PvP NPCs a little too strong?

Sorin289

Yea so after the patch, the NPC's feel like trucks, even with an average V4 raid of 24 I feel it makes it too easy for others to defend. All we have to do is crouch on the other side of the keep untill they push in.. and then wipe while the super npc's are tearing them apart... i think they are bit over the top, tbh.

quakedawg_ESO

The defending team should have the advantage and those NPC's are part of that advantage. I think they are perfect now at VR5. Pretty silly when 3-4 players could take a keep before the patch.

Sorin289

I agree, but i think they made them a bit over the top.. it makes taking keeps with 10~15 defenders feel like zergs. Maybe not as many in a keep? It should be harder, it should, but this feels a bit much.

OtarTheMad

I like the challenge and I like the strength of the NPC's while defending... it makes it feel like you earned it when you get the keep... or feel good if you defended one. It made sense that the NPC's were lvl 50 at the beginning but by now most are way passed that and some could even one man a resource so it had to be changed in order to keep things fun.

ElSlayer

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

The defending team should have the advantage and those NPC's are part of that advantage. I think they are perfect now at VR5. Pretty silly when 3-4 players could take a keep before the patch.

^

Cody

what if you are questing though?:/

TheGrandAlliance

NookyZooky wrote: »

what if you are questing though?:/

Indeed... it makes it hard for sub vets. However now Vets have a reliable source of EXP that doesn't require you going into other 2 faction's zone (and thus breaking the story) to level.

Furthermore... although they appear hard now: When teh overall level of playerbase increases this vet situation will no longer be a problem.

Sorin289

I dont think the buff is a problem, its the amount of guards in the keep, just a simple keep has... if im not mistaken.. around 20~25 guards in the inner postern, and at "V5" (i use " because they seem much stronger then ANY v8+ mob") it just seems a bit overwhelming

TheGrandAlliance

r.staton289b14_ESO wrote: »

I dont think the buff is a problem, its the amount of guards in the keep, just a simple keep has... if im not mistaken.. around 20~25 guards in the inner postern, and at "V5" (i use " because they seem much stronger then ANY v8+ mob") it just seems a bit overwhelming

No... you must be counting Mercs. The inner keep doesn't have that many guards.

gorant1313ub17_ESO

Mercs are most definitely doing a little too much damage. They are harder to kill than most players and that should not be the case. We use them as well when we cap resource nodes and camp inside and it feels dirty.

TheGrandAlliance

gorant1313ub17_ESO wrote: »

They are harder to kill than most players and that should not be the case.

This is only because the player base is still mostly sub-VR5. Just like at the launch of the game... NPCs will weaken with time.

idk

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

The defending team should have the advantage and those NPC's are part of that advantage. I think they are perfect now at VR5. Pretty silly when 3-4 players could take a keep before the patch.

I agree that the step up from a mere lvl 50 to VR5 for NPCs is warranted. All low levels are scaled to LvL 50 and many are VR12 or well on their way. The addition or archers is even better. Makes for a better challenge. After all, isn't a challenge what we are looking for?

The only issue is a that some cannot be targeted which is labeled ESO bug 10256. They will get to this eventually.

Sorin289

The inner keeps do have that meany, guards, honor guards, menders, mages, archers - inlcuding the mages around the transitus and the archers/mages up top

ElSlayer

gorant1313ub17_ESO wrote: »

Mercs are most definitely doing a little too much damage. They are harder to kill than most players and that should not be the case. We use them as well when we cap resource nodes and camp inside and it feels dirty.

They are last for a limited time and cost 1000 AP each, which is quite fair price for what they do.

zenmogwai

Well I agree with the OP. The NPCs completely change PvP at least for low population factions. My campaigns map was completely dominated by one faction but the underdogs could occasionally flip keeps or make emperor runs.

They added and buffed these NPCs but didn't reset the map. So the whole map is one color and because of the NPCs we haven't been able to push past our own keeps. It takes so long for a small group to kill the NPCs that the opposing zerg has plenty of time to hear there is action and log into Cyrodiil to 3v1 us.

MAYBE these NPC changes would be okay in completely balanced high population campaigns... but look around, there is maybe 1 campaign that fits that description.

The winning factions were winning because they had numbers. The NPCs won't affect their zergs at all. However, the low population factions already had to make a real effort to take a keep. Now the NPCs alone are enough to majorly hinder them. All these changes do is make it easier for the winning factions to continue winning.

As a side note, the NPC respawn rate is also too fast. As long as a keep is still flagged as under siege they honestly shouldn't respawn at all. Several times since the patch my faction has taken a flag and been fighting for the second only to have NPCs respawn at the first and wipe our group.

Bottom-line is that Cyrodiil is not supposed to be about PvE. If I wanted to fight overpowered NPCs I would go do more vet content. I come to Cyrodiil to siege and fight players.

Censorious

I don't mind the NPCs being a bit OP.
I get the logic as to why Zos made the change - and it works.

But it seems unreasonable to have to fight a score or more NPCs while the half-dozen defenders (who could have called for reinforcements long ago) quietly slip out the back door and hight-tail it over the horizon.

FENGRUSH

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

gorant1313ub17_ESO wrote: »

They are harder to kill than most players and that should not be the case.

This is only because the player base is still mostly sub-VR5. Just like at the launch of the game... NPCs will weaken with time.

The NPCs wont become weaker as players level up. Im VR 12 and breaking into a keep can be very painful when youre hit by archer/mages simultaneously for thousands of dmg.

bruceb14_ESO5

NPCs are good VR5, damage reasonable. Scale lower levels to VR5 instead of 50.

SC0TY999

There should be some sort of population detection and NPC's offset and controlled against the amount of players the alliance currently has in the campaign. For instance if an alliance has 60+ PvPers in a campaign at that time then only 5-10 NPC's will be spawned inside keep grounds. This would give other alliances attacking a fair chance, where as if there's a low alliance population then NPC's are increased to help defend when alliance players aren't online.

JosephChip

No please, stop with mercenaries. It is out of control. Everywhere you go in Cyrodiil people are spamming dozens of mercenaries with 10k HP that can tank multiple players at the same time. Now every fight is about PvNPCs while the defenders stay in the back spamming them over and over. I remember last night on AB EU, we ADs managed to take down the main gate of an EP keep and my jaw dropped to the floor when I gazed upon 50+ mercenaries waiting for us at the entrance. A few hours later we had to kill insane amounts of NPCs just to take the inner hall of Aleswell. We were roughly a dozen against 3/4 at best. When I see an enemy player I feel an intense sentiment of joy for being able to actually have some PvP, in my PvP. (And they go down ten times faster than NPCs). Just to cry a little inside when I move to the next enemy location and I find more hordes of mercenaries waiting for me. I am tired of PvE. I came to Cyrodiil to PvP and I can't even have that in this supposedly PvP-oriented game.
Again, today I had some really good fights against EP, but almost all of them were still plagued by indiscriminate use of mercenaries. Often being far more than players, turning Cyrodiil in a mockery of RvR. Each time I have to fight my way through ranks of NPCs I lose a bit more hope in this game.

Wolfahm

Mercs> Fix unattackable Mages, and change spawn rules?
Normal Keep NPCs > 100% Fine.

If you die to "mobs" that can be CC locked I feel bad for you, stop playing stupid and rushing multi guards solo.

Thechemicals

They are a bit tough yes.

TheGrandAlliance

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The NPCs wont become weaker as players level up. Im VR 12 and breaking into a keep can be very painful when youre hit by archer/mages simultaneously for thousands of dmg.

You're just playing your class right. I assure you small groups (10) of VR10+s can easily overpower an army of seige npcs. Saw it happen today. Requires skill that is all.

AryaWythers

I think they just upgraded them so the PvE heroes can get even more from PvP...since true PvP'rs get nothing and are leaving in hordes!

Some_Jerk

Npcs are currently too powerful, but I hope as the VR cap raises NPCs will not be raised any higher so that they will eventually become less powerful. Underleveled players need to be scaled to VR5 instead of level 50 to keep up.

bruceb14_ESO5

I was playing around with my lowbie Nightblade (level 15) and was surprised to be able to quest in Burma and elsewhere hitting VR5 npcs without laying on my back too much. Helped in some PVP primarily with sieges but also combat. I've been a proponent on of scaling lowbies to VR5 but am thinking perhaps it is ok. The stronger and more plentiful guards take more strategy then a fast zerg with a small group, but still doable.

Leaok

The PvE monsters are much much weaker than the keep guards. With the extended range and damage it is not unusual now for a VR12 to be burned down in about 1.5 seconds just by showing his face to the guards.

The number of times my death recap looks like this is to damn high!

Quick shot: 800
Quick shot: 800
Blaze: 700
Blaze: 700
Torrent: 2500

driosketch

I asked about the NPCs in the upcoming Non-Vet campaign over in the other thread. Got a response.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Veteran rank modifiers on NPCs will be looked into to see what we can do for the non veteran rank players but if we can't adjust the NPC levels, we will more than likely crank up the bolstered stats higher.

Helspyre

There is something inherently wrong with the title of this thread, and it's in the pairing of the first two words.

ThreeEyedCrow

Agree.

Since NPC got scaled up Cyrodiil seems silly for anyone under v3-4 at least.

Scale the lower levels to the same level as NPCs. Makes no sense to raise NPC but not raise lower level scaling.

Mitharus

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

Agree.

Since NPC got scaled up Cyrodiil seems silly for anyone under v3-4 at least.

Scale the lower levels to the same level as NPCs. Makes no sense to raise NPC but not raise lower level scaling.

I disagree in part. The "PvE" mobs are fine IMO. May take a bit more planning, but completely do able below vet level.[1]

Now the Keep/Resource guards on the other hand... Those are a pain. I may be able to solo a single guard if I'm lucky. But it's almost never the case that I'm able to pull a single guard without pulling a mage, or at least one other guard along with. But these are Keep guards. They should be harder to kill then your run of the mill NPC's.

-M

[1] - Char is lvl 42 NB. Definitely not built for PvP since I prefer PvE and, you know, actually going through the story and such. PvP is just a fun distraction. *shrug*