VR 1 - 10: An error and a solution

Emian

So I believe it is safe to say the initial design of the game was level 1 - 50 then Adventure zone patches.

From what I've heard and read VR 1 - 10 came about because some players wanted to experience all the content without rolling alts.

There are three major negative by-products to this late in the day decision:

1) The VR 1-10 content didn't have enough time and thought put into it to make it anything other than a crowbarred fix for the people complaining, and (again from what I have read and heard) the reward in terms of loot, provision finds, skill points (or lack thereof) H/M/S points (lack thereof) and fundamentally messing with the narrative of alliances in the story

2) People who want to play at least 3 different classes on different alliances to experience the stories as well as different alliances, are now forced to repeat content - and there is very little more mind rotting than doing that.

3) For the long term life of the game, both with regards to returning players and new players, they are faced with having to do the 'whole' content 3 times to get to the adventure zones which are the next 'actual' stages of the game. To even get to first adventure zone, and the first 'proper' level rises (currently VR11 & VR12) they pretty much have to play all 3 alliance zones in full. That will take 3 times the time it should have taken before they even begin higher level catch up. That is terribly off putting.

WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED...

I get that some people wanted to experience all the content without rolling alts. That said, in WOW rolling Horde for Horde content and Alliance for Alliance content seemed sensible and to work fine.

But let's pander to that mentality. Upon reaching level 50, and finishing the content of the initial alliance, all the VR dungeons should have been opened at once to the level 50s. Additionally, the other alliance zones should have been opened at VR difficulty level, but consistent VR difficulty level throughout all zones.

Rewards for completing quests were loot and gold, and finding provisioning items wouldn't be an issue as they were already geared towards level 50.

BUT THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO ADDITIONAL LEVELS AND NO EXPERIENCE.

That was the fundamental flaw in the decision.

It would have meant all level 50s would have had 2 whole alliance zones to explore without needing to constantly upgrade gear at a difficulty level above 1 to 50.

It would have meant people who wanted to experience each alliance zone as a member of that alliance would have been able to, and when the adventure zones came they could level up all 3 characters through the new levels or only one if they wanted but without having had to have played the entirity of ALL the content 3 times already.

It would mean that new players or returning players would be able to jump into the new content without having to slog through 2 alliance zones if they don't want to for time or immersion reasons.

SOLUTION:

The solution is simple. All VR characters get returned to level 50 (VR 0) or VR 1/2 if they have levelled already.

Experience is removed from the other alliance zones at VR level and levels 1 to 10 are removed.

All players (and this is contentious I guess, but very sensible for the long term health of the game) are given 1 month free play as compensation. In addition some gold for each VR level they have lost.

This will assuage people who spent time levelling. This may persuade people who have left to return and try again given the VR grind is now optional not mandatory, or that alts are now viable.

This will also compensate through a big gesture of good will for the errors, bugs, hashes and *** ups made to date.

but most importantly, this will reduce the HUGE wall put in front of new players or players wanting to return: the tripling of mandatory content before you even get to the Adventure zones, and the negating of being able to play how we want because a lot of people WANT to play the 3 alliances as members of those alliances.

It also means all the content is available to everyone on a single character if they choose to do it. It is optional.

And additionally, it makes level 50 a tier cap for gear until progression into Craglorn is attempted.

THE FUTURE

Is this going to happen? Who knows. Unlikely as business short termism will scream 'loss of one month of subs', but as much as I am enjoying this game, I am doing so because I haven't reached the VR zones yet. My fear isn't the difficulty level, I really looked forward to the challenge. My fear is 2 more alliance zones of questing out of context of my characters narrative, and full repetition of the entire process if I want to play a DK tank or a Sorceror DPS, both of which I do.

My plan is to try and circumnavigate this enforced path to what was initially meant to be the VR zone (Craglorn) so that I can play these 2 alts, but I still have to face the wall of VR1-10 which was neither originally intended, nor desireable game design, simply because some people didn't want alts. So perhaps I will simply leave. I have till WOD to decide in my life.

I want to stay, but soulless grind doesn't do it for me. Story advancement, character advancement, group play (dungeons and raids) and PvP without being gimped by not being top VR level are what I want to experience.

monden1980b16_ESO

/signed

(wanted to play PvP but doing PvE since 2 months now... actually VR2)

Rylana

You take away my VR12 and you lose my sub.

ferzalrwb17_ESO

I like it as it is in terms of VR content. Yes it takes a long time to reach level cap but, if it didn't, people would whine about that too.

The only problem I have is that pvp is pointless because of the failed scaling. The real way to spice that, and the whole game, up is to be able to be statistically competitive in pvp from level 10 and make pvp a viable levelling alternative (with on/off switches for those who want to XP in pve as well as pvp).

Currently as a low level in pvp you're limited by lack of skills and skill progression which is ok but you're also absolutely outclassed statistically which means you're basically useless. The scaling is woeful. Most (not all now) of the VR10's just power-ground to get there so I don't think they would have a leg to stand on if they complained about equality in statistics. Most people have been out there "earning" their level far longer than most of them who AOE-smashed mobs in a few designated spots for 20 hours.

I can't imagine anyone's going to complain if they face opponents statistically comparable but who are lacking skills and morphs with which to fight. You don't want to create yet another elite pvp environment where only those who got there first, set the jargon, found the exploits etc.. can bully new talent out. And you need an alternative to the grind for alts. So... get that PVP scaling sorted.

monden1980b16_ESO

Rylana wrote: »

You take away my VR12 and you lose my sub.

If they add new content and more Vetaran Ranks before I even reach VR5, they will loose my sub.

Not everyone enjoys PvE (grinding or questing). Some (like me) just want to have a enjoyable PvP experience (enjoyable = not being smashed into the ground by VR12). Others just don't have that much time on their hands (about 3 hours per day for me, which is quite much).

If they keep up with the speed of adding new content and VRs, the gap between hardcore players and casuals will open up further (in PvE is doesn't matter, low-to-mid-level and VR content is both enjoyable for those who like PvE... PvP interested players will become fed up with the grind to catch up and stay somewhat competitive)

Just increasing XP rewards for PvP is not enough... you stiil fall behind concerning loot and skill points compared to players that play 10+ hours per day, have enough time to grind though PvE *AND* play PvP and are already VR12.

Prettiboi

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

You take away my VR12 and you lose my sub.

If they add new content and more Vetaran Ranks before I even reach VR5, they will loose my sub.

Not everyone enjoys PvE (grinding or questing). Some (like me) just want to have a enjoyable PvP experience (enjoyable = not being smashed into the ground by VR12). Others just don't have that much time on their hands (about 3 hours per day for me, which is quite much).

If they keep up with the speed of adding new content and VRs, the gap between hardcore players and casuals will open up further (in PvE is doesn't matter, low-to-mid-level and VR content is both enjoyable for those who like PvE... PvP interested players will become fed up with the grind to catch up and stay somewhat competitive)

Just increasing XP rewards for PvP is not enough... you stiil fall behind concerning loot and skill points compared to players that play 10+ hours per day, have enough time to grind though PvE *AND* play PvP and are already VR12.

So if you put in 3 hours a day, and I put in 10+ hours per day, I shouldn't have an advantage over you? Are you oblivious to your own bias?

Mephos

Not everyone enjoys PvE (grinding or questing). Some (like me) just want to have a enjoyable PvP experience (enjoyable = not being smashed into the ground by VR12).

after lvl 50 the difference between vet1 pvp and vet12 pvp is VERY low. the only difference is between lvl 1-49 and 50+

you can start pvp anytime in that moment without having a big downside. to force you to grind to VET12 just to get the 100% max out of your character shows only that you are not a "real" pvp player but just someone who wants to dominate others with gear advantage.

chrisb16_ESO160

/Signed

Great post, and great idea

Zubba

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

/signed

(wanted to play PvP but doing PvE since 2 months now... actually VR2)

I am doing what you wanted, and enjoying alot.

jeevin

These VR levels are just killing the game for me. I hit VR1 expecting to be able to pvp and do some endgame, craft my gear ect. To then learn that before I can do any of these things effectively I'll be forced to play the opposing factions and hit VR10, it's just rubbish. Now I'm half way at VR5(still squishy in pvp) they raise the level cap to VR12. Well done guys!

Whats the point of getting to VR12 and crafting my awesome gear if the cap is only going to get lifted again. Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?

With all the problems I need to overlook in this game, this is THE deal breaker for me.

PhoenixWing

It will be more boring to do the quests if they do as OP suggested, as loot and gold rewards are not enticing enough. People will still have to endure this boredom in order to get skillpoints from some quests in other factions, or from running to skyshards there without doing any quests.

On topic:
I liked VR ranks as they are now. I have never felt I was leveling at all, just playing the game (except sometimes when I was below level 50 and got killed hard by VR players in Cyrodiil lol). There are many ways to gain the experience points in this game.

I and my friend found ourselves alternating between PvP in Cyrodiil when the keeps are equally shared between 3 factions, and doing quests when we're bored (Quests in Cyrodiil also give you tons of XP too). The difference between VR ranks are really miniscule, that's why we never felt the rush to max our levels.

In my opinion, VR ranks exist for players to have a sense of progression in end-game, but not too huge they are required to max to enjoy all the contents (like PvP).

If you find yourself dying a lot in PvP while you are in VR rank, you need to adjust your skill bars, or try to come up with new strats, because the difference between VR ranks are not that high, really.

monden1980b16_ESO

Prettiboi wrote: »

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

You take away my VR12 and you lose my sub.

If they add new content and more Vetaran Ranks before I even reach VR5, they will loose my sub.

Not everyone enjoys PvE (grinding or questing). Some (like me) just want to have a enjoyable PvP experience (enjoyable = not being smashed into the ground by VR12). Others just don't have that much time on their hands (about 3 hours per day for me, which is quite much).

If they keep up with the speed of adding new content and VRs, the gap between hardcore players and casuals will open up further (in PvE is doesn't matter, low-to-mid-level and VR content is both enjoyable for those who like PvE... PvP interested players will become fed up with the grind to catch up and stay somewhat competitive)

Just increasing XP rewards for PvP is not enough... you stiil fall behind concerning loot and skill points compared to players that play 10+ hours per day, have enough time to grind though PvE *AND* play PvP and are already VR12.

So if you put in 3 hours a day, and I put in 10+ hours per day, I shouldn't have an advantage over you? Are you oblivious to your own bias?

Of course they should have an advantage, but at the moment, it's no fun for me (although, TESO has the most enjoyable PVE actually, it feels like work to get VR10... VR12... or whatever will come)

Mephos wrote: »

Not everyone enjoys PvE (grinding or questing). Some (like me) just want to have a enjoyable PvP experience (enjoyable = not being smashed into the ground by VR12).

after lvl 50 the difference between vet1 pvp and vet12 pvp is VERY low. the only difference is between lvl 1-49 and 50+

you can start pvp anytime in that moment without having a big downside. to force you to grind to VET12 just to get the 100% max out of your character shows only that you are not a "real" pvp player but just someone who wants to dominate others with gear advantage.

I'm not saying I want to dominate other players, I just DON'T WANT TO BE DOMINATED by VR12 players (last time I played PvP about 2 weeks ago, I got torn to pieces by VR10 players as I was VR1).

VR10 has about 10% more HP, magika, stam... armor... damage... compared to a VR1. 10% does not sound that much, but it factors up, making a VR10 by far superior to a VR1 character.

@ Jeevin: I feel with you... TESO just exchanged the item spiral against VR spiral.

Censorious

I got to VR1 and just stopped PvE pretty well entirely.

I'm competitive in PvP and that's all I want. A few percent here and there makes very little difference compared to overall build, skill level, the situation and who's got 50 friends just over the hill that the other guy doesn't know about.

crowfl56

10 hours a day come on , step away from the computer and go outside, and don't give me the song and dance story either.

Prettiboi

jeevin wrote: »

These VR levels are just killing the game for me. I hit VR1 expecting to be able to pvp and do some endgame, craft my gear ect. To then learn that before I can do any of these things effectively I'll be forced to play the opposing factions and hit VR10, it's just rubbish. Now I'm half way at VR5(still squishy in pvp) they raise the level cap to VR12. Well done guys!

Whats the point of getting to VR12 and crafting my awesome gear if the cap is only going to get lifted again. Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?

With all the problems I need to overlook in this game, this is THE deal breaker for me.

You speak as if you don't play MMOs. What do you mean "Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?" Dude, it will never stop. It is supposed to be a never-ending grind. This is so that we will always have something to work towards. If there's no raise to level caps, where the hell is the competition to attain the next best gear? MMOs are all about on-going competition. MMOs are not a charity for everybody to reach max rank and be done with the game.

If you cannot handle the competition, MMOs aren't your game.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

even then just a fistful of player will reach that level cap while the others will just end up having to grind constantly where is the fun in that. Im not against veteran rank... but they should halve if not makes those vet level twice as easyer to get (I don't mind long exp bar but I mind *** overpowered challenge however by the end of MOP I was used to it taking days to level up however this doesn't justify making class build increasingly bad as the level up increase a custom build should be as easy to use in vet as a regular build.)

To resume I don't mind the vet rank but I should not have to use a uber minmaxed boring and skill less class build (critical surge destro staff or dragon knight destro staff for example) or abuse glitch for easier leveling method just because the mob required to level it are utterly overpowered to the point you need a 25 man raid to kill a skeever in vet 10 (well its a little exaggerated but not so far from the truth)

If I play a build since the start of the game up to vet 1 it SHOULD also be viable up to vet 12. Make the ability damage scale better or give the player some actual true power progression so to reflect the mob health and damage rather then give them a small gear boost, there should be veteran level morph to skills in addition to the regular morph.

That or make all new content scaled to veteran 5 at best with new gear etc. so that vet 10 becomes totally optional as it was intended to be and not a must have to continue playing the game. You could also make all vet content easier to proceed trough or give triple reward to all vet player the god knows what you make us loot is hardly even worth the efforts.

There is no such thing as character progression from vet 1 to vet 10 its just a silly gear upgrade... you've stopped playing your character as you intended it to be since vet 1... why do you keep playing this character wich is no longuer yours then if you had to ditch that great sword for a destruction staff just because it is ''more viable'' for farming stupid AI? Go play an alt because vet is not worth doing anyway and will ruin your game experience.

I repeat do make progression... but make it easy to access to. craglorn should have included lower level veteran quest to allow an easyer level cap reach for the slower player. Like idk.. training daily quest?

Drazticulous

Prettiboi wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

These VR levels are just killing the game for me. I hit VR1 expecting to be able to pvp and do some endgame, craft my gear ect. To then learn that before I can do any of these things effectively I'll be forced to play the opposing factions and hit VR10, it's just rubbish. Now I'm half way at VR5(still squishy in pvp) they raise the level cap to VR12. Well done guys!

Whats the point of getting to VR12 and crafting my awesome gear if the cap is only going to get lifted again. Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?

With all the problems I need to overlook in this game, this is THE deal breaker for me.

You speak as if you don't play MMOs. What do you mean "Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?" Dude, it will never stop. It is supposed to be a never-ending grind. This is so that we will always have something to work towards. If there's no raise to level caps, where the hell is the competition to attain the next best gear? MMOs are all about on-going competition. MMOs are not a charity for everybody to reach max rank and be done with the game.

If you cannot handle the competition, MMOs aren't your game.

The competition exploited bugs in order to make it competition for most of us.... roll back all VR12s to VR8 and all will be well.

Purple_Prophet

Drazticulous wrote: »

Prettiboi wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

These VR levels are just killing the game for me. I hit VR1 expecting to be able to pvp and do some endgame, craft my gear ect. To then learn that before I can do any of these things effectively I'll be forced to play the opposing factions and hit VR10, it's just rubbish. Now I'm half way at VR5(still squishy in pvp) they raise the level cap to VR12. Well done guys!

Whats the point of getting to VR12 and crafting my awesome gear if the cap is only going to get lifted again. Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?

With all the problems I need to overlook in this game, this is THE deal breaker for me.

You speak as if you don't play MMOs. What do you mean "Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?" Dude, it will never stop. It is supposed to be a never-ending grind. This is so that we will always have something to work towards. If there's no raise to level caps, where the hell is the competition to attain the next best gear? MMOs are all about on-going competition. MMOs are not a charity for everybody to reach max rank and be done with the game.

If you cannot handle the competition, MMOs aren't your game.

The competition exploited bugs in order to make it competition for most of us.... roll back all VR12s to VR8 and all will be well.

Yea umm...no. A lot of people in my private guild are VR12 and they worked for it. Think before you post a stupid suggestion such as a roll-back.

Drazticulous

Purple_Prophet wrote: »

Drazticulous wrote: »

Prettiboi wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

These VR levels are just killing the game for me. I hit VR1 expecting to be able to pvp and do some endgame, craft my gear ect. To then learn that before I can do any of these things effectively I'll be forced to play the opposing factions and hit VR10, it's just rubbish. Now I'm half way at VR5(still squishy in pvp) they raise the level cap to VR12. Well done guys!

Whats the point of getting to VR12 and crafting my awesome gear if the cap is only going to get lifted again. Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?

With all the problems I need to overlook in this game, this is THE deal breaker for me.

You speak as if you don't play MMOs. What do you mean "Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?" Dude, it will never stop. It is supposed to be a never-ending grind. This is so that we will always have something to work towards. If there's no raise to level caps, where the hell is the competition to attain the next best gear? MMOs are all about on-going competition. MMOs are not a charity for everybody to reach max rank and be done with the game.

If you cannot handle the competition, MMOs aren't your game.

The competition exploited bugs in order to make it competition for most of us.... roll back all VR12s to VR8 and all will be well.

Yea umm...no. A lot of people in my private guild are VR12 and they worked for it. Think before you post a stupid suggestion such as a roll-back.

Might you tip me off how they worked for it? Also please let me know how long it took.

Purple_Prophet

Drazticulous wrote: »

Purple_Prophet wrote: »

Drazticulous wrote: »

Prettiboi wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

These VR levels are just killing the game for me. I hit VR1 expecting to be able to pvp and do some endgame, craft my gear ect. To then learn that before I can do any of these things effectively I'll be forced to play the opposing factions and hit VR10, it's just rubbish. Now I'm half way at VR5(still squishy in pvp) they raise the level cap to VR12. Well done guys!

Whats the point of getting to VR12 and crafting my awesome gear if the cap is only going to get lifted again. Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?

With all the problems I need to overlook in this game, this is THE deal breaker for me.

You speak as if you don't play MMOs. What do you mean "Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?" Dude, it will never stop. It is supposed to be a never-ending grind. This is so that we will always have something to work towards. If there's no raise to level caps, where the hell is the competition to attain the next best gear? MMOs are all about on-going competition. MMOs are not a charity for everybody to reach max rank and be done with the game.

If you cannot handle the competition, MMOs aren't your game.

The competition exploited bugs in order to make it competition for most of us.... roll back all VR12s to VR8 and all will be well.

Yea umm...no. A lot of people in my private guild are VR12 and they worked for it. Think before you post a stupid suggestion such as a roll-back.

Might you tip me off how they worked for it? Also please let me know how long it took.

Simple, we have a private guild of people (around 20) that all use TS3 so we can coordinate and actual get things done. It's amazing how fast and fun the VR leveling experience can be when everyone is focused on the same goal. Just do all the Dungeons, World Bosses, Dolmens, and a little PvP/Grinding here and there and you're done.

Oh, yea it took about 7 or 8 days (like 5 or 6 hours a day) for most to get VR12. I play a lot less and got to VR6 in about 6 days playing 3 hours a day.

Drazticulous

Ok so I see your point.... but there is a should be a way for them to see the speed at which people leveled no? I say this because how else are they going to know how much xp to give the player needed and mobs given?

Kililin

No, i want every single player who defended the VR Grind, while questing @lvl20, to endure the same grind.

Purple_Prophet

Drazticulous wrote: »

Ok so I see your point.... but there should be a way for them to see the speed at which people leveled no? I say this because how else are they going to know how much xp to give the player needed and mobs given?

The only argument I have against that is that this is an MMO where teamwork is a major part of the gaming experience regardless of whether the quest can be done alone. The content such as dungeons and dolmens require you to work with people and they are also the best means of experience.

I understand that a lot of people do not always have others to play with do to entering a new community or having obligations IRL. This is where guilds are a major plus since most have 300+ members all with different progression rates. Use this to find others in a similar position as you and work together. I also strongly recommend PvP even if you think you will be overwhelmed. Just being in a huge group that is organized can definitely make up for lvl difference in most cases plus you can test builds that suit your needs.

Old_Issan

I hate the whole concept of doing every ***** quest, kill every ***** world boss, complete each ***** solo dungeon this game has to offer just to get to VR10 and THEN start to do what i really want......which is PVP.

If i were already VR12 due to exploiting xp mechanics i´d say VR Content is fine, l2p, like a challenge, want everything on a silver plate, blabla.

Each time i turn in my PVP quest and get 1500VP i wanna go and try wildstar.

SeinSchatten

Prettiboi wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

These VR levels are just killing the game for me. I hit VR1 expecting to be able to pvp and do some endgame, craft my gear ect. To then learn that before I can do any of these things effectively I'll be forced to play the opposing factions and hit VR10, it's just rubbish. Now I'm half way at VR5(still squishy in pvp) they raise the level cap to VR12. Well done guys!

Whats the point of getting to VR12 and crafting my awesome gear if the cap is only going to get lifted again. Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?

With all the problems I need to overlook in this game, this is THE deal breaker for me.

You speak as if you don't play MMOs. What do you mean "Where will it stop anyway? VR20? VR50?" Dude, it will never stop. It is supposed to be a never-ending grind. This is so that we will always have something to work towards. If there's no raise to level caps, where the hell is the competition to attain the next best gear? MMOs are all about on-going competition. MMOs are not a charity for everybody to reach max rank and be done with the game.

If you cannot handle the competition, MMOs aren't your game.

Good thing you don't create videogames (and nobody listens to you) or we would be playing Pong on todays computers...

Kathleen.Flynn02b14_ESO

I only have one character, and I wanted it to experience all of the zones. I even asked for this in beta. I also try to at least skim the dialogue because I'm in this for the pve and story, especially since pvp in this is so repetitive. So, as someone who reached VR10 by aiming for 100% completion in each zone, this idea would not make me happy. You know, they put a lot of work into the quests/books/etc. Maybe they actually want you to...read it. They probably assume people will have a main character and a bunch of pack mules/crafting alts.

Emian

except y

Kathleen.Flynn02b14_ESO wrote: »

I only have one character, and I wanted it to experience all of the zones. I even asked for this in beta. I also try to at least skim the dialogue because I'm in this for the pve and story, especially since pvp in this is so repetitive. So, as someone who reached VR10 by aiming for 100% completion in each zone, this idea would not make me happy. You know, they put a lot of work into the quests/books/etc. Maybe they actually want you to...read it. They probably assume people will have a main character and a bunch of pack mules/crafting alts.

except you missed my point. I didn't suggest you couldn't do the other sides, I suggested the were available but gave no XP and thus weren't mandatory. You got what you wanted at the expense of those of us who want to do each alliance on separate characters without having to repeat them all 3 times. Whereas my suggestion meant we would all get what we wanted and could each play our own way.

And for the long term health of the game it removes a needless wall to Adventure Zone content.

aleister

Prettiboi wrote: »

So if you put in 3 hours a day, and I put in 10+ hours per day, I shouldn't have an advantage over you? Are you oblivious to your own bias?

No. Advantage/progression should not be a raw function of time spent. I thought we got past this years ago.

Bars

tbh I think we are @ the end of this genre ,its just the same old thing but a new name, gear grind/ VR grind its just not fun imho

AshTal

OP just can not work too many people have power played through the other 2 alliances to get VR 10 or VR12. Doesn't mean I like the cheap content add but I cant see getting a fix. I completely agree I would have played all 3 alliances just for the story. I am not likely to do that now (maybe in 6 months) because I am already going to have to play all 3 anyway to get my main to VET 10.
I would say we need another option to get VR10 - PvP does not count because the grind is too slow and now it is crawling with VR 12's a VR 1 is cannon fodder.
However I already know we will not be getting anything to benefit most players, maybe when I do a play through as a Breton in the Daggerfall Alliance (Instead of my Pact Argonian) I might get a few different options in conversation but right now not enough to make me want to do it.

a_thielen_ESO

Agree with OP. Having power differences past level 50 is a bad move. The people with the potential to stick with this are the people who came because they wanted a DAoC spiritual successor, not skyrim fanboys (I'm both).