Fix melee

KrisFahring

Melee damage in this game is stupid. with a vet rain 1 weapon 128 damage I am hitting about as hard as my level 28 healer does. Good job there nice work on balance I think a monkey flinging poo would have been closer to the mark than what is currently coded in this game.

I refuse to play a noob caster class. You ever wonder why every tom *** and harry plays a caster in new games? It'd because people can't figure out how to code it without screwing the gaming population over until they figure it out.

Nice to know the trend has remained the same in this game.

BYE!

Ninnghizhidda

In almost all games I have tried in recent years (MMOs) melee (and in general physical) classes are at a severe disadvantage compared to caster / magic user classes. Always wondered why...

I guess, because it is "fashionable" to stay a few miles away, kite, hide etc, while bombarding and annihilating everything at minimal cost and harm.

Very few games have managed or made conscious attempts to "balance" things out. I was hoping ESO, with an awesome history of The Elder Scrolls games behind it, would be an exemplary game, that would also excel in this department.

Sadly, it is not. On the contrary, is becoming quite a farce (if you can call it) to see everyone and their granny, putting on light armour, waving a staff and hurling a volley of whatever powerful spells from 2 screens away (aoes included) toasting everything in the way, ah, while maintaining seemingly endless pools of magicka (the fuel for their destructive force).

Very well done!

KrisFahring

If I have to stand next to the boss I should be able to hurt him. With a big two handed weapon carving chucks of it off at a time would be nice but I think I do the same damage with a 1 hander... If it takes me 2.5 seconds to swing this thing I think I should hit it harder than -50 of weapon damage. I also miss moving targets a lot, this is a good mechanism imo but if you aim a bow fro ma mile away and turn 180 degrees and fire you will still hit the target every time.

I went into my first vet dungeon and the 2nd or 3rd boss literally pained the floor with fire so melee couldn't even get close enough to hit it. Also they employed the chicken run tanking strategy in Diablo... oh wait Diablo doesn't have a tanking class and yet they have to kite just as much as a "so called" tank in this game. It's laughable and a bit sad. If you are going to have a tank in the game give them some tanking abilities maybe a threat mechanism to help manage the adds.

On my healer I spend about 75% of dungeons running away fro the 2 or 3 adds that the tank was not able to initially agro. This is a joke. Hire someone who can understand the needs of tanking to your development team. I hate having the mage class devs dictate what fun it would be to see the tanks run from EVERY FIGHT.

nerevarine1138

Sounds like you need to figure out how melee works. My main Nightblade is dual-wield/bow (with the emphasis on dual-wielding), and I have no problem taking enemies down quickly.

KrisFahring

You are right having 2 weapons with 100 damage is better than having 1 two handed weapon with 100 damage. Night blade damage is also magical damage unless you are not use any of your abilities.

nerevarine1138

KrisFahring wrote: »

You are right having 2 weapons with 100 damage is better than having 1 two handed weapon with 100 damage. Night blade damage is also magical damage unless you are not use any of your abilities.

After my initial sneak-attacks, my main sources of damage are my weapon attacks/skills.

And yes, if you have a 2h weapon with the same exact damage value as my dual-wield weapons, I'll probably out-damage you. Of course, since your 2h weapon does more base damage than any equivalent 1h weapon (same level, same quality), you should be hitting the same base damage I do with weapon attacks. Your skills may do less single-target damage, since 2h excels at AoE, but that's one of the tradeoffs you make.

KrisFahring

Two handed weapons should be doing double damage, they are not currently.

nerevarine1138

KrisFahring wrote: »

Two handed weapons should be doing double damage, they are not currently.

No. That would be ridiculous.

KrisFahring

Why? It takes twice as long to swing it one time why is that wrong?

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

2h is more about sustaining vs burning someone down. Couples very nicely with a Templar.

Hilgara

delete, wrong comment

KrisFahring

The same time i

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

2h is more about sustaining vs burning someone down. Couples very nicely with a Templar.

I am frustrated with the lack of damage though. it's laughable in comparison. Just for *** and giggles I put on an inferno staff with all of 5 skill level and I was hitting just as hard as my two handed weapon was... with 50 skill level. Something is not right.

nerevarine1138

KrisFahring wrote: »

Why? It takes twice as long to swing it one time why is that wrong?

1) It doesn't take twice as long to swing.
2) That's not how damage is calculated/balanced.
3) Your weapon skill level doesn't affect your damage output from regular weapon strikes.

Quaesivi

Also something funny I have found out today, apparently V12 Dual Wielding has lower damage somehow. I have switched from V10 purple swords to V12 yellow swords and somehow my DPS dropped, and I am using the same skillset. My attacks, at least on Flurry, hits roughly 10% less damage than what the tooltip shows. It shows 109 to 277 damage, however my hits are 100 to 250, anyone else experienced this ridiculousness? I have tried this on various mobs, from V1 Mudcrabs to V11 Boar/Hog looking things in Craglorn. Same weapons (swords), same traits, same skill level, and HIGHER stamina level, yet on same rotation I have lower damage than I had at V10 with lower quality weapons, what gives? And to note, my fiery DK class skills, Unstable Flame, Engulfing Flames and Whip hits for HIGHER damage than what is shown on the tooltip. Did melee somehow receive a stealth nerf or my character is bugged? OR did creatures get buffed again?

frwinters_ESO

I use a sword and shield as a NB and a Bow for ranged. Melee is my favorite and i kill things. I am happy why cant you be happy to?

KrisFahring

I am talking about two handed dps, anyone with actual experience with this type of DPS have anything useful to add?

LordEcks

KrisFahring wrote: »

I am talking about two handed dps, anyone with actual experience with this type of DPS have anything useful to add?

Two handed DPS has much more control and utility. For single target DPS your going to lose out to Dual Wield, this is by design. Inherent splash damage and IMO much more useful utilities (shields, ultimate regen, a charge, a stun to name a few) are where 2H shine.

It seems like your dead set on using 2H, but in the end it didnt deliver what you wanted it to. Are you simply not interested in switching weapons?

KrisFahring

News: Someone from the mage dev department read my post and now I can't use any melee attacks on any of my characters. It's weird that this happens the day i call BS on the melee problem isn't it?

Darastix

to me the problem with melee is the extreme damage dungeon bosses do in one hit, a tank should not have to kite 100% of the time, there should be some responce time as your taking damage to pop a potion,dodge or run back so the off tank can take over for a few mins.

for example the first boss in direfrost keep, was nearly one shoting me at level 38 with better that average for my level and almost 2k health. its sad when kiting is the new tanking.

Khivas_Carrick

Ok, some legit issues with melee, yes, but there is also a bit of ignorance in this thread, let me try to clear it up and pray that I don't get flamed for doing so:

1) 2Handers do not swing twice as slow as 1handed weapons, that is a lie. It's more like 1.2x Slower, and heavy attacks seem to be the same no matter what you're swinging, and staffs actually seem to be the slowest in that regard.

2) However, 2Handers may do more damage than a 1handed or a set of 1handers, the extra damage should be a little higher, but sure as hell not double. God no. 1.1 seems to be how it is now, so if that isn't enough, maybe 1.2x would be the right amount.

3) To answer this:

LordEcks wrote: »

KrisFahring wrote: »

I am talking about two handed dps, anyone with actual experience with this type of DPS have anything useful to add?

Two handed DPS has much more control and utility. For single target DPS your going to lose out to Dual Wield, this is by design. Inherent splash damage and IMO much more useful utilities (shields, ultimate regen, a charge, a stun to name a few) are where 2H shine.

It seems like your dead set on using 2H, but in the end it didnt deliver what you wanted it to. Are you simply not interested in switching weapons?

IDK about him but I sure the hell ain't. I'll use a bow, mainly because I need a ranged secondary just in case and bows are cool (Green Arrow and Hawkeye all day err'day baybayyy) but for melee it's 2H or bust. Or, I should say, for my Templar main, it's 2Hander or bust. If I was a nightblade or a sorc I'd go Dual Wielding, but even then idk if I'd want to, I'm just that attached to 2h.

THAT SAID,

4) I actually let me 2H be a back up to my class skills, as a support dps hybrid I was viable as *** with Biting Jabs, and tbh in a group I'm still viable even though BJabs is still busted atm, I've managed to get some semi-decent sustained DPS going via Vampire's Bane, Purifying Light (which was there the first time), Executioner, and Critical Rush. My fifth slot is set to whatever support skill that is needed at the time, ranging from Repentance to Honor The Guard to Rune Focus (I think that's the name, I don't use it nearly often enough lol)

KrisFahring

It's the caster developers that hate melee that have designed this dumbas method of tanking. Most people don't understand what a tank is suppose to do so when you get a room for a idiots who let the monkey fling poo instead of actually designing a working method of tanking, we see this.

Melee is the hardest thing to balance according to every developer in every game because they want to be the mage blowing the world up from miles away... They cannot rub 2 brain cells together and use a working method from many different games out there.

News: "The Chicken Run" is already being used you are not the first because Diablo employed it months before you did.

KrisFahring

Khivas_Carrick

You may be right but right now no single target attacks are working in game on any class or character until they fix this *** it's broken.

Zarkaz

Melee is fine,physical weapons are broken. Do not confuse melee and physical weapon damage.
Example- Biting Jabs is magickal templar skill but it works as melee and benefits from melee multipliers, but unlike weapon it doesn't use physical multipliers.

KrisFahring

That makes sense. as a two handed dps my main attack is the swing and not any of my abilities.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

Aenthel wrote: »

Also something funny I have found out today, apparently V12 Dual Wielding has lower damage somehow. I have switched from V10 purple swords to V12 yellow swords and somehow my DPS dropped, and I am using the same skillset. My attacks, at least on Flurry, hits roughly 10% less damage than what the tooltip shows. It shows 109 to 277 damage, however my hits are 100 to 250, anyone else experienced this ridiculousness? I have tried this on various mobs, from V1 Mudcrabs to V11 Boar/Hog looking things in Craglorn. Same weapons (swords), same traits, same skill level, and HIGHER stamina level, yet on same rotation I have lower damage than I had at V10 with lower quality weapons, what gives? And to note, my fiery DK class skills, Unstable Flame, Engulfing Flames and Whip hits for HIGHER damage than what is shown on the tooltip. Did melee somehow receive a stealth nerf or my character is bugged? OR did creatures get buffed again?

Should try to get a screen cap or two of this.

If you log an in game bug report and can get it looked at by a dev it might solve some of the woes people have had with melee weapon damage.

Khivas_Carrick

Waaaaait wait wait wait I may have misunderstood this thread's intent: Physical Weapon attacks themselves aren't working? Like, you can't target/hit things? If that's true, that would explain SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much.