The naming and shaming moderation policy on these boards. Do you agree/disagree?

GrimCyclone

Personally I disagree with the policy. However, I think as long as you are not being totally vulgar and inflammatory to the person in your exposition, you are fine. One of the good things about our society is how we are able to moderate others by calling them out for their BS. I.E. that racist NBA owner that got called out. I'm not mentioning his name because I bet they'll even mod that lol.

Anyways, seriously, what do you guys think? And just for the sake of argument, let's not think that people would just come here and lie on everyone. Let's say that anyone being called out would be so in truth and without bias or ill-agenda. After all, there will always be fraud, but overall the thing itself is a tool. We shouldn't just ban all our tools just because some people misuse them.

I bet there's a lot of people you guys would like to call out. Not only that I bet you wish that you could somehow effect their gameplay due to that person's behavior. So, for "general discussion" on this topic, please elaborate on some possible scenarios you'd like to see. If anything it will be entertaining and insightful to read. Or just share some anonymous persons actions that effected you.

Pele

GrimCyclone wrote: »

And just for the sake of argument, let's not think that people would just come here and lie on everyone. Let's say that anyone being called out would be so in truth and without bias or ill-agenda. After all, there will always be fraud, but overall the thing itself is a tool. We shouldn't just ban all our tools just because some people misuse them.

- Therein lies the problem. How do you ascertain who is telling the truth and who is being spiteful?

- There is no such thing as an unbiased friendly name-and-shame post. The very concept of naming and shaming is to humiliate other players, hence the latter part of the term.

- Naming and shaming leads to flame wars, and a battle of back and forth hearsay posts, which is a waste of time and resources to moderate when there are much more important matters that need to be addressed.

- Players disagree on anything and everything. I've read rage-filled posts with the rager up in arms over the most trivial thing. What if someone is called out on something that is not against the game rules, but in the accuser's eyes, the named is guilty of an egregious breach of conduct?

E.g., a player is struggling to kill mobs that are guarding a chest or node. Another player comes along and doesn't help the player who is fighting; instead, he opens the chest or harvests the node then runs off. The player who was fighting for the chest or node then comes to the forums to name and shame.

What is to be done in such a case? Who gets to judge who is right and who is wrong when the named player did not break any game rules, but the accuser and others may find his behavior despicable?

- Let's say the player being named and shamed did indeed break the rules. Are there not proper channels in place to report abuse and such behavior? What is accomplished by outing them on the forums, which are not read by the entire player base; perhaps not even the named? Is shunning by the community your ultimate goal? If so, what if the named player doesn't care? What then have you accomplished by naming and shaming?


TL:DR: I agree with the no naming-and-shaming policy.

DireKit

HEY, YOU GUYS. YOU KNOW WHO'S ABSOLUTE CRAP? DireKit. She's the worst, she sucks donkey balls. She should be hanged, stabbed, and burned! YEAH!

We found rare loot We needed in an instance and she ninja'd it! Plus she always says such stupid things in Zone chat!

KaedianEQ

Once again, another thread asking for opinions when the only opinions that matter are those of the site owners.

You agreed to the EULA to play and you agreed to the site rules when you registered here.

You don't have to like them or agree with them, you do however need to abide by them.

Now if you really feel some unquenchable need to call out fellow players for whatever reason, create a forum of your own elsewhere and handle the moderation or lack thereof.

Arsenic_Touch

What exactly would it accomplish to remove the naming and shaming policy except give people free reign to slander others? Let me guess, you want free reign to call out bots and other exploiters? despite the fact that posting them on the forum accomplishes absolutely nothing because the ZoS staff here have nothing to do with the GMs in game.

Catflinger

It is a typical policy for gaming forums. I am used to it.

Rylana

Why exactly do you need a forum lynch mob for your personal drama to be resolved?

DenverRalphy

It's a good policy that anything prone and vulnerable to be abused by griefing should not be allowed. If the online population has proven anything, it's that as a whole they cannot be trusted to behave in a respectful manner without any form of regulation or oversight. Naming and Shaming would lead to a very unpleasant atmosphere.

Alurria

Personally, it's a waste to name and shame on a gaming forum. But you see it all the time, that includes posters who literally go after the developers. They rage over what?..a video game. Or maybe they are trolling, (most likely this), what these people do not see is the people laughing AT them for being butt hurt over a game. I think they should shut the forums down and provide a feedback area with a limit on how many feed backs per day. These forums are toxic, finding a decent conversation is almost impossible and when you do some troll comes in and ruins it.

People will find another venue to communicate and it would be better then this cesspool of venom and bile called general discussion. Negative breeds negative. Not good...at all.

nerevarine1138

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It's a good policy that anything prone and vulnerable to be abused by griefing should not be allowed. If the online population has proven anything, it's that as a whole they cannot be trusted to behave in a respectful manner without any form of regulation or oversight. Naming and Shaming would lead to a very unpleasant atmosphere.

Agree. Forums usually represent the absolute worst of any community, and giving people in them free license to call others out creates, at best, unnecessary drama. At worst, it screws up the game experience for some poor player who never reads the forums to know that they're being used for slander.

Oh, and to respond to the OP: we can say that these hypothetical posts would be polite, truthful, and completely without bias. We can also say that the sky is pink and unicorns are the best mode of transit.

Coggage

The main reason I ignore any "naming and shaming" on a forum is that I don't know either party involved in the affair. The person naming and shaming could be an outright liar for all I know. so I'm not going to believe what they say just because they say it's true.

In addition, the events in a game aren't life or death to anyone so, ultimately, who else would care.

AlexDougherty

GrimCyclone wrote: »

Personally I disagree with the policy. However, I think as long as you are not being totally vulgar and inflammatory to the person in your exposition, you are fine.

How to put this, have you met people, in groups they tend towards vulgar and inflammatory statements.

As others have said Naming and Shaming is for the purpose of embarrassing another person, this by it's very nature is inflammatory.

Say for example someone came into the forums and said that Qwertyuiop grouped with them, and ninja'd all the best gear. Friends of Qwertyuiop would defend them, and either say you are making it up or exaggerating, friends of yours would defend you saying you are honest and not prone to exaggeration. Meanwhile random strangers would be encouraging both sides, and making stuff up about both of you. The others would say they were ninja's by Asdfghjkl and Zxcvbnm, and in come another two groups of friends.

Meanwhile nothing would get sorted, and quite a few people would turn nasty towards each other, possibly permanently.

No, having a no names policy is a good idea, lets get stuck into issues not names, that way we can all stay polite.

brandon

I disagree to an extent if its a bot then I don't see why you can't do it but for real people I don't think it should be allowed

redspecter23

I understand completely why the policy is in place. It's not about the black and white, clear cut situations. It's about covering the grey areas.

I'll give an example about naming and shaming that I experienced in game a few days ago. A player stated in zone chat "Don't trust XXXX. He's a cheater and ripped me off." My immediate reaction was maybe the player was ripped off for gold or some COD deal gone wrong. So after the player was questioned about the situation, he replied in all seriousness that the offending player and himself were both running for a collection node, but XXXX got there first and harvested... gasp!... without agreeing to roll off to see who gets it. Needless to say, zone chat filled up with a pile of trash talk after that.

The point is, people get offended by a variety of things. It probably would never be an issue if you named/shamed bots on the forums. It could get a bit dramatic with exploiters as well, but they really don't have a case if they are caught in the act. It's situations like the one above that have to be avoided as they could end up giving innocent players (or those accusing them) a bad name.

ebunts14_ESO

Zos has the right to set the standards on their forums. You agreed to those rules, like it or not, agree with it or not.

Name and Shame is also a form of bullying. In many states cyber bullying is becoming illegal. If Name and Shame was allowed, then players would leave themselves open for possible prosecution. You may think this is a joke, but it is in deed a fact and it is serious.

AlexDougherty

ebuntsb14_ESO wrote: »

Zos has the right to set the standards on their forums. You agreed to those rules, like it or not, agree with it or not.

Name and Shame is also a form of bullying. In many states cyber bullying is becoming illegal. If Name and Shame was allowed, then players would leave themselves open for possible prosecution. You may think this is a joke, but it is in deed a fact and it is serious.

Not just States, it's a crime in the EU too, and the EU does prosecute, including people in other countries.

kaosodin

The forum moderators chastized me for a post I made, nlw im scared to post any thing......the warning said they could cancel my game account for posting issues.

nerevarine1138

kaosodin wrote: »

The forum moderators chastized me for a post I made, nlw im scared to post any thing......the warning said they could cancel my game account for posting issues.

No, it didn't. It said:

"Please understand that our goal is to create a fun, welcoming, and safe environment for The Elder Scrolls Online community, and continued violations of our Code of Conduct can lead to temporary or permanent removal of your forum posting access. We encourage you to take a moment to review The Elder Scrolls Online Code of Conduct to prevent future warnings, infractions, or interruption of your posting access."

Your game account cannot be suspended/banned/anything for any posts you make on the forums.

KerinKor

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Your game account cannot be suspended/banned/anything for any posts you make on the forums.

Stop making up what you don't know ...

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7951/kw/account ban

If I’m banned from the forums, can I still play the game?
Updated 05/01/2014 01:01 PM Published 04/04/2014 08:10 PM
No. If a player's ESO forum account is suspended or banned, their ESO game account will receive the same disciplinary action. Players who violate the Community Code of Conduct on the forums should be aware that infractions on the forums will affect their ability to access both the forums and the game itself.

vyal

Post them on a third party forum. If that doesn't work, make your own forum. The software is free, and a dedicated forum host is $30-$40/year.

Azphira

It's mostly because people coming to a forum full of posts of people getting one shot in pvp for 4000 damage, bots floating through walls and terrain, etc, scare away sales. Name and shame screenshots are proof of problem, anything else is easily dismissible anecdotal hearsay.

Rosveen

Why do you need to call out people on a public forum? What do you want to accomplish? I'm honestly curious. I don't see what kind of problem it could help with.

GrimCyclone

OP Response (for scanners that might miss it.)

Thank you for the feedback guys.

I would like for a few more fun-to-read scenarios about experiences you've had with other players though.

And for those of you want to attack me, lol. Those were kind of entertaining, but you guys made it a little too official and serious sounding. It sounds better if you're more trollish and vitriolic. Or at least more colorful. I mean if you're going to humiliate me, be expeditious about it! Sorry, I'm a masochist. I love it.

Hmm, lemme think. Have I had anyone ever really p me off online? Not really guys. I mean, I guess the only thing that really bothers me when I see it online are when people are cruel to others without warrant or proper cause. That and people who blatantly ignore you when you know they can hear you. Either way, I don't let any of that bother me. I do stand up for people that get bullied though.

I guess if I were to call someone out it would be for scamming. Of course the community would then just be a mix of agreeing or calling me stupid for getting scammed. But I think we'd all like to know who the scammers MIGHT be. I bet that kinda thing helps in EVE Online.

Anywho, thanks again for the feedback. Many of you gave good thoughtful reasons for why you agree with the policy. I respect that.

GrimCyclone

Oh, I thought the e card was pretty funny. I like the look on her face + the text.

AlexDougherty

kaosodin wrote: »

The forum moderators chastized me for a post I made, nlw im scared to post any thing......the warning said they could cancel my game account for posting issues.

Only for repeatedly violating the forum rules, if your issue is against said rules they can ban you, otherwise you're able to discuss most things.
community-rules

KerinKor

GrimCyclone wrote: »

I guess if I were to call someone out it would be for scamming. Of course the community would then just be a mix of agreeing or calling me stupid for getting scammed. But I think we'd all like to know who the scammers MIGHT be. I bet that kinda thing helps in EVE Online.

Presumably you know what vigilante means .. mentioning EVE makes me think you probably do.

Aoifesan

Questioning moderation shall not be tolerated. In before deletion!

GrimCyclone

lol

GrimCyclone

KerinKor wrote: »

Presumably you know what vigilante means .. mentioning EVE makes me think you probably do.

Naah, I never did play it. I've just heard a lot about it on TS3/Ventrilo from other players. I'm curious and like to pick brains. They tell me all kinds of cool stuff about EVE, but I don't recall what a vigilante is.

AlexDougherty

GrimCyclone wrote: »

OP Response (for scanners that might miss it.)

I guess if I were to call someone out it would be for scamming. Of course the community would then just be a mix of agreeing or calling me stupid for getting scammed. But I think we'd all like to know who the scammers MIGHT be. I bet that kinda thing helps in EVE Online.

Problem is some people don't bother to check, they don't hear that So & So might be a scammer/ninja/goldseller, they instead hear that So & So is a scammer/ninja/goldseller. Then they act as they think is appropriate.

Then when they find out they acted wrong say "Well my mate Bob said they were a scammer, so I decided to give them justice, not my fault they was innocent" (bad grammar is their's not mine btw).

Now I'm not saying these people are bad (well actually), but they are irredeemably stupid. And they are an example of why naming suspected scammers/ninjas/goldsellers is a bad idea.

PS. if anyone is offended by my description of these people, then stop and take a good look at your life, because I'm not apologising.

GrimCyclone

lol oh that gives me an idea. You know what would be funny? Is if we could subscribe to system messages for bot EXECUTION! Or banned player execution. They'd give us a message about when it was going to happen, we could warp to "The Isle of Judgment." And a GM or GM npc could do this ceremonial smiting of the player and they would be smashed into dust or something entertaining. I'm not one for gore, but smashing someone into divine bits or something would be cool. Like a holy scattering of particles.