So, now that ALL the bots are back.

Swordguy

the problem has always been people who are willing to buy from the spammers, and pay2win via 3rd party means, which effects pvp and the ingame economy.

But in order to clamp down on bots, pve is ultimately the game that suffers. And for all the effort, bots are still rampant, and pay2win players are still buying stuff from them and effecting pvp regardless of how much the devs ruin pve to stop it.

the current methods are clearly not working. It sucks enough to have to jump to loot a cupboard, but whats next? containers or nodes have a 10% chance of a mob spawn and attack you? (actually, thats not a bad idea lol).

seaef

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

They could be slowed by A LOT of zeni only would put GM's on game 24/7 for a few months.

Well, they are doing something because I ran past a level three character with the letters 'gm' in his name in Sentinel several times. How exactly does a level three get to Sentinel and why is he hiding behind a tree?

zaria

gryphdnb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not sure how Rift managed it, but they have a coinlock feature that if your account has any suspicious behavior(and staying level 3-4 for longer than 10 hours would do it.), it coinlocks you so you can't sell anything in your inventory until you get a coinlock code from Zen in your e-mail.

Or make it so that you can't log into your account until you activate the code to clear the lock on your account?

That might help. Hard to say though. I've not seen botting this bad in a game in a looong time.

Another good idea, you could still sell to npc I assume however not to guild or other players, far less drastically than disabling the account.
This however require that support has access to good logs to quickly check you up if locked.

zaria

Swordguy wrote: »

the problem has always been people who are willing to buy from the spammers, and pay2win via 3rd party means, which effects pvp and the ingame economy.

But in order to clamp down on bots, pve is ultimately the game that suffers. And for all the effort, bots are still rampant, and pay2win players are still buying stuff from them and effecting pvp regardless of how much the devs ruin pve to stop it.

the current methods are clearly not working. It sucks enough to have to jump to loot a cupboard, but whats next? containers or nodes have a 10% chance of a mob spawn and attack you? (actually, thats not a bad idea lol).

Runescape had something like that, if you was farming to long in a area it was a danger that some slow boss monster would come and attack you.
Even better they had an guy who gave you an gift with an screen who was hard to solve for a bot.

SirAndy

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Fix the Client/Server code that allows bots to exists ...
;-)

To do that, they would have to get rid of addons.

Imagine the outcry.

@rawne1980b16_ESO
The two major botting programs for ESO are 3rd party executable that do not use AddOns or the AddOn API.

They're exploiting the wide open barn door that ZOS implemented by letting the game client make decisions.

notepad

Since I started "late" and level slowly, I'm affected by a ton of bots and have had random thoughts cross my mind about them (some ideas from other games).

-Limiting how many characters can be created in one day. If you do not log in the character, it won't count (that way if you goof up the appearance and realize it before logging in it isn't counted against you).

-As someone else mentioned, Rift's coinlock helps with possible hacked accounts. If your IP address changes, you can't do much with the account until you respond to an email.

-Maybe something like how the new Xbox Live system is supposed to work. Add a "report" function specific for bots. Once a character crosses a threshold, they are phased into the a purgatory instance inhabited only by other flagged accounts. Maybe put some notice on the screen to alert the player for the real accounts that are accidently flagged. The player can still play and if they are real, can appeal to a GM. The account stays in the purgatory until a GM can investigate (priority given to people who report their account as falsely flagged).

Add in an achievement type system. If you report confirmed bots, it works toward an achievement with a chance of a prize (equivalent of a random world chest or something). On the other hand, there would need to be tracking in place for someone who is falsely reporting people out of spite--abusers of the system can have suspensions placed on their accounts.

Sarcastic/joking only, but sometimes when I'm in a spot (Vanne Farm, Wayrest Mage's Guild etc) where bot after bot after bot comes by, I feel like I should be playing a tower defense game and should be able to drop anti-bot turrets or fire a bot-tagging gun or taser at them

-Oh, there should also be some kind of height detection, where players who are at improper height coordinates (flying through air, clipping underground) for too long and/or repeatedly are autoflagged and booted. There needs to be a little leeway for things like players falling off mountains and those "fall through the world" bugs. However, real players do not stay in those states long, or do not move on an X-Y plane for long once they've fallen through the world and such.

Anyway, wishful thinking. Bots are seriously hurting the game for me, as I have to spend extra time running through since the bots have chewed everything up.

/edit: Killing crafting material sell vendors won't help. The bots can still get money through farming that will hurt actual players. Bots already are farming up a lot of monsters making it difficult for people when they need quest drops from monsters or just want to experience a cavern or something.

Apophiss

pknecron wrote: »

Does anyone else have any other potential solutions.

One that you think would be EASY to do, AND ENFORCE:

Put a level MINIMUM on the Wayshrines, quests AND going into other zones.

THAT would make it a lot more difficult for the teleporting bots from doing messenger quests and opening containers in higher level zones. And the low level BOT swarms moving about the dungeons and landscapes.

KitLightning

thedatajunkie wrote: »

Bot Bounty. Make a better way to report them in-game. You report, the GM confirms and you get 100 gold. Bot Hunting for fun and profit!

B.. but then the poogwamme's will jsut make them bots weepo't the otho' bots *nuuus*

indytims_ESO

mutharex wrote: »

After reading threads like this I realise that how many clueless kids play these games even if they are rated M

The "M" rating is like a magnet for kids.

Ironic, then: A "Mature" rating tends to invite more "Immature" players to the game. At least in my experience. But of course they exist everywhere, and of course there are exceptions, and of course there is that % of the adult population that acts -worst- than kids, etc, etc.

For Bots...

I definitely think a 'delete character' timer is a good idea, especially if Zeni really isn't deleting all that many accounts.

I also still think that maxxing out boss loot to ONE looting is still a good idea. You kill a boss, you get his/her/its loot ONCE. Kill the boss again, you get ZERO loot and ZERO XP. You have no reason to continue 'farming' that boss.

Loot timers for nodes wouldn't be a bad idea, either. That'd prevent farming those in general, but the timer doesn't have to be huge. Would slow them down, at least.

lecarcajou_ESO

Only way to eliminate the gold market... eliminate the gold. Why the hell do we have to buy and sell stuff? The most prestigious/expensive items aren't available for coin, anyway—except mounts, and even that could be handled differently. And if you want to buy mats or whatever from someone else, well... I doubt bots are good at bartering.

Xphisto

Do they use a follow command when they are hunting? I seen 7 or 8 all following each other the other day.

If there is a follow command and its removed they cant run around in such large groups.

notepad

lecarcajou_ESO wrote: »

Only way to eliminate the gold market... eliminate the gold. Why the hell do we have to buy and sell stuff?

Somewhat related to this, of the MMOs I've played two did not have much of a problem with botters and gold selling spammers were City of Heroes and Anarchy Online. In both of those games, you got money/influence easily and had plenty and didn't really need it for much.

lecarcajou_ESO

notepad wrote: »

lecarcajou_ESO wrote: »

Only way to eliminate the gold market... eliminate the gold. Why the hell do we have to buy and sell stuff?

Somewhat related to this, of the MMOs I've played two did not have much of a problem with botters and gold selling spammers were City of Heroes and Anarchy Online. In both of those games, you got money/influence easily and had plenty and didn't really need it for much.

Or that.

j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO

Well, as stated, the problem are the buyers - as long as people pay outside interests for in game advantages, there will never be a solution - only an "improvement".

Anyway, here is an "automatic" action ZOS could take that would slow the bots down a little:

Using conditional compilation or other means at their disposal rebuild the client twice a week (once for each scheduled maintenance day) in such a way that the "hooks" the bots are using in the client are moved randomly around in the resulting binary (code) and the code itself is slightly randomized with dead code fragments added in. Then release a patch to update the client with these changes and a series of random "noise" changes. Part of the key to this is the random generation process so no one, even ZOS would know where and how the patches are moved. Then have a wrapper on the server that "knows" how the latest randomization is done - so it can recognize old vs new incoming communications. The patches would be relatively small 50 to 100 mb (like the 50 MB one this week) and would require the bot coders to determine the new locations and recompile and redistribute their code.

Each time the client was updated (twice a week) for that day the bots would quit working - at least those using hooks for fast travel, teleporting, etc - until the bot coders rebuilt their programs to accommodate the changes in the client.

Additionally, embedded within the patches could be trojans that could attack the bot program when called - this may or may not be possible/legal, since the bot coders would be looking for it - probably.

Anyway - this suggestion is based on rumors of how the botters are getting access to some of the things they appear to do, and is NOT based on any first hand knowledge. It is based on actual experience experimenting with "untrusted clients" in a corporate environment - ie. not out in the wild wild internet.

If it worked, it could be expanded - but I leave that to others to figure out how. Meantime it could lead to one day a week with "crippled" bots that could only operate using normal game mechanics available to all players - which we saw for a day or two following the previous big update.

j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO

PLEASE! Quit suggesting that ZOS make changes that will "punish" the players to control the bots.

ciannait

pknecron wrote: »

I think it is time we came up with a better solution. We can't STOP them, that much is obvious, but we might be able to CONTAIN them.

I think we need to make all crafting mats vendor for 0 and boost the gold from mobs by 3 to 5 times what it is now. I don't really like this idea, but it should in theory stop the bots from node farming and push them all into pub dungeons and Crosswych-like areas where they are a pain but at least contained.

Does anyone else have any other potential solutions. I realize mine is pretty drastic, but since enforcement is not working containment seems the only way.

I'm already seeing more bots farming mobs (especially quest mobs) than I am node farmers, although the node farmers are simply mostly underground. (Thanks, FastReport, for making it easier to report them. Now I just wish ZOS did something about them...)

snowmanflvb14_ESO

I see an anouncement every day in the zones of am in of devs asking about bots so they can ban them. Since launch i see fewer and fewer bots.

j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO

I believe I heard that the EU consumer protection laws require game companies to give refunds when they ban a customer. If that is so, it is at least part of the problem, since there is NO cost to being banned - simply take your refund and open a new account with a free email someplace else.

With no way to hurt the pocketbooks of botters, nothing will change.

I suggest that the best/only way to stop this is to ban the buyers - it would be very painful to ZOS, but if you eliminate the market other than script kiddies, all the commercial botters will leave. If ZOS does start banning players for buying gold and power leveled accounts, etc. they need to be VERY public about it so it has ripple effects of letting others know they could be next.

ers101284b14_ESO

pknecron wrote: »

Does anyone else have any other potential solutions. I realize mine is pretty drastic, but since enforcement is not working containment seems the only way.

I got nothing that doesn't involve spies, the CIA, and genocide.
But I have seen a reduction.

j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

pknecron wrote: »

Does anyone else have any other potential solutions. I realize mine is pretty drastic, but since enforcement is not working containment seems the only way.

I got nothing that doesn't involve spies, the CIA, and genocide.
But I have seen a reduction.

I expect lowering a few botters slowly into tree shredders feet first and televising it on all the web outlets would have some impact, not sure how much.

Darrett

How about limiting trading during the trial month?

Drasn

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Fix the Client/Server code that allows bots to exists ...
;-)

To do that, they would have to get rid of addons.

Imagine the outcry.

Isn't that cute, you think that add-ons are what he was talking about. Let it go, add-ons are part of the game, and aren't what bots are using to bot.

See Zeni thought it would be a good idea to give the game client too much trust, what that means is that a players location, speed, stamina, etc. are all provided by the client. This is fine if the server has the ability to detect when these attributes have been modified. None of this is accessed through the API or the add-ons that pull information from that API.

Now if they are able to implement a server side check as to whether or not the client is "lying" that will make it harder for the bots to speed hack/teleport/fly/etc.

Will that get rid of all the bots? Of course not. There are many other ways to bot, a simple macro program or pixel detection program enables one to bot.

Take your tin foil hat off and educate yourself.

twistedmonk

With the abysmal direction the game producers are taking this game, the only thing left to play the game will be the bots.

Westcoast14_ESO

There are other things that could be done to limit the value of botting.

You could record and direct drops by account as opposed to by character, with the drops first going to the account, then being sent to a single character.

You could tie the ability to obtain certain quality levels (ex. epic and legendary) of upgrade materials and certain quality levels of drops to progression along the main quest line (for example, no access to legendary without having completed the main quest line), and then check the main quest instances for the number of active characters.

Since those instances are much smaller than zones and unlikely to change, and only visited once per character, there could be much stronger server side checks for playthroughs. In fact only the instances enabling access to epic and legendary would benefit from added checking vs. bots/hacks. It wouldn't be too big a burden to save off the combat logs for those encounters for later review as well.

Clean up all of the quests that can be done via simple hand-ins so no item of economic value is provided.

Clean up motif drops via repeated relogs.

Nazon_Katts

If it's just about gold sellers' bots and how to contain them, there's only one easy solution; install a global AH and let them play the market. At this stage, probably the lesser of two evils.

Laughter Song

Recently I read a Report that stated 30% of the average player in an MMORPG buys gold or 20% use botting programs.

This is not your Grandma's MMORPG Generation of hard working players with integrity mixed in with a few cheaters here and there....

This is the New Generation or Next Gen Gamers; a "Generation of Entitlement"!

This generation clearly states, "F* working at something. I will just use Mommie's Credit Card and Buy or Bot my way to success!"

This is what happens when the best of the best in gear and/or achievements are not Earned (BoP) or Crafted at End Game but are easily accessible to all players.

This is what happens when Share Holders have more say in an MMORPG than the development team!

Long gone are the days of Passion to create a genuine, in-depth, immersive MMORPG that takes dedication and skill.

Which brings me to my next point. After over 300 Tickets to Zenimax about the Bot situation ( I LOVE to craft - thus need to gather mats) , 5 phone calls, 2 letters to corporate, and due to the sheer volume and mass saturation of bots filling up ESO - I can only conclude that - Zenimax is behind it, sanctions gold farming-selling or the share holders are turning a blind eye towards it to recoup monies spent in development - like the almost 100.00 per Imperial Edition game is not enough. pft

Bots are now out numbering players!

The Black Smith Stations and Wood Working Stations are filled with them, zooooming in, extracting (Deconstructing), flying through the walls, the floors and then zooming off!~

Not an hour goes by in any zone below level 20 (at least) where the heated subject of bots and the havoc they bring comes up in Zone Chat.

Just today alone in a 30 minute time period, there were over 30 bots cycling in and out of Auridon using the Blacksmith/Tailor/Woodworking tables...zooooming around like busy lil' bees, cycling through extracting precious materials needed for crafting to resell at substantially lower prices to the player base and/or to vendor.

There are numerous Bot Thread because obviously Zenimax does not seem to care...well not that players can actually see...not that is tangible proof anyway.

The point is:

You can no longer Farm mats in most areas. Public dungeons quests are a joke. Bots kill game Immersion & they destroy the in-game economy. The bots are now in VR Zones.

Where will it end?

I paid a lot of money for this game...for what Bots? I can't even gather mats anymore to craft. It is quickly becoming beyond the time of being patient.

Bots finally made it into VR 1- 10 Content because they were not stopped in the lower areas. Guess what happens when bots are not banned? A: They grow up from baby bots into big bad boy VR bots!

And finally a GM took time off of his busy schedule to remove One little bot out of the Thousands...that is right "Thousands" that plague this game.

I reported, filmed and took screen shots of over 30 bots just in the Auridon crafting areas...flying about like they owned the place.

The bots are using the Black Smith/Tailoring/Woodworking stations. Then some "legit" head bot sells the extracted materials dirt cheap to players like you and I.

Bots were localized to lower areas now the flood V1-10 areas.

Question: Where are the GMs? Why are they not in force banning?

Why is it Zenimax does not discuss this issue with the player-base?

Why don't they give us exact details of How the plan to eliminate the bots?
What they are doing now is Nothing! ... well nothing that is tangible to the player base that is.

Good job Zenimax for hiring/positioning GMs online - in-game in major towns/cities, in heavily botted gathering areas and in public dungeons.

This game has become the laughing stock of the MMORPG world due to how easily Zenimax (the share holders?) turn a blind eye to how saturated the bots are.

Some reports mention as many as 10 bots for every player & 28% of the player base buys gold. (quoting for MMO online magazines and forum threads).

You cannot stop the Gold Buying per se, however you can attack the severe saturation of bots and the degradation of the game due to bots as well as the loss of player subscriptions by working on IP Protocols, working through legalities, creating software that detects hacking (LUA) through the launcher etc. AND - More Importantly for the Player-Base -

GMs need to be out in Force 24/7 Banning bots especially in specific low level dungeons/gathering/farming zones.

I don't know about you but I am tired of reporting bots daily that I see the very next day and then the next day once again. I have filed over 300...yup "300" - phoned Zenimax 4 times now and have written in 4 separate threads.

I Enjoy this game. I played a Lot for this game. I think we all need to hold Zenimax accountable. What exactly is Zenimax doing to combat this bot problem?

The Fanboyz will hate to read this but it is beginning to look as though Zenimax is behind the botting/gold selling.

It would not be the first time a Money Holder/Investor put collecting (dirty) revenue ahead of game development and the player-base.

Here are links of the bot programs so easily used, bragged about and purchased by players and pros alike:

***WARNING***
***Do NOT download - this software is a Sure Fire Way to have your ESO game Hacked!***

_______________________________

"Experience Flawless Automation"

"Botting The Elder Scrolls Online is now easier than ever. It grinds, it levels, it even farms loot… without you. Welcome to the number one source for ESO automation information. Want to purchase one of our recommended ESO bots? Click here to continue to our purchase page.

(These thieves are actually proud of there product! - it is an odd world we live in today...indeed)

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Spamming]

ciannait

You sure do love copy/pasting that epic post.

Laughter Song

ciannait wrote: »

You sure do love copy/pasting that epic post.

I will do what ever it takes to get this message across! There are far too many threads or I would begin my own.

I am sick of of losing valuable game time because Bots have finished my quest for me or Bots are stealing my nodes...heck currently finding a node is rare.

drschplatt

The bots are really making it difficult for me to continue my crafting. I went into Reapers March recently as I get closer to 50, and in 4 levels worth of playing time, I was able to harvest 20 or 30 spider silk. There just isn't any around because there's so many bots.

Reenlister

notepad wrote: »

Anarchy Online.

Off topic, aye,, blast to the past there, I really enjoyed that back in its younger days. I had me a maxed out Doctor,, now that was fun times to be a healer there.. but like so many things, sigh, it got swapped out so much it killed it.. fer me anyway.