DPS After Patch 1.13 By Class:

Nuitar

Prior to the DPS, it's worth saying that I am a nightblade. I am very familiar with popular DK/sorc builds, but unfortunately do not run into enough templar DPS to understand their rotation.

These are average values obtained from samples of about 5 people each. The p value is not strong with this data. However, it gives us a birds eye view.

NightBlade:
Stamina-based: 600
Magicka-based:800

*Veil is a very important ult for the final boss of both AA and HR. Top trials groups in EU are working in 2-3 NightBlades to keep veil in rotation on the boss for AoE cycles.

*NB have the highest DPS execute in the game. Paired with veil, and they rival/beat sorcs for 25%<.

Sorc:
Magicka-based:1200

*Storm atronach is what gives sorcs the highest DPS in the game at the moment at adding another ~300, but the rotation / build still eludes many

DK:
Magicka-based:1000

*Ult gen was a huge nerf to DKs, yet they still reign supreme in AoE packs due to class passives synergizing with Impulse spam

Templar:
Magicka-based:800

*Generally 1-2 required per raid for healing ult



Let me add, these are very average numbers. Top sorcs I have seen pull 1500+. On most bosses my Nightmage pulls 1k+, and 1500+ during execute phase.

Shaun98ca2

You left out Stamina based DPS for the other 3 classes.

Comaetilico

mmm most NB I know that are use to run trials sit around 900+ on magika based spec... that 800 as avarage sound a little low

for sorc I myself sit at 1100... I can probably improve that a bit so i can see that number as truthsworty

DK dps... mmm I had to ask my dk dps to check it... I find it quite hard to belive their dps dropped that much.. while I understand how significant the standard spam was for their dps it seem a little too much

for temp dps... I actualy never find a good one... all my templar friend are either tank or healer... it doesn't seem to be a class that will atract many dps oriented player ^^' can you give some info on the builds used for those tests?

Nuitar

Hey Coma - tbh, don't know the specs, just have seen the FTC DPS post in group chat.

I agree NBs can be a bit higher, but it is a very aggressive rotation with all top tier gear (v12 legs, leg runes). The best I can pull is about 1050 and that is with spell crit pots.

I am still trying to find a way to spam veil after the patch. I think I have found a build utilizing the avakiri dragonguard set which maintains veil and does not lose any dps. Great for the final bosses.

Comaetilico

Nuitar wrote: »

I agree NBs can be a bit higher, but it is a very aggressive rotation with all top tier gear (v12 legs, leg runes). The best I can pull is about 1050 and that is with spell crit pots.

well that's the same for sorc ^^ my spec is quite agressive too (I only get some healing return during execution phase but most of the fight I only take additional damage from equilibrium and nothing back ^^')

sorc is probably a little ahead in dps... but that is most likely due to ultimates... sorc dps use atronach... that is quite the dps boost... on the other hand NB dps use vail of blade... that is a dps boost too... but more than that is a great group utility (30% damage reduction for the group + additional 30% for yourself... much better than just one fake target ^^') now that ultimate generation ha been reduced I can see more nightblade being requested for safe run... having vail of blade up most of the time is something you want to run without too many incovenients... for fast run the little bit of additional dps of sorc may still make them favored... but personaly I should not run without at least an NB... that 30% less damage means a lot for healer... and it can make the difference between the need for a third healer or not...

Wifeaggro13

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

You left out Stamina based DPS for the other 3 classes.

thats because the rest of the classes in stam builds cant crack 500 ST sustained NB has highest Stam build DPS but its still ***

Comaetilico

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

You left out Stamina based DPS for the other 3 classes.

thats because the rest of the classes in stam builds cant crack 500 ST sustained NB has highest Stam build DPS but its still ***

good forsake!!!!

you should know that NB is the worst class in the game!!!!

you should know that NB WEAPON BASED char are the worst char in the game... when compared with MAGIKA BASED builds...


/irony off...

as many other have repetdly stated in lot of the NB cry tread... the problem is not NB by itself... but it is weapon based build (and by reflex stamina based build that are obviously based on weapon lines skill since those are the only lines that make use of stamina for offensive)... NB is probably the class with the best synergy toward weapon abilities... and the fact that most NB player see it as the "melee class" compared to the "mage class" the sorc and the "healer class" the templar... make it so that most NB think their class sux... but in realty what is bad is actualy the weapon/stamina build... and they never compare it with other classes stamina/weapon builds simply because other classes are not as favored by weapon/stamina players...

in the end, the day they will fix stamina/weapon based build NB will probably shine a lot more than what it actualy do (and note that as shown in previous reply NB is already fully functional as a caster like any other class in this game... little less dps for much more group utility is not a bad thing!!!) since they alrady are the best weapon user... yes... being the BEST of the WROST is not really something to be happy about... but it still show how not broked the CLASS is... and that what make the build broken is rather the weapon/stamina concept ^^'

Thejollygreenone

Comaetilico wrote: »

...but it still show how not broked the CLASS is...

I would disagree here. The CLASS is broken, because many of it's ABILITIES aren't working properly or are designed badly making them useless (we're all looking at you, agony. And haste w/ bows.) If that isn't broken then I really don't know what your concept of broken entails.

NB is broken like templar is broken. Fix their broken and useless abilities then we'll talk about if a class needs change because it's not pulling enough dps.

EDIT: However I would like to add that I do agree with you, stamina builds are a huge part of the problem, but broken NB abilities are where the claims are coming from.

Thejollygreenone

I would also like to add as a side note, many damage meters I've used count the health loss from equilibrium and its morphs into your dps. If the dps numbers from casters in this thread are using this ability, as many are with spell symmetry, then numbers could be skewed.

Is this accounted for, or does it now need to be deducted for more accurate numbers? This may account for some of the vast disparity we see between stamina and magicka builds.

Axer

Imo you must have met very crap DKs and insanely liar Sorcs then.

Sorcs simply can NEVER do that kind of single target dps. Never. Not even once. Post any screenshot or video proof.

DKs have plenty up. One right below this post showing 1.1k, without a non optimal rotation/potion use.

I'd put the numbers like this (and I lead a guild of many highly skilled players, tho we have very few NBs):

Sorc:
800 average for a top geared/skill players. Best of the best outliers can manage 900.

950+ is only possibly against large targets using multi hit mines. Can probably do 1k on the big storm atronach in archives, but not any real boss (hes just a warm up).

DK:
1.1k average
1.4k is possible with ulti opening, flawless skill rotation and some luck

NB:
I'd have to take your word. We don't have enough top geared/skilled dps NBs. Every one that tried out for the guild simply couldn't even kill a storm atronach. The few I let in anyways, were healers.

Templar:
700. Just spam spears in legendary light armor with good set bonuses. Easy to do, but riskier then sorcs/dks doing it (sorcs have range, DKs have magma armor).

800+ is the outlier, requires a 100% crit build and a relatively low target time battle, which is rare for templars. Most go for more cost deductions as they are generally expected to heal some, and cost deductions are better for heals.

Plus templar DPS dies FAST, a single missed spear kills it, and with the hardest dps check (wisp boss) requiring a lot of movement while DPS'ing, means that even the best players will very much struggle to pass 600 dps on that particular fight. (And 600 is about the BARE minimum to complete that with standard strategies)

(vs dks who are heavily DoT based, so some missed attacks aren't too detrimental, and sorcs who have long enough range to be constantly attacking from a safe distance)

Andy22

Axer wrote: »

NB:
I'd have to take your word. We don't have enough top geared/skilled dps NBs. Every one that tried out for the guild simply couldn't even kill a storm atronach. The few I let in anyways, were healers.

We should all keep in mind that all those 600+ NB/Sorc DPS values are heavily influenced by the execution phase. If u pop a weapon crit potion and can Impale for a "good" amount of time your Impale DPS will get u from 600 to 800. If the impale phase is very short, many sorc's/NB in the raid, your DPS may only get to 650.

The best i can manage as NB at Sinmur over 1-3 minutes is 500-550 DPS without using Ultimate and crit potions, while a DK/Sorc has around 650-800 DPS doing the exact same thing.

So 550 DPS * 8% Combat Prayer = 600 DPS + 90-125 DPS from Ultimate after crit nerf = 690-725 DPS + ?? Impale DPS.

So 600-900 DPS is possible as NB DPS, but largely depends on Ultimate generation/placement and Impale phase duration.

crislevin

enlighten me a sorc rotation that does 1200 dps, or 800 dps w/o ulti in 1-3 minutes.

I run combat prayer->shard->curse->shard->curse, my shard has paper damage of 660 after prayer, I have 2k magicka. and best dps I can manage is 550, most time lower since i have to move and not casting all the time.

What am I missing?

Comaetilico

crislevin wrote: »

enlighten me a sorc rotation that does 1200 dps, or 800 dps w/o ulti in 1-3 minutes.

I run combat prayer->shard->curse->shard->curse, my shard has paper damage of 660 after prayer, I have 2k magicka. and best dps I can manage is 550, most time lower since i have to move and not casting all the time.

What am I missing?

1) how much spellpower? you should have more than 130...
2) how much spell crit? you should be around 50%
3) use caltrops instead of combat prayer... or matriarch if you don't have caltrops... combat prayer is not as good as you think if you have to cast it yourself...

crislevin

Comaetilico wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

enlighten me a sorc rotation that does 1200 dps, or 800 dps w/o ulti in 1-3 minutes.

I run combat prayer->shard->curse->shard->curse, my shard has paper damage of 660 after prayer, I have 2k magicka. and best dps I can manage is 550, most time lower since i have to move and not casting all the time.

What am I missing?

1) how much spellpower? you should have more than 130...
2) how much spell crit? you should be around 50%
3) use caltrops instead of combat prayer... or matriarch if you don't have caltrops... combat prayer is not as good as you think if you have to cast it yourself...

I am at V6, 96 spell power, how do you get to 130 spell power?

Matriarch for magicka regen?

My crit is only 30%, pretty much vanilla robe+inner light, I can craft +crit staff, which can increase the number by about 6-8. I can't yet craft willow path set.

what would be common rotation dealing with mobs of 3-6 members?

edit, I have yet to unlock caltrops.

Thanks!

Nuitar

Just pointing out - NBs ult 'veil of blades' does 275-350 DPS and offers 30% mitigation to the group.

Keeping it up and doing about 650 with my normal rotation +caltrops, I generally hover around 1k on most bosses.

Thejollygreenone

Nuitar wrote: »

Just pointing out - NBs ult 'veil of blades' does 275-350 DPS and offers 30% mitigation to the group.

Keeping it up and doing about 650 with my normal rotation +caltrops, I generally hover around 1k on most bosses.

build? if it's light armor and resto staff as i imagine it will be i'ma be mighty disappointed. regardless, sustaining 1k dps is damn good for a NB.

doesn't mean i'm going to switch from my inefficient stamina build :-/

Nuitar

Its light armor resto staff, of course. Stamina build can still do around 600, but the uptime of the ult is significantly lower.

Comaetilico

crislevin wrote: »

Comaetilico wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

enlighten me a sorc rotation that does 1200 dps, or 800 dps w/o ulti in 1-3 minutes.

I run combat prayer->shard->curse->shard->curse, my shard has paper damage of 660 after prayer, I have 2k magicka. and best dps I can manage is 550, most time lower since i have to move and not casting all the time.

What am I missing?

1) how much spellpower? you should have more than 130...
2) how much spell crit? you should be around 50%
3) use caltrops instead of combat prayer... or matriarch if you don't have caltrops... combat prayer is not as good as you think if you have to cast it yourself...

I am at V6, 96 spell power, how do you get to 130 spell power?

Matriarch for magicka regen?

My crit is only 30%, pretty much vanilla robe+inner light, I can craft +crit staff, which can increase the number by about 6-8. I can't yet craft willow path set.

what would be common rotation dealing with mobs of 3-6 members?

edit, I have yet to unlock caltrops.

Thanks!

1) jewels with enchant for spellpower (vr10+ gold enchant are 12 spellpower each... add PvP buff to that and you'll be over 130 with easy...)
2) if you can't craft it yourself ask someone to craft it for you... if you got the mats it's not that expensive... also always use a precise staff... there is no other trait that increase you dps as that ^^
3) matriarch for dps ^^ (the one with regen is a little better than the other but the use is just dps... the regen is an added benefit...) AoE intensive fight will make it a little harder to be used (that is why I give caltrops as first option even if their dps is slightly lower than matriarch.... but they'r much more reliable)

that is for single target... for AoE... as a sorc you get the easier life in the game (probably only DK have life as easy as us...)

1) pop critical surge
2) pop volcanic rune under the most mob you can cover
3) run to them and hit 1 impulse before rune goes off
4) spam impulse... if you can get the timing wave lightning splash in
5) always remember to hold block while spamming impulse

with this I usualy get out of a 6+ enemy group at 50%+ magika (thx to destro staff passive that gives back 250 magika for each kill with a destro staff ability) and full health (thx to crit surge and my 50% crit rate)

if the enemy is undead/daedra you can put evil hunter in... that way you will also have endless stamina and so endless block ^^' (and most likely save quite a bit of magika... when I farmed the VR9 public dungeon at eastmarch for gliph to deconstruct I always ended up at full health, magika and stamina after every group... ^^')

Andy22

Nuitar wrote: »

Just pointing out - NBs ult 'veil of blades' does 275-350 DPS and offers 30% mitigation to the group.

Keeping it up and doing about 650 with my normal rotation +caltrops, I generally hover around 1k on most bosses.

How do u keep veil up 100% of the time?
I mean your "hover around 1k" and "about 650" indicates that your veil must be up 100% of the time, so i just wonder how u do this on a single target trial boss?

So if u don't mind can u plz also upload a small how-to video on how to achieve this, just use v10 quest gaint "Sinmur" as demonstration, using your usual trials setup?

Artemiisia

if we take the pvp aspect damage yeah sure it counts, but any good nightblade can take down a sorcerer off quard in 2-3 secs and that with 2500 hp

thats when as you stated nighblades have less damage then sorcerer.

not bitching about it, I like the challenge, and fear the nightblade 1 vs 1

play the role good and you will succeed, and live with the deaths

SexyVette07

Axer wrote: »

Imo you must have met very crap DKs and insanely liar Sorcs then.

Sorcs simply can NEVER do that kind of single target dps. Never. Not even once. Post any screenshot or video proof.

DKs have plenty up. One right below this post showing 1.1k, without a non optimal rotation/potion use.

I'd put the numbers like this (and I lead a guild of many highly skilled players, tho we have very few NBs):

Sorc:
800 average for a top geared/skill players. Best of the best outliers can manage 900.

950+ is only possibly against large targets using multi hit mines. Can probably do 1k on the big storm atronach in archives, but not any real boss (hes just a warm up).

DK:
1.1k average
1.4k is possible with ulti opening, flawless skill rotation and some luck

NB:
I'd have to take your word. We don't have enough top geared/skilled dps NBs. Every one that tried out for the guild simply couldn't even kill a storm atronach. The few I let in anyways, were healers.

Templar:
700. Just spam spears in legendary light armor with good set bonuses. Easy to do, but riskier then sorcs/dks doing it (sorcs have range, DKs have magma armor).

800+ is the outlier, requires a 100% crit build and a relatively low target time battle, which is rare for templars. Most go for more cost deductions as they are generally expected to heal some, and cost deductions are better for heals.

Plus templar DPS dies FAST, a single missed spear kills it, and with the hardest dps check (wisp boss) requiring a lot of movement while DPS'ing, means that even the best players will very much struggle to pass 600 dps on that particular fight. (And 600 is about the BARE minimum to complete that with standard strategies)

(vs dks who are heavily DoT based, so some missed attacks aren't too detrimental, and sorcs who have long enough range to be constantly attacking from a safe distance)

These numbers for Sorcerers are correct. The OP is absolutely wrong except for the few rare cases when Sorcerers can stay in melee range and hit the boss with Daedric Minefield. Sorcerer dps is consistently in the 800-950 range. 1k is pretty much unattainable without Daedric Minefield.

Ygaer

I'm a sorc who's been at the trial grind for a while now and I pretty much agree. I will say that 1k is attainable in rare cases, especially on the wispmother with evil hunter with a really good rotation. But for the most part, without mines, I'm in the 8-950 range.