Affect of quick&dirty "fix" of soul trap

Kegero

Patch 1.1.2:
"Soul Magic

Consuming Trap: This ability can no longer be used on critters to restore Health, Magicka, and Stamina."


Has anyone at ZOS actually tested this because I can guarantee, that the did not. The guy/girl that was responsible for this most likely did this:
"Soul trap is a spell so I just don't allow spells to be cast on critters."


Just try the following:
Target a critter and try to cast spells on them. You won't be able to cast impulse, crushing shock (destro staff), breath of life (templar) or rapid regeneration (resto staff).
I'm pretty sure it affects many other spells as well. Interestingly it does not affect biting jabs (yay, they actually did buff the templar!).

Currently I screen the area of the next fight for critters because as soon as you got them in your cross hair at least the above listed spells can't be cast.

Also, critters are no longer affected by aoe spells like impulse. A tiny little level 1 spider survives your impulse spam while grown up goblins don't.

Considering the care that ZOS takes for testing their patches (forgot to mention the 1 second global cooldown after biting jabs, forgot to mention that the damage of soul assault was cut by ~30%, thief mundus stone effect not showing for spell crit,...) the above probably did slip the QA by accident.

So, ZOS, would you be so kind to revert critters to their status before patch 1.1.2? pretty please?

Kegero

Oh, just forgot to help ZOS out with the quick&dirty fix for the above problem.
Just update the patch notes with the following text:
Spells:
"You are no longer able to cast most spells while targeting critters"

TheGrandAlliance

Leave the non-hostiles alone already: Go kill some Daggerfall instead.

dpgirl

This is absolutely horrible.

Non-targeted powers like "heal closest ally" stuff, are grayed out and not usable when a critter is targeted, even though it couldn't possibly affect the critter... makes healing a PITA when critters are around graying out all my heals.

Gaudrath

That's actually a good change. Think for a bit. What's more important, being able to cast spells on critters, which does absolutely nothing, or being able to not accidentally target a rabbit hiding in a bush with your finisher and waste magicka/stamina instead of, you know, killing the monster it was supposed to hit.

Quit complaining about every little thing! Do you need to heal critters? No. By the way, smart heals don't work the way you describe them. You can *always* cast a non targeted heal like Breath of Life.
Can you soultrap critters? No! Are they a threat to you? NO!

Are they everywhere covering every inch of your screen? No. Don't act like they are preventing you from doing anything because they don't.

If you wanna kill rabbits, whack them with your weapon. And quit whining.

Censorious

Gaudrath wrote: »

That's actually a good change. Think for a bit. What's more important, being able to cast spells on critters, which does absolutely nothing, or being able to not accidentally target a rabbit hiding in a bush with your finisher and waste magicka/stamina instead of, you know, killing the monster it was supposed to hit.

Quit complaining about every little thing! Do you need to heal critters? No. By the way, smart heals don't work the way you describe them. You can *always* cast a non targeted heal like Breath of Life.
Can you soultrap critters? No! Are they a threat to you? NO!

Are they everywhere covering every inch of your screen? No. Don't act like they are preventing you from doing anything because they don't.

If you wanna kill rabbits, whack them with your weapon. And quit whining.

This^^
There's no reason to kill critters except in some sort of exploit mechanism (often abused in GW2)

I don't kill 'critters' in RL unless they are a genuine threat/problem, it's a warped thing to do - just bullying on a supernal scale.


Oh - and by the way, it's 'Effect'. 'Affect' means something else.

HandofBane

Censorious wrote: »

There's no reason to kill critters except in some sort of exploit mechanism (often abused in GW2)

Except for getting guts for fishing (which some people still do despite half the achievements not working properly), and for at least one quest which requires said animal bits to complete (Bleakrock Isle, not certain if any quests in other factions do yet).

dpgirl

Gaudrath wrote: »

That's actually a good change. Think for a bit. What's more important, being able to cast spells on critters, which does absolutely nothing, or being able to not accidentally target a rabbit hiding in a bush with your finisher and waste magicka/stamina instead of, you know, killing the monster it was supposed to hit.

Quit complaining about every little thing! Do you need to heal critters? No. By the way, smart heals don't work the way you describe them. You can *always* cast a non targeted heal like Breath of Life.
Can you soultrap critters? No! Are they a threat to you? NO!

Are they everywhere covering every inch of your screen? No. Don't act like they are preventing you from doing anything because they don't.

If you wanna kill rabbits, whack them with your weapon. And quit whining.

I hope this was sarcastic...

What I'm saying is... I cannot heal players with a heal spell because of a totally uninvolved critter in the crosshairs. My heals should heal players and not the critters, but the critters gray out my heal spells stopping me from healing players...

Aaklor

I just wanna kill the cats, wtf cant I kill the cats?!

Nazon_Katts

In order to heal players, aim at a player not a critter? Or the sky, there's less critters there, usually.

Innocente

Play the way you want to! Unless, of course, the way you want to play is NOT the way Z/B wants you to play! Then, you WILL play the way THEY want you to play!

Cannot use spells when critters are targeted. What a bunch of noob developers.

Eivar

The point, which the OP never clearly said, is that if you are fighting and a critter wanders into the fray you could very suddenly not be able to use any spells because it crosses your path......damned black cats.

A better solution for the consuming trap exploit would be to have the healing effect require more than 1hp to be consumed, or whatever threshhold would exclude critters.

rawne1980b16_ESO

ESO ... the game where a stray rabbit can lock out all your spells.

Gaudrath

dpgirl wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

That's actually a good change. Think for a bit. What's more important, being able to cast spells on critters, which does absolutely nothing, or being able to not accidentally target a rabbit hiding in a bush with your finisher and waste magicka/stamina instead of, you know, killing the monster it was supposed to hit.

Quit complaining about every little thing! Do you need to heal critters? No. By the way, smart heals don't work the way you describe them. You can *always* cast a non targeted heal like Breath of Life.
Can you soultrap critters? No! Are they a threat to you? NO!

Are they everywhere covering every inch of your screen? No. Don't act like they are preventing you from doing anything because they don't.

If you wanna kill rabbits, whack them with your weapon. And quit whining.

I hope this was sarcastic...

What I'm saying is... I cannot heal players with a heal spell because of a totally uninvolved critter in the crosshairs. My heals should heal players and not the critters, but the critters gray out my heal spells stopping me from healing players...

Ok, and how often does that happen? About as often as accidentally hitting a critter instead of the mob, which is more annoying because:

a) you still didn't do what you were supposed to do
b) you wasted resources

Personally, that happened to me about two times since day one, and I play pretty much every day.

The remedy is simple - aim at the players, not the floor. I assure you that there no critters that big.

Gaudrath

HandofBane wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

There's no reason to kill critters except in some sort of exploit mechanism (often abused in GW2)

Except for getting guts for fishing (which some people still do despite half the achievements not working properly), and for at least one quest which requires said animal bits to complete (Bleakrock Isle, not certain if any quests in other factions do yet).

Your weapon. Use it.

Gaudrath

Eivar wrote: »

The point, which the OP never clearly said, is that if you are fighting and a critter wanders into the fray you could very suddenly not be able to use any spells because it crosses your path......damned black cats.

A better solution for the consuming trap exploit would be to have the healing effect require more than 1hp to be consumed, or whatever threshhold would exclude critters.

That would have been a better solution, yes. But as devs had a different idea, I guess we have to take care where we're aiming. We're doomed, huh?

ArRashid

Gaudrath wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

The point, which the OP never clearly said, is that if you are fighting and a critter wanders into the fray you could very suddenly not be able to use any spells because it crosses your path......damned black cats.

A better solution for the consuming trap exploit would be to have the healing effect require more than 1hp to be consumed, or whatever threshhold would exclude critters.

That would have been a better solution, yes. But as devs had a different idea, I guess we have to take care where we're aiming. We're doomed, huh?

Yes we are... did you even notice how many critters are there in dungeons and outside of them? It's really friggin hard to heal now - aiming some frontal heal and "WTF" not working, why? Dead "- oh, I forgot", another dead "that there are critters wandering around" wipe..

BAD "fixing" is what ruined ESO. Each patch introduces more bugs and annoyances than it fixes... along with illogical decisions about the bot problem which so far have hurt only the regular PLAYERS, I guess this game's on highway to hell if they don't rethink their decision-making..

Eivar

Gaudrath wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

The point, which the OP never clearly said, is that if you are fighting and a critter wanders into the fray you could very suddenly not be able to use any spells because it crosses your path......damned black cats.

A better solution for the consuming trap exploit would be to have the healing effect require more than 1hp to be consumed, or whatever threshhold would exclude critters.

That would have been a better solution, yes. But as devs had a different idea, I guess we have to take care where we're aiming. We're doomed, huh?

If the targetting system were wholly perfect and not buggy I'd happily agree with your ridiculous attitude, but I can't tell you the number of times i've clearly had my crosshairs on a player target and had a critter come up as my target, or had to aim 6 feet to the left of a mob to target it because apparently the arm of another mob was in the way, their hitboxes can be a bit unwieldy, especiially on harvesters, trying to target a feast orb on the far side of a harvester usually means you can't actually target it and you're going to hit the harvester instead, even if you can clearly see and target it with your crosshairs.

Sakiri

HandofBane wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

There's no reason to kill critters except in some sort of exploit mechanism (often abused in GW2)

Except for getting guts for fishing (which some people still do despite half the achievements not working properly), and for at least one quest which requires said animal bits to complete (Bleakrock Isle, not certain if any quests in other factions do yet).

I know of no quest in Bleakrock that requires you to kill critters.

And this does affect people. Areas full of critters and crosshair targeting... spider caves for instance.

Sakiri

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

In order to heal players, aim at a player not a critter? Or the sky, there's less critters there, usually.

You do realize how healing works yes?

You dont target people you target area. Even frontal cones.

On top of it, "yes please could you stop moving in this pile of critters so I can heal you, thanks" is really going to go well.

nerevarine1138

This is a good change and a non-issue. As stated, critters were sometimes getting in the way of legitimate attacks, and that was a problem. See, I don't want to waste my spell on a squirrel instead of that boss I'm supposed to be fighting.

This doesn't affect heals at all, and if you want animal parts, you have a weapon.

F7sus4

They should have had balanced the game before releasing it and without any requests from the players!

dpgirl

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

This is a good change and a non-issue. As stated, critters were sometimes getting in the way of legitimate attacks, and that was a problem. See, I don't want to waste my spell on a squirrel instead of that boss I'm supposed to be fighting.

This doesn't affect heals at all, and if you want animal parts, you have a weapon.

You are wrong. This completely affects heals. It shouldn't affect heals. I have no problems with attack spells, or any targeted spell graying out over a critter. non-target AoE spells are getting grayed out. Like a heal that auto targets any player with low health and heals them... you CANNOT target the player and cast even if you want to, the heals are non-targetable, you do not get to choose the target, you just cast the spell, knowing its going to the nearest ally with lowest health. If a critter is in your crosshairs, which would not be affected at all by your power in any way, then your power is disabled... this MUST be an unintended bug, and they need to make it so spells that do NOT affect the current target do NOT get grayed out from having a critter for a target.

Singular

Why on earth would the game consider critters "friends" when it's making its check to see where the healing goes??? Before subsequently shutting off b/c you "can't" target them for spells...

Gwarok

Deer squirrels snakes.

At times when you run through the zone they're EVERYWHERE, especially in the evening; sadly it's serious overkill when I can hit them..BUT... the "herd(s)" needs to be culled every now and then or they're gonna over take the mobs that we gotta fight.

Just doing my part keeping mother nature in check.

#WabbitSeason

nerevarine1138

dpgirl wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

This is a good change and a non-issue. As stated, critters were sometimes getting in the way of legitimate attacks, and that was a problem. See, I don't want to waste my spell on a squirrel instead of that boss I'm supposed to be fighting.

This doesn't affect heals at all, and if you want animal parts, you have a weapon.

You are wrong. This completely affects heals. It shouldn't affect heals. I have no problems with attack spells, or any targeted spell graying out over a critter. non-target AoE spells are getting grayed out. Like a heal that auto targets any player with low health and heals them... you CANNOT target the player and cast even if you want to, the heals are non-targetable, you do not get to choose the target, you just cast the spell, knowing its going to the nearest ally with lowest health. If a critter is in your crosshairs, which would not be affected at all by your power in any way, then your power is disabled... this MUST be an unintended bug, and they need to make it so spells that do NOT affect the current target do NOT get grayed out from having a critter for a target.

Heals aren't targeted, so have you actually tried casting it even when grayed out? I've had plenty of bow skills show as grayed out, even when I'm within range, and I'm still able to cast them.

dpgirl

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Heals aren't targeted, so have you actually tried casting it even when grayed out? I've had plenty of bow skills show as grayed out, even when I'm within range, and I'm still able to cast them.

yes I've tried... they do not work. When I first noticed this right after 1.1.2, I couldn't figure out why my spells wouldn't work... it was later I noticed they were grayed out... and later on after that I figured out why they were graying out... critters. I tested on many types of critters in various zones on multiple characters, and its always the same.... my heals do not function if a critter is targeted, meaning it prevents me from healing myself or other players. I don't purposefully target critters, but now I have to take extra steps to make sure I'm NOT targeting one, even though I'm not actually trying to target anything, I'm just trying to watch the fight and HP bars over peoples heads.

Rocksteady

Critters have souls too and I should be able to trap them!

tanthil

dpgirl wrote: »

This is absolutely horrible.

Non-targeted powers like "heal closest ally" stuff, are grayed out and not usable when a critter is targeted, even though it couldn't possibly affect the critter... makes healing a PITA when critters are around graying out all my heals.

And where exactly have you found a situation in this game when critters are all around? let alone one that requires heals

CerberusCRW

I get the feeling that the people defending this decision to have critters lock out our healing spells have never healed in this game. I've died several times already due to critters wandering into my crosshare and locking my spells. They're all over the place and not just on the ground. Some of them, such as torchbugs, actually fly above the ground, right where you would be targeting regular mobs. An ability locking up for a few seconds may not be a big deal pre 50 but in veteran levels, it can make the difference between a successful battle and death.

As for the suggestion to "aim at the sky"... I'm just speechless. Why pay attention to the battle and worry about silly things like "blocking heavy attacks" or "dodging red areas" when you can gaze upon the stars (or ceiling) and blindly run around, throwing heals n stuff?

I don't think "watching out for critters" is an intended part of the game's healing mechanics. This is quite obviously an unintended side-effect to an exploit fix and unless people report the issue, it just won't get fixed.

I'm not upset at the developers for making this mistake, everyone makes mistakes, I'm just frustrated with people blindly defending the issue and taking cheap shots at those reporting them. We're not bashing the developers, I love this game, we're helping make it better.

dpgirl

tanthil wrote: »

And where exactly have you found a situation in this game when critters are all around? let alone one that requires heals

several places have tons of critters, especially many dungeons (solo and otherwise), they get in the crosshairs easy. Some outdoor areas have areas full of them, like torchbugs or spiders.

I do not think you understand how Healing spells work. I am not trying to heal the critter, I'm trying to heal players, but the critters disable my heal spells preventing me from healing other players. Now that I know what causes it I can quickly try to look elsewhere and get a heal off, but that second or 2 can cause a whole group wipe out, or myself to die while soloing.... especially since 'look elsewhere' makes me usually not able to see special attacks and red circles coming at me to defend.