So, Once Level 50 is Pretty Much Group Content, Will It Always Be this Way?

redwoodtreesprite

When I read the hype on this game, it sounded like there would be plenty for a casual soloer to do after doing the 1-49 content. Silly me, I even thought there would be some logic to going to the other two factions and questing. It sounded interesting.

But all I have read suggests that the vet questing is like being in an insanely hard instance with all elite mobs that can quickly kill you if you don't play very carefully. And with Craglorn, it doesn't sound any better.

So, is this it? Level 1-49 interesting questing, and then all hard mode?

With all the bots, it is hard to enjoy trying to gather resources and craft. In other MMOs, it is pleasant to run around the countryside gathering resources and then do some crafting for alts. Not here, as more often than not the bots have taken over almost everywhere I try to collect.

Storage is a big headache. I really don't want to play a game that is nothing more than trying to make enough gold to expand my available space. Which is what I fear will be the only thing left to do once I finished the 1-49 questing on my characters in the three zones.

So has anything been suggested for the future from this company other than hard group content?

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Please note that I am not asking for vet difficulty to be changed into easy mode. There are different types of players in MMOs, and they all deserve to have an enjoyable time playing. But it doesn't sound like this game has anything to offer past level 49 for more casual players. Instead it seems like a typical end game oriented MMO, with interesting solo/duo content up to a certain level to let you get your character to where he/she can handle the hard mode group content. And then after that, all group content.

crislevin

I do think they intend for you to group in the VR zones. But the grouping system is not good.

You can still solo VR zones, just avoid taking on mob of 3 until your ultimate is charged up, and don't ever bother with group of 4+ mobs without a partner.

yodased

In my personal opinion the vet levels are significantly longer to level that 1-49, but are not that much harder.

You can't just run in and take on 5 mobs at once, you have to make sure to take out healers and damage dealing threats first.

Crowd control, snares, stuns and knockdowns are your friend as well as movement resource management.

Don't be intimidated by the veteran propaganda being put out there. You may hate it for other reasons especially if you have already played all three factions to 50 however.

Slash8915

I soloed all of my vet content. Craglorn is another story.

Nox_Aeterna

Well , i played solo a templar up to the vr10 normal faction zone, while i agree , the dif does increase , it is not that high/absurd , there will be dif spikes , but with time you learn to deal with them.

Ofc , i used groups for anchors/(some) world bosses/the public GROUP dungeons...

But the things you are expected to do alone , like the quests/solo dungeons ... are usually quite doable.

Only weapon i consider a must for my templar is the healing staff , the other ones would not have mattered , actually it did not , i lvled in vet training all weapon sets , only one left is dual wielding then im all 50.

LariahHunding

The tactics in this thread will work. BUT, it turns into every a 3-mob encounter needs a WWW II Battle Strategy Session. It gets VERY tedious for the casual player. (maybe a lit hyperbole there )

What someone disingenuously call "veteran propaganda", is a very common dissatisfaction with the VR being neither fun or rewarding.

If you are a casual player, I would recommend playing the hell of 1-50 in all the the zones, and move on to the next game. However, give it a try, you may like it.

redwoodtreesprite

Thing is, me and my hubby have a hard time with some of the basic quest bosses in content below level 20. I don't think we will be able to handle those same bosses at vet level. And yodased, you confirmed what I fear. Right now, me and my hubby can't handle most groups of mobs that are more than three without almost dying at best. Especially if there are spell casters or ones that do elemental damage.

So past 49, one has to treat every combat as a hardmode instance special combat, using lots of crowd control and such? And even then you almost die from what I have been reading. That does not sound like any sort of fun to me.

Sigh.... Might be time to actually think about those sub cancellations. If we wait for half a year or so, the journey to level 49 might be more enjoyable, with the bots under control and all those early quests actually fixed so we can finish them. Then we can play our characters to level 49, taking our time on all of them, and hope that by the time we get them all to 49 there might be some actual new content that we can enjoy at level 50.

MKLS

redwoodtreesprite wrote: »

Thing is, me and my hubby have a hard time with some of the basic quest bosses in content below level 20. I don't think we will be able to handle those same bosses at vet level.

I'm not sure what level you are at the moment but if you are still low level then the game gets easier as you get more skills - so for me its good fun playing - just take your time and enjoy the journey.

Yes vet level has harder content - but by then you have found the best skills and spells to suit your play style so you'll be playing far more in sync with each other anyway.

joshisanonymous

You shouldn't be having any trouble at all handling level 20 content as a duo. That might sound like I'm describing a hopeless situation since you claim you do have trouble, but it's actually the opposite. It means you have an enormous amount of room for improvement. Almost any tactic offered to you is probably something you haven't been doing. Check out different build ideas. Look into skill trees that you didn't think about using before. Practice blocking, dodging, and interrupting. Learn what the mobs' telegraphs mean (the things they talked about during the tutorial that let you know how to react to an incoming attack). For the telegraphs, you can go into options and turn the hints back on so you'll literally have something popping up on your screen saying, "dodge now" and "interrupt now" with "press this or that button." Look at the names of the enemies in a group and what they're wearing to figure out which should go down 1st, 2nd, etc. Pick up crafting for your armor types or buy some crafted armor as it'll probably be quite a bit better than the drops you find.

With relatively decent armor and a moderately effective build, your duo should be able to practically stand in a group of 3 and basic attack them to death at level 20. If you were using all sorts of creative strategies and still having trouble, that would be difficult to improve on, but you're clearly not. You may actually be able to just stop doing anything that you're doing now and find that you're more successful. Again, I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to point out that there is an abundance of hope for you, and once you start figuring it out, the game will feel much more rewarding than the normal facerolling that exists in other MMOs.

redwoodtreesprite

Some bosses are insanely hard for us. Don't know if it is lag, NPCs not doing protective circles to stand in or something else. But that one evil mage that was responsible for the werewolf? He just kept one-shot killing us. Also kept cloning himself and becoming immune to damage while calling lots of trash mobs. We finally gave up on the fight and moved on to the next area.

Fighting him at vet levels would be insanely hard.

And groups of mages? More than 3, we die. Too many dots, too many damage dot circles on the ground to avoid. I have read other comments about this, so I know it is not just us.

yodased

I wasn't trying to be disingenuous, I honestly believe that there is alot of rhetoric and anti-veteran propaganda out there from people who really don't like the decision to use the other factions as post 50 gameplay.

Yes its harder and yes it requires more strategy than 1-49 but its not like its some impenetrable wall that is impossible to scale unless using specific builds/classes.

If you are enjoying the game from 1-50 why worry about veteran levels? Enjoy the game When you get to a point where you are stuck message me in game I will gladly help you!

redwoodtreesprite

yodased wrote: »

I wasn't trying to be disingenuous, I honestly believe that there is alot of rhetoric and anti-veteran propaganda out there from people who really don't like the decision to use the other factions as post 50 gameplay.

Yes its harder and yes it requires more strategy than 1-49 but its not like its some impenetrable wall that is impossible to scale unless using specific builds/classes.

If you are enjoying the game from 1-50 why worry about veteran levels? Enjoy the game When you get to a point where you are stuck message me in game I will gladly help you!

That is why I am thinking we should cancel our subs and wait half a year or so. Let them fix the bugs in the 1-49 quests, and get rid of most of the bots. That way we can enjoy the 1-49 levels.

someuser

Well from what it seems, and I honestly say this with no disrespect, @redwoodtreesprite sounds like if my mom or dad were playing the game (and I'm 36yrs)...

Believe it or not, some people do not naturally grasp many game mechanics that some gamers take for granted.

Obviously, any character that is properly geared, with semi-proper skills point investment, AND the mindset to use one's "specials moves" (as opposed to literally spamming the basic attack) is going to mow through sub 50 combat... You shouldn't even have to "block" "roll" "interrupt" with the exception of maybe some quest/world bosses...


However, I completely respect a very casual type of game play, and many times people like redwoodtreesprite tend to be the coolest gamers to talk to and interact with. I think what ESO needs to consider is giving casual game content and mini-game content geared towards people who are combat-adverse (oh yeah, look at me being PC).

redwoodtreesprite

LOL, I sound that old eh? Whips out cane. "You whipper snapper, I was playing rpgs back when Ultima IV was on the C64!" LOL, I really was too.

Yeah, I'm an old gal heading toward my mid 50's. My hubby does any jumping quests for my character too. I am learning how to block some, and can actually interrupt on occasion. Taking things slow and learning.

But for us, the monthly sub is a lot of money, money that might be better spent elsewhere till they finally start really fixing things and get this mmo out of paid beta.

Alphashado

What it really boils down to is that this game, especially VR zones, is not designed for a casual gamer. At all. And while hardcore gamers can thump their chest and flex their muscles and talk about how easy it is for them, all the casual gamers are going to leave. That means that ESO is going to lose more than half of its player base. I have been screaming this from a mountaintop ever since the first instant I set foot in a VR zone.

Just as an example. Ft Grimwatch in Reapers March. There is a mandatory quest there. The 3 pack mobs consist of 2 melee Fighters both swinging 2H swords and a mage. Both melee fighters will knock you down and hit for 750 damage if you don't block/dodge/roll away from them. Then when you get lucky enough to actually have tome to damage them, the mage is sitting in the back casting a fireball aoe that you must avoid or it instantly hits you for 1000 damage.

When exactly are you supposed to dps here? Its all cc and dodge. Now this fight isn't impossible, but it's ridiculously difficult for a TRASH MOB. One mistake and you are dead.

Casual gamers don't enjoy this. Hell I am getting sick of it even and I have been playing MMOs for 20 years. I don't want death defying experiences with every single trash mob I encounter.

It's really simple folks. If they don't give casual gamers something to do in this game it is going to go down and a ball of flames.

yodased

Yeah $30 a month to play something that you don't know if you are going to last in does seem counter productive.

Honestly I think you should check out a lot of the F2P games on the market. They are more your speed and you can try them as much as you want before commiting.

Tera,SWTOR,GW2,RoM etc. etc.

Just my .02 I would love to see you stay in ESO, but if you must go, go somewhere you can have fun!

redwoodtreesprite

yodased wrote: »

Yeah $30 a month to play something that you don't know if you are going to last in does seem counter productive.

Honestly I think you should check out a lot of the F2P games on the market. They are more your speed and you can try them as much as you want before commiting.

Tera,SWTOR,GW2,RoM etc. etc.

Just my .02 I would love to see you stay in ESO, but if you must go, go somewhere you can have fun!

Well, we have been playing EQ2 since they first started FtP there, been subbing ever since the first week of playing it. That game's devs really know how to do a balance of content. Lots for just about every type of player. Lifers in LOTRO, been playing that for 5 years, but sadly LOTRO is in the process of a slow death right now. Will likely play EQ2 more and let ESO be for a while. If ESO ends up going FtP, which would not surprise me at all now, then there will be no real money sink in playing it.

We did buy the Imperial Edition, and really like our characters. So will likely play ESO again later, IF we see things are improving, and the game becomes more casual friendly.

yodased

Well you will always have assistance from me, I am in game a lot. If you need help, and I am 100% serious, just hit me up.

redwoodtreesprite

yodased wrote: »

Well you will always have assistance from me, I am in game a lot. If you need help, and I am 100% serious, just hit me up.

Thanks! We both just cancelled our subs, have 3 days left to play for now. We will resub once I see from the forums here that the game has been fixed a lot and the bots are dealt with. Beautiful game. The designers did a fantastic job on that. It just feels unfinished right now...

I saved this thread on my computer, so I can refer to it later. And will let you know when we start playing again.

yodased

Well you won't be seeing this forums until you re-sub so that may be a tad difficult Just keep an eye on reddit for news

redwoodtreesprite

Hmm. I have been able to see them when not logged in. In any case, it will be easy to find out how the game is doing even if I can't see these forums later.

Lalai

The forums for the game aren't ever going to be positive. If that's what you're waiting for.. you're going to be waiting forever. The same goes for the forums of any game. Probably a much better idea to keep track of what the company releases content-wise, or patch-wise.

redwoodtreesprite

Forums are going to indicate about bot infestations and how players feel about things. There will always be players unhappy about class changes and such. But I have never agreed with those who feel that angry posters on forums are a small minority. In any case, we won't sub again until we can see that there have been enough fixes to the game to make it worthwhile.

gurluasb16_ESO

I have cancelled my sub because the game just...Stopped being fun as I died all the time. I don't want to do solo quests in a group.

neuroelectub17_ESO

FWIW, I've only grouped a few times in craig and that was to help peeps or buy stuff lol. I have 2x vr12's/ -> NB and a DK + vr4 and vr6. All my chars can solo nearly anything in craig, Including many of the boss's...

I really think there should be a guild dedicated to people that have "issues" killing stuff. This game really isn't that hard, you have 6 buttons to press per bar, read the tooltips "hope they're correct", adjust if they're not and game on...

From what I can tell the problem is people get stuck playing a specific build that frankly sucks. If peeps are unable to adjust their play style peeps are gonna keep gettin rolled...

@‌redwoodtreesprite
I highly recommend you visit other forums, the T-foundry forums are far more helpful and less filled with failbots running horrible builds and qq'ing nonstop for nerfs whilst having no clue about the classes abilities. -This game is actually great, don't get bogged down by the clueless peeps here... If you need a hand feel free to pm me.

Phantorang

It is NOT insanely hard, every class can solo Vet zones, im in 5 guilds with nearly 2000 active members, I have never heard of anyone that cant do Vet zone solo questing. And if anyone has had problems, they get help and guidance to make their character viable, so dont listen to anyone who tells you that you cant solo vet content.

If need be, I can help you!

Anastasia

joshisanonymous wrote: »

You shouldn't be having any trouble at all handling level 20 content as a duo. That might sound like I'm describing a hopeless situation since you claim you do have trouble, but it's actually the opposite. It means you have an enormous amount of room for improvement. Almost any tactic offered to you is probably something you haven't been doing. Check out different build ideas. Look into skill trees that you didn't think about using before. Practice blocking, dodging, and interrupting. Learn what the mobs' telegraphs mean (the things they talked about during the tutorial that let you know how to react to an incoming attack). For the telegraphs, you can go into options and turn the hints back on so you'll literally have something popping up on your screen saying, "dodge now" and "interrupt now" with "press this or that button." Look at the names of the enemies in a group and what they're wearing to figure out which should go down 1st, 2nd, etc. Pick up crafting for your armor types or buy some crafted armor as it'll probably be quite a bit better than the drops you find.

With relatively decent armor and a moderately effective build, your duo should be able to practically stand in a group of 3 and basic attack them to death at level 20. If you were using all sorts of creative strategies and still having trouble, that would be difficult to improve on, but you're clearly not. You may actually be able to just stop doing anything that you're doing now and find that you're more successful. Again, I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to point out that there is an abundance of hope for you, and once you start figuring it out, the game will feel much more rewarding than the normal facerolling that exists in other MMOs.

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What a great post josh - really helpful to some I bet.

Just underscoring here - don't be 'worried' about what you read is 'coming'. Take the tips and practice them now; by the time you two get to 50+ you will be a dynamic duo ;o).

***** IF newer players/lower level players were practicing and learning WHEN to use their blocking, dodging, and interrupting, it would be second nature to them by the time they hit 50+ content.

We've been being helped by veteran Beta players recommending this since pre launch, its mentioned over and over in many posts in these forums, and in the chats ingame. Unfortunately one still hears people at all levels saying things like, "Aw don't have no time for that shizz, I'ma do my skills - that blocking, dodging, interrupting just SLOWS ME DOWN" or other really asinine comments.

If you stand and watch at any level really -- though this is anecdotal, just how many other players do you see using their block, interrupt or dodge? It doesn't matter much that you may not 'need' to block, interrupt or dodge against mobbies at level 11, 23 or 40. It matters that you are building reaction knowledge, that you are creating muscle memory and paying attention to detail in how the mobs you are fighting 'show' what they are about to do or are doing to you at any given moment.

Just like the stats increases you get in 50+ seem minimal, or very incremental, this whole game wants you to grab a little more of this and a little more of that, making a big ole 5 million-piece puzzle to create your own successful mural of war in Tamriel. Its just NOT any one thing - more armor, more resists, more damage, more potions, more stat food ... its the accumulation of a taste here, plus a tad there until your character is lean and hard with this multitude of varying knowledge, and additional skills.