7 Reasons not work in the video game industry.

StarlitVirus

http://www.dorkly.com/post/27379/the-dorklyst-7-reasons-you-dont-want-to-work-in-the-video-game-industry

Check out numbers 5, 4 and 3 in particular in this article. Maybe this will put things in perspective. We should really cut these people a break. I assure you that they do not want everyone to hate them. As a rule, we as a community need to agree that if we're pissed it's probably a bad idea to post on the forum. On the other side if you are annoyed by something you have read on the forums and decide to ream the poster for being so stupid, stop and ask yourself if you'd say it irl. If you wouldn't you probably shouldn't comment.

Natjur

No matter what number 5,4 and 3 will always be true, but the damage could be less with good communication, it will make life easy for all. Half the posts are "is this a bug or did you change this!"

If all changes where posted in the notes, there would be less angry. Sure some of the changes people will still hate and the changes may get rolled back, but a least you know about it at the start.

UberTester

I don't hate anyone. I do expect a service I pay for to be fit for sale though.

StarlitVirus

Well, I gave it a shot.

Ulvich

I worked in the industry for many years. I worked those long hours, didn't have to move and I didn't get fired. And I did like the game I worked on.
The reason I left it behind was because things were getting way out of control. Having to deal with dozens of people from all over the world all at the same exact time. Communication is a serious factor when it comes to programming.

HandofBane

StarlitVirus wrote: »

On the other side if you are annoyed by something you have read on the forums and decide to ream the poster for being so stupid, stop and ask yourself if you'd say it irl. If you wouldn't you probably shouldn't comment.

But... I am not a very nice person IRL, and likely would say the things I do in person to someone if they did/said something stupid enough to justify it. Do I get a pass on the new rule vote?

Izatar

Thing thing is that all the problems faced by game developers happen in any software project. The difference is that the level of expertise in the gaming field is very low. Very very low. Game developers have no idea how bad they are because they were never trained in a professional software environment. The people who do level designs do not understand algorithmic abstraction, you can see this in the way they use their tools and write their scripts. So their designs are at the level of chimpanzee thinking compared to industry standards.

StarlitVirus

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

StarlitVirus

Izatar wrote: »

Thing thing is that all the problems faced by game developers happen in any software project. The difference is that the level of expertise in the gaming field is very low. Very very low. Game developers have no idea how bad they are because they were never trained in a professional software environment. The people who do level designs do not understand algorithmic abstraction, you can see this in the way they use their tools and write their scripts. So their designs are at the level of chimpanzee thinking compared to industry standards.

I absolutely agree with you.

HandofBane

StarlitVirus wrote: »

HandofBane wrote: »

StarlitVirus wrote: »

On the other side if you are annoyed by something you have read on the forums and decide to ream the poster for being so stupid, stop and ask yourself if you'd say it irl. If you wouldn't you probably shouldn't comment.

But... I am not a very nice person IRL, and likely would say the things I do in person to someone if they did/said something stupid enough to justify it. Do I get a pass on the new rule vote?

Nope you're just a *** in that case, troll.

That may well be, but being nice for the sake of being nice does not excuse when someone doing a job that they expect me to hand them money for fails to do that job effectively. People screw up all the time, there is plenty of competition available in any given market, especially video games, and it reflects far better on the company when the people they allow to be the public face admit to mistakes made rather than attempt to cover it up, or hide behind a wall of fanbois when something goes terribly terribly wrong. Should I pull up the massive laundry list of mistakes, bugs, miscommunications, and outright lies we have gotten from ZOS - not just since launch, but as far back as during the beta stages?

Ser Lobo

I learned years ago that video game consumers are some of the worst, most vocal and most spiteful consumers out of any service industry. Been playing MMO's, particularly, since the late 90's. And to be honest, MMO players can be the worst of all, even topping out the FPS kiddies.

Part of the biggest issue with MMO players is that they are generally more intelligent. So instead of just rage-quitting like some pre-teen spending their mother's credit card, they get vengeful. They write long reviews, hateful forum posts. They know the value of public opinion.

Doesn't matter if the game has a few, minor bugs. *** off the right MMO fan, and your game will literally look like the worst thing ever made. Anything can be made to look evil, and we do it every day to the industry we claim to love.

What's worse, is that it seems the average MMO gamer swears they know more than the people who make the world. They know better. Not just about what they like ... that's understandable. But about what OTHERS like. They tend to speak for everyone, generalize often (ironic, isn't it?) and cannot understand that rational, intelligent people might disagree with them.

I, personally, feel that the person who decided not to make player housing a priority in an Elder Scrolls game is a moron. I might like them, but that decision alone pisses me off. And I tell everyone I meet my disappointments.

We have created the industry in our image. Selfish. Self serving. And focused on who spends the money.

rawne1980b16_ESO

The problem there is if people only sing a developers praises then they will carry on as if things are perfect when we know there are things need looking at.

Not just this game but any game.

Criticism is needed so they know to fix the broken things.

I agree that blind rage isn't needed but sometimes people need to vent and I won;t call them out for it.

We've all been angry at one time or another.

Eorea

:C That article makes me really sad. Like really sad. As in IRL tears right now.

ers101284b14_ESO

Eorea wrote: »

:C That article makes me really sad. Like really sad. As in IRL tears right now.

Unfortunately most of it is true. It's why a lot of developers are moving to Indy Development.

harleysub17_ESO

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Eorea wrote: »

:C That article makes me really sad. Like really sad. As in IRL tears right now.

Unfortunately most of it is true. It's why a lot of developers are moving to Indy Development.

I don't understand. What does the nature of the parent company have to do with developers and their job satisfaction? Are indy games immune from criticism? Are big name AAA games subject to more criticism?

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO

It's the same in the film industry.

Number 2 is the only one that affected me. Number 7 is a constant, but who cares, because the money in the entertainment industry is ridiculous. Really, we can't all work on Game of Thrones, or Lord of the Rings.

Number 6, 5, 4, 3...who cares. It's good money, it's temporary, and if you don't like it, you can quit.

Which brings us to number 1. Which unfortunately isn't true enough. There are a lot of people who work in the entertainment industry that should be fired, but never get fired. That's why we have so many bad games and bad movies being released every year. We need more firings!

Developers need to quit chinsing out out skill, talent, and experience.

Games are being released unfinished. On top of that, they now want money to be ongoing, and they want it in advance.

I say, screw them.

aleister

StarlitVirus wrote: »

We should really cut these people a break. I assure you that they do not want everyone to hate them.

No, we shouldn't. ZOS is charging a premium subscription rate for this game and delivering absolute crap for quality. They need to feel the heat. They need to feel it here and in other forums as well. It's good for them. And in the long run it will be good for the game assuming it can survive this critical phase.

SapperStew

A great deal of the problem with MMO communities is that often, gamers have been burned repeatedly by game developers and game companies on multiple titles since the rise of MMOs with The Realm Online, and UO. That ends up cumulatively being taken out on the current game they're playing. It's sad, but true.

For example, Age of Conan oozed potential as a AAA PvP game with visionary combat controls, and (at the time) mind-blowing graphics. So many people were upgrading PCs and video cards in anticipation of the game that was billed as the savior of MMO PvP. It was released completely unfinished, PvP wasn't even IN the game at launch, and there were game-breaking bugs and memory leaks big enough to ride an elephant through. The entire population was gone by month 2, and the game did come around at one point, though few people ever went back to see it after investing hundreds of dollars in PC upgrades, box sales, and subscription fees.

And that same theme has repeated over and over again. There have been many successful niche MMO's, but most fell short of their promises, choosing to facilitate their own 'vision' for a game to the point of hubris. SWOTOR stuck to the idea that gamers want story above all things, and it fell flat quickly. They reacted too slowly to keep the PvP crowd around, did nothing for the end game raiders, and made the fanboys angry by making gear for Jedi that looked like bounty hunter armor. You can't isolate any faction of your community to that extent if you want a AAA title. Everyone has to be made to feel welcome, and to feel like there's content applicable to their preferred style.

MMO communities aren't the most self-aware entities out there. If they were, you wouldn't get the L2P flame wars between the hardcore and casuals. They have a symbiotic relationship, and they need each other if they want the game they've all bought to be a success. The hardcores are the pillar of a game- these are the folks that are generally always online- the backbone of guilds, ect. They spend massive amounts of time playing, creating strategies, and theorycrafting builds that the casual players can use in their much more limited time. And casual players pay the bills with their numbers. Hardcore players need them to stick around to play the game and keep it financially viable. Everyone in the community is important, and wants to feel like they have a stake in the game. People lose sight of that, and developers aren't immune to missing that particular train.

Game companies need to do everything possible to fix games and get them out of the dangerous launch phase, and communities could be more patient- but be careful when you're shouting those people down who are clamoring for immediate fixes- because the common answer- "it takes time for these things", while true doesn't change the fact that if you isolate those people, they'll be long gone by the time those changes happen. It's happened too many times, and wrecked too many games. This is the premier IP in the last 20 years of computer gaming. We all want it to succeed. We'd all do better if we remembered that.

ers101284b14_ESO

harleysub17_ESO wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Eorea wrote: »

:C That article makes me really sad. Like really sad. As in IRL tears right now.

Unfortunately most of it is true. It's why a lot of developers are moving to Indy Development.

I don't understand. What does the nature of the parent company have to do with developers and their job satisfaction? Are indy games immune from criticism? Are big name AAA games subject to more criticism?

Indy companies are generally more laid back and have less to lose. People think game development is just a game itself but its not. In Indy you have a smaller group usually less than 2 dozen compared to a AAA that can have hundreds. Indy has less money invested and doesn't need to sell much to make a profit. AAA titles have investors who want their money, they have a business to run, they have hundreds to thousand of employees to pay, all that means that the suits are going to be riding your ass to get things done and to get them done a week ago. That's why I just have to laugh at people who say Zenimax is a greedy company for wanting a sub based game and they just want money. Well if you had 500 people's lives and 200 million dollars of money on the line wouldn't you want to make a profitable game that makes the most amount of money?

Sorry to ramble but to answer your question Indy developers receive less criticism because people expect less. You buy an Indy game and it last 20 hours your like holy crap that was a huge game. 20 hours in a AAA and gamers are threatening lawsuits because they got ripped off. Gamers expect nothing from Indy and expect 10000% perfection from AAA even though both are made by humans.

isengrimb16_ESO

At least I know this MMO will eventually get fixed, it is capable of being fixed. You can't fix a bad movie with a stale, rehash of a storyline (which seems to be about all that's coming out of Hollywood the past few years or so), yet you're still expected to pay to see a story told a million times before, just with a new costume on.

I'll take the risks, pitfalls, and yes, even the annoyances that come with anything new, over same-old same-old same-old.

As for releasing this game "too early"; perhaps, but I guess after seven years of development they had to get SOMETHING out the door. A movie company spends what, 10 years and 2 million bucks to give us ... Pocahontas Told By Blue KittyPeople (and a sermon about how bad my race and culture is. Pocahontas handled that part much better.) I'm quite glad I did not pay to see the 20 minutes that put me to sleep, what a blah, bad movie Avatar was for the money spent.

As an insomniac, the only use I see for modern movies is as a soporiphic.

Ugh. Just thinking of the state of entertainment in general .... ... I'd be back playing my NB _right now_ if I wasn't just taking a break from my house-duties.