Sneak System / Invisibility

BSGDevastator

I just wanted to ask when they're taking on this major and gamebreaking problem.
Sneak not working correctly, too long in combat, Invisibility nonexistent sometimes.

Can someone inbox me on the day they're releasing the patch with the fix for the sneak system? That will be the day I'll start playing again. Thanks.

Ser Lobo

A veteran rank vampire nightblade. Gotcha.

First, how is sneak not working correctly. I've actually had no problems with the basic stealth mechanics of this game, so I'm confused on what issues you might be having.

Secondly, what's happening with 'invisibility'. Are we talking the potions, the vampire mist form, or the nightblade shadow cloak?

If you are referencing shadow cloak, please understand that there are known issues with it, particularly an annoying one where if you have damage-over-time ticks applied to an enemy (which many nightblade skills do), you will get broken out of cloak, because technically you are still doing damage to the enemy. This is one they recognize and is on their list to fix, and players are encouraged to not use DOT attacks and attempt to cloak until that fix occurs.

BSGDevastator

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

A veteran rank vampire nightblade. Gotcha.

First, how is sneak not working correctly. I've actually had no problems with the basic stealth mechanics of this game, so I'm confused on what issues you might be having.

Secondly, what's happening with 'invisibility'. Are we talking the potions, the vampire mist form, or the nightblade shadow cloak?

If you are referencing shadow cloak, please understand that there are known issues with it, particularly an annoying one where if you have damage-over-time ticks applied to an enemy (which many nightblade skills do), you will get broken out of cloak, because technically you are still doing damage to the enemy. This is one they recognize and is on their list to fix, and players are encouraged to not use DOT attacks and attempt to cloak until that fix occurs.

Things that are annoying about sneaking:

-Mage NPCs on Castles in Cyrodiil can spot you half a mile away. Why?
-Sometimes if you engage in a small skirmish you can't go invisible for about 2min
-Why am I, as a NB Vampire with full Medium Armor, as easy to spot as a DK with full Heavy Armor?

Shadow Cloak:

-Invisibility always breaks in the most crucial moments where you want to sneak past a few enemies. *)
-Trying to escape from NPCs by using Shadow Cloak constantly until you're behind an obstacle to hide is impossible. They always exactly know where you are although that shouldn't be possible

*) I did NOT attack anyone and I did NOT get attacked while invisible. It wasn't due to a Potion nor Magelight. If it was a Potion I would've still stayed in the black-red invisibility form, but would've still been attacked. It just BROKE. 0.2sec and Shadow Cloak stopped working.

I pulverized my whole magicka in 1 second trying to get past a group of enemies. Of course, as soon as it stopped, everyone noticed me and killed me instantly, due to the first problem I've mentioned. I have attacked and killed someone about a minute prior to this event, so sneaking did obviously not work, what ultimatively got me killed.

From these points I've called, the inability to enter sneak for a few minutes is the absolutely worst. I'm using an AddOn which shows me when I enter or leave combat and I usually don't leave combat after minutes of killing someone.

You should enter combat when you deal the first hit / when you got hit and leave it 10 seconds after the last damage has been dealt.

Blackwidow

BSGDevastator wrote: »

-Mage NPCs on Castles in Cyrodiil can spot you half a mile away. Why?

Magelight, maybe?

-Sometimes if you engage in a small skirmish you can't go invisible for about 2min

Did not notice this, but if so, needs to be fixed.

-Why am I, as a NB Vampire with full Medium Armor, as easy to spot as a DK with full Heavy Armor?

Because ESO makes no sense with armor and sneaking. To be fair, even TES is a little wacky with how easy it is to sneak in full plate.

I know there is a passive that helps with sneaking on medium. Are you saying it does not work?

Shadow Cloak:

Can't help ya, sorry.

BSGDevastator

Blackwidow wrote: »

Magelight, maybe?

That must be a big light then if they can spot me half a mile away. It's not the players. It's the Mage NPCs sitting on the corners of each castle. Really, their Range on spotting sneaking targets is way too high imo.

Blackwidow wrote: »

Because ESO makes no sense with armor and sneaking. To be fair, even TES is a little wacky with how easy it is to sneak in full plate.

I know there is a passive that helps with sneaking on medium. Are you saying it does not work?

It seems not to work atleast. I don't know the exact numbers, but let's assume my detection range is 30% smaller. That means I should be able to see the enemy before he sees me (as long as he's not using the same passives), right?

However, although I'm very careful while sneaking, we still spot each other at the exactly same time. But w/e that's not the main problem. I'd rather see a slight "sneak nerf" to heavy armor - wearers.

Blackwidow wrote: »

Can't help ya, sorry.

What do you mean by that?

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

I don't comorehend sneaking also.

I have sorc and if I see someone going stealth and I run to their possition it is near to impossible to get them out of stealth. Me on the other hand... I go stealth and enemy finds me from a long distance and they are not even using mage light. So I do not understand the system.

BSGDevastator

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't comorehend sneaking also.

I have sorc and if I see someone going stealth and I run to their possition it is near to impossible to get them out of stealth. Me on the other hand... I go stealth and enemy finds me from a long distance and they are not even using mage light. So I do not understand the system.

It would be great if there was a ToolTip somewhere telling you how big your detection radius is (in meters, for example).

Right now, I have no idea if the detection radius is working like it should. There's no real evidence for me.

Slantasiam

pehaps those mages are using a enhance smell spell and smell you from a mile away..l2shower

BSGDevastator

Slantasiam wrote: »

pehaps those mages are using a enhance smell spell and smell you from a mile away..l2shower

I'm using Axe Africa on my NB. That should give me a 80% Smell Reduction. Don't tell me that doesn't work either.

Blackwidow

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Can't help ya, sorry.

What do you mean by that?

I mean the help that you need on that subject can not come from me.

I don't know enough to comment or give advice on that topic.

I'm ignorant in that category.

I'm useless to you in this arena.

I know bupkis about that information.

Can't squeeze blood from a stone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzqTElpbOJQ

BSGDevastator

Blackwidow wrote: »

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Can't help ya, sorry.

What do you mean by that?

I mean the help that you need on that subject can not come from me.

Thank you, I got it there. No need to act as if I'm stupid. Since I can neither hear your voice nor see your gesture while telling me this, I had to assume that it was some sarcastic comment.

Blackwidow

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Can't help ya, sorry.

What do you mean by that?

I mean the help that you need on that subject can not come from me.

Thank you, I got it there. No need to act as if I'm stupid. Since I can neither hear your voice nor see your gesture while telling me this, I had to assume that it was some sarcastic comment.

I was actually making fun of myself. Was not trying to offend you.

BSGDevastator

Blackwidow wrote: »

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Can't help ya, sorry.

What do you mean by that?

I mean the help that you need on that subject can not come from me.

Thank you, I got it there. No need to act as if I'm stupid. Since I can neither hear your voice nor see your gesture while telling me this, I had to assume that it was some sarcastic comment.

I was actually making fun of myself. Was not trying to offend you.

No offense taken.

Birfreben_Kinghelred

BSGDevastator wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

A veteran rank vampire nightblade. Gotcha.

First, how is sneak not working correctly. I've actually had no problems with the basic stealth mechanics of this game, so I'm confused on what issues you might be having.

Secondly, what's happening with 'invisibility'. Are we talking the potions, the vampire mist form, or the nightblade shadow cloak?

If you are referencing shadow cloak, please understand that there are known issues with it, particularly an annoying one where if you have damage-over-time ticks applied to an enemy (which many nightblade skills do), you will get broken out of cloak, because technically you are still doing damage to the enemy. This is one they recognize and is on their list to fix, and players are encouraged to not use DOT attacks and attempt to cloak until that fix occurs.

Things that are annoying about sneaking:

-Mage NPCs on Castles in Cyrodiil can spot you half a mile away. Why?

So players have to leave the keep after it has been capped by another faction. Otherwise you could have a small party inside and recap it w/o taking out the outer wall, after the zerg moves on.

-Sometimes if you engage in a small skirmish you can't go invisible for about 2min

This happens when players tab-target you, it was fixed recently/range was shortened. It means Some1 is nearby and still has you tab targeted, which means they see the big white box around you and can detect you.

-Why am I, as a NB Vampire with full Medium Armor, as easy to spot as a DK with full Heavy Armor?

You aren't, as soon as I equip anything but 7/7 medium armour I die a couple times in cyrodiil relearning the stealth radius of the new armour. Try it. Also, the detection radius Isn't completely circular. You have increased detection in the direction your character is facing. Meaning a heavy armoured player that detects you first is facing you, while your looking away.

Shadow Cloak:

-Invisibility always breaks in the most crucial moments where you want to sneak past a few enemies. *)
-Trying to escape from NPCs by using Shadow Cloak constantly until you're behind an obstacle to hide is impossible. They always exactly know where you are although that shouldn't be possible

Yeah, you have to get out of their "tether range" if you want to deaggro them. If they added full LOS the npc could reset while your trying to fight it, it'd just make it worse.

*) I did NOT attack anyone and I did NOT get attacked while invisible. It wasn't due to a Potion nor Magelight. If it was a Potion I would've still stayed in the black-red invisibility form, but would've still been attacked. It just BROKE. 0.2sec and Shadow Cloak stopped working.

I pulverized my whole magicka in 1 second trying to get past a group of enemies. Of course, as soon as it stopped, everyone noticed me and killed me instantly, due to the first problem I've mentioned. I have attacked and killed someone about a minute prior to this event, so sneaking did obviously not work, what ultimatively got me killed.

It sounds like someone had you tab-targeted and was following you. Most likely when you tried to sneak through the group he attacked you to reveal you to other players. Was this after 1.1.2?


From these points I've called, the inability to enter sneak for a few minutes is the absolutely worst. I'm using an AddOn which shows me when I enter or leave combat and I usually don't leave combat after minutes of killing someone.

You should enter combat when you deal the first hit / when you got hit and leave it 10 seconds after the last damage has been dealt.

I find that the nightblade dark cloak can be upset by lag very easily. I play on two different internet connections, one very fast, and one slow. I find that when I'm on my fast connection I can use dark cloak to dodge projectiles/completely cancel crystal shards channelling, I've even used it to sidestep shield charge a few times. When I'm on my slow connection I have issues with basic projectiles, probably has something to do with the server not recognizing your invisible while being attacked, confirming a hit, then breaking invis shortly after you enter it.

I've also heard there could be an addon/hack that shows sneaking enemy players on your map. And have experienced some odd behaviour myself.

darkopale

Sneaky warrior in heavy armor with 2 handed weapon on the grass in plain sight FOR FREE go go go !!! THX TESO

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

Sorry about my pehaps dumb question, but what do you mean by tab target?
Do you mean to target locked nearest opponent like it is in WoW? I hope it is not the case as I though targerting in ESO is done only by pointing crosshair on direction you want to target.

Thank you.

BSGDevastator

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry about my pehaps dumb question, but what do you mean by tab target?
Do you mean to target locked nearest opponent like it is in WoW? I hope it is not the case as I though targerting in ESO is done only by pointing crosshair on direction you want to target.

Thank you.

While your cursor is on the enemy you can use the TAB-Key to lock onto him.

bothnutz wrote: »

BSGDevastator wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

A veteran rank vampire nightblade. Gotcha.

First, how is sneak not working correctly. I've actually had no problems with the basic stealth mechanics of this game, so I'm confused on what issues you might be having.

Secondly, what's happening with 'invisibility'. Are we talking the potions, the vampire mist form, or the nightblade shadow cloak?

If you are referencing shadow cloak, please understand that there are known issues with it, particularly an annoying one where if you have damage-over-time ticks applied to an enemy (which many nightblade skills do), you will get broken out of cloak, because technically you are still doing damage to the enemy. This is one they recognize and is on their list to fix, and players are encouraged to not use DOT attacks and attempt to cloak until that fix occurs.

Things that are annoying about sneaking:

-Mage NPCs on Castles in Cyrodiil can spot you half a mile away. Why?

So players have to leave the keep after it has been capped by another faction. Otherwise you could have a small party inside and recap it w/o taking out the outer wall, after the zerg moves on.

-Sometimes if you engage in a small skirmish you can't go invisible for about 2min

This happens when players tab-target you, it was fixed recently/range was shortened. It means Some1 is nearby and still has you tab targeted, which means they see the big white box around you and can detect you.

-Why am I, as a NB Vampire with full Medium Armor, as easy to spot as a DK with full Heavy Armor?

You aren't, as soon as I equip anything but 7/7 medium armour I die a couple times in cyrodiil relearning the stealth radius of the new armour. Try it. Also, the detection radius Isn't completely circular. You have increased detection in the direction your character is facing. Meaning a heavy armoured player that detects you first is facing you, while your looking away.

Shadow Cloak:

-Invisibility always breaks in the most crucial moments where you want to sneak past a few enemies. *)
-Trying to escape from NPCs by using Shadow Cloak constantly until you're behind an obstacle to hide is impossible. They always exactly know where you are although that shouldn't be possible

Yeah, you have to get out of their "tether range" if you want to deaggro them. If they added full LOS the npc could reset while your trying to fight it, it'd just make it worse.

*) I did NOT attack anyone and I did NOT get attacked while invisible. It wasn't due to a Potion nor Magelight. If it was a Potion I would've still stayed in the black-red invisibility form, but would've still been attacked. It just BROKE. 0.2sec and Shadow Cloak stopped working.

I pulverized my whole magicka in 1 second trying to get past a group of enemies. Of course, as soon as it stopped, everyone noticed me and killed me instantly, due to the first problem I've mentioned. I have attacked and killed someone about a minute prior to this event, so sneaking did obviously not work, what ultimatively got me killed.

It sounds like someone had you tab-targeted and was following you. Most likely when you tried to sneak through the group he attacked you to reveal you to other players. Was this after 1.1.2?


From these points I've called, the inability to enter sneak for a few minutes is the absolutely worst. I'm using an AddOn which shows me when I enter or leave combat and I usually don't leave combat after minutes of killing someone.

You should enter combat when you deal the first hit / when you got hit and leave it 10 seconds after the last damage has been dealt.

I find that the nightblade dark cloak can be upset by lag very easily. I play on two different internet connections, one very fast, and one slow. I find that when I'm on my fast connection I can use dark cloak to dodge projectiles/completely cancel crystal shards channelling, I've even used it to sidestep shield charge a few times. When I'm on my slow connection I have issues with basic projectiles, probably has something to do with the server not recognizing your invisible while being attacked, confirming a hit, then breaking invis shortly after you enter it.

I've also heard there could be an addon/hack that shows sneaking enemy players on your map. And have experienced some odd behaviour myself.

Thank you for the valuable information. These things all occured yesterday evening. Tab locking should only last for around 5-10seconds. After that you should have to lock it again. Lag might be a major problem too. My latency varies from 23ms to 500ms, but is usually around 90ms.

Worstluck

So wait, this is what has been happening to me? After healing for most of my pvp career, I recently started going stealthy Nightblade, and I am constantly in combat, so annoying.

So someone can tab-target me while I am stealthed, if they happen to catch a glimpse of me, and even when they can't see me they can still have me targeted? Shouldn't Dark Cloak break the target?

Zabus

Yeah the mage's detection area is ridiculous.

BSGDevastator

Worstluck wrote: »

So wait, this is what has been happening to me? After healing for most of my pvp career, I recently started going stealthy Nightblade, and I am constantly in combat, so annoying.

So someone can tab-target me while I am stealthed, if they happen to catch a glimpse of me, and even when they can't see me they can still have me targeted? Shouldn't Dark Cloak break the target?

Dark Cloak does not break the TAB-Lock sadly.

BSGDevastator

xsfkxnub19_ESO wrote: »

Yeah the mage's detection area is ridiculous.

It would be only logical if spotting people INSIDE the castle would be that easy, but sometimes I'm just trying to sneak past the castle and then they spot me.. aaaaaaaaaaannnnnd I'm in combat for the next 5min of hiding. Yay.

Iorail

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Worstluck wrote: »

So wait, this is what has been happening to me? After healing for most of my pvp career, I recently started going stealthy Nightblade, and I am constantly in combat, so annoying.

So someone can tab-target me while I am stealthed, if they happen to catch a glimpse of me, and even when they can't see me they can still have me targeted? Shouldn't Dark Cloak break the target?

Dark Cloak does not break the TAB-Lock sadly.

And it should cause the issue is I can tab target someone, kill him and he can respawn across the map and the tab target will persist for ever if I don't tab target anyone else, that's broken IMHO.

BSGDevastator

Iorail wrote: »

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Worstluck wrote: »

So wait, this is what has been happening to me? After healing for most of my pvp career, I recently started going stealthy Nightblade, and I am constantly in combat, so annoying.

So someone can tab-target me while I am stealthed, if they happen to catch a glimpse of me, and even when they can't see me they can still have me targeted? Shouldn't Dark Cloak break the target?

Dark Cloak does not break the TAB-Lock sadly.

And it should cause the issue is I can tab target someone, kill him and he can respawn across the map and the tab target will persist for ever if I don't tab target anyone else, that's broken IMHO.

Tab Targeting should be removed entirely. If you can't land your skills, then you're just bad. We don't need that stupid feature.

Kewljag_66_ESO

If you attack an enemy player and DO NOT kill him you will not be able to go into sneak for about 1 minute. Or if someone attacks you and you dont kill them then you will also have that long timer to before you can sneak again.

GreySix

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

If you attack an enemy player and DO NOT kill him you will not be able to go into sneak for about 1 minute. Or if someone attacks you and you dont kill them then you will also have that long timer to before you can sneak again.

Glad that doesn't happen in PvE, or that would just suck.

Iorail

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Iorail wrote: »

BSGDevastator wrote: »

Worstluck wrote: »

So wait, this is what has been happening to me? After healing for most of my pvp career, I recently started going stealthy Nightblade, and I am constantly in combat, so annoying.

So someone can tab-target me while I am stealthed, if they happen to catch a glimpse of me, and even when they can't see me they can still have me targeted? Shouldn't Dark Cloak break the target?

Dark Cloak does not break the TAB-Lock sadly.

And it should cause the issue is I can tab target someone, kill him and he can respawn across the map and the tab target will persist for ever if I don't tab target anyone else, that's broken IMHO.

Tab Targeting should be removed entirely. If you can't land your skills, then you're just bad. We don't need that stupid feature.

100% agree

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO

Here's a question : at odd times i was able to stealth and the reticle says hidden while i am still in combat, which is not supposed to happen right?

GreasedLizard

There is also a bug forever that requires you to have 2x the Cloak MP for it to work.