Thank you for the diversity

hk11

I thought this was a sarcastic thread, but I see now it's a thread for Russians.

CTraveler

I'm loving that ESO's representing same-sex couples in the game. I know a few gay people IRL, and it brings a smile to my face each time to see that they're actually representing it well in the game. They're not forcing it as a "Hey! Look! looK herE!" Thing like you tend to see on TV, but actually just writing these characters as people, as they should be.

That's really one of ESO's strengths, is it's character development and writing. Every time I hit a heart-wrenching quest, I want to give the writer my thanks.

Hadria

I like that I see mud crabs and other wild life eating dead things on shores.

MaxBat

JD2013 wrote: »

Whilst I agree to a certain point, there are parts of the world where women and indeed gays and lesbians are indeed fighting for their dignity and in some cases, merely to stay alive.

Agreed. There is nothing any post I made in this thread or any thread on this forum or any other forum that contradicts that statement in any way.

Fleymark

robacooperb16_ESO wrote: »

concobar wrote: »

See, this is a perfect example of the problem... I say people dont want to hear about your sex life, what ever it may be...

Which is one of the standard "dog-whistles" I here from certain corners. It's somewhat akin to the standard "I'm not racist but..." line.

You say I should die and call me names...

Not you, but bigots like you. See big difference, larger scale and all. Personally I'd be more than happy to see the bigotry/ignorance/hate die and not the person. But sadly I suspect folks like you and @Fleymark won't change until you leave this mortal coil.

I'm sure this may be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but not getting all schoolgirl giggly over politically correct depictions of characters in a video game and finding it amusing that others do isn't the same thing as being racist, a bigot, hater, etc etc...whatever other label you winners want to attach to people you don't know simply because they think you and those like you are stooges and find it entertaining calling you out on it.

It's not that we don't care about these issues in the real world. You would probably be shocked to learn my feelings on these subjects. Which I would be happy to share, except it's reasonably inappropriate on a gaming message board, just like you and a couple of others spewing your politics in this thread.

It's that people like you are clowns for the amusement of people like us. LOL

Icy

Soooo, back on topic. Does anyone else have anymore great examples of gender diversity in Tamriel as created by ZoS? Any examples of male characters in non-traditional roles?

And how does seeing yourself reflected in the games you play (or not reflected) affect how you feel about them?

concobar

robacooperb16_ESO wrote: »

concobar wrote: »

See, this is a perfect example of the problem... I say people dont want to hear about your sex life, what ever it may be...

Which is one of the standard "dog-whistles" I here from certain corners. It's somewhat akin to the standard "I'm not racist but..." line.

You say I should die and call me names...

Not you, but bigots like you. See big difference, larger scale and all. Personally I'd be more than happy to see the bigotry/ignorance/hate die and not the person. But sadly I suspect folks like you and @Fleymark won't change until you leave this mortal coil.

Not you but people like you??? really??? You have used all the typical go to PC moves to stifle debate. I disagree with you therefor I am a bigot or a racist or both. I disagree with you therefor I hate you...

I do not hate anyone at all but I also tire of your agenda. It must be very strange to define ones self by whose junk you play with.

You know what would be nice to see? My passives working as intended. Mistform unfucked... ect ect.

Noctisse

Thing is...why thank Zenimax for that, instead of Bethesda?
Elder Scrolls games have pretty much always been like this if you think about it.
It's made obvious even in the books found in previous games, so it's really nothing new.

ZOS_CarolusS

Greetings!
This is a reminder, that it is okay to disagree and debate, but please keep all disagreements civil, constructive and on-topic. Should this thread derail again, we will be forced to close it.
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Icy

Hey @‌Noctisse I was thanking Zenimax for this game ^_^ 'cause it's their forum.

I'll thank Bethesda later for the great diversity in the other Elder Scrolls games (at least since Morrowind, which is when I started playing them).

Noctisse

Icy wrote: »

Hey @‌Noctisse I was thanking Zenimax for this game ^_^ 'cause it's their forum.

I'll thank Bethesda later for the great diversity in the other Elder Scrolls games (at least since Morrowind, which is when I started playing them).

Ok, I guess that makes sense

robacooperb16_ESO

concobar wrote: »

Not you but people like you??? really??? You have used all the typical go to PC moves to stifle debate. I disagree with you therefor I am a bigot or a racist or both. I disagree with you therefor I hate you...

I do not hate anyone at all but I also tire of your agenda. It must be very strange to define ones self by whose junk you play with.

Typical go to PC moves? My agenda?

Yep thanks for proving that you are exactly the creature I thought you were.

Look I'm sorry if seeing or hearing about people that don't fit your distorted world view exist in game. It must be very troubling for you to be confronted with these people performing roles you don't think they have a right to, or being interested in junk you don't believe they should. I can understand that being exposed to this reflection of the realities of the real world may be disconcerting for you.

So I apologize that there are people in game like my sister who prefers to play with the junk she is most familiar with, or my old driver who prefers the experience the junk of pretty much everyone.

Perhaps you could put in a petition that Zenimax remove these displays from the game since it offends you, but publically stating that you are bothered by it or are bothered by those defending it (for their agenda or whatnot) will continue to see you called out for what you are.

Icy

Soooo, back on topic (again, and so the thread is not locked). Does anyone else have anymore great examples of gender diversity in Tamriel as created by ZoS? Any examples of male characters in non-traditional roles?

And how does seeing yourself reflected in the games you play (or not reflected) affect how you feel about them?

Brittany_Joy

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

I liked this one part where a female kahjit had a crush on a female dunmer and she kept trying to show her affection by bringing her dead skeevers, rubbing her head up against her, etc.

Lol where is this NPC?

Natjur

In game there is are female/female and male/male relationships which is all cool.

But Argonian/Khajiit relationships.... How does that even work, one is cold blooded and lays eggs, the other is a CAT that eats lizards.....

Icy

Natjur wrote: »

Argonian/Khajiit relationships.... How does that even work, one is cold blooded and lays eggs, the other is a CAT that eats lizards...

Perhaps they're just really, really, really good friends. Really good.

HorsePhysics

There's one lesbian couple somewhere in Stonefalls, I forget where.

Not sure if this counts, but there is that one Nord in Windhelm with a crush on an argonian. (They're by the stables) You get some hilarious comments when you talk to the Argonian.

Beerbong_Ginn

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

I liked this one part where a female kahjit had a crush on a female dunmer and she kept trying to show her affection by bringing her dead skeevers, rubbing her head up against her, etc.

Lol where is this NPC?

Eastmarch or Riften; I forget which, but I think it's Eastmarch. Definitely in Skyrim.

Icy

Yep, that one is Eastmarch in Windhelm (having just come from there ^_^). The Argonian-Dunmer couple is in Shadowfen, with a really great big-ish questline around them.

HorsePhysics

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

I liked this one part where a female kahjit had a crush on a female dunmer and she kept trying to show her affection by bringing her dead skeevers, rubbing her head up against her, etc.

Lol where is this NPC?

Eastmarch or Riften; I forget which, but I think it's Eastmarch. Definitely in Skyrim.

Actually, it's in coldharbour. The kahjiit was one of the merchants there

Korozenn

I love the diversity in this game, too.

Actually, I think it was something that I missed in Skyrim. In TESV, there was always this separating element to characters in the game where they would clearly state their own biased points of view. While it added to the overall setting of the game between the war with the Imperials and Stormcloaks, there was rarely a middle-ground with them, and other times the comments that characters would make would just be plain rude and snarky, even if you were the race of said characters.

While that type of inter-racial prejudice is present in this game and other TES games most certainly, it's clear that ZeniMax put a lot of effort into establishing character backgrounds and the such so that they aren't as 'one-trick-pony' as they were in previous TES games a good amount of the time, which is highly commendable given the sheer size of the game.

Hope we see characters (already existing or future characters) even more fleshed-out as times go on, especially in your dialogue with them. The more I hear about the justice system, the more I look forward to it: something as game-changing as that being added into the mix of actions you perform in the environment (breaking into houses, stealing trinkets, assaulting/murdering an NPC in a town, etc.) can really change the way that you perceive the game world while in your character's boots.

Beerbong_Ginn

HorsePhysics wrote: »

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Beerbong_Ginn wrote: »

I liked this one part where a female kahjit had a crush on a female dunmer and she kept trying to show her affection by bringing her dead skeevers, rubbing her head up against her, etc.

Lol where is this NPC?

Eastmarch or Riften; I forget which, but I think it's Eastmarch. Definitely in Skyrim.

Actually, it's in coldharbour. The kahjiit was one of the merchants there

Ah thanks. I would have gone back to look and gone nuts.

ExiledKhallisi

Gayyyyyyyyyyyyyy....jk lol to each their own but seriously if I was living in tamriel the thought of mating with an orc or lizard or cat would be a whole to much strange for me. IRL race isn't this same issue. IRL we are all human be it black white Asian Hispanic etc... but in tamriel they are completely different species which is pretty bizarre.

Cogo

@Icy

Thanks alot for a great thread! I agree completely. And when you look at Zenimax plans for the future, both close and longer, it can only get better!

Oh and Windhelm is by FAR one of my favorite places so far. Have fun!

Komma

It's nice how you get to know the npc's. Some you see and work with on several different quests along your journey and not just the big quest lines but the side quests also. I'll admit there are many quests that I skip through the story but some just grab you and pull you in and you cant wait to see how it turns out. Very well done!

Purple_Prophet

MaxBat wrote: »

bean19 wrote: »

I agree with you that this has no effect on sales, but I bet it has a very real effect on gay kids who are told that there is something wrong with them by their families and/or religions. I also think it has an effect on girls who see the heroes and leaders in this game are not all men. Positive role models in art are a big deal for kids and how they view their self-worth.

Eventually, I hope you're right that this isn't a big deal and that we only remark on games when they don't have strong messages of diversity, but we aren't there yet. . . and while I agree that ZeniMax isn't risking their safety like Rosa Parks, the Freedom Riders, or thousands of gay men and women who have chosen to live their lives out and proud in the past decades filled with hate and often violence, it's still a really cool thing to do. If they get just one gay kid to not hurt his/herself because this game shows them that they are not the outsider their family or church tells them they are, then it's awesome.

My comment was directed to the suggestion that Zenimax made some (significant) sacrifice in sales by either putting this content in the game or going for a mature rating. Like I said ... Meh.

As someone who has been active in the movement to eliminate gender-based discrimination in employment and education settings, and as someone who was once blasted on the Bethesda forum for daring to suggest there was a gender bias in certain Bethesda titles (very true story), I'm happy to see (1) more diversity in relationships and (2) stronger and more realistically intelligent women in TESO (and in Skyrim, too). In a industry long dominated by men, this is a refreshing change.

But do I think Zeni made a huge sacrifice for the equal rights movement? No. Sorry, I'm just not seeing it. Glad the content is there, but - as I said - it's not like they're an African-American woman fighting for her human dignity.

I agree with you on a lot of your points but this quote from you " it's not like they're an African-American woman fighting for her human dignity" confuses me. What exactly is halting human dignity for an African-American women?

Icy

Cogo wrote: »

Oh and Windhelm is by FAR one of my favorite places so far. Have fun!

I enjoyed Windhelm, but for me Shadowfen was the standout. I've JUST entered The Rift, and I'm looking forward to visiting Riften again (that was home base for me in Skyrim).

In Windhelm you can overhear one of the characters near the stable wanting to go hit on the Argonian who works there. And in the crafting hall one of the Nords says the one of the Dunmer standing nearby is "dreamy" ^_^.

Fleymark

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Icy

Such a shame. This was a thread to congratulate ZoS on doing a great job with gender representation IN-GAME because this is a game forum and the best place to talk about things that happen IN-GAME.

There are other forums to talk about things that happen in that other MMO we all play called RL.

@ZOS_CarolusS could you close this thread?

Purple_Prophet

Icy wrote: »

Such a shame. This was a thread to congratulate ZoS on doing a great job with gender representation IN-GAME because this is a game forum and the best place to talk about things that happen IN-GAME.

There are other forums to talk about things that happen in that other MMO we all play called RL.

@ZOS_CarolusS could you close this thread?

You should have known an argument was incoming the moment you made this thead.