What happened to taunts?

Phazius

So a guild mate noticed this tip in the Death Recap http://puu.sh/9w60A/ee15eb90d9.png

The first is tip if you taunt a target more than three times, it becomes immune, this is new and UNMENTIONED in any of the patch-notes and as a Tank that's a pretty big deal.

I jumped onto pts to test this further, what we found is that if you re-apply a taunt anytime before for the current one has ended it will have no effect but you will still need to wait for its timer to end or that second taunt will break early. If you wait for the Taunt to fall off before you refresh it, everything works as it does on live where it sticks to you like expected. This is a huge deal for fights like The Warrior who will 1 shot anyone who isn't a tank if not kept under control 100% of the time and with having to refresh as soon as it falls of there is a chance that a melee dps is gonna get crushed. This effect is even worse for players who choose not to use Addons. who will not even have a timer for when their taunt will end, it will just not work with no explanation to them. Hell its not even apparent now.

Also there is the Storm Atronach Ultimate who's attack is a taunt, which doesn't work on Craglorn delve bosses or regular Dungeon bosses, works on World Bosses ( the skulls). But on normal enemies it is impossible to pull it off as long as the Atronach is channeling, mainly thinking of Bannermen here. Which again is frustrating for both the tank and the sorcerer in this case cause that Atro is very likely to die.

Would like some further clarification on what has been changed here and why? What was wrong with the current system on live? Are there legitimate "high threat" attacks we should be using, if so why are they not marked on their tooltips?

Sirlex

Lots of unanswered questions here that have been around since Early Beta! WTB some answers!

Artis

You don't need addons to see if the taunt debuff is up. There's a visual clue - your target looks kinda red and surrounded by little stars.

Wifeaggro13

Phazius wrote: »

So a guild mate noticed this tip in the Death Recap http://puu.sh/9w60A/ee15eb90d9.png

The first is tip if you taunt a target more than three times, it becomes immune, this is new and UNMENTIONED in any of the patch-notes and as a Tank that's a pretty big deal.

I jumped onto pts to test this further, what we found is that if you re-apply a taunt anytime before for the current one has ended it will have no effect but you will still need to wait for its timer to end or that second taunt will break early. If you wait for the Taunt to fall off before you refresh it, everything works as it does on live where it sticks to you like expected. This is a huge deal for fights like The Warrior who will 1 shot anyone who isn't a tank if not kept under control 100% of the time and with having to refresh as soon as it falls of there is a chance that a melee dps is gonna get crushed. This effect is even worse for players who choose not to use Addons. who will not even have a timer for when their taunt will end, it will just not work with no explanation to them. Hell its not even apparent now.

Also there is the Storm Atronach Ultimate who's attack is a taunt, which doesn't work on Craglorn delve bosses or regular Dungeon bosses, works on World Bosses ( the skulls). But on normal enemies it is impossible to pull it off as long as the Atronach is channeling, mainly thinking of Bannermen here. Which again is frustrating for both the tank and the sorcerer in this case cause that Atro is very likely to die.

Would like some further clarification on what has been changed here and why? What was wrong with the current system on live? Are there legitimate "high threat" attacks we should be using, if so why are they not marked on their tooltips?

honestly Every bit of Agro management in this game is either busted or just crap implementation and poorly thought out. a large part of why every build is max AOE DPS. just kill it all before it becomes a problem.

Kraven

Discovered it in early PTS testing there were a few fights where if you taunted a boss then re-applied the taunt before the initial wore off you had to wait until the second taunt (which did nothing at all) wore before you could actually reapply and get aggro back.

During Craglorn PTS we were glad to notice that taunts over wrote each other so that switch tanking was an option, however we also noticed that several times aggro would just drop. Taunt made no difference and was ignored several times. You'd think you had a target locked to you for the duration yet mid way through it would randomly drop that aggro, re-taunting at that point reverted to the initial problem of having to wait for the first taunt to wear off.

Tanking is fun enough with all the idiots who think we have AE taunts and are suppose to hold aggro on every mob in a room. To have those two taunts we do posses be rendered useless...is going too far. The majority of fights where tanking is required last longer than the duration of 3 taunts. If every fight in the game is going ignore tanks all together then what's the point of a tank in the first place? Heal aggro is already barely under taunting, might as well run 2 healers 2 dps and just cross heal.

Thechemicals

holy crap this is a big deal. Can a dev confirm this?

Wifeaggro13

Kraven wrote: »

Discovered it in early PTS testing there were a few fights where if you taunted a boss then re-applied the taunt before the initial wore off you had to wait until the second taunt (which did nothing at all) wore before you could actually reapply and get aggro back.

During Craglorn PTS we were glad to notice that taunts over wrote each other so that switch tanking was an option, however we also noticed that several times aggro would just drop. Taunt made no difference and was ignored several times. You'd think you had a target locked to you for the duration yet mid way through it would randomly drop that aggro, re-taunting at that point reverted to the initial problem of having to wait for the first taunt to wear off.

Tanking is fun enough with all the idiots who think we have AE taunts and are suppose to hold aggro on every mob in a room. To have those two taunts we do posses be rendered useless...is going too far. The majority of fights where tanking is required last longer than the duration of 3 taunts. If every fight in the game is going ignore tanks all together then what's the point of a tank in the first place? Heal aggro is already barely under taunting, might as well run 2 healers 2 dps and just cross heal.

In all honesty after tanking every single thing in game but the 2nd trial i think tanking mechanics are lame in this game . there is hardly any tools for the large crap 16 mob trash pulls. The CC in this game is extremely lack luster with all the nerfs and i believe at this stage of the game Tanking mechanics are nothing more then AOE DPs with a taunt.

It Lacks depth skill or any type of real fun. I laugh at the its different mentality all it is is AOE DPs with a taunt. one build fits all roles . its laughable.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

The tip about taunts in that image is not as clear as it could be, but what it calls out has always been in the game. We simply added a tip about it. Monsters cannot be taunted more than 3 times every 10 seconds, by any combination of player characters.

As for the Atronach taunt, we're removing it. That change will be going in soon (in one of the next couple patches.)

Wifeaggro13

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The tip about taunts in that image is not as clear as it could be, but what it calls out has always been in the game. We simply added a tip about it. Monsters cannot be taunted more than 3 times every 10 seconds, by any combination of player characters.

As for the Atronach taunt, we're removing it. That change will be going in soon (in one of the next couple patches.)

Pets overwrite player taunts at times as well jessica. and you cannot re taunt until pet is dead

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The tip about taunts in that image is not as clear as it could be, but what it calls out has always been in the game. We simply added a tip about it. Monsters cannot be taunted more than 3 times every 10 seconds, by any combination of player characters.

As for the Atronach taunt, we're removing it. That change will be going in soon (in one of the next couple patches.)

Pets overwrite player taunts at times as well jessica. and you cannot re taunt until pet is dead

Which pets, specifically, @Wifeaggro13‌?

Wifeaggro13

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The tip about taunts in that image is not as clear as it could be, but what it calls out has always been in the game. We simply added a tip about it. Monsters cannot be taunted more than 3 times every 10 seconds, by any combination of player characters.

As for the Atronach taunt, we're removing it. That change will be going in soon (in one of the next couple patches.)

Pets overwrite player taunts at times as well jessica. and you cannot re taunt until pet is dead

Which pets, specifically, @Wifeaggro13‌?

The Dinosaur Clannfear. It happens every so often its very evident in fights that the boss needs consistent taunting like the huge flame Daedroth in VR banished cells. If the pet gets aggro at pull you cannot regain until pet is dead . Also the pet handles the fire puddle way better then PC's lol.

Custos91

Had a couple of Hel Ra runs where atronachs were apparently taunting, if that happens while you fight a gargoyle and half of the group gets turned to stone thats dangerous^^
Also noticed there, that the winged twilight pulls the warrior from like 100 meters away^^
Edit:
Had a banished Cells run in the past where a familliar was getting the fire debuff of that daedroth too^^

Phazius

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Thanks for clearing that up Jess, make the tip clearer :P (any on the skill itself for newer players)

@Custos91 The Atro would taunt Gargoyles because they are not flagged as bosses so until it is removed that's working as normal sadly.

Custos91

Yeah thought so already, but in this case its even more seriuos then in others, Trials are actually the only case were death matters in my opinion xD

wyrdob16_ESO

Interesting, I was not aware of the taunt mechanic working like this and I played my dk as tank up to v12. I was only frustrated because every so often my taunts would simply do nothing, especially the taunt from the 1h/shield line. I resorted to mainly using the DK ability fiery grip (or its morph) as that taunts far more reliably.

The way taunting works right now feels extremely unintuitive, and lacks visual or any other feedback to make it clear to the tank and the group both who should (tank) or shouldn't (random pet x) taunt.

Kraven

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The tip about taunts in that image is not as clear as it could be, but what it calls out has always been in the game. We simply added a tip about it. Monsters cannot be taunted more than 3 times every 10 seconds, by any combination of player characters.

As for the Atronach taunt, we're removing it. That change will be going in soon (in one of the next couple patches.)

Thanks very much for clarifying. No more than 3 taunts in 10 seconds is hugely different than being immune to taunt after 3 times. Luckily I use an add on to show me the time remaining on my taunts.

pinstripesc

This is kinda unfortunate . When using 1H+shield, I use Puncture to deal damage when I run out of magicka, which is apparently screwing up my taunt if it's spammed? So I effectively have to put [whatever the skill right under Puncture is] on my bar as well, as it's the only other stamina damage dealer in the line that doesn't require distance (charge) or do little damage at all (shield bash)?

xaraan

This seems like an unnecessary restriction IMO. Who cares if someone wants to taunt something repeatedly, perhaps using the skill as an attack if needed. Tanking can be challenging enough in the game without something like this thrown in the mix.

As it is, taunt doesn't seem to work right as it is, I've used puncture to taunt several times and not used it again (at all until needing to taunt again) and the taunt does not often last the fifteen seconds (or even close to it).

Sunrock

BTW what is wrong with agro building skill and use taunt as "oh *** button" like in EQ, WoW, SWTOR and pretty mush every other MMO? To me tanking seams very boring and easy mode when all you need to do is keep the 15 sec taunt debuff up.

eventHandler

I am so glad the atro taunt is being removed. I hate when sorc's use atro; it messes up my tanking in multiple ways. Now all I have to worry about is the atro's standing in the way and flashing lightning sparks in my eye to make it harder to see what the boss is doing.

I've also never seen that visual cue mentioned above of a taunt wearing off. For the first couple of months the combat cues option was greyed off, and now that it turns on after a recent update, I still don't see it. Half the time even the health bars don't show up unless I have my cursor over a mob too. So, work needs done on that stuff before its a viable alternative to addons (if it ever can be for end-game content).

pinstripesc

I don't see any visual effect that indicates Puncture is holding aggro on mobs. The Undaunted one has a red flashy effect.

traigusb14_ESO2

I get a red effect on Ransack now... since last patch maybe.

pinstripesc

You're right, I was going to edit that after I realized I'd discovered that then forgotten again hah. I think it is relatively new though. Could be wrong.

Wifeaggro13

Aggro managment in this game is non existent. If we had true CC for these huge trash pulls in VR dungeons it would be a bit more strategic. Currently its just AOE spam Volcanic rune and AOE DPS as fast as you can its not very fun or much of a challenge , i like utilizing choke points and such . but true long term CC and increased Diffculty of mobs would be a much greater chaenge and group dynamic instead of AOE DPS

Rosveen

pinstripesc wrote: »

You're right, I was going to edit that after I realized I'd discovered that then forgotten again hah. I think it is relatively new though. Could be wrong.

I had the red effect on Puncture before the patch.

Sangeet

It works different , before i was able to chain taunt, now the aggro switches if i reapply the taunt before its run out.