What is the healing staff nerf all about?

someuser

So the following is from the patch notes today under the Templar class:

Healing Staff •Siphon Spirit: This ability no longer generates ultimate. This is a temporary fix until we can resolve an issue where the ability generates more ultimate than intended.


I don't know too much about this as I never used this ability to farm ultimate... But aren't Templars useless enough end-game? I keep hearing our DPS is too low (600 dps at best) and other classes (like sorc) have nearly unlimited magika for spamming healing.

So why do they keep messing with us Templars?

Maybe its fair and it was needed... please explain this to me.

temjiu

to be fair...they didn't mess with Templars. we need to stop re-directing changes in unfair ways. Resto staff is not a Templar weapon...as a matter of fact, if you look at general class design, Templars are probably the one class that needs resto staff's the LEAST in order to fill a healing role.

Templar simply need some serious love in the buffing department, staff or NO staff. the OP-ness of the staff builds are irrelevant to that fact.

Now to the change...its nothing more then a "were going to nerf the OP builds a bit before we work on global sweeping class changes" approach. can't say if it's better or worse, but since its a quick fix, it impacts little.

someuser

ah. I see. Makes sense.

NerfEverything

This wasn't much of a nerf to templars. Our ultimates are complete garbage, so this was actually a nerf to all the other classes with useful ultimates.

Although, if they nerf Resto Staff hard enough, maybe our class skill lines will actually become more useful than the weapon skills that anyone can use.

someuser

Interesting take on things @NerfEverything. Maybe you are right.

Hodorius

Finally this "Stop pulling I have to charge my Ultimate!" has gotten to an end.

Imagine everyone in a dungeon or before a trial-boss having a resto staff equipped and overhealing each other until all the Ultimates were rdy.

Then they switch back to their original weapons...

Mortosk

Someone told them some Templars were still using healing staffs, therefore they had to get right on that and nerf it.

zgrssd

Afaik the problem was this:
You get Ultimate whenever you heal somebody.
Every Siphon Spirit heal counted for that.
Every DoT tick triggered Siphon as well.

Especially with 12 man trials or PvP situations using a resto staff just to get really fast ultimate gain was tempting.
It should lower the incentive for non-healers to equip Resto Staff as off weapon. Wich in turn could lower the interest in Ligh Armor DPS builds a bit.
Should and could! We see how it works out.

someuser

Well, seems the nerf was fair and needed. I guess I'm just "on edge" with the fact that both my toons (Templar and Nightblade) seem to be broke... I see a nerf and I get antsy.

Farham

They nerfed it because SORC/DK only groups doing VR and Crag dungeons were going Destro/Restor staff (all 4) and spamming the Restro abilities just over an over again making them essentially invulnerable while they soaked up Ult exp allowing their Ults refilled in no time. They then just kept spamming their Ults to beat down the mobs and Bosses.

That is why they mentioned "temporary". Because they have to figure out how to actually fix it without breaking Restro staff completely.

But Restro staff is going to get a nerf. This was just the easiest way to stop the dungeon "exploiting" that was going on.

That they made this change so fast (well for them) tells you how game breaking it was to have people farm the dungeons in this manner.

NerfEverything

someuser wrote: »

Well, seems the nerf was fair and needed. I guess I'm just "on edge" with the fact that both my toons (Templar and Nightblade) seem to be broke... I see a nerf and I get antsy.

Ouch, those are two tough classes to be playing right now. It looks like they are getting NB close to fixed though. The class has so much potential; everything is there, it just needs to work.

moXrox

Everyone can use a healing staff, this is not Templar specific.

GreasedLizard

It's only criticals if I recall, but ya ... you can have many people hitting the target that you Siphon Spirit in a raid. Currently bugged to heal you for +100% from any source of healing too, vs just the proc.

Phantorang

temjiu wrote: »

to be fair...they didn't mess with Templars. we need to stop re-directing changes in unfair ways. Resto staff is not a Templar weapon...as a matter of fact, if you look at general class design, Templars are probably the one class that needs resto staff's the LEAST in order to fill a healing role.

Templar simply need some serious love in the buffing department, staff or NO staff. the OP-ness of the staff builds are irrelevant to that fact.

Now to the change...its nothing more then a "were going to nerf the OP builds a bit before we work on global sweeping class changes" approach. can't say if it's better or worse, but since its a quick fix, it impacts little.

That could be true, if Templar had a way to replenish Magicka.

But the truth is that the Templar is the class most dependent on resto staff, by far. simply because Resto staff heavy attack is the only vialble way for Templar to regen Magicka.

This gimps the Templar beyond any other class, cuz in long battles we use 1 resto staff heavy attacks for every magicka ability we use.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

At least you arent a DK tank. Patch 1.1.3: RIP DK Tanks.

GreasedLizard

@Phantorang Nah, dual wield some Magicka steal enchanted Purple daggers.

I think 'Powered' trait is better. If I remember correctly, as DW, you get 2 proc per odd numbered swing. Base DW speed = 1.37 att / s

infused is a runner up. As could be critical I guess, since you get 2 (or set pcs)

Covyn

Siphon Spirit is used in "Battery Builds" to regain magicka and health at the same time, it was also incorrectly generating Ultimate...feeding into the AoE DK builds. I'm sure the other classes utilized it, but that is where I can see their aim.

GreasedLizard

Covyn wrote: »

Siphon Spirit is used in "Battery Builds" to regain magicka and health at the same time, it was also incorrectly generating Ultimate...feeding into the AoE DK builds. I'm sure the other classes utilized it, but that is where I can see their aim.

That is truly what irks me. Not every class or build can benefit from this, yet every single one is affected by the change. Single targ NB gets another shaft, many since they promised to align us closer to others.

The path to Hell is paved with good intentions

JosephChip

Hodorius wrote: »

Finally this "Stop pulling I have to charge my Ultimate!" has gotten to an end.

Imagine everyone in a dungeon or before a trial-boss having a resto staff equipped and overhealing each other until all the Ultimates were rdy.

Then they switch back to their original weapons...

What? Siphon Spirit has to be targeted on an enemy.

drschplatt

and other classes (like sorc) have nearly unlimited magika for spamming healing.

Do what?

Mortosk

Farham wrote: »

They nerfed it because SORC/DK only groups doing VR and Crag dungeons were going Destro/Restor staff (all 4) and spamming the Restro abilities just over an over again making them essentially invulnerable while they soaked up Ult exp allowing their Ults refilled in no time. They then just kept spamming their Ults to beat down the mobs and Bosses.

That is why they mentioned "temporary". Because they have to figure out how to actually fix it without breaking Restro staff completely.

But Restro staff is going to get a nerf. This was just the easiest way to stop the dungeon "exploiting" that was going on.

That they made this change so fast (well for them) tells you how game breaking it was to have people farm the dungeons in this manner.

I've noticed the 10 minute trials seem to have been eliminated. There is a 16 minute one though.

dsalter

i dunno why they didnt make ulti charge specific to the skillset your using, weapon switch means bar 2 so you have to fill another to have 2 ulti's charged instead of charge, switch cast, switch, charge, repeat

Merlin13KAGL

zgrssd wrote: »

Afaik the problem was this:
You get Ultimate whenever you heal somebody.
Every Siphon Spirit heal counted for that.
Every DoT tick triggered Siphon as well.

I'm assuming this (particular combination) was specific to Templar use.

As I understand it, you do get Ultimate/possibly XP's from healing...but only when someone is injured. Spamming Restro heal when someone is at full health has the same benefit as casting Dark Talons on a field of daisies, except with the pretty emanating glow.

RylukShouja

NerfEverything wrote: »

This wasn't much of a nerf to templars. Our ultimates are complete garbage, so this was actually a nerf to all the other classes with useful ultimates.

Although, if they nerf Resto Staff hard enough, maybe our class skill lines will actually become more useful than the weapon skills that anyone can use.

Quoted for truth. Of the 2 damage skill lines, there is one ability I use that I find worth it, for ranged combat, as far as utility to magicka cost. I am a Templar full of passives...and some heals.