What You Don't Know About NightBlades (re:Trials)

Nuitar

1) We have a spammable ult that offers 30% damage mitigation in an AoE
2) We can reach 1k sustained single target DPS while spamming this ult
3) Our shade skill reduces boss damage by 15% (proven on the Mage, final boss of AA)
4) Our execute hits for 1k and crits for 1500. Via animation weaving I can hit 1200+ DPS during burn phases.

I'm not saying stack your group with NBs - but a good caster NB really helps with safe runs, and beats all but the best sorcs in terms of DPS *AND* utility.

To win the trials speed runs? 10 DKs, 2 templar healers. (Maybe 1 temp, 1 NB).

Signed,
1 of 2 NBs in the top 10 trials times

Arreyanne

Nuitar wrote: »

***snip*** but a good caster NB***SNIP***

And there in lies the entire problem with this game

Staff or go home

vicNBitis

"Animation weaving". I like that. Sounds much less exploit-y.

Worstluck

What armor set do you recommend?

Nuitar

I use warlock helm / robe, seducer 3 piece, willows path 3 piece, with +13 spell damage enchants and 2300 magicka

subecsanur

Nuitar wrote: »

1) We have a spammable ult that offers 30% damage mitigation in an AoE
2) We can reach 1k sustained single target DPS while spamming this ult
3) Our shade skill reduces boss damage by 15% (proven on the Mage, final boss of AA)
4) Our execute hits for 1k and crits for 1500. Via animation weaving I can hit 1200+ DPS during burn phases.

I'm not saying stack your group with NBs - but a good caster NB really helps with safe runs, and beats all but the best sorcs in terms of DPS *AND* utility.

To win the trials speed runs? 10 DKs, 2 templar healers. (Maybe 1 temp, 1 NB).

Signed,
1 of 2 NBs in the top 10 trials times

Heh, thx for the info but this is again for a "good caster NB".
I am glad though somehow we are able to get into trials.

NB = nightblade, at least you get to use the night portion of our class to its purpose, maybe they should change it and call it Nightstaff and use light armor also in our character creation page.

Zaxq

1) We have a spammable ult that offers 30% damage mitigation in an AoE. Frequently castable, not spammable.
2) We can reach 1k sustained single target DPS while spamming this ult. Single Target was never the NB problem. Other classes will also hit that 1k ST DPS, and bring better AoE DPS and have a better heal off-spec/tank-off spec.
3) Our shade skill reduces boss damage by 15% (proven on the Mage, final boss of AA) Borderline useful. Nice to have, but not required.
4) Our execute hits for 1k and crits for 1500. Via animation weaving I can hit 1200+ DPS during burn phases. Execute only works if you get the boss to 20-25% hp anyway. So you're better off bringing proper DPS. 1 NB spamming Impale makes very little actual difference if you've already burned 75% of the boss hp. Otherwise Impale hits for low dmg, nowhere near 1k

I'm not saying stack your group with NBs - but a good caster NB really helps with safe runs, and beats all but the best sorcs in terms of DPS *AND* utility. Caster NB - say no more.

To win the trials speed runs? 10 DKs, 2 templar healers. (Maybe 1 temp, 1 NB). 10 DKs . . . (although, i suspect 12 good sorcs could get the fastest time.

Axewaffle

As a caster nightblade that also runs these skills, I can safely reach 750 dps during regular burns, and over 1k on execute range burns (assuming appropriate buffs/debuffs are applied through the raid). I regularly get invited on trial clears because of my ultimate that has over 100% up time, since I can usualy refresh it before its even 75% through its duration, allowing me to keep it up even in semi mobile fights. My damage also provides a raid wide 250-550 hps which isnt much but it helps. My damage isnt reduced by being mobile, and the execute damage is actualy superior on nightblades compared to mages.

With the new buffs to nightblade comming out this patch, expect to get alot more invites, I expect our dps to see a 20% increase... The crit for our veil of blades is frigging massive, and the extra boost to spell crit/power potions is going to be insane.

jircris11

i play my NB as an assassin, i dont really care if i get the "best DPS" she is not V12 and i honestly did not have any trouble with vet content...though i did die a lot because out tank did not seem to know how to hold aggro. And before you ask no i was not bursting the target before he got a solid aggro on it. But all in all i enjoy my DW/Bow NB with assassin and siphon tree. I had shadow for a while but got rid of it to make points for crafting cause now i need to work on that :P

subecsanur

jircris11 wrote: »

i play my NB as an assassin, i dont really care if i get the "best DPS" she is not V12 and i honestly did not have any trouble with vet content...though i did die a lot because out tank did not seem to know how to hold aggro. And before you ask no i was not bursting the target before he got a solid aggro on it. But all in all i enjoy my DW/Bow NB with assassin and siphon tree. I had shadow for a while but got rid of it to make points for crafting cause now i need to work on that :P

There is another mechanics issue that is broken btw, tanking in this game is a joke. How is it that our lack luster dps can generate that much threat that a tank can't pull back? And yet that other caster is tearing the boss down doesn't generate aggro, something is a miss here.

Ysne58

I've been noticing that whenever I'm in combat and other people are around, but no other nightblades, the mobs come after my character. Perhaps I should try tanking since it's happening anyway?

eNumbra

Ysne58 wrote: »

I've been noticing that whenever I'm in combat and other people are around, but no other nightblades, the mobs come after my character. Perhaps I should try tanking since it's happening anyway?

subecsanur wrote: »

There is another mechanics issue that is broken btw, tanking in this game is a joke. How is it that our lack luster dps can generate that much threat that a tank can't pull back? And yet that other caster is tearing the boss down doesn't generate aggro, something is a miss here.

This.

It's like mobs know Nightblades are broken.

Traafenn

What the OP doesn't know about nightblades

1) We have a spammable ult that offers 30% damage mitigation in an AoE

-costs 200 ult so it is only spammable in heavy aoe dps/heal situations, but for those situations it is awesome and the defining nightblade ability. Without this ultimate you would never see a video of a nightblade pulling a pack of mobs.


2) We can reach 1k sustained single target DPS while spamming this ult

-having played this exact same build since beta i can tell you that we can reach 450 dps solo with animation weaving and swallow soul spam (with overcharged magicka and standard sets like warlock/crafted spell crit sets and magicka cost reduction jewels)

-If you "spam" this ult in a single target fight (which you cannot) it can only add 200 dps tops, since it does 100 dmg every 0,5 secs. Since you only get around 3 ult per second in your single target rotation, it will probably be up once every minute. This means you will get 50 dps out of it in the long run, single target.

-therefore the dps our OP here can do is 500, the rest 500 dps is made up in the OPs mind or from some raid wide dps buffs that nightblades do not have and can be added to any other class dps.

-The OP might also be mixing up aoe dps with single target dps


3) Our shade skill reduces boss damage by 15% (proven on the Mage, final boss of AA)

-yes

4) Our execute hits for 1k and crits for 1500. Via animation weaving I can hit 1200+ DPS during burn phases.

-our execute hits for 700 and crits for 1050. However the crit is based on melee crit and nightblade casters have no melee crit, so he doesn't crit with it. Therefore he can do 700 dps + animation weaving, so let's say 800 dps if he can fire both off every 1 seconds.


So all in all we are looking at 500 dps 75% of the time and 800 dps in execute phase, which means around 575 dps overall for a single target boss fight. This is with perfect rotation and using mage's guild Spell Symmetry for mana, because with siphoning strikes you would nerf your own dps by 22% to about 450 dps.


OP: correct me if i'm wrong, or is there something you're not telling us?

Therium104

eNumbra wrote: »

Ysne58 wrote: »

I've been noticing that whenever I'm in combat and other people are around, but no other nightblades, the mobs come after my character. Perhaps I should try tanking since it's happening anyway?

subecsanur wrote: »

There is another mechanics issue that is broken btw, tanking in this game is a joke. How is it that our lack luster dps can generate that much threat that a tank can't pull back? And yet that other caster is tearing the boss down doesn't generate aggro, something is a miss here.

This.

It's like mobs know Nightblades are broken.

Broken? They guy posted a competitive build for NB and we all know the NB class can solo in Craglorn. The only thing broken is you and the apparent lack of skill.

Also, to assume that you as a NB are the only one who dies is more biased garbage.

The lesson learned is the NB class has the tools. It just requires a competent player.

eNumbra

Therium104 wrote: »

snip

I was referring to the melee and bow Assassin archetypes.

Light armor + Staffs is neither learning to play nor skill. It's THE synergy in the game, there is no balance between magicka builds and stamina builds currently, so instead of acting like an elitist prat why don't you just mind your business.

OP also didn't post a build, he spouted a bunch of half truth crap.

captain_awesome

vicNBitis wrote: »

"Animation weaving". I like that. Sounds much less exploit-y.

It's an exploit. Cheating.
All the top players are doing it. Oh what.....

10 DK,s 1 or 2 caster Caster NB and 1 Templar.
Nothing wrong with that setup at all... Except:

10 DKs - no sorcerors.
Templars are healing spec, they cant come as dps or tank.
NB Caster... Cant come as any form of melee whatsoever.

And all in light armour.

It's bullcrap. And Not Fun. Probably why the game is already super quiet.

Comaetilico

Traafenn wrote: »

What the OP doesn't know about nightblades

1) We have a spammable ult that offers 30% damage mitigation in an AoE

-costs 200 ult so it is only spammable in heavy aoe dps/heal situations, but for those situations it is awesome and the defining nightblade ability. Without this ultimate you would never see a video of a nightblade pulling a pack of mobs.


2) We can reach 1k sustained single target DPS while spamming this ult

-having played this exact same build since beta i can tell you that we can reach 450 dps solo with animation weaving and swallow soul spam (with overcharged magicka and standard sets like warlock/crafted spell crit sets and magicka cost reduction jewels)

-If you "spam" this ult in a single target fight (which you cannot) it can only add 200 dps tops, since it does 100 dmg every 0,5 secs. Since you only get around 3 ult per second in your single target rotation, it will probably be up once every minute. This means you will get 50 dps out of it in the long run, single target.

-therefore the dps our OP here can do is 500, the rest 500 dps is made up in the OPs mind or from some raid wide dps buffs that nightblades do not have and can be added to any other class dps.

-The OP might also be mixing up aoe dps with single target dps


3) Our shade skill reduces boss damage by 15% (proven on the Mage, final boss of AA)

-yes

4) Our execute hits for 1k and crits for 1500. Via animation weaving I can hit 1200+ DPS during burn phases.

-our execute hits for 700 and crits for 1050. However the crit is based on melee crit and nightblade casters have no melee crit, so he doesn't crit with it. Therefore he can do 700 dps + animation weaving, so let's say 800 dps if he can fire both off every 1 seconds.


So all in all we are looking at 500 dps 75% of the time and 800 dps in execute phase, which means around 575 dps overall for a single target boss fight. This is with perfect rotation and using mage's guild Spell Symmetry for mana, because with siphoning strikes you would nerf your own dps by 22% to about 450 dps.


OP: correct me if i'm wrong, or is there something you're not telling us?

1) you can get more than 200 ulti over 12 sec in a single target fight... especialy if you get high crit and use funnel health in place of swallow soul... (heals on other generate ultimate and crit generate additional ultimate) also don't forget cripple... it deal quite the good damage per cast and also can crit on every single tick generating additional ultimate per second... also the tick of utli can crit them too generating themself ultimate... you can reach over 10 ulti per second if you build for high crit (and can reach over 50% crit with easy... and a 30% bonus with consumables...)

2) hom much power do you have? (you should be over 130 only with equip... prior to buff/consumable) what consumable are you using? (magika and health food are a must for trials and magika recovery + spellpower + spell critIs is what you should be using during trials) is your target debuffed? (we'r talking about the dps generated in a 12 man group... so you have to take into account buff and debuff from other sources than you alone) what weapon do you have equipped? (resto staff is what you should be using for 10% additional damage at full health)

I've seen pelnty of people saing that they can't reach over 500 dps on a sorc... still we get top tier sorc going over 1k... so the fact that YOU can't go over 450 doesn't mean that NB can't do it...

4) just to begin with... you have at least 8/9% weapon crit... 2% from the assassination passive (assuming you only have impale in your bar... yep the passive is bugged... but the bug in the display in character page.. it is working you simply don't see the correct number)... 6/7% (based on the weapon being purple or gold rarity) from your weapon precise trait... add an additional 5% if you use the thief... an additional 7% you can get from PvP buff... and if you use a dedicated exeution bar (like many sorc do) you can get even higher crit rate... so you can get from a minimum of 8% (purple weapon and only impale) to a maximum of 31% (in a full assassination bar... probably not the optimal setup but you can squeze at least a couple assassination skill in this bar)... for the basic damage see point 2... especialy the power and resto staff are quite heavy in the damage output on skill as this...


again... if YOU can't get a result it doesn't mean that that result can't be achived ^^

Traafenn

This is a constructive answer with good points in it:
-funnel health would be a direct improvement to my ult generation in a group.
-Having a dedicated execute bar for melee crit would be another direct improvement.

Since i have built for lone wolfing in pvp and pve, i have not seen use for these group play optimizations (and morph).

With these additions i can see that over 700 dps can be possible in a group setting. (650 75% of the time + 910 25% of the time = 715 dps).

Add the effect of magicka/spellpower/spellcrit potion and it will increase the dps across the board, but have not used them so i can't say how much.

Maybe the missing 300 dps?

Worstluck

Using spell power potions (catalyst passive even better next patch) and glyphs, you can get high spell power+combat prayer, etc, i've seen 1700 impale crits. Impale is pretty low mana cost. Funnel health and sap essence generate a lot of ultimate right now, which allows more frequent Veil of Blades usage. Standard plus Veil of Blades, good combo.

Not sure why anyone would think animation weaving or whatever you want to call it would be an exploit. I just started playing like that, actually when i went first went dual wield; hit light attack, then concealed weapon really fast. Felt normal. Wish they would make bosses more melee friendly and buff total stamina for everyone, or give more passives to increase stamina

Nuitar

Traafenn wrote: »

.

Maybe the missing 300 dps?

Magelight, crit potions, siphoning skills generating additional ult, entropy...your missing DPS is a L2P issue, not a class issue

poodlemasterb16_ESO

My level 20 Alchemist is able to make 300 crit spell and weapon power potions. With the right stuff, that and all of heal, magic and stamina can be made as a one potion. Takes my level 24 witch to about 40% from 4% or so in critical likeliness.

I just learned what animation weaving is. I've done it since the beta it seems.

silent88b14_ESO

An explanation of animation 'weaving' on Tamriel Foundry

silent88b14_ESO

Basically, as I understand it, if you initiate an 'instant' you can trigger another skill before the animation completes for that light attack. Since there is supposed to be no global cooldown (except maybe on the Templars jabs) the duration of animations is the only cooldown. Now, some moves like your interrupts (holding block/right mouse button and hitting attack/left mouse button) overrides everything else. But a light attack with a weapon is supposed to be instant. Weaving is triggering another skill before the animation of the instant finishes. This is said to increase your dps.

vicNBitis

And just to point out this exploit is not only 6 weeks old. Here's the earliest mention of it my google-fu could find and it's from 3/05.

http://www.tesoelite.com/forums/threads/max-your-damage-but-how-look-here.889/

OkieDokie

Comaetilico wrote: »

2) hom much power do you have? (you should be over 130 only with equip... prior to buff/consumable) what consumable are you using? (magika and health food are a must for trials and magika recovery + spellpower + spell critIs is what you should be using during trials) is your target debuffed? (we'r talking about the dps generated in a 12 man group... so you have to take into account buff and debuff from other sources than you alone) what weapon do you have equipped? (resto staff is what you should be using for 10% additional damage at full health)


4) just to begin with... you have at least 8/9% weapon crit... 2% from the assassination passive (assuming you only have impale in your bar... yep the passive is bugged... but the bug in the display in character page.. it is working you simply don't see the correct number)... 6/7% (based on the weapon being purple or gold rarity) from your weapon precise trait... add an additional 5% if you use the thief... an additional 7% you can get from PvP buff... and if you use a dedicated exeution bar (like many sorc do) you can get even higher crit rate... so you can get from a minimum of 8% (purple weapon and only impale) to a maximum of 31% (in a full assassination bar... probably not the optimal setup but you can squeze at least a couple assassination skill in this bar)... for the basic damage see point 2... especialy the power and resto staff are quite heavy in the damage output on skill as this...


again... if YOU can't get a result it doesn't mean that that result can't be achived ^^

How do you get over 130 spell power without potions? Base + 30 from jewelry enchants (gold vr 5-7?) + increase with magicka will not get you there (I might be wrong or it is not showing as it should on my display).

I don't think a bar for assassination skills is viable.

zenmogwai

I don't use this build. I still hope the class can be played without light armor and a staff. So I don't understand how you can "spam" your ult with "near 100% up time"?

I PvP almost entirely and I have tried lots of different skills on my bar. Even if I sit back and spam cripple and funnel health into a zerg there is no way I get 200 ult every 12 secs like someone in here said. What do I need to do differently to get this much ult?

Worstluck

zenmogwai wrote: »

I don't use this build. I still hope the class can be played without light armor and a staff. So I don't understand how you can "spam" your ult with "near 100% up time"?

I PvP almost entirely and I have tried lots of different skills on my bar. Even if I sit back and spam cripple and funnel health into a zerg there is no way I get 200 ult every 12 secs like someone in here said. What do I need to do differently to get this much ult?

In pvp you can use Soul Harvest ultimate on your dps kill kill bar; gives you extra ult from getting kills. Idk about every 12 seconds, but you can build ult pretty fast if you are getting kills. Switch to second bar, use that ult (soul strike my fav weeee, veil of blades, w/e).

In pve, you just need to use Sap Essence, along with Funnel Health and Shades (the morph with two shades, you build ultimate from healing the shades), throw in Siphoning Strikes. Use w/e weapon you want. Spam Veil of Blades or Vamp ult if you have it.

edit: i should add, if you are ok with addons use something that shows ultimate amount or %...ultimate is the key

kitsinni

This build does work very well I play it myself. I was surprised to find how competitive DW builds were once I go to craglorn also.

khele23eb17_ESO

Nuitar wrote: »

Traafenn wrote: »

.

Maybe the missing 300 dps?

Magelight, crit potions, siphoning skills generating additional ult, entropy...your missing DPS is a L2P issue, not a class issue

Everything thats been written here is a class issue as it shows that the only way to play at endgame as a NB is to become a highly specialized cloth/staff caster. Tho you could make an argument for it being a general balance issue affecting all classes rather than just a NB issue.

Reevster

Arreyanne wrote: »

Nuitar wrote: »

***snip*** but a good caster NB***SNIP***

And there in lies the entire problem with this game

Staff or go home

There can be only one...............either melee is too powerful or Magic is too powerful, a reoccurring theme in MMOs , Just live with it , ask for upgrades if need be , but there will never ever be a "balanced" system so to speak, always will have some one saying this and that about either or .


But there are those who don't say anything and just play their class with or without their perceived flaws.

More people should do this.....

Worstluck

Melee needs AoE. Cleave and Whirlwind don't cut it. !h/shield has none. Maybe if you equip a melee weapon and use Siphoning Strikes, the damage reduction would be gone or very small, that way we could you could use more stamina abilities. Nightblades need more stamina period imo. Heavy armor 5 piece could increase melee damage; let melee users take more damage using some heavy. Medium armor could use changes, not sure what.