, as the casual hoards wont accept not being able to progress. Current VR levelling falls into this category.

Justiciar

I'm OK with these tier 1 trials being fairly easy. I mean, just for comparison. Look at wows first raids. Sure they took 40 people, but otherwise the fights themselves were very basic.

That said, hope they do continue to tune the fights for the next tiers of trials.

Domperidon

I posted this once on general forum but it sinked really fast so I thought I will try put it here again.
Firstly, I love the lore in the ES series, and I do not know how I could play ESO not biting into it as deeply as possible.
But I have a problem which plagued probably many other players. When I was a low level player often chosed a LFG system to came across players. Often they had no interest in the lore or they just rushed through the dungeon. Often, for this reason I also had to skip lore. Now I would gladly redo low leveling caves just for the story. Unfortunately this is not possible. Once finished the quest can not be repeated and lore from NPC talking is gone. But there is for me little faint glimmer of hope. Not so long ago Devs wrote that the they are working on changes in dungeons system which would allow adjusting the level of the cave to group leader level. So the question is would you like (together with that changes) to see the ability to redo the quest associated with the story in a dungeon? Of course, a reward for re-finish the quest cant be skill point but only a random item or same gold.
I hope some Devs will see it and think about adding some kind of solution in future.

Mysticman

Here's a idea why not let people choose the difficulty level of a dungeons before they enter the dungeon, you could have chooses like easy, standard or hard. The people who want to be really challenged can choose hard and if you're new to MMO's or don't have a lot of experience with dungeons can choose easy and have the loot scale to different difficulty levels. Since you are already changing dungeons to allow adjusting the level of the dungeons to the group leaders level adding the ability to choose the difficulty level of dungeons should be easy.

glak

Natjur wrote: »

lykan_spike wrote: »

Too easy... I assume your Elite dungeon team must be 10 considering how easy they are... and the Trials... can kill the first boss in 30 seconds... how is that a challenge?

I am sure they will add an 'Elite' version for hard core gamers.
The 'Elite' version is the same as the Vet version, but your whole group/raid gets changed into Templars.

You have a choice, stamina build or Templar, but not both.

lykan_spike

Justiciar wrote: »

I'm OK with these tier 1 trials being fairly easy. I mean, just for comparison. Look at wows first raids. Sure they took 40 people, but otherwise the fights themselves were very basic.

That said, hope they do continue to tune the fights for the next tiers of trials.

Clearly you never did Naxx... Hardly any guilds cleared more than 2 Wings and only 1 percent of guilds even cleared it! 40 Man raids, hard content and it still went on to be the biggest MMO... so for those who say it's for the minority, you have no evidence to back this up, wow has since seen it's raid content become easier and also added real easy raid content with the LFR feature and the subs have dropped by over 2 million since Cata release... why less people playing if the game is easier? People crave a challenge, single player or in a MMO. It's the few that cry when stuff is too hard and resort to some form of cheating to over come their problems.

frankpedersenb16_ESO

As single PVE player i dont se a point of supscribe a lot of money for 5-10% elite gamers ,playing Groups, so if i end whit only Grouping im out.

Elloa

This City of Ash preview give me shivers! It's looks so gorgeous!!
I'm far from Veteran, but I had already so much fun in the Dungeon I've done! Love the stories, love the atmosphere, love the looks, love the bosses mechanic.

The only thing I find disturbing ishow the difficulty of the Dungeon will decrease or increase according to your level or gear. If you are lvl 25 for a 20-25 Dungeon, or if you wear blue items, the encounter become very easy.
I wonder if it's the case in Veteran Dungeon aswell...

Deke

Having played Vanguard Saga of Heroes since it first came out in 2006, I am very impressed with ESO, the dungeons and varied quest lines.

HaymakerXtc

Deke wrote: »

Having played Vanguard Saga of Heroes since it first came out in 2006, I am very impressed with ESO, the dungeons and varied quest lines.

i would disagree 100%. I mean in VG we didnt have ANY raids for what 2 years.. but at least when they were released it was difficult and fun as hell (APW)
and the wolrd was open , not instanced, and the dungeons were WAY larger scale, with better rewards and loot that actually progresses your character.
i guarantee i could put on full "white" gear on my Sorc and noone would notice a Difference in my playing. Being someone that PVp's alot, and has been in the top 5 world wide for Trials Time, and weekly bests.. this game is by far THE EASIEST game ive ever played.
THAT being said its still really fun.. and the dungeons you do while lvling up in 4 man..are fun.. easy still, but fun.
Trials are a Joke and an embarrassment to end game content.
(graphics are amazing however)

Airwolfe

Gonna go ahead and bump this to reiterate my disappointment. The fact that exploitable trials are still in game after an update specifically centered around trials ('hard' modes) is abysmal. Yes, record times (multiple groups) have achieved their times by using various forms of exploits - it's an abysmal design flaw, I don't necessarily blame the players. When content is based around 'who can do it the fastest', people will look for every way possible to do so. To allow these exploits without any apparent effort to fix the problems after months now..is sad.

Please get your end game act together, hire some new people who have more experience with raid design..something, because most people who play MMOs specifically for (challenging) raid content are probably unsubbing soon if they haven't already.