Single player writing is just silly

Endolith

I like the game overall, but it seems like whoever wrote the storyline and quest dialog had no clue what kind of game they were writing for. How many times can I be "the only person" who can do whatever, only to go do it and find a dozen people completing the exact same task ahead of me. I don't mind the people, but how hard is it to write quests and stories that acknowledge the game is an MMO. ZOS claims to value immersion, but the quest dialogs and actual game experience are so at odds the idea of immersion is ludicrous. I hope if/when the game continues to expand they'll just write quest dialog that makes sense given the nature of the game.

Blackwolfe5

Welcome to most mmo's ever?

Swordguy

there is dialogue throughout the game that acknowledges other players (no 4th wall breaking crap though), but its a very small fraction compared to the scope of the game.

LordEcks

Endolith wrote: »

I like the game overall, but it seems like whoever wrote the storyline and quest dialog had no clue what kind of game they were writing for. How many times can I be "the only person" who can do whatever, only to go do it and find a dozen people completing the exact same task ahead of me. I don't mind the people, but how hard is it to write quests and stories that acknowledge the game is an MMO. ZOS claims to value immersion, but the quest dialogs and actual game experience are so at odds the idea of immersion is ludicrous. I hope if/when the game continues to expand they'll just write quest dialog that makes sense given the nature of the game.

To expand upon what @Blackwolfe5 said....

Games of this nature tend to have their single player component written from the perspective that it is your (the players) story. Otherwise you'd feel that your actions and decisions don't have any real impact. For the most part we come to realize they really don't but for the sake of immersion they're generally written that way.

Especially considering the fact that this is an Elder Scrolls game, a series that until now was completely single player. They're simply trying to preserve that feeling that you are the main character who makes it all possible.

It wouldn't be hard to write the games from the perspective that you (the player) are simply one of a legion of others out to accomplish the same goal... but how epic does that feel to you? "Its okay if you don't save the world... 3000 others are line to do it for you."

Doesn't sound good on paper, or in practice.

Endolith

Swordguy wrote: »

there is dialogue throughout the game that acknowledges other players (no 4th wall breaking crap though), but its a very small fraction compared to the scope of the game.

Yes, quite small. Most of the writing is ridiculous on its face.

And to stave off (hopefully) trolling: I didn't comment on the prevalence or absence of this in MMOs. Being common doesn't render it any less absurd.

phairdon

How man times could you stomach hearing "Oh you are one of the 781,000 people that saved the King from being killed" while walking through the associated city.

PBpsy

That doesn't affect me top much since I expect that in an MMO.
What I find annoying in terms of writing is the over reliance on portals and the fact that almost always the npcs just send me on errands without helping at all. They all are somewhere else supposedly doing important stuff or watching your back. (I am looking at you Raz you worthless hairball and you Emeric )

TheJadeFist

Endolith wrote: »

I like the game overall, but it seems like whoever wrote the storyline and quest dialog had no clue what kind of game they were writing for. How many times can I be "the only person" who can do whatever, only to go do it and find a dozen people completing the exact same task ahead of me. I don't mind the people, but how hard is it to write quests and stories that acknowledge the game is an MMO. ZOS claims to value immersion, but the quest dialogs and actual game experience are so at odds the idea of immersion is ludicrous. I hope if/when the game continues to expand they'll just write quest dialog that makes sense given the nature of the game.

Better yet, riddle me this, why are all these npc's dying on me. I'm a healer damnit, practically cat jesus over here, It totally breaks me out of what ever immersion a quest might have had, to be with the, oh look this again.

Woe is you npc I just met and help fight some bandits or what evers with, that cut looks bad, if only we could get you to a restoration mage, but no there is no time for that... Oh "what about me" you say? You're not worth the mana apparently.

Synfaer

Agreed, quest dialog should include those gathered around the quest giver in the quest objectives, for example;

"My friend, take your loyal companions ffggteyur, dfttyjemj, deerlsllasl and hhejkki and travel yonder to slay the evil beardless Nord"

To be honest, MMO's in general are not the best avenue if you want to be immersed in a game.

Ish_Fingers

If I remember correctly, shortly after leaving the tutorial Coldharbour area, The Prophet says something along the lines of "you will find people who need your help, and others will help you..."

Maybe a bit of a cop-out but that's always sort of out the premise of the game in context for me - you're all just here to help me .

Blackwidow

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

Welcome to most mmo's ever?

Is that want we want for ESO?

Blackwolfe5

You asked how hard it would be to write quests and stories that aknowledges that this is an mmo? Not as easy as you might imagine. At least not in a way that they would make sense.

To be honest? It would require it having to be built with this in mind from the ground up, dynamic quests and basically turning the game into one big sandbox. Hardly suited for telling the kind of stories that are a big part of Elder Scrolls.

Blackwidow

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

You asked how hard it would be to write quests and stories that aknowledges that this is an mmo? Not as easy as you might imagine. At least not if they would make sense.

Pardon me stranger, can you please help? My boy is trapped in the mines and there are monsters in there! I fear for his life!

I've asked a few people and I think some have already gone in to find him. The more people we have the better. Please, can you help me?

(done)

snowmanflvb14_ESO

phairdon wrote: »

How man times could you stomach hearing "Oh you are one of the 781,000 people that saved the King from being killed" while walking through the associated city.

hm i only hear them say "oh you are the one who saved the Queen from being killed" works for me since I do not hear them saying it for any other player walking with me

DarkWombat

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

Welcome to most mmo's ever?

Lord of the Rings Online, World of Warcraft, Rift, Warhammer Online, Wildstar, yeah, most MMOs...lol

All of those have you as just a pawn in the scheme of things.

Eorea

Synfaer wrote: »

Agreed, quest dialog should include those gathered around the quest giver in the quest objectives, for example;

"My friend, take your loyal companions ffggteyur, dfttyjemj, deerlsllasl and hhejkki and travel yonder to slay the evil beardless Nord"

To be honest, MMO's in general are not the best avenue if you want to be immersed in a game.

You quest with bots? BURN THE WITCH!

Blackwolfe5

Blackwidow wrote: »

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

You asked how hard it would be to write quests and stories that aknowledges that this is an mmo? Not as easy as you might imagine. At least not if they would make sense.

Pardon me stranger, can you please help? My boy is trapped in the mines and there are monsters in there! I fear for his life!

I've asked a few people and I think some have already gone in to find him. The more people we have the better. Please, can you help me?

(done)

And the other people doing that quest? Would one person saving the boy complete the quest for everyone currently in the mines? How would you handle these kind of things gameplaywise? Because the mechanics would have to be different for it to make sense.

ferzalrwb17_ESO

DarkWombat wrote: »

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

Welcome to most mmo's ever?

Lord of the Rings Online, World of Warcraft, Rift, Warhammer Online, Wildstar, yeah, most MMOs...lol

All of those have you as just a pawn in the scheme of things.

I remember single-handedly rebuilding an entire town in LOTRO as well as forging an alliance between elves and dwarves, having Galadriel fuss over me (apparently exclusively), personally reassuring Frodo about his entire quest and reforging Aragorn's sword for him (how many swords did he have then?).

In ESO your role is a little larger but more of the same. The problem I have is... what next? What's going on in the Imperial City? Why can't we now get in there now? Will future content even have a main storyline? It doesn't feel like "Part 1". It feels like a completed story, apart from when I step into Cyrodiil, and I wonder where they can take it.

Thunderchief

many times i have been told to go attack something while the quest npc stays behind to develop a strategy on how to attack... later.

Blackwidow

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

And the other people doing that quest? Would one person saving the boy complete the quest for everyone currently in the mines?

The actual quest would work like it does now.

As far as your character is concerned, yes.

However, the other players would still think they are saving the boy. It's called phasing.

This is not complicated.

Alazarz

I just wish most of the objectives were in a separate instance for the player. IE; You go into a house to complete objective X... When you enter the house, it should be it's own instance for me (and my group... if I'm in one). I shouldn't see 10 other people doing the same objective within the house. It kills the immersion for me personally.

Ofcourse, quest objectives in the open world can be left as is.

aipex8_ESO

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

In ESO your role is a little larger but more of the same. The problem I have is... what next? What's going on in the Imperial City? Why can't we now get in there now? Will future content even have a main storyline? It doesn't feel like "Part 1". It feels like a completed story, apart from when I step into Cyrodiil, and I wonder where they can take it.

Most likely there will be an expansion that will open up new parts of the map for all the alliances, another Daedric Prince that has taken notice of you (Meridia hints at this) will start a new conflict and your story will go on. The level cap will be raised (not VR, but 51+), etc.

Skeksi

My favourite quest where the story completely falls apart is The Oldest Orc in Alik'r Desert.

Basically this guy is trapped in a magical prison for thousands of years and no one can figure out how to free him.

The solution is the flow of the seasons and just incase that is too tricky for the player, they have the constellations in order around the walls of the room in which he is trapped... and for THOUSANDS OF YEARS no one else came along that could read the symbols on the walls or press buttons... *facepalm*

And then once you save him, he basically chooses to kill himself anyway.

steveb16_ESO46

LordEcks wrote: »

Especially considering the fact that this is an Elder Scrolls game, a series that until now was completely single player. They're simply trying to preserve that feeling that you are the main character who makes it all possible.

Which is why you end up in visions and dreams with not just multiple players all doing the same thing but multiple copies of accompanying npc's of course.

Lazy writing.

Ailu

Alo! Welcome to MMO!

Please take of your logic on your way in