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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
CYRODIIL NEW PLAYER PSA
Halrloprillalar
✭✭✭✭✭
If you haven't done much pvp and looking to start, some tips to save you headaches early on:
1) Get vet rank (higher is better, but even just VR1 brings your survival odds far above <50) and make good gear, or buy cheap dominion sets.
2) Do some reading and make a pvp spec: include some kind of self healing, run away/stealth/cc. Don't expect your pve build to work in pvp. Be flexible. Use breakout (RMB+LMB) if you get cc'd (doesn't work on roots and snares) - uses lots of stam.
3) Find a group. Solo heroes tend to get ganked a lot more, get (generally) less AP and tend to be less useful except as scouts. Even if all you want is to gank, a small stealth group is preferable.
4) When in a group: follow your leader. Being spread out while in a group is like not being in a group and negates its purpose. If you're group leader, make sure you pay attention to where your group is, how many are healing, siegeing, etc.
5) Kick offline people ASAP so you don't get the super lag/dc from large group bug.
6) Rez and heal people if you can: dead people have 0 effectiveness. Be careful to not die yourself however, it's better to only have one than two dead. Only grand soul gems are usable in Cyrodiil.
7)Avoid obvious chokepoints if you are alone (like bridges on the way to a promised siege). It is a ganker's favorite toy... unless you are looking to mess with them (just expect >1)
8)Commiting suicide by pve does not let you rez at just any place: only at the start WS or where you died. You can only 'kamikaze' by attacking enemy faction or their NPCs
9)Transitus lines become unavailable when all the resources are lost for the keep or when the outpost walls get to 50%. Breaking a connection also disconnects downstream keeps. You cannot travel out of an outpost, only to.
10)You can purchase all siege/repair equipment at any quartermaster (in keeps, resources, at start area). Use them from the quickslot.
SIEGE EQUIPMENT:
1) Dominion ballista: reloads faster than a treb, does good siege damage. Use it when assaulting keeps. ATTACK WALLS NOT DOORS (postern). Postern doors won't take siege dmg but gates do.
2) Rams: excellent for gate knockdowns but highly susceptible to oil. Only use if you can spam purge/siege shield and heal through the damage (best for lightly defended keeps). Obviously only set the ram up while next to the gate, facing it.
3) Meatbag/fireball catapult. Excellent anti-personnel /countersiege for discouraging enemy zergs. DO NOT USE ON WALLS.
4) Oil: excellent for keep defense when the offense gets on the gate or even inside. Possibly unintended, oil can be used on the ground right next to it, which can be extremely effective at keeping people out even when the wall is breached. IT PUTS THE OIL ON THE SKIN... Needless to say, standing in enemy oil is generally inadvisable. It can be removed with purify (templar synergy) or purge (support skill).
5) Caltrops (assault skill): excellent for slowing down enemies that chase or during keep breach.
6) Forward camp: highly recommended for taking enemy keeps or defending key keeps if they are under attack and you cannot spawn there. Try to hide them from the enemy if possible (or spawn them on controlled resources). You can only rez at them, not travel to them and they are expensive: use wisely. Also there is currently a bug where if the camp is interrupted before placed (or for any other magical ZOS reason) the camp becomes unusable and another camp cannot be placed in the vicinity. In such cases it is often advisable to lure enemies to burn said camp so a new one can be placed.
7) Stacking: you can use multiple sieges with one person (use, fire, leave right after, hop another, etc.). Not sure the exact optimal ratio but I'd guess it's around 3 for ballista and maybe 4 for treb, YMMV. This allows more people to gank wall defense, scout the area and kill npcs.
8) Siege equipment takes durability damage if you burn/attack it with other siege AND slowly over time and from being used. There is siege 'repair' equipment but I haven't done the math on whether it's worth it (no room in bags anyway).
There is more nuanced tactics that you will learn as you level up in Cyrodiil but the above will be useful to anyone not familiar with much alliance warfare.
P.S. Before choosing a 'home' campaign, guest on a few and decide on which you like. It costs 5k AP to switch guest and 15k to switch home. Home bonuses apply always, guesting gets you nothing but AP.
Edited by Halrloprillalar on 11 June 2014 17:02 1) Get vet rank (higher is better, but even just VR1 brings your survival odds far above <50) and make good gear, or buy cheap dominion sets.
2) Do some reading and make a pvp spec: include some kind of self healing, run away/stealth/cc. Don't expect your pve build to work in pvp. Be flexible. Use breakout (RMB+LMB) if you get cc'd (doesn't work on roots and snares) - uses lots of stam.
3) Find a group. Solo heroes tend to get ganked a lot more, get (generally) less AP and tend to be less useful except as scouts. Even if all you want is to gank, a small stealth group is preferable.
4) When in a group: follow your leader. Being spread out while in a group is like not being in a group and negates its purpose. If you're group leader, make sure you pay attention to where your group is, how many are healing, siegeing, etc.
5) Kick offline people ASAP so you don't get the super lag/dc from large group bug.
6) Rez and heal people if you can: dead people have 0 effectiveness. Be careful to not die yourself however, it's better to only have one than two dead. Only grand soul gems are usable in Cyrodiil.
7)Avoid obvious chokepoints if you are alone (like bridges on the way to a promised siege). It is a ganker's favorite toy... unless you are looking to mess with them (just expect >1)
8)Commiting suicide by pve does not let you rez at just any place: only at the start WS or where you died. You can only 'kamikaze' by attacking enemy faction or their NPCs
9)Transitus lines become unavailable when all the resources are lost for the keep or when the outpost walls get to 50%. Breaking a connection also disconnects downstream keeps. You cannot travel out of an outpost, only to.
10)You can purchase all siege/repair equipment at any quartermaster (in keeps, resources, at start area). Use them from the quickslot.
SIEGE EQUIPMENT:
1) Dominion ballista: reloads faster than a treb, does good siege damage. Use it when assaulting keeps. ATTACK WALLS NOT DOORS (postern). Postern doors won't take siege dmg but gates do.
2) Rams: excellent for gate knockdowns but highly susceptible to oil. Only use if you can spam purge/siege shield and heal through the damage (best for lightly defended keeps). Obviously only set the ram up while next to the gate, facing it.
3) Meatbag/fireball catapult. Excellent anti-personnel /countersiege for discouraging enemy zergs. DO NOT USE ON WALLS.
4) Oil: excellent for keep defense when the offense gets on the gate or even inside. Possibly unintended, oil can be used on the ground right next to it, which can be extremely effective at keeping people out even when the wall is breached. IT PUTS THE OIL ON THE SKIN... Needless to say, standing in enemy oil is generally inadvisable. It can be removed with purify (templar synergy) or purge (support skill).
5) Caltrops (assault skill): excellent for slowing down enemies that chase or during keep breach.
6) Forward camp: highly recommended for taking enemy keeps or defending key keeps if they are under attack and you cannot spawn there. Try to hide them from the enemy if possible (or spawn them on controlled resources). You can only rez at them, not travel to them and they are expensive: use wisely. Also there is currently a bug where if the camp is interrupted before placed (or for any other magical ZOS reason) the camp becomes unusable and another camp cannot be placed in the vicinity. In such cases it is often advisable to lure enemies to burn said camp so a new one can be placed.
7) Stacking: you can use multiple sieges with one person (use, fire, leave right after, hop another, etc.). Not sure the exact optimal ratio but I'd guess it's around 3 for ballista and maybe 4 for treb, YMMV. This allows more people to gank wall defense, scout the area and kill npcs.
8) Siege equipment takes durability damage if you burn/attack it with other siege AND slowly over time and from being used. There is siege 'repair' equipment but I haven't done the math on whether it's worth it (no room in bags anyway).
There is more nuanced tactics that you will learn as you level up in Cyrodiil but the above will be useful to anyone not familiar with much alliance warfare.
P.S. Before choosing a 'home' campaign, guest on a few and decide on which you like. It costs 5k AP to switch guest and 15k to switch home. Home bonuses apply always, guesting gets you nothing but AP.
"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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Lord_Draevan✭✭✭✭✭
✭Halrloprillalar wrote: »-When in a group: follow your leader.
-ATTACK WALLS NOT DOORS.
These, a million times these. Also: if you set up stone trebs for defense, it'd better be because you've got nothing else. Even then, don't, let people set up ballistae and catas instead.
Another thing, try to keep tactical information out of zone chat as much as possible. Might sound paranoid, but there are sometimes spies relaying information to the other factions and I've heard rumours of people with several screens watching live streams of opposing faction's zone chats.Edited by Lord_Draevan on 10 June 2014 17:57I'm a man of few words. Any questions?NA/PC server1 -
Junipus✭✭✭✭✭Don't forget to add:
Hitting the postern door on the inner keep or at the outposts.
Hitting the wall at that corner, then setting up siege in that tower and the wall next to it makes it easier to defend.
Also to zerg in and up the stairs and then take out the guards on top whilst staying away from the grilled area.
Then set up as much oil as you can to hit the guards inside by the flag whilst taking out the guards who come upstairs.
Lastly hit the guards at the rear flag and then stealth to the inner flag to avoid aggro from the transitus mages.
Boom, keep's yours with only 6-10 players.The Legendary Nothing1 -
frwinters_ESO✭✭✭✭I say get in there at level 10. If yoru with a group you can still be viable as a healer, ranged combat and siege combat. Xp was boosted so if your on a populated server, like Wabbajack, and join a large army yuou will get good XP.1 -
Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭frwinters_ESO wrote: »I say get in there at level 10. If yoru with a group you can still be viable as a healer, ranged combat and siege combat. Xp was boosted so if your on a populated server, like Wabbajack, and join a large army yuou will get good XP.
The stat scaling is wonky (not sure if it got much better with recent patches, judging by my bf's reaction on his baby sorc I'm going to say no) and it doesn't take cost reduction passives from armor into account, or anything else on your gear for that matter. You can be naked and still have the same stats.
In other words you'll be oom constantly as lvl 10, and die in 2 hits of anything.
If you like being the siege b!tch and maybe reconnaissance stuff, yes. Otherwise low level players have a hard time in cyrodiil. Hopefully the upcoming campaign changes will address this.
"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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frwinters_ESO✭✭✭✭Halrloprillalar wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I say get in there at level 10. If yoru with a group you can still be viable as a healer, ranged combat and siege combat. Xp was boosted so if your on a populated server, like Wabbajack, and join a large army yuou will get good XP.
The stat scaling is wonky (not sure if it got much better with recent patches, judging by my bf's reaction on his baby sorc I'm going to say no) and it doesn't take cost reduction passives from armor into account, or anything else on your gear for that matter. You can be naked and still have the same stats.
In other words you'll be oom constantly as lvl 10, and die in 2 hits of anything.
If you like being the siege b!tch and maybe reconnaissance stuff, yes. Otherwise low level players have a hard time in cyrodiil. Hopefully the upcoming campaign changes will address this.
Not really as you can still use enchants for your level to boost your numbers as well as food and potions.0 -
maholi✭✭✭ATTACK WALLS NOT DOORS. Doors won't take siege dmg except from rams (gates)
Doors do take siege damage from siege besides a ram.
Solo heroes tend to get ganked a lot more, get (generally) less AP and tend to be less useful except as scouts.
Technically, you get more AP going solo. If a guy is worth 800 points and you are in a raid of 20, you automatically split that number by 20 people. If you are solo you get all 800 points. If someone from the 20 man raid hits the guy and you (solo) hit the guy, the raid splits their portion and you get your portion.
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Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭ATTACK WALLS NOT DOORS. Doors won't take siege dmg except from rams (gates)
Doors do take siege damage from siege besides a ram.
Solo heroes tend to get ganked a lot more, get (generally) less AP and tend to be less useful except as scouts.
Technically, you get more AP going solo. If a guy is worth 800 points and you are in a raid of 20, you automatically split that number by 20 people. If you are solo you get all 800 points. If someone from the 20 man raid hits the guy and you (solo) hit the guy, the raid splits their portion and you get your portion.
I meant posterns. You get nothing attacking the doors there. Gate is fine.
If you can solo gank people effectively, all the power to you.
All I meant is that your quarry is less likely to be alone, more likely to kill you and you will take longer running back than if you were in a group with a modicum of organization.
You do get less AP if you're zerging and getting wiped by said organized groups.
"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭double post
Edited by Halrloprillalar on 10 June 2014 19:20"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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Don't forget that fire ballistas only do half damage to walls.
Protip: Stone> Fire
There is always that ONE guy that uses fire ballista on the damn walls. Don't be that guy1 -
Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭the.dzeneralb16_ESO wrote: »Don't forget that fire ballistas only do half damage to walls.
Protip: Stone> Fire
There is always that ONE guy that uses fire ballista on the damn walls. Don't be that guy
Yes about the fire. The only reason to use fire is counter-siege or poop on people on the inner keep (if you can spare the siege slots)
Stone trebs do more dmg/hit but reload a lot slower than bolt ballistas.
"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭frwinters_ESO wrote: »Halrloprillalar wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I say get in there at level 10. If yoru with a group you can still be viable as a healer, ranged combat and siege combat. Xp was boosted so if your on a populated server, like Wabbajack, and join a large army yuou will get good XP.
The stat scaling is wonky (not sure if it got much better with recent patches, judging by my bf's reaction on his baby sorc I'm going to say no) and it doesn't take cost reduction passives from armor into account, or anything else on your gear for that matter. You can be naked and still have the same stats.
In other words you'll be oom constantly as lvl 10, and die in 2 hits of anything.
If you like being the siege b!tch and maybe reconnaissance stuff, yes. Otherwise low level players have a hard time in cyrodiil. Hopefully the upcoming campaign changes will address this.
Not really as you can still use enchants for your level to boost your numbers as well as food and potions.
Food and potions yes.
Enchants and gear do not register on the stat sheet last I checked.
"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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Halrloprillalar wrote: »the.dzeneralb16_ESO wrote: »Don't forget that fire ballistas only do half damage to walls.
Protip: Stone> Fire
There is always that ONE guy that uses fire ballista on the damn walls. Don't be that guy
Yes about the fire. The only reason to use fire is counter-siege or poop on people on the inner keep (if you can spare the siege slots)
Stone trebs do more dmg/hit but reload a lot slower than bolt ballistas.
Yeah, trebs are slower and have longer reload but also have more hp. Ballistas have higher dps.0 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just make sure you are either: in a large group, or VR12 with legendary gear. Everything else you will figure out yourself.0 -
maholi✭✭✭NookyZooky wrote: »Just make sure you are either: in a large group, or VR12 with legendary gear. Everything else you will figure out yourself.
Totally disagree. Being a large group buys you nothing.
edit: And of course you don't have to be V12.Edited by maholi on 10 June 2014 20:020 -
Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭You can damage postern doors with siege other than ram if you hit the edges.
the entire wall comes down not the door. Hence hit the wall.NookyZooky wrote: »Just make sure you are either: in a large group, or VR12 with legendary gear. Everything else you will figure out yourself.
You don't *have* to be V12. I've killed enough V12s as VR8-10 in a mix of blue /purple gear. You just need to have an effective team (regardless of size), and know when to engage and when to GTFO
"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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frwinters_ESO✭✭✭✭
tHalrloprillalar wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »Halrloprillalar wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I say get in there at level 10. If yoru with a group you can still be viable as a healer, ranged combat and siege combat. Xp was boosted so if your on a populated server, like Wabbajack, and join a large army yuou will get good XP.
The stat scaling is wonky (not sure if it got much better with recent patches, judging by my bf's reaction on his baby sorc I'm going to say no) and it doesn't take cost reduction passives from armor into account, or anything else on your gear for that matter. You can be naked and still have the same stats.
In other words you'll be oom constantly as lvl 10, and die in 2 hits of anything.
If you like being the siege b!tch and maybe reconnaissance stuff, yes. Otherwise low level players have a hard time in cyrodiil. Hopefully the upcoming campaign changes will address this.
Not really as you can still use enchants for your level to boost your numbers as well as food and potions.
Food and potions yes.
Enchants and gear do not register on the stat sheet last I checked.
Enchants do. Just recently i respeced my abilities and got nice clear armor made with no enchants trying to figure out what i wanted to reach close to my soft caps. Started magicka, put on enchants, boom went up. Enchants and gear do register on the stat sheet.0 -
Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭frwinters_ESO wrote: »
tHalrloprillalar wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »Halrloprillalar wrote: »frwinters_ESO wrote: »I say get in there at level 10. If yoru with a group you can still be viable as a healer, ranged combat and siege combat. Xp was boosted so if your on a populated server, like Wabbajack, and join a large army yuou will get good XP.
The stat scaling is wonky (not sure if it got much better with recent patches, judging by my bf's reaction on his baby sorc I'm going to say no) and it doesn't take cost reduction passives from armor into account, or anything else on your gear for that matter. You can be naked and still have the same stats.
In other words you'll be oom constantly as lvl 10, and die in 2 hits of anything.
If you like being the siege b!tch and maybe reconnaissance stuff, yes. Otherwise low level players have a hard time in cyrodiil. Hopefully the upcoming campaign changes will address this.
Not really as you can still use enchants for your level to boost your numbers as well as food and potions.
Food and potions yes.
Enchants and gear do not register on the stat sheet last I checked.
Enchants do. Just recently i respeced my abilities and got nice clear armor made with no enchants trying to figure out what i wanted to reach close to my soft caps. Started magicka, put on enchants, boom went up. Enchants and gear do register on the stat sheet.
Good to know, didn't work for me a month ago.
But unless you can get your hp into the 2.5+k range, you're still basically gank bait.
"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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Supersun✭✭Halrloprillalar wrote: »3) Meatbag/fireball catapult. Excellent anti-personnel /countersiege for discouraging enemy zergs. Longer reload.
Longer reload than what? A DK's ultimate?
Catapults are the fastest of the main 3 siege types.0 -
Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭Halrloprillalar wrote: »3) Meatbag/fireball catapult. Excellent anti-personnel /countersiege for discouraging enemy zergs. Longer reload.
Longer reload than what? A DK's ultimate?
Catapults are the fastest of the main 3 siege types.
you shouldn't be sieging walls with firepot/meatbag.
I meant ballista vs treb for wall siege.
Edited by Halrloprillalar on 11 June 2014 19:06"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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Supersun✭✭Halrloprillalar wrote: »Halrloprillalar wrote: »3) Meatbag/fireball catapult. Excellent anti-personnel /countersiege for discouraging enemy zergs. Longer reload.
Longer reload than what? A DK's ultimate?
Catapults are the fastest of the main 3 siege types.
you shouldn't be sieging walls with firepot/meatbag
I meant ballista vs treb for wall siege.
Err, might want to edit that to make it more clear. I still can't see how that's talking about Ballistas vs Trebs.
Also, you forgot another important hint. You can operate more than one siege weapon at once by running between them between their reload times.1 -
Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭Halrloprillalar wrote: »Halrloprillalar wrote: »3) Meatbag/fireball catapult. Excellent anti-personnel /countersiege for discouraging enemy zergs. Longer reload.
Longer reload than what? A DK's ultimate?
Catapults are the fastest of the main 3 siege types.
you shouldn't be sieging walls with firepot/meatbag
I meant ballista vs treb for wall siege.
Err, might want to edit that to make it more clear. I still can't see how that's talking about Ballistas vs Trebs.
Also, you forgot another important hint. You can operate more than one siege weapon at once by running between them between their reload times.
good points, will add."nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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Izatar✭✭✭I see a lot of bad advice and lack of nuance here; I recommend thinking for yourself instead of following this guide and the commentary here.Edited by Izatar on 11 June 2014 00:180
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Pancake-Tragedy✭✭✭✭✭I see a lot of bad advice and lack of nuance here; I recommend thinking for yourself instead of following this guide and the commentary here.
I completely agree that people should think for themselves, but the OP has great information for people that have little to no experience in Cyrodiil. Of course, after getting more experience they can determine their own tactics and strategies.
These tips can go along way to increasing the pvp population, since the initial tutorial is fairly lack luster and many people run around without a clue of what they should be doing.
Great starter post in my opinion.Edited by Pancake-Tragedy on 11 June 2014 00:55Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer2 -
Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭I see a lot of bad advice and lack of nuance here; I recommend thinking for yourself instead of following this guide and the commentary here.
by all means suggest your changes, because saying 'this sucks' isn't helpful."nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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Tintinabula✭✭✭✭✭
✭The way to leave Cyrodiil The way to leave Cyrodill is to go to either of the main gates and up behind the quest boards there is a regular wayshrine(not a transit wayshrine) but a gazebo up some steps. This gets you the **** out .
learn how to crouch....hide is your friend. Invest in some detect potions. I love bait..bait helps me flush out gankers...Don't be bait.;)
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Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭You will also get kicked from Cyrodiil if you log off in a 'locked' campaign (e.g. Wabba). If you are stuck, broken, or for whatever reason need to 'reset', it's best to hard quit or Alt+F4 and hurry back in, or else you'll be in queue.
"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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Tintinabula✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't run passed enemy siege equipment without destroying it. Yes, our siege equipment CAN destroy their siege equipment but pressing E and 5 seconds in comparison to 5 minutes of shooting the equipment is much more effecient.
The only way to repair walls is with stone...doors is with wood. Rarely doors are attacked..usually walls are torn down. Buy stone.
Where to buy stone?..Siege merchant near transitus wayshrine..if not there..back left postern door in relation to front inner keep door.
Walls can only be repaired if the wall has not recently taken damage. This is why it is imperative that you destroy siege engines. One unnoticed siege engine attacking a wall can prevent your allies from porting in or repairing the wall.
While defending do not use trebuchets. Trebuchets are blunt and slow and work well against walls(offense)..not so well against other siege engines.
Meat bags in combination with fire ballistas are deadly. meat bags make healing almost impossible..fire comes in and does the damage.Edited by Tintinabula on 11 June 2014 22:201 -
Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭When the enemy group piles into a resource keep which you have just capped... there is only one reason for it:
An Oil Party.
In short, it means if you follow them inside right away by yourself, you will die. You need to group up, have at least 2-3 people spam purge and siege shield, and a sorc ready with negate and a dk with banner, or NB with veil. Pop unstoppable before you enter. First negate on the first floor, purge/heal, rush upstairs. Drop the other ults on the top, and start cleaning. Kill everything from the top down, have a few people mopping up those jumping outside.
If you can't do it like that, just leave them and they will eventually dissipate. There is no point getting AP farmed by oil spam."nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
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