How to love your Nightblade with Dual Wield.

Tjeerd

There is a lot of complaining about Nightblades ánd Dual Wielding. I would like to share my build and strategy, because it works very well. It's a funny and effective way to play if you like to be in control of a battle, instead of just doing damage.

Character Points:
Magicka: 9
Health: 20
Stamina: 20

Skillbar
Dual Wield Skills
Blood Craze (Bleeds target and player recovers health over time)
Rapid Strikes (High damage and increases attack speed)
Heated Blades (Target will miss all melee attacks for 4 seconds)
Nightblade Skills - Shadow
Dark Cloak (Invisible for 2.5 seconds and remove DOT)
Mass Hysteria (Induce fear in two enemies, lower weapon damage and snare)
Ultimate: any will do, but I like to use Consuming Darkness (NB Shadow)

Enchantments
On both daggers:
Glyph of Absorb Stamina (Deal x Magic damage and recover y Stamina)
On medium armor:
+ Health or + Stamina
Jewelry:
On all three pieces: Glyph of Reduce Feat Cost (Reduce the cost of stamina skills)

General
The combination of enchantments will make it possible to spam the stamina skills. One stamina skill, blood craze, lets you recover health. Without touching magicka, the stamina and health should stay up quite long. If you need a boost to stamina, you can activate cloak with some magicka. This will trigger extra stamina regenaration if you did spend skillpoints on the passive shadow skill: Refreshing Shadows.
The magicka is used to control targets or to slip away invisible. This means magicka is used to deal with tough situations, which is why it is good to not use magicka for dealing damage.

Strategy (pve) - Possible actions

1. High dps. Usually when dealing with ranged mages and archers. Use a stealth attack if possible as an opening strike. Spam Rapid Strikes and use Blood Craze now and then to keep your health up. Rapid Strikes does the most damage per second and increases attacking speed for a while, which gives even more damage per second.

2. Controlled vs ranged. Usually when dealing with 3+ enemies, mostly ranged. Use Mass Hysteria to make enemies run away and snare them. Try to fear melee units, while you attack any ranged target. You should be able to kill off one ranged unit before others get back from fear. Use High dps strategy to finish off all targets one by one.

3. Controlled vs melee. When dealing with 3+ enemies, mostly melee. Don't use stamina skills too much, because this time you need the stamina to keep using Heated Blades on alle enemies now and then. This makes the enemy not being able to even do damage. As long as you keep hitting targets with the Heated Blades skill now and then, you can hit targets with regular hits to slowly kill them. The enchantments will keep your stamina up. Mass Hysteria will help here too, it will keep melee units running away.
Because you can use magicka on Mass Hysteria and stamine for Heated Blade, a group of melee units is the easiest to deal with. When done perfectly right, you will be at 100% health after the fight.

4. Low health. Try to use Blood Craze only. Stamine cost for Blood Craze with the jewelry enchantment is very low and your daggers get back stamina too. This means you can spam Blood Craze forever. Blood Craze keeps you alive by giving some health back over time. You can try to kill targets this way or try to let your magicka regenerate a while so you can cloak very long to slip away.

5. Dark Cloak. Can obviously be used to slip away, but there is more to it. Being invisible makes enemies stop doing anything or attack something else. When you are alone, the dark cloak can give you a small break, while you regenerate once or twice. Enemy attacks can miss you or get interrupted when you cloak.

Loco_Mofo

What's your DPS with this setup if you don't mind me asking?

Aeradon

What level do you recommend this build for?

I would personally place heated blades on optional due to it's extreme properties.

Single Target DPS
Blood Craze
Rapid Strikes
Shadow Cloak
Surprise Attack
Leeching Strikes / Reaper's Mark if geared
Soul Harvest

AOE DPS
Lotus Fan
Steel Tornado
Refreshing Path / Swallow Soul
Sap Essence / Mass Hysteria
Leeching Strikes / Blood Craze or Rapid Strikes if geared
Soul Tether

I personally love leeching strikes. It's so flexible as you can DPS with it, or tank with it.

Sindala

Urgh great......that's almost the build I use and now the whiner are gonna start calling for it to be nerfed.
Please keep builds to yourselves!!!!

Gisgo

Sounds good if i was still in pve i would try it.

Dark cloak lasts for 2.9 seconds! Thats like... forever

Tenofas

May I ask you what level are you? Because from what I read in the forums, stamina builds for NB work fine till Vet6 (more or less), above that it becomes extremely hard as the fight last a lot more and the mobs deal a lot more damage. And I don't see Leeching strikes/Syphoning attaks in your build which is the standard for a high rank vet in PvE apparently.
(BTW, I am only lvl 44, so what I wrote is based only on what I read every day in the forums)

Gisgo

Im VR12 stamina builds DO work, just not as well as magicka builds.
You just cant say it out loud or you will get flamed.

*hides*

Tjeerd

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

What's your DPS with this setup if you don't mind me asking?

That's a very good question. I have never used any addon for eso, so I don't know the actual dps. At the moment I don't really feel like using an addon only to answer your question, but maybe, if more people want to know, I will do it later.
For this build DPS is only based on the Rapid Strikes skill, which is single target only. It takes down one enemy fast, but I don't think it will reach a really high DPS. Therefore in dungeons I switch with my bow for area based damage, which will probably reach a much higher DPS.

I am questing in a VR3 zone now and if I play serious, I never die and I can take on up to 3 enemies solo. Most people seem to struggle with more than two enemies and also most people think Nightblade ánd Dual Wield is underpowered.

My strategy is not about dps, but about balancing the fight, so it can last as long as I want. In my opinion that's more important than pure dps.

Animus0724

Well I use a magicka build and rely almost entirely on my stealth and CC for survivability, works so far as my death rate is quite low. Large mob? Simply walk pass them

Tjeerd

Aeradon wrote: »

What level do you recommend this build for?

I used this from veteran rank 1 to veteran rank 4 and I don't think it will change that much up to veteran rank 12. But I will see.

Sindala wrote: »

Urgh great......that's almost the build I use and now the whiner are gonna start calling for it to be nerfed.
Please keep builds to yourselves!!!!

I don't think my build is overpowered, it's about strategy and using skills right. No reason to nerf it, right? Great to hear more players use similar builds!

Gisgo wrote: »

Sounds good if i was still in pve i would try it.
Dark cloak lasts for 2.9 seconds! Thats like... forever

Indeed, with the right passives, Dark Cloak will even last longer and make you move faster! I don't use many magicka points or enhancements, but with full Magicka I can run invisible with a speed boost for over 10 seconds. I never tried, but this could be nice in PvP too.

Tenofas wrote: »

May I ask you what level are you? Because from what I read in the forums, stamina builds for NB work fine till Vet6 (more or less), above that it becomes extremely hard as the fight last a lot more and the mobs deal a lot more damage. And I don't see Leeching strikes/Syphoning attaks in your build which is the standard for a high rank vet in PvE apparently.
(BTW, I am only lvl 44, so what I wrote is based only on what I read every day in the forums)

I am VR4 right now. I don't believe all those stories on the internet. It would be very weird if a build would start to fail after veteran rank 6. Players would have invested 200 hours and all skillpoints to reach that point. It might get harder after each rank, but that would also count the same for magicka builds.

Gisgo wrote: »

Im VR12 stamina builds DO work, just not as well as magicka builds.
You just cant say it out loud or you will get flamed.

*hides*

Gisgo

Tjeerd wrote: »

Indeed, with the right passives, Dark Cloak will even last longer and make you move faster! I don't use many magicka points or enhancements, but with full Magicka I can run invisible with a speed boost for over 10 seconds. I never tried, but this could be nice in PvP too.

Yes with Rapid maneuver + concealed weapon + the steed + dark cloak + the shadow passives that will regen your stamina you can pretty much cross Cyrodiil at horse speed without running out of either stamina or magicka.

Tenofas

Tjeerd wrote: »

I am VR4 right now. I don't believe all those stories on the internet. It would be very weird if a build would start to fail after veteran rank 6. Players would have invested 200 hours and all skillpoints to reach that point. It might get harder after each rank, but that would also count the same for magicka builds.

Gisgo wrote: »

Im VR12 stamina builds DO work, just not as well as magicka builds.
You just cant say it out loud or you will get flamed.

*hides*

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn, I played from start a stamina build, DW/Bow, and never ever had any trouble... but now, that I am approaching Vet Rank (lvl 44 at the moment) and since in the forums a lot of NB are complaining about how bad a stamina build perform in the Vet ranks, I spent almost all my money to respec to a Resto/Magika build. And I am having a VERY HARD time playing with a resto staff!
After reading this thread, and your comments, I think I will farm for the gold needed to respec again to a stamina build.
Thanks!

Gisgo

Tenofas wrote: »

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn, I played from start a stamina build, DW/Bow, and never ever had any trouble... but now, that I am approaching Vet Rank (lvl 44 at the moment) and since in the forums a lot of NB are complaining about how bad a stamina build perform in the Vet ranks, I spent almost all my money to respec to a Resto/Magika build. And I am having a VERY HARD time playing with a resto staff!
After reading this thread, and your comments, I think I will farm for the gold needed to respec again to a stamina build.
Thanks!

Lesson 1: do not trust the forum without trying it for yourself!
Lesson 2: if you like to play an assassin, turning your character into a mage will not make you happy, no matter how good is your new spec.

Tjeerd

Gisgo wrote: »

Yes with Rapid maneuver + concealed weapon + the steed + dark cloak + the shadow passives that will regen your stamina you can pretty much cross Cyrodiil at horse speed without running out of either stamina or magicka.

There are even more options for speed and stamina recovery in Medium Armor, Woodelf skill lines and the Twisting Path skill (Shadow). Nice combos indeed!

Gisgo

Oh and Orcs are even faster, too.
Damn them.

Tjeerd

"Tenofas wrote: »

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn, I played from start a stamina build, DW/Bow, and never ever had any trouble... but now, that I am approaching Vet Rank (lvl 44 at the moment) and since in the forums a lot of NB are complaining about how bad a stamina build perform in the Vet ranks, I spent almost all my money to respec to a Resto/Magika build. And I am having a VERY HARD time playing with a resto staff!
After reading this thread, and your comments, I think I will farm for the gold needed to respec again to a stamina build.
Thanks!

Yeah, I think you should not have problems at level 44 already. The jump from level 50 to Veteran Rank 1 is big, but all else scales nicely. Might be some other issue you experienced or overlooked.
In my opinion the game is quite balanced, it's just about finding the right setup. And people look too much for dps maybe. A good crowd control makes dungeons much easier. Interrupting or negating or evading enemy attacks is better than exchanging damage. In dungeons the players are outnumbered and out-dps-ed, so better not exchange damage there!

SilverWF

That's how:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9lfjehN94

Yaso1804

I read all your posts, and all of you dont understand the problem.

People are complaining about ENDGAME DPS not about leveling.
I'm usually not THAT GUY, but if you cant beat veteran content as a Nightblade, learn to play...

I have a VR12 Nightblade which is my main and a VR12 Dragonknight twink.
I leveled all 4 classes at least to VR1 and i can say that Nightblade is the class which was least fun to do 1-50.
But after you hit VR1 you are shredding through content as a sneaky dualwield assassin as shown in the video above
Dragonknight was the easiest 1-50 but VR1-VR12 wasn't that great.

Dualwield light attacks don't do enough damage, my light staff non crit do more damage than a dw light attack crit.
A lot of enemies are bleed immune.
The Dualwield abilities are weak or too expensive.
Stamina is a defense stat, you cant burn it to 0 like casters do with magicka.
The good Dualwield passives don't apply to bosses at all.

I could go on with this for a while...

But you have to realise that nightblade is not the problem, all stamina builds are affected.

We see it as a nightblade problem because most of us (me included) created our nightblade to play a classic dualwield thief with daggers and a bow, and now we are frustrated because we can't do that.
Most people want to play the archetype of their class.
Sorcerer are caster, Dragonknights are heavy armored warriors and templar are like paladin.

The balancing problem is that nightblades are very strong in PvP, you cant just raise their weapon damage.

LadyDestiny

I played this build with my dw, bow nightblade all the way to VR4. Worked pretty good up until then, but when the nasty npc's got boosted to heck, and never fixed, I had to switch over to full health and gear for stamina and magic. I really loved having all that extra dumped into stamina, Damage was really nice, but it seems that at higher VR my damage could not out do the npc's damage and healing and and stunning and what not, mixed with all the bugs and problems that nb was suffering. I lost health real fast and would die rather quickly to mobs of 3 or more.......Might be working for others, but not for me now.

Glissando

SilverWF wrote: »

That's how:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9lfjehN94

Stop posting your crap VR2 video all over the place,get VR12 and we'll talk after.I farm even better than you do at VR12 but i still can't get more than 400 dps on a boss fight,be it bow or dw,and i have all epic gear with legendary bow/daggers.

nerevarine1138

Alternatively, you can take advantage of the Shadow passive that supercharges your stamina regen after using any Shadow abilities and/or the Haste morph that does the same. Stacking those, I can keep 100% uptime on my Rapid Strikes.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

how much dmg can you do on blood craze and how many stamina u got?

Bromburak

Most of your strategies doesn't make any sense to me.

As you explained by your self, you only have enough magicka for tough situations but you actually use magicka quite often in your standard situations. Your mentioned strategies for 3+ packs but recommend cloak, stealth attack and mass hysteria ... While melee enemies come back out of fear (3-4 sec)
you expect the second ranged target is dead.

Your strategy is pure theory , more realistic is that you unfortunately use cloak again, or mass hysteria a second time to stick with your origin plan because you have not the burst that is required for within 3 seconds for your strategy ...

However at this point you almost have no magicka left, and you think you have a 3-4 second burst coming from a stamina build until your feared pack is back.

Why are you not using class skills that actually support your melee dual wield strategy with proper cost/value?

You could stack 3 additional PASSIVE HOTS by using direct damage and dots like funnel health, refreshing path and sap essence.

While all those dots and hots tick, your magicka has time enough to recover while you focus on your fight with stamina based skills.

Don't get me wrong but i really don't understand why you actually pick a class like the NB if you replace all the strong class skills that offer great support for a dual wield build.

Character Points:
Magicka: 9
Health: 20
Stamina: 20

Sure, its a matter of preference.

But I would not suggest hybrid attributing because your base is very important and should provide the highest outcome and to stay flexible for any build.

Everything you optimize should be done by gear and not by adjusting the core setting of your class.

If you need a boost to stamina, you can activate cloak with some magicka. This will trigger extra stamina regenaration if you did spend skillpoints on the passive shadow skill: Refreshing Shadows.

The stamina reg will be a passive ability that does not require activating a shadow skill any longer. (refreshing shadows - patch notes)

Tjeerd

Thanks for the feedback!

Bromburak wrote: »

Most of your strategies doesn't make any sense to me.

As you explained by your self, you only have enough magicka for tough situations but you actually use magicka quite often in your standard situations. Your mentioned strategies for 3+ packs but recommend cloak, stealth attack and mass hysteria ... While melee enemies come back out of fear (3-4 sec)
you expect the second ranged target is dead.

Your strategy is pure theory , more realistic is that you unfortunately use cloak again, or mass hysteria a second time to stick with your origin plan because you have not the burst that is required for within 3 seconds for your strategy ...

However at this point you almost have no magicka left, and you think you have a 3-4 second burst coming from a stamina build until your feared pack is back.

First of all, it's not a theory. I tried to describe how I play and this comes from my main character.
I didn't explain to never use magicka in the fight. I said it's not needed to use magicka to do damage. Also I did not say I had enough magicka for tough situations, I said the magicka is primarely used for tough situations. In a 1v1 fight in pve I dont even use magicka.
I use magicka to crowd control or to flee. Activating hysteria one or even two times and regenerate it for one or two ticks, leaves enough magicka to flee with three Dark Cloak activations. Also, when I notice I will win the fight, I will use all magicka for Hysteria and just kill them.

Hysteria does not only induce fear for 3.2 (or more with passives) seconds, it also reduces targets weapon damage with 30% and snares for 50%. It takes over 5 seconds for a feared enemy to return to me and I can take one normal hit with 30% less damage if needed. With a good sneak attack I can kill a regular enemy within 4 seconds. Without sneak in 5-6 seconds, which still is good enough. I can take some damage, because I also trigger healing with Blood Craze.

Why are you not using class skills that actually support your melee dual wield strategy with proper cost/value?

You could stack 3 additional PASSIVE HOTS by using direct damage and dots like funnel health, refreshing path and sap essence.

This is a good suggestion. I actually planned to spend upcoming skillpoints in that direction.

While all those dots and hots tick, your magicka has time enough to recover while you focus on your fight with stamina based skills.

Don't get me wrong but i really don't understand why you actually pick a class like the NB if you replace all the strong class skills that offer great support for a dual wield build.

Well, I choose to fully gear to Shadow. I do not have enough skillpoints or VP to level siphoning at the moment. If I had 20 more skillpoints I would definately use more class skills.

Character Points:
Magicka: 9
Health: 20
Stamina: 20

Sure, its a matter of preference.

But I would not suggest hybrid attributing because your base is very important and should provide the highest outcome and to stay flexible for any build.

Everything you optimize should be done by gear and not by adjusting the core setting of your class.

I don't get your point here. What would you suggest? I guess you would like more points in stamina? For the moment I like this hybrid alot. Got enough health to endure a match and more stamina than magicka obviously. My gear is adjusting to more stamina (or health if I need some quick replacement gear from looting).

If you need a boost to stamina, you can activate cloak with some magicka. This will trigger extra stamina regenaration if you did spend skillpoints on the passive shadow skill: Refreshing Shadows.

The stamina reg will be a passive ability that does not require activating a shadow skill any longer. (refreshing shadows - patch notes)

Didn't know (forgot)! Nice find.

Bromburak

Tjeerd wrote: »

With a good sneak attack I can kill a regular enemy within 4 seconds. Without sneak in 5-6 seconds, which still is good enough.

Yes, but after opening with cloak , sneak attack for ranged mob Nr. 1 and mass hysteria for the melee adds its another magicka based move for ranged mob nr. 2.

So far you didn't use any stamina skills but ran out of magicka ...

It's just weird when you play a stamina strategy but waste all your magicka from the beginning.

I can take some damage, because I also trigger healing with Blood Craze.

Imho this is not pulling it , its not enough healing.

This is a good suggestion. I actually planned to spend upcoming skillpoints in that direction.

Yes, then you would really have a nice stack of hots on you beside or without blood craze ...

Actually this "hot rotation" is the only way to avoid using a healing staff as NB during long fight challenges. The only passive heal sources you can get while your focus is doing damage. (not as much then it could be, but a great trade of on a long run and very melee friendly class skill support)

I still prefer the healing staff in Craglorn tho, mostly after using mass hysteria.

Because basically hysteria is a damage stop and it gives you some time for recasting buffs, mutagen or whatever and you come back with 80-100% when fear ends.

Its efficient and fun to play.

I don't get your point here. What would you suggest? I guess you would like more points in stamina?

Personally health because its neutral for any of my stamina or magicka based builds and i get the best outcome without burning points to softcaps.

If you never play magicka builds and always stick with stamina go ahead it doesnt matter.

I will go full magicka or stamina or at least split into both as soon Zenimax is raising the Soft caps for Veteran levels. Its coming they just don't know when its in the game.

OrangeTheCat

I love my dual-wielding NB. I am sure my build differs from yours as I just use what I think is fun and seems to work. But I think it's fun.

Tjeerd

Bromburak wrote: »

Tjeerd wrote: »

With a good sneak attack I can kill a regular enemy within 4 seconds. Without sneak in 5-6 seconds, which still is good enough.

Yes, but after opening with cloak , sneak attack for ranged mob Nr. 1 and mass hysteria for the melee adds its another magicka based move for ranged mob nr. 2.

So far you didn't use any stamina skills but ran out of magicka ...

It's just weird when you play a stamina strategy but waste all your magicka from the beginning.

No, you misunderstood. The sneak attack is done without cloack. Just with 'sneaking'. It gives a 100% critical hit and stun. It does not cost magicka! The hysteria is the only magicka skill used and that leaves enough magicka to flee or continue hysteria to finish the group off.

I can take some damage, because I also trigger healing with Blood Craze.

Imho this is not pulling it , its not enough healing.

Agreed with the low amount of healing, but it did save me alot of times. It's equivalent to taking a health potion. I will look into the siphoning skills you mentioned anyway, those will complement well.

Bromburak

Tjeerd wrote: »

No, you misunderstood. The sneak attack is done without cloack. Just with 'sneaking'. It gives a 100% critical hit and stun. It does not cost magicka! The hysteria is the only magicka skill used and that leaves enough magicka to flee or continue hysteria to finish the group off.

Ok, thats great i thought your opener is surprise attack or concealed weapon.

joshisanonymous

I'm surprised you use Mass Hysteria when meleeing. I tried this out a bit before but it was far more trouble than it was worth. Sure, it's awesome CC, but not when you can't aim it and when you have to be next to the mob you're attacking to deal damage to them.

When I used it against groups, I just ended up chasing after the feared targets so that I could keep doing damage, which ultimately ran me into other mobs that I didn't want to pull.

I can see how it would work situationally, like when you have 2 melee on you and an archer. You can then use it to get rid of the melee and kill the archer before returning to the melee, but that's pretty much the only situation it seems useful in for solo PvE.

Glad to see something different, though. I don't think NBs or DW are really in that bad of a place myself.

SilverWF

Glissando wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

That's how:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9lfjehN94

Stop posting your crap VR2 video all over the place,get VR12 and we'll talk after.I farm even better than you do at VR12 but i still can't get more than 400 dps on a boss fight,be it bow or dw,and i have all epic gear with legendary bow/daggers.

I'll post it again and again, deal with it

Also, your words without proof - just words. There is nothing impossible to the good player, so stop complain

Tjeerd

joshisanonymous wrote: »

I'm surprised you use Mass Hysteria when meleeing. I tried this out a bit before but it was far more trouble than it was worth. Sure, it's awesome CC, but not when you can't aim it and when you have to be next to the mob you're attacking to deal damage to them.

When I used it against groups, I just ended up chasing after the feared targets so that I could keep doing damage, which ultimately ran me into other mobs that I didn't want to pull.

I can see how it would work situationally, like when you have 2 melee on you and an archer. You can then use it to get rid of the melee and kill the archer before returning to the melee, but that's pretty much the only situation it seems useful in for solo PvE.

Glad to see something different, though. I don't think NBs or DW are really in that bad of a place myself.

You describe exactly the downside of my strategy. When I start a game-session I also fail some at first. After getting the feel back, it all comes back together. It does require some planning before attacking and player-skill. When I fail with Dual Wield it usually is because I ran into some group I didn't expect and I can't plan.

Failsafe is the invisibility with Dark Cloak. Also, offcourse it's all situational. I switch to my bow too, depending on the situation. With the bow I can do area damage and immobilize a group of enemies for 30 seconds by using the stamina(!) bow skills. With the bow fights are boring, but I do more dps than with dual wield and I can keep a safe distance. If I had to choose one weapon over the other it would be the bow. Dual Wield needs more planning and skill, but is much more fun and very deadly when used right.