Rejoice! The Merc vendor is gone!

Lowbei

thanks, now dont screw it up by adding it back with different costs.

get this straight... we want pvp, not pvpve.

JosephChip

Finally a great change to the game.

nudel

Hate to break this to you, but the devs already said it was a temporary removal.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107032/6-3-14-hotfix-mercenary-merchants-in-cyrodiil#latest

They will be back.

Avidus

They will be back but fixed.
I personally think that it should be limited per player.
So Keep limit = 20
Merc limit per player = 2.

That way if you want a merc army it is a teamwork effort, not just the one guy spamming them like crazy.
Also, the cost should be increased when they return.

Perhaps reduce the teleport distance, or remove it all together, and make them simple ranged mercs, Rangers would make more sense to me.
Like isnt being a master mage supposed to be difficult?
Archers would make more sense, they could still AoE and stop zergs. Just not be annoying.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Set a cap of 4 active mercs per keep, fix them so they don't bug out all the time, and set it so you can only carry one at a time.

Or make them as easy to kill as players and then allow them to be spammed.

SC0TY999

Great news! Now maybe we can capture some keeps from the overpopulated alliance!

ThyIronFist

YESSS YESSS !!! 111!!!!! 1!!!

REJOICE MY BRE....

...wait? Not gone forever...?

NNNNOOOO

Mendoze

Sweet, this is good news. I just hope they won't bring those mercs back....ever.

zazamalek

Thanks for listening ZOS!

Kililin

You should try reading for once...

Some_Jerk

Was really hoping the mercs were gone forever.
Maybe one day...

Lowbei

they dont need a fix... we simply dont need them. we dont want pve in our pvp

shanersimms_ESO

The fix to allow lower populations to hold keeps vs larger without making Cyrodiil too much PvE:

Limit of 2 active mercs per defending player and mercs can only be placed by the same player once every "x" minutes (something like 10 minutes). Have mercs timeout (disappear) after being active for 20 minutes. (The merc contract has to end sometime right?)

Fix't. Where do I send my resume?

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Sucks they didn't disable the ones already purchase from use. Still broken merc capable.

Lorkhan

mercs should be gone forever

Censorious

The Mercs are every bit as bad as the arrowcarts of GW2 - that's something that caused many, many players to leave GW2 for TESO.

They both give an overwhelming advantage to defence and cause keep and resource battles to become drawn-out wars of attrition. It becomes impossible to take an objective with a surgical operation and hands the victory to the largest zerg.

It encourages the very disease it is meant to cure.

Krinaman

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

The fix to allow lower populations to hold keeps vs larger without making Cyrodiil too much PvE:

Limit of 2 active mercs per defending player and mercs can only be placed by the same player once every "x" minutes (something like 10 minutes). Have mercs timeout (disappear) after being active for 20 minutes. (The merc contract has to end sometime right?)

Fix't. Where do I send my resume?

That doesn't fix the problem. If two players are defending against 20 they would have a max 4 mercs which wouldn't even slow them down. Meanwhile, the side defending with 20 vs 10 attackers could spawn 40.

You need an inverse limit on the mercs. The more players you have in a keep the less you can spawn. Of course, the problem with that is one player could fill the keep with mercs before the zerg arrives to defend.

shanersimms_ESO

Krinaman wrote: »

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

The fix to allow lower populations to hold keeps vs larger without making Cyrodiil too much PvE:

Limit of 2 active mercs per defending player and mercs can only be placed by the same player once every "x" minutes (something like 10 minutes). Have mercs timeout (disappear) after being active for 20 minutes. (The merc contract has to end sometime right?)

Fix't. Where do I send my resume?

That doesn't fix the problem. If two players are defending against 20 they would have a max 4 mercs which wouldn't even slow them down. Meanwhile, the side defending with 20 vs 10 attackers could spawn 40.

You need an inverse limit on the mercs. The more players you have in a keep the less you can spawn. Of course, the problem with that is one player could fill the keep with mercs before the zerg arrives to defend.

It does fix the problem. If only 2 players are around a keep to defend against 20 live enemy players, they shouldn't have much of a chance to defend against those odds.

If 20 players are defending against a foroce half their size, the attacking force shouldn't have much of a chance of prevailing.

In another related scenario, if it were 20 attackers vs a keep being defended by 10 players, each defender could only have a maximum of 2 mercs up at any given time, you would have 20 players attacking a keep defended by 10 live players + 20 mercs. (20 v. 30) This gives a slight advantage to the defender as should be intended with the use of mercs.

This does resolve the problem. Successfully taking a keep should be more difficult than successfully defending, but not impossible with the right strength of force.

shanersimms_ESO

Also, just to note, there could be a maximum number of active mercs available within a keep (would make sense in terms of available food stores. You could even have this number lower if the attacking force takes the farm). So you could have a keep maximum of 20 (30? 40?) mercs alongside the per player maximum. That would resolve issues of 100 defending players spawning 200 mercs :P

Lowbei

.... or just dont have mercs

this isnt rocket science.

Anazasi

Mercs placed properly that do not bug out are valuable when combating off hour zergs. There is no doubt they would sometimes bug out and yes they were a pain, but while most claim that they were exploited by some, the fact remains that caltrops was exploited by a majority. The community faced those caltrop exploiters constantly, mercs, however, were rather easy to deal with. Its a shame that the merc crisis brought a quick and decisive response from the DEVS while caltrops was left unchecked for weeks. Does this mean that whoever was on vacation during the caltrop period is now back to work and things are going to be more closely watched? Or does this mean that Zin has learned a valuable lesson and will act more rapidly now to the pvp community? I don't know the answer and they will probably never tell us, but the Merc issue has left many of the smaller factions helpless.

SC0TY999

Population detection is what is needed in PvP if one alliance is seriously outnumbered then more NPC's spawn at the keep and resources to help defend. Then you don't even need the mercs this would be fair across the board.

Mykah

Just remove them instead of wasting dev resource on gimick crap like Pve mobs in Pvp zones.

joshisanonymous

We had to fight armies of mercenaries last night on Skull Crusher, many of which were bugged. At least for the time being, those who stocked up on them have a nice advantage.

Krinaman wrote: »

You need an inverse limit on the mercs. The more players you have in a keep the less you can spawn. Of course, the problem with that is one player could fill the keep with mercs before the zerg arrives to defend.

I like this idea. The whole point of mercenaries is to give smaller numbers a fighting chance. The only time mercenaries really seem like a problem is when you're up against a large force and their army of mercenaries. A group of 20 real players will still likely take whatever objective they want when fighting against 2 defenders and their mercenaries.

Mendoze

Mykah wrote: »

Just remove them instead of wasting dev resource on gimick crap like Pve mobs in Pvp zones.

Totally agree!

JamilaRaj

Krinaman wrote: »

That doesn't fix the problem. If two players are defending against 20 they would have a max 4 mercs which wouldn't even slow them down. Meanwhile, the side defending with 20 vs 10 attackers could spawn 40.

You need an inverse limit on the mercs. The more players you have in a keep the less you can spawn. Of course, the problem with that is one player could fill the keep with mercs before the zerg arrives to defend.

Could be elaborated further. Mercs over current limit could simply dissolve or have lifespan/power/whatever decreased as more players enter the area.
Also, inverse limit could take into account distance frome home keeps or overall attackers/defenders ratio. Therefore, even if there were 20 players defending, they could make use of full NPC guard, when pushed back to their last keeps or facing even greater numbers.

Lowbei

.... or just dont have mercs

this isnt rocket science.

shanersimms_ESO

Lowbei wrote: »

.... or just dont have mercs

this isnt rocket science.

If you throw out mercs altogether you have little defense vs night capping groups. Mercs are valuable to the faction who only has a handful of people playing in the wee hours of the morning and can allow them to defend against a group of 10-15 night cappers.

You shouldn't work all day to do well on a map just to log back in the next and have all that progress erased by night cappers who had practically no resistance.

So the issue might require a little more thought than you're providing it.

Samadhi

Lowbei wrote: »

.... or just dont have mercs

this isnt rocket science.

Definitely the best approach to mercs.

Kaytlin

For those who don't think the developer's are listening. The mercs were taken down only a short time after it was brought to their attention there was a problem with them. They are out there and they do act!

Turelus

I wont lie, PVP had been much more enjoyable since those mercs left.
Actually fighting players rather than 10-20 NPCs.