Current CC system is Garbage needs work

Bloodvax

Ok........heres the latest rage causer in my pvp experiences. The current CC break out system has you bash out for stuns knockdowns fears etc and has you roll out of roots. Sounds ok on paper except know we have DK's (this is just an example) who shield charge you (knockdown) then root you while your on the ground. Now you cant bash out of the knockdown because your rooted which requires you to roll. Your now stuck on the ground with no way out and most likely your dead before you get up. Now before you go saying you can just bash out of the knockdown, with server lag and other things there isnt really any time before the root hits you. Not sure what the best way to fix this is since any class that can both root and knockdown can hit you with this. Maybe making bash get you out of every CC would be the best fix.

quakedawg_ESO

Immovable? I'm rarely without it if I'm not mounted

Lepratul

Charge is not DK spell everybady have it and all have spamable stun.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

InvictoNZ

CC break should not be % based.

Break free and Bash shouldn't be bound to the same key. Though it is funny to force a weaver to use up their stamina.

You could try holding the block key down at all times in combat. Then press your instant cast abilities to do damage or heal.

I don't even use Immovable in PvP... waste of a slot if you can just block all abilities.

joshisanonymous

The only thing I find frustrating about the CC system is the responsiveness of the controls for the game in general. It's not that hard to deal with, it's just harder than it should be because you have to predict what you'll have to do half a second earlier.

Bloodvax

Yeah not saying its any abilities that need to be tweaked its the way immunity works. All i see is just hold block all the time. But if thats what you have to resort to it slows down movement speed to a crawl during combat. Then you've devolved all pvp encounters to insta cast spam against blocking targets till one side gives in. Sounds really lame if you ask me

Tintinabula

There are gonna be times when you are locked down. Its part of the system and I might add not only does this occur with shield charge and talons but a list of other skills as well.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Can also be a possible bug that you can't CC break the knockdown stun if you are rooted right after.

jmoore59

Going to throw this out there as well I have also noticed that randomly a knock down or stun will be unbreakable. What I mean is I will have full stamina and be unable to break the cc.
At first I thought it was lag however it randomly happens when nothing else is lagging so I am thinking it is a bug.
It is also not based on a single cc its completely random. It can be anything from Ult stun such as NB Soul Tether to shield charge knock down.

maczcoobb16_ESO

you can break a stun even if you are rooted too. however, the 1h+shield #4 ability glitches out atm and makes the knockdown unbreakable atm sometimes ( sometimes being about 90% of the time ).
i like the interrupt system but as it is right now the stunbreak animation should be either instant or alot faster than it is.
let's say i'm stunned for 3 seconds and i decide to stunbreak after 1 second ( should be realistic considering lag and reaction time ), the animation of the stunbreaker takes so long that i could just not break the stun at all and save my stamina.

Shaun98ca2

hmmmm must be glad the root only hits 6 people

Bloodvax

I was thinking it was unbreakable due to you have 2 different CC effects on you at once that each require a DIFFERENT action to break out of i.e. root (roll) and knockdown (break out) in which the system isnt sure which action you will actually need to free yourself. And before you DK's get more defensive this isnt about classes its about a broken mechanic that occurs with ANY combo of CC's

EnOeZ

CC Breaking system is just one of the main reasons people are leaving.

1 - Stamina based : why ? ZOS do you realize how it is or do you assume imbalance between magicka and stamina users ?
2 - Impossibility to recover from Horse fall (god I HATE it) : it is just not fun not being able to fight back when in that situation, especially if they are two them. And if you do, breaking cc and breaking root => out of stamina => no possibility to play => no game => no enjoyment for the player => stop subscription
3 - Did I say completely unfair to stamina-heavy characters ?
4 - Adds pain to the already painful lag system.
5 - TESO being without cooldowns, Hard CC-immunity should be paired with root-cc immunity, otherwise it is utterly unfair to melees (who eat all the CCs).

So few melees in Cyrodil, between stamina-joke ressource system, stamina-joke cc breaking system, cc fest, lag system and 6 months non EU server, melee hate (no one plays melee DPS in ZOS design staff as shown in their recent videos) AND heavy armor hate... I have just the full joke-hate system as a character.

What we like as players is the ability to PLAY, COUNTER-PLAY and COUNTER COUNTER PLAY. Among the best players of all games (e-sportish games), we can even play a 100% mind game, or meta game. In TESO, there is not even counter play (apart from block and spell reflect) due to no CDs, lag and the much too simplistic 5 abilities only design.

The only gameplay mechanic in PVP is CC first and break CC. Sure we could add on paper roll-dodge, but due to STAMINA HATE System, No stamina player can both use it and fight : as melee stamina users, we HAVE TO choose to survive OR to fight.

As an heavy armor, 100% melee heavy armor, stamina based very aggressive character, TESO just offers no room for me.

Finally, branded AAA MMO, with a CCC technical layout considering abilities unresponsiveness, lags, and clunky weapon switch, doorkeeps that do not open, horse falls that are fatals, and stamina-hate (really I just don't understand why breaking cc uses stamina with no compensation to stamina users - why why why ???) I feel soo gimped...

Then THE REASON I play games : skill. In the game design of TESO, to me there is no consideration of skill requirements PVP-wise. That's the reason no-one is known for as a skilled player, even 3 months after the game... Why : there is no skill involved in PVP apart from zerging. More accurately, the PVP skillcap is very, very low and the lag and unresponsiveness of abilities just make it worse.

It is NOT FAIR and NOT ENJOYABLE AT ALL as stamina players to base CC-breaking system on stamina only without any compensation mechanic nor itemization even worse for heavy armor users.

frwinters_ESO

Bloodvax wrote: »

l. Your now stuck on the ground with no way out and most likely your dead before you get up. Now before you go saying you can just bash out of the knockdown, with server lag and other things there isnt really any time before the root hits you.

It sounds like to be the CC mechanic is fine, you just don't like lag.....

TheGrandAlliance

A better way to put this thread is:


Name me a TES game with this many CC abilities in it...

Bloodvax

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

Bloodvax wrote: »

l. Your now stuck on the ground with no way out and most likely your dead before you get up. Now before you go saying you can just bash out of the knockdown, with server lag and other things there isnt really any time before the root hits you.

It sounds like to be the CC mechanic is fine, you just don't like lag.....

lul wut? really? it happens when there's no lag. its a broken mechanic lag only factors in the minority of the time

SilentThunder

Currently Knockdown + stun or root = dead you canot break ether stun or root while knocked down and knockdown will not expire till AFTER the stun or root. Not shure if this is a bug or working as intended.

Lowbei

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

A better way to put this thread is:


Name me a TES game with this many CC abilities in it...

... its an mmo, genius

Samadhi

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

A better way to put this thread is:


Name me a TES game with this many CC abilities in it...

Oblivion had a fair bit of CC in it actually. It just played out a little differently because all enemies were computer controlled.

Knockdown, paralyze, burden, frenzy, calm, command, demoralize, silence, drain attributes, damage attributes, drain magicka, drain fatigue, disintegrate weapons or armour -- there were a number of methods of crippling enemies in combat.

Bloodvax

SilentThunder wrote: »

Currently Knockdown + stun or root = dead you canot break ether stun or root while knocked down and knockdown will not expire till AFTER the stun or root. Not shure if this is a bug or working as intended.

This is EXACTLY what the thread was started for. Its like the system cant determine HOW you need to break the CC. since you need to break out of the knockdown/stun but you need to ROLL out of the root. And therefore you cant do anything. Sorc was doing this last night with shield charge then the Cone root they have. It's a broken mechanic. If they had it so you just had to break out for ALL CC effects I think some of the problem would be fixed.

Xsorus

Yea.. happens to me all the time, incredibly annoying

Also super annoying, Biting Jabs... Its not so bad if you're fighting a single Templar, however if a Templar adds on your fight, the second you get hit by it, you're dead..Because by the time you do the CC break animation, you're already hit by it again and off balanced again....repeat till dead.

incredibly annoying to fight.

Lowbei

biting jabs needs an immunity timer

Starshadw

Bloodvax wrote: »

This is EXACTLY what the thread was started for. Its like the system cant determine HOW you need to break the CC. since you need to break out of the knockdown/stun but you need to ROLL out of the root. And therefore you cant do anything. Sorc was doing this last night with shield charge then the Cone root they have. It's a broken mechanic. If they had it so you just had to break out for ALL CC effects I think some of the problem would be fixed.

This is a good point - and there may also be a problem with the system not knowing which effect you need to break first (does the first one applied take priority? Or is there some other prioritization going on? And, really, if we've been spammed with multiple AOE cc, how would we even know which one has the priority? End result is that neither of the cc break options work.

I think two things need to happen here to solve the problem:

1. Only one CC/breakable effect (I'm including "breakable" effects like the black bubbles as well since they work similarly) can be active on any character. As soon as the first effect hits, a cc/effect immunity timer begins, and any other effects are null and void until the timer runs out. I recommend at least a 10-15 second immunity timer. It is no fun for anyone to be spam cc'ed to death. This would include things like AOE CC (hello, DK talons, I'm looking at you) - if you get hit with an AOE CC and you break it, you are then immune from getting hit with it again, even if you're still in the AOE, until your immunity timer runs out. So if you get stunned, and someone then drops a talons on top of you - the talons would not affect you, only the stun. And if you break the stun, the talons still wouldn't affect you.
2. All effects should be broken in the exact same way - the devs need to choose either the "use interrupt" or the "dodge roll" and that is the way to break all of these similar effects. That removes the guesswork of "do I need to dodge roll? Interrupt? Both?!?"

These two things would take care of the issue of cc/effect spamming (which is what we have now - I've had situations where not only was I stunned, but hit with AOE talons by two DKs at the same time (I know this from the death recap), and had a Standard dropped on me as well) - making cc once more tactical in use, as opposed to "everyone throw all your AOE/stuns/cc ALL THE TIME!!"

Obviously, the other issue is, quite simply, the cc break right now is buggy as hell, and this MUST be fixed. When we hit our interrupt or dodge roll, it MUST work, and work all the time.

Halrloprillalar

Starshadw wrote: »

Bloodvax wrote: »

This is EXACTLY what the thread was started for. Its like the system cant determine HOW you need to break the CC. since you need to break out of the knockdown/stun but you need to ROLL out of the root. And therefore you cant do anything. Sorc was doing this last night with shield charge then the Cone root they have. It's a broken mechanic. If they had it so you just had to break out for ALL CC effects I think some of the problem would be fixed.

This is a good point - and there may also be a problem with the system not knowing which effect you need to break first (does the first one applied take priority? Or is there some other prioritization going on? And, really, if we've been spammed with multiple AOE cc, how would we even know which one has the priority? End result is that neither of the cc break options work.

I think two things need to happen here to solve the problem:

1. Only one CC/breakable effect (I'm including "breakable" effects like the black bubbles as well since they work similarly) can be active on any character. As soon as the first effect hits, a cc/effect immunity timer begins, and any other effects are null and void until the timer runs out. I recommend at least a 10-15 second immunity timer. It is no fun for anyone to be spam cc'ed to death. This would include things like AOE CC (hello, DK talons, I'm looking at you) - if you get hit with an AOE CC and you break it, you are then immune from getting hit with it again, even if you're still in the AOE, until your immunity timer runs out. So if you get stunned, and someone then drops a talons on top of you - the talons would not affect you, only the stun. And if you break the stun, the talons still wouldn't affect you.
2. All effects should be broken in the exact same way - the devs need to choose either the "use interrupt" or the "dodge roll" and that is the way to break all of these similar effects. That removes the guesswork of "do I need to dodge roll? Interrupt? Both?!?"

These two things would take care of the issue of cc/effect spamming (which is what we have now - I've had situations where not only was I stunned, but hit with AOE talons by two DKs at the same time (I know this from the death recap), and had a Standard dropped on me as well) - making cc once more tactical in use, as opposed to "everyone throw all your AOE/stuns/cc ALL THE TIME!!"

Obviously, the other issue is, quite simply, the cc break right now is buggy as hell, and this MUST be fixed. When we hit our interrupt or dodge roll, it MUST work, and work all the time.

10s is WAY too long in pvp. ESO will turn into Rift's "IMMUNE IMMUNE IMMUNE" roflfest if that gets implemented.

There is already a system in place to prevent cc chains, but it's not working properly. Basically it seems to disable breakout entirely if one of the abilities is not 'breakoutable', and actually allows the action of 'breakout' to be interruptible by further cc, which is dumb.

If breakout worked properly none of this would be an issue.

TheGrandAlliance

Lowbei wrote: »

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

A better way to put this thread is:


Name me a TES game with this many CC abilities in it...

... its an mmo, genius

Since when did MMOs NEED CC? I have yet to see a case made that requires it.

TheGrandAlliance

Samadhi wrote: »

Oblivion had a fair bit of CC in it actually. It just played out a little differently because all enemies were computer controlled.

Knockdown, paralyze, burden, frenzy, calm, command, demoralize, silence, drain attributes, damage attributes, drain magicka, drain fatigue, disintegrate weapons or armour -- there were a number of methods of crippling enemies in combat.

The highlighted ones are not crowd control. That is damge modifiers.


Furhtermore most Illusion spell magic only works on humanoids (not daedra) and some limited other situations. Paralyze rarely lasts for more then a second or so and knockdown isnt a big deal in a game that combat speed is much slower.


There, of course, is no talon claws and all the rest that this game has: This game has a ton of CC in it.

Limitless

It takes 52% of my stamina to break out of a hard CC, and it takes 39% of my stamina to roll.

That leaves me with no stamina to use my stamina based abilities with.

A guildmate of mine said something that made sense to me; why not have it so that you must use magicka to break out of magicka based abilities, and stamina to break out of stamina based abilities

Either way, I know that when I get hit by Invasion > Talons this is usually my reaction

TheBucket

I love watching all these magic dps builds who say stamina build are worthless crying about CC

Bloodvax

Honestly a few things I think might help is to give all CC's a global immunity. Reduce the stam cost of roll. OR: add a new resource bar for breaking out and rolling. Once you've used all of that resource then it starts ticking from your mana pool.

supernico

As a DK I can't deny that talons are a little OP. I think the fix for talons and/or any immobilize cc would be the possiblity to rotate on your axis while inside talons/immobilize. That would allow yo to deal damage and be aware of the surroundings.

Halrloprillalar

supernico wrote: »

As a DK I can't deny that talons are a little OP. I think the fix for talons and/or any immobilize cc would be the possiblity to rotate on your axis while inside talons/immobilize. That would allow yo to deal damage and be aware of the surroundings.

this does not prevent you from getting *** by a banner in any way

I have no issue with immobilize itself, I have an issue with it preventing me from using breakout.