I figured out mechanism of BE nerf, and it is still bugged (technical, no flame, rep needed)

Mystborn

You don't need to solve the equation if you just understand that the 50% is applied additively. Once you realise that the issue is over right?

Go check out your crystal fragments, if you wear the same gear you were before (includng the rings) it should cost 263 magicka.

When you proc your insta cast with 50% reduced magic how much do you expect it to cost? 132 right?

Wrong, it will cost 67 because the 50% reduced cost from the CF tooltip is applied in the same way as the 50% increased cost from the BE tooltip is - additively.

Shouldn't there be topics complaining about that also?

crislevin

Mystborn wrote: »

You don't need to solve the equation if you just understand that the 50% is applied additively. Once you realise that the issue is over right?

Go check out your crystal fragments, if you wear the same gear you were before (includng the rings) it should cost 263 magicka.

When you proc your insta cast with 50% reduced magic how much do you expect it to cost? 132 right?

Wrong, it will cost 67 because the 50% reduced cost from the CF tooltip is applied in the same way as the 50% increased cost from the BE tooltip is - additively.

Shouldn't there be topics complaining about that also?

I would if I think that matters, I bet nobody cares enough of those.

Btw, with due respect for your insight, which is very much appreciated, it's not entirely "additive" when the there are quite a few multiplications in the equation.

And clear math aside, the effect of this design, which now I see is WAI, does indeed exclude passive cost reduction from reducing that 50% increase. I now emphasis this IS a design choice.

Now, this is a big nerf, I want to be sure that at minimum, when they are setting such a precedent, they clearly come out and document that somewhere, so we are all held to the same standard they set in future changes.

WebBull

BE is fine. I really don't understand all the crying. The last two nights I still see players BE'ing all over the place. It works, stop whining.

crislevin

tdilloncub18_ESO wrote: »

BE is fine. I really don't understand all the crying. The last two nights I still see players BE'ing all over the place. It works, stop whining.

if you have something to flame, please go to flame thread, this is technical thread where we discuss the numbers.

and its all cleared up already, thanks.

danreckerpreub18_ESO

To play devil's advocate...

OP does have a point, in a roundabout sort of way. I would really like some math provided by the devs as to how this should work. If there's a bug in the way some mana-cost reductions function when interacting with passive / gear based reductions, this may not have been picked up in internal testing. That said, the fact that bonuses / reductions SHOULD be additive, rather then multiplicative is more then most devs say in most other MMOs.

If you really want them to give it another look, I recommend finding / authoring a mod that logs and records mana use, then do a series of tests in every gear / skill configuration you can think of. Analyze it, and provide both information and raw log data via the forums. If you find any discrepancies in mana consumption based on how you think they intend it to function, say so, and say why. If you are really this dedicated, help them improve the game, rather then verbally flagellating the devs from whom you demand fixes.

Huckdabuck

Mystborn wrote: »

Like I said, it's not a super clear and explicit response. It's certainly not as in depth as the half dozen replies I've made filled with math trying to explain how it works. Due to it's ambiguity it could be interpreted multiple ways - one way would be to say that the -21% reduction you get from evocation will reduce the 50% increase in cost from +50% to +29% (50-21=29). I know how you read it and I don't blame you or anyone for expecting it to work the way you did and then being upset when it didn't. But I feel like right now you understand how the whole cost reduction thing works and you see that it's working consistently with the way their game works as a whole so there doesn't seem to be anything gained from bashing the Mod who made that post. What do you want them to say? "Sorry I should have been clearer"? Jess and Gina and all the community management people have a very difficult job being the liasons between us, the community, and the devs while working within the confines and restrictions that management allows them. I think they do a great job and raking them over the coals when they are trying to help because they didn't answer as explicitly as they could just seems not cool.

Ever heard of the expressions "Just heal to full" or "They have a perception problem" ? Those meme's and video's should be on every devs/community managements office wall as examples of why detailed and fully explicit answers are necessary in todays interwebz world. I honestly thought the interwebz was going to implode that weekend!

danreckerpreub18_ESO

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Mystborn wrote: »

Like I said, it's not a super clear and explicit response. It's certainly not as in depth as the half dozen replies I've made filled with math trying to explain how it works. Due to it's ambiguity it could be interpreted multiple ways - one way would be to say that the -21% reduction you get from evocation will reduce the 50% increase in cost from +50% to +29% (50-21=29). I know how you read it and I don't blame you or anyone for expecting it to work the way you did and then being upset when it didn't. But I feel like right now you understand how the whole cost reduction thing works and you see that it's working consistently with the way their game works as a whole so there doesn't seem to be anything gained from bashing the Mod who made that post. What do you want them to say? "Sorry I should have been clearer"? Jess and Gina and all the community management people have a very difficult job being the liasons between us, the community, and the devs while working within the confines and restrictions that management allows them. I think they do a great job and raking them over the coals when they are trying to help because they didn't answer as explicitly as they could just seems not cool.

Ever heard of the expressions "Just heal to full" or "They have a perception problem" ? Those meme's and video's should be on every devs/community managements office wall as examples of why detailed and fully explicit answers are necessary in todays interwebz world. I honestly thought the interwebz was going to implode that weekend!

Random semi off-topic thing, also semi relevant :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbQgvvFLawM