Just stop with this 'Hold RMB' = skillful playing ZOS

Nandred

I'm a sorc and I know know that BE is getting the biggest nerf spanking in this games short history soon. However, this is nothing compared to the hold block and win. This is absolutely mind boggling of a mechanic. It makes DK's gods with their class abilities and sorc's pretty tanky too when they hold down the button spec for inst cast/procs with a 1200 stam pool for break/block.

I use a stam build with a two-hander with my sorc because i thought the flexibility of playing your own way was true. Now I know that is absolutely sub optimal thanks to leather being **** in passives save the first one, but I AM PUNISHED using a two-hander. I have to leave my self open to attack while I swing or use my abilities. Players with instant cast class spells that just hold the RMB exhume this aura of being the difference between a good player and being bad (obviously cookie cutting is a factor too).

Stop nerfing DK's, stop nerfing Sorcs.

Get these mechanics changed, I bet that if you changed the game to be unable to cast while blocking, A vast majority of your 'OMG DK'S OP' will be over. Its a flawed mechanic, we know it, you know it. When the mechanics of the game are changed to be less hilariously bad, then focus on appeasing the nerf mob.

Keep fixing NB's, and for the love of god help the Templars.

Rylana

Nail has met head in this thread, and so now I can hit the bed as if dead.

Wolfahm

100% AGREE, this needs to be changed the whole mechanic is a joke.. If DK's and Sorcs could not hold down block well suing many of the skills that make them "OP" they would not be nearly as OP as people think. This would 100% also fix MANY of the problems that lead the Nightblades to lack in PvP as a Assassin build..


Would also like to add blocking 360 degrees is a joke.. rear attacks should not be blockable... ever..

Nightblades do it from behind.

Kiljaz

Couldn't be more to the point. Block needs a serious rework.

Censorious

There's nothing wrong with block.

1/ It doesn't stop damage, just mitigates it.
2/ Each attack blocked uses a chunk of stamina so the block only holds a few strikes.
3/ You can only move very slowly while blocking.

If someone blocks - you just throw light attacks until they stop blocking - easy.

Of course, if you just want to stun-lock-and-burst you're out of luck. This isn't WoW and Nightblades are not Rogues.

Tintinabula

Block does however stop chains dead.I had hoped it would only lower the chance of blocking a spell like that..nope..completely and utterly blocks chains.

My bf and i had a "difference of opinion" about that..I think your chances of blocking should not be 100% on a snag skill like that..he disagrees.

Kililin

Censorious wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with block.

1/ It doesn't stop damage, just mitigates it.
2/ Each attack blocked uses a chunk of stamina so the block only holds a few strikes.
3/ You can only move very slowly while blocking.

If someone blocks - you just throw light attacks until they stop blocking - easy.

Of course, if you just want to stun-lock-and-burst you're out of luck. This isn't WoW and Nightblades are not Rogues.

Yes there are problems with block or the combat system in general:

1 - is the reason every tank has to nearly permablock and HA is so bad, because mitigation comes from blocking instead of armor
2 - and thats one of the reasons stamina builds/weapons are bad, res triple dipping, mitigation from blocking
3 - please elaborate, its true but what do you mean? This is irrelevant in so many situations. Also a reason for melee weapons being worse than ranged.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

You cant block forever.
You still take damage while blocking
Many attacks aren't even blockable.
If you are down to the point where you are stuck blocking, you are probably going to die soon.

Stop finding a new thing to cry about.

Kililin

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

You cant block forever.
You still take damage while blocking
Many attacks aren't even blockable.

Stop finding a new thing to cry about.

thats just ignorant, blocking is one of the reasons for the few good cookie cutter builds. at least try to find an argument against the ones brought up, if you understand them, if not maybe ask for clarification.

bugulu

Blocking in a 360 degree arc should be changed. You should only be able to block things when you are actively facing it.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Kililin wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

You cant block forever.
You still take damage while blocking
Many attacks aren't even blockable.

Stop finding a new thing to cry about.

thats just ignorant, blocking is one of the reasons for the few good cookie cutter builds. at least try to find an argument against the ones brought up, if you understand them, if not maybe ask for clarification.

This thread is another attack on another combat ability in the game because someone is mad that their skill is getting nerfed. Needs to stop. Blocking has not been nor will ever be a get out of damage and live card like BE.

Oh and guess what, they are fixing some abilities that caused you to stop blocking soon (someday)!


[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Kililin

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Kililin wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

You cant block forever.
You still take damage while blocking
Many attacks aren't even blockable.

Stop finding a new thing to cry about.

thats just ignorant, blocking is one of the reasons for the few good cookie cutter builds. at least try to find an argument against the ones brought up, if you understand them, if not maybe ask for clarification.

This thread is another attack on another combat ability in the game because someone is mad that their skill is getting nerfed. Needs to stop. Blocking has not been nor will ever be a get out of damage and live card like BE.

Oh and guess what, they are fixing some abilities that caused you to stop blocking soon (someday)!

I use blocking all the time, i am one of the builds having no problem using it.
Obviously it exceeds your mental capacity to understand the arguments or the proposed solutions. Nobody in this thread even says that blocking should be removed or nerfed, but that it has lots of unwanted implications, like being better able to block as an Staff build like mine, than as an Stamina build that should be able to melee better.


[Moderator Note: Edited Quoted Material]

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Really, because I hear more crying about nerfing blocking overall than making blocking fall off while using a spell. That is what happens when spells are insta cast. You want this to stop, all spells will need a cast time. Everything will need a cast time. The things you can't use while blocking either have a cast time or are a targeted ground effect. This is not so much a problem with blocking as it is with a problem with insta cast skills where others are not insta cast. Not to mention some of them aren't blockable, as I mentioned. Block and heal with a dress, I know all about that. Templars know all about that too, meanwhile they call dragon blood Op.

I would so love if impulse, talons, mages fury, etc had a cast time on them too. I don't expect that to happen any time soon and "nerfing blocking" won't give the same effect.

And what is this about stamina builds. there are other threads for about how they suck compared to magica builds.

And cut it with the exceeds mental capacity crap. Overused line is overused.

What we can do, is just do like all the other copy/paste goobers and make staff/light armor builds with unblockable attacks because ZoS is going to take their sweet time changing any of this.

Anastasia

Censorious wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with block.

1/ It doesn't stop damage, just mitigates it.
2/ Each attack blocked uses a chunk of stamina so the block only holds a few strikes.
3/ You can only move very slowly while blocking.

If someone blocks - you just throw light attacks until they stop blocking - easy.

Of course, if you just want to stun-lock-and-burst you're out of luck. This isn't WoW and Nightblades are not Rogues.

---

Remem your key in Settings>Control. Block works on all classes.

And Censorious because of this part of your post you are now Knighted in Tamriel and will receive an enchant which gives you eternally unlimited stamina :

"Of course, if you just want to stun-lock-and-burst you're out of luck..."

*Need to head to one of those other mmo's with the same-oh-same-oh mechanics.
There are plenty of those kind to choose from. Either you like variety or you feel better when you can do the same thing repetitively over and over and over. Difference in playstyle or err, something.

cjmarsh725b14_ESO

I don't see much wrong with blocking in general since it's only a damage mitigation and not a full damage resist. Personally I find people who just hold down block to be some of the easiest opponents to face.

Tintinabula wrote: »

Block does however stop chains dead.I had hoped it would only lower the chance of blocking a spell like that..nope..completely and utterly blocks chains.

My bf and i had a "difference of opinion" about that..I think your chances of blocking should not be 100% on a snag skill like that..he disagrees.

This on the other hand should really be looked at. Chains is a gap-closing ability, if in the other direction, and I don't think it should be completely stopped by blocking. I could understand it if the chance to block it was the same as the percentage of damage mitigation maybe, but a complete resist seems a bit too much.

Kililin

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Really, because I hear more crying about nerfing blocking overall than making blocking fall off while using a spell. That is what happens when spells are insta cast. You want this to stop, all spells will need a cast time. Everything will need a cast time. The things you can't use while blocking either have a cast time or are a targeted ground effect. This is not so much a problem with blocking as it is with a problem with insta cast skills where others are not insta cast. Not to mention some of them aren't blockable, as I mentioned. Block and heal with a dress, I know all about that. Templars know all about that too, meanwhile they call dragon blood Op.

I would so love if impulse, talons, mages fury, etc had a cast time on them too. I don't expect that to happen any time soon and "nerfing blocking" won't give the same effect.

And what is this about stamina builds. there are other threads for about how they suck compared to magica builds.

And cut it with the exceeds mental capacity crap. Overused line is overused.

What we can do, is just do like all the other copy/paste goobers and make staff/light armor builds with unblockable attacks because ZoS is going to take their sweet time changing any of this.

Shut up and get lost isnt too original either, dont you think?

In fact applying a very short casttime to everything might be interesting, but would need to be tested thoroughly. At least it would create slightly more interesting gameplay than RMB+11111, which at the moment is sufficient with the right build, at least in PVE.

Kiljaz

The reason you can block and continue to block during instant casts has to do with the animation canceling, for lack of better term, exploit. It has to do with the way the game prioritizes abilities.

Call me ignorant or whatever you want to if you disagree, I really don't care.

Fact of the matter is, blocking needs to be looked at. It is overpowered in a lot of situations.

Is it the only thing that needs looked at in this game? No, of course not.

This is still a very new game, and a lot of things are going to change as it ages and the developers get a better sense of how skill sets are being utilized, and how certain combination of abilities create an edge where not intended, or certain combinations are not as effective as intended.

Calling people stupid just because you disagree with their statements or opinions is a very juvenile attitude to take, and really not constructive.

Anyhow, this is what I see should be revised about blocking.

1. You should only be able to block things that come from a 145 degree frontal cone. Or if you'd like to make it more realistic, extend the cone out further on the side of the shield.

2. Blocking an ability should not damage the enemy blocked. This is minor, but really makes no sense. I could see it being a stamina drain for weapon attacks or a magical drain for spells, but damage just doesn't seem right. Once again, my opinion.

3. Reduce the amount of stamina it costs to block, and add a slight delay between being able to block abilities, like 1 second. This would drastically increase the skill required to use the ability effectively, instead of just holding down a mouse button.

Armitas

I play a DK, and while I don't use the cheese mode block and talons spam I do switch to a block and dot/instant cast spec when a melee comes on me. So long as I have stamina there is really nothing they can do. Their damage is being blocked, and my damage is going right through for full effect.

A weapon user in my group was asking me what he should do about this yesterday. I told him there is nothing he can do with a weapon. It's simple math, blocked damage will not beat out non blocked damage, especially in leather. You can block while using melee abilities, but you will run out of stamina and do no damage.

Weapons can work with a stealth build where you can stunlock to dead but against blockcasting? You are going to need a good set of non weapon abilities to do it which begs the question, why do I have this weapon in the first place?

I think the following change would be the quickest, least intrusive fix.
* Make a new bar called power. Value of power bar = ((Stamina + Magicka)/2) that fuels dodge, roll, block, sprint etc.

It also gives them another independent point for balancing/tweaking player actions. This also gives them room, should they wish, to deter spamming without adding a GCD or nerfing the skill itself. This can be done by tying the skill to the power bar such that when spammed consecutively it begins to exhaust your power bar as well.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Oh so I called you stupid somewhere huh. You never called me ignorant did you?

This just stopped being about stamina builds, again, and more about how you couldn't kill someone that was blocking. Proven by your using a staff in your build. Want to be able to wipe the floor with melee characters from a far, and trying to ensure their block has less ability to save them while you stun lock them with crystal shards. Or you want your zerg to be able to tear through the melees that cant do as much damage as you anyways? Im sure you do.

Blocking is fine as it is. In fact, blocking should use MORE stamina by default, and the heavy armor buff and 1h/sh buffs should reduce block cost more. Insert more cries and cover stories if you will.

You should also note that the skill is called "Brace" for a reason. Bracing for attacks isn't limited by direction.

Kililin

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Oh so I called you stupid somewhere huh. You never called me ignorant did you?

This just stopped being about stamina builds, again, and more about how you couldn't kill someone that was blocking. Proven by your using a staff in your build. Want to be able to wipe the floor with melee characters from a far, and trying to ensure their block has less ability to save them while you stun lock them with crystal shards. Or you want your zerg to be able to tear through the melees that cant do as much damage as you anyways? Im sure you do.

Blocking is fine as it is.

You most likely are answering the posts after mine, or yours would make even less sense, but you are referring to our discussion.
Its quite obvious you are not able to cope with this discussion.

My point was that it is more difficult for melee builds to block in a usefull way.
Way more difficult than for staff builds.
Thats why it is not fine.

alexj4596b14_ESO

I do understand, yesterday I'm in caster mode(originally tank) I was blocking and I felt like a tank tbh.

1 make blocking cone 180 degrees
2 reduce the amount of damage blocked by all non-sword and board while in pvp.


However on the flip side this will increase the amount of over all death in the pvp area.

Now I really feel like they should make taunts force players too attack the person that taunted. This would add a whole new mechic for tanks in pvp, this would add new team mechanics. But the duration needs too be short like 2.5 seconds.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

If this is a discussion, its one meant to be one sided so all the crybabies can cry un-hindered. Someone comes in and disagrees that block is bad, you call them ignorant. Don't try to say "the words you used weren't directed at me, but the words I used" because I take equal offense to it.

What this is is a crybaby thread. one of many. Us non-light armor non-staff builds are having a hard enough time in cyrodil as it is, and you pansy milk drinkers who wanna throw fireballs or streams of light at stuff want to make it even harder for them and easier for you. Your ideas will help kill off more melees in cyrodil, because even more people are not going to want to get close to anyone else because blocking got ***. No, just no.

Kiljaz

Demon, this is far from a crybaby thread in my opinion anyhow. This is a discussion of how the mechanics in the game may or may not be working as intended.

The majority of people I know, in game, believe block is not as it should be and needs revision. How it is to be revised or not revised, is still in question. Anyhow, discussions like this is the whole point of this forum.

So if you think block is just fine. Why don't you state some examples as to why it's fine, or why you believe it's fine. Instead of just insulting people.

As it stands, you look like a troll. Or someone who just likes to hold RMB.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Oh bring this majority of people to back you up. All I see are 3. Let me guess you got 5 guilds with 500 people each who all agree they hate that people can block, and everyone you discussed this with in cyrodil zone chat, as well as zone chats of every other zone also agree with you.

I have a majority of people who think blocking is weaker than it should be. All the people not wearing a dress or carrying a stick are on my side. We are all still waiting for the day blocking stops taking stamina so we can use our weaponskills, because we want to deal weapon damage. Hard to do that when our stamina and thus escapability is being drained through blocking and dodging. But lets try to cut the blockout out as much as possible, and try to sell it as feasible.

Nothing you have suggested is feasible, because you kill the meleer further with such crap suggestions.

Kiljaz

No they're actually not. If you noticed there' a DK above who disagrees with you. Personally, I'm not using a staff or a robe.

Fact of the matter is, you can block for longer than someone can damage in a 1v1 situation and still have a full mana bar to do damage with. The blocked party will never out damage the magical damage dealing stamina damage mitigating build.

In party situations, a magical damage dealing, stamina damage reducing build is virtually immortal.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

Shooting through block doesn't make sense. Specially because it goes in favor of magica builds coz of instant casts. Magic build are much stronger then stamina builds today - and shooting above block is one of main reasons . Besides that blocking 360 degrees is simply wrong and completely illogical.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

But now this is about magicka builds vs stamina builds again. back and forth back and forth...

demonlkojipub19_ESO

I already gave the speal about stopping blocking while casting. Cast times for everything. Even if that cast time is .5 seconds that means they are no longer blocking while using a spell or skill. Fixes everything.

But now, this as expected spun out into an all out block nerf crybaby thread by some crybabies who couldn't kill someone quickly because of block. "they block for too much" or "they blocked my sneak attack and now I cant stun lock them and make them waste even more stamina CC breaking" will follow next, even probably will next turn into taking away manual blocking and make it a % chance like other MMOs...

Cody

I saw a DK do something like this to solo a craglorn trial.:/ not very skilled imo. At least ZOS is taking notice of this stuff.

Armitas

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I already gave the speal about stopping blocking while casting. Cast times for everything. Even if that cast time is .5 seconds that means they are no longer blocking while using a spell or skill. Fixes everything.

But now, this as expected spun out into an all out block nerf crybaby thread by some crybabies who couldn't kill someone quickly because of block. "they block for too much" or "they blocked my sneak attack and now I cant stun lock them and make them waste even more stamina CC breaking" will follow next, even probably will next turn into taking away manual blocking and make it a % chance like other MMOs...

Um no, adding a cast time will not fix everything it will just create a new imbalance. Now you are arbitrarily giving all magicka abilities a cast time on top of their animation time and nerfing magic damage for all of PvE as well.

Not fixed. And please stop calling anyone who disagrees with you a cry baby.

c0rp

Holding block should DISABLE all actions and abilities as far as Im concerned. When i discovered that instants could be casted while blocking I was shocked, truthfully. Its even more hilarious when two players are fighting 1v1 at range and both are just strafing in a circle holding block the ENTIRE time. This really needs looked at imo.