Why Sorcerer's Bolt Escape is necessary

Maulkin

hk11 wrote: »

If I owned Zenimax I would just reduce the magicka of bolt escape by 50% and take the forums down for a week.

Haha, you earned a like. Humour is always welcome

Leovolao

true2moon_ESO wrote: »

leonardo.contrerasviub17_ESO wrote: »

I don't know why is it that people complain about DKs ingame and about BE on this forums. I'm a Sorc and I can tell you it's not a 100% escape, I've been hunted down many times. That being said, nerf are coming because the QQ about this is waaay too strong. I would suggest increasing the magicka cost a bit, but also increase it to 20 m or more depending of the increased cost. This change will allow us to still escape ganks, limit the offensive use and carefully planned the fight so sometimes we can get away mid fight and sometimes we simply get killed (ez kill is what this nerf is all about). Everybody happy

imagine if every class had this stupid skill, you would have next to no pvp. if you need to run so much you probably should not play a pvp game.

and what you been caught by 10 players chasing you? lol figures you no skill scrubs need this crutch of a garbage skill to play. I bet you are the same nub who cried about the vamp sprint, but yet, BE is ok?! lol

Dear God, how old are you? Such an angry little child

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO

dear zenimax, please transform all "nurv tha shiat out of bolt escape" posters temporary (24-48 hours) into a sorc....

and only transform them back after they cried you a river to do so

Witar

Yeah, right. Sorcerer can escape his death. So OP. And nightblade's invisibility and path of darkness is ok. Sorcerer is fine as it is, you're just playing your classes wrong.

RangerChad

So what about that Sorc I saw soloing 20 mobs standing in one spot spamming impulse?

jelliedsoup

Name one equivalent skill where you can get away from certain death? No? Mainly because there isn't one.

JoyEnergiser

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Every day somebody complains about bolt escape, well ill give you my opinion why it would destroy the class if anything happened.

Templar: Have a full tree to healing in Restoring Light

NightBlade: Have around 3 syphoning abilities that restore HP as well as a passive that boosts there effect

DragonKnight: Have 2 HP Regen abilities (Dragons blood and Inhale) as well as 2 passives that boost healing

Sorcerer: Has 1 HP regen ability and 1 HP boosting passive. Also, Sorcerer's HP ability will leave them idle for 3 seconds and reduce our stamina making us unable to block. There is one more ability that will heal slightly, but only once every 30 seconds and thats Twilight Matriarch.

Obviously, you can see our healing is very limited compared to other classes. This alone means, our only option is to escape and get to a safe distance to use Dark exchange..Removing or Nerfing bolt would mean when we use it, where stood in the enemies face for 3 seconds, it cant be spammed as it uses all your stamina and leaves you unable to block

People will say, but you can use a resto staff! That we can, but so can every other class. Even a DK can be swarmed by a mob, pop dragons blood, restoring heal and Inhale and have there hp full almost instantly, this can all be spammed and done whilst moving, this is not the case for our sorcerer.

Every class has abilities that root/snare - If you want people to stop spamming it, make it so it's usless when the user is rooted or snared. Then every class has a counter

Keep dreaming,No one else has an ability that makes them utterly unkillable while retreating NO ONE.So it needs to be tweaked,it's OP in PVP end of story.

Leovolao

JoyEnergiser wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Every day somebody complains about bolt escape, well ill give you my opinion why it would destroy the class if anything happened.

Templar: Have a full tree to healing in Restoring Light

NightBlade: Have around 3 syphoning abilities that restore HP as well as a passive that boosts there effect

DragonKnight: Have 2 HP Regen abilities (Dragons blood and Inhale) as well as 2 passives that boost healing

Sorcerer: Has 1 HP regen ability and 1 HP boosting passive. Also, Sorcerer's HP ability will leave them idle for 3 seconds and reduce our stamina making us unable to block. There is one more ability that will heal slightly, but only once every 30 seconds and thats Twilight Matriarch.

Obviously, you can see our healing is very limited compared to other classes. This alone means, our only option is to escape and get to a safe distance to use Dark exchange..Removing or Nerfing bolt would mean when we use it, where stood in the enemies face for 3 seconds, it cant be spammed as it uses all your stamina and leaves you unable to block

People will say, but you can use a resto staff! That we can, but so can every other class. Even a DK can be swarmed by a mob, pop dragons blood, restoring heal and Inhale and have there hp full almost instantly, this can all be spammed and done whilst moving, this is not the case for our sorcerer.

Every class has abilities that root/snare - If you want people to stop spamming it, make it so it's usless when the user is rooted or snared. Then every class has a counter

Keep dreaming,No one else has an ability that makes them utterly unkillable while retreating NO ONE.So it needs to be tweaked,it's OP in PVP end of story.

while I do agree it needs to be tweaked a little... it does not make you unkillable, I have been killed while playing my sorc, and I have been able to chase down alot of them with my DK. I don't think it's OP, a bolting soc usually is running away with his/her tail between his/her legs. Annoying? very much so.

Harakh

Still i say easy fix is, if the Sorc is rooted he should not be able to teleport like the NB Ambush/Lotus fan.

So you dont hurt the PvE Players and the PvP players need to doge than port, as everyone in this game.

Easy fix i think.

Leovolao

I would go with that... but then people would rage about sorcs not using stamina and being able to dodge and bolt away most of the time. Kids will only be happy when they double magicka cost and make the skill useless

AlexDrago

RangerChad wrote: »

So what about that Sorc I saw soloing 20 mobs standing in one spot spamming impulse?

It was DK.

Zeni can do every that they want with BE skill, or others skills. But they need to maintain balance between classes, and with the another useless skil what they think the Sorc must do at PvP? Be a staff healer?

Phantorang

dbennett707cub18_ESO wrote: »

Templar's defensive trait is superior healing and buffs. This means that they aren't good at running away, but then NB's and Sorc's aren't amazing healers/buffers like the DK and Templar.

Sorcs trait is Pets, so according to your logic the Sorcs shouldnt be good at getting away. Or because Sorc doesnt have a full defensive skill tree you think sorcs should have the single best and easiest getaway ability in the game? Jeez...

Templar got superior healing and buffs? thats funny, cause if we had to choose between Resto staff or Templar heals, resto staff wins.

Sorc got pets added to the equation. If we take away Templar heal tree and Sorc pet tree, they should be able to do the same amount of DPS. There is no reason why Templar should do less dps than sorc and DK

Phantorang

AlexDrago wrote: »

RangerChad wrote: »

So what about that Sorc I saw soloing 20 mobs standing in one spot spamming impulse?

It was DK.

Zeni can do every that they want with BE skill, or others skills. But they need to maintain balance between classes, and with the another useless skil what they think the Sorc must do at PvP? Be a staff healer?

NO, its Sorcerer with Critical Surge healing. With 50%+ crit chance and 50% of the crit damage is healing, the Sorc can tank, stay alive, heal himself AND do best DPS in the game (along with DK) at the same time.

Actually, the more mobs, the easier for the Sorc to stay alive.

And Bolt Escape is the only way to do PvP for a Sorc? Then why does so many Sorcs come along and tell Templars and NBs to learn to play their class without certain skills, when you cant even do it yourself?

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

I still don't get the big deal... how can an ability that simply gets you out of a fight be OP?

ForTheRealm

SilverWF wrote: »

Phantorang wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Bolt escape is OK.
Can't catch sorcerer? So bring ally sorcerer and problem solved.

Yeah, why not simply make 1 server for sorc, and 1 server for the rest.

It is not simple.
More simple if you will stop thinking you are lone hero.

Exactly, there can be only one "lone hero" class - Sorcerers... :-)

ForTheRealm

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

I still don't get the big deal... how can an ability that simply gets you out of a fight be OP?

It is not ability that "simply gets you out of a fight". It is ability that gets you into the right spot in the fight to nuke, and get you out of the fight if the fight starts too hot...
...and add stun effect...
...and add (when morphed) additional damage....
It is like "swiss army knife" ability.

Digiman

I am glad they fixed it so Bolt escape couldn't be used when carrying an elder scroll. However this whole class vs class balance idea is garbage when you can only use a small selection of abilities that fit every role in the game. Sure some abilities unique to class will seem more useful to others in certain situations but that certainly breaks up the monotony of everything being the same.

The best way to counter bolt escape would be a gap closer and every class can get one.

AlexDrago

Phantorang wrote: »

NO, its Sorcerer with Critical Surge healing. With 50%+ crit chance and 50% of the crit damage is healing, the Sorc can tank, stay alive, heal himself AND do best DPS in the game (along with DK) at the same time.

Actually, the more mobs, the easier for the Sorc to stay alive.

And Bolt Escape is the only way to do PvP for a Sorc? Then why does so many Sorcs come along and tell Templars and NBs to learn to play their class without certain skills, when you cant even do it yourself?

It would be greate help, if you show or find a video with that.
Cause Impulse can hit only 6 targets, with low damage and big mana cost.
BE is not the only way, but BE is a part of many builds, so nerfing BE must be with nerf Venom Arrow, Extanded Chains and many others.

bean19

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

bean19 wrote: »

NB with Path of Darkness and Shadow Form (or their morphs) can easily escape a fight and stealth away. If they have Mist Form from the vampire line, they can just run away. . . much faster than anyone but a sorc or another NB vampire can get to them.

Path of Darkness and Shadow Form are two non-healing defensive abilities. How many of those can you afford to have on your bar? Mist Form is a good, cheap escape but comes with the heavy penalty of huge fire damage vulnerability. Better avoid those DKs and the Fire Impulse zergs then.

I have said it 100 times and I'll say it again. When you walk (stealth or not) you are CC'able. When you teleport, you're not. That's the big difference

A lot of people have Caltrops these days on their 2nd bar because of the bug. When I see an NB trying to disappear, I throw caltrops at him and shield charge him down when he appears. In fact, if you're close enough, the AoE of the Talons catches him too.

Neither the caltrops, nor the Talons are a problem for the teleporting sorc.

Good post, but I'd argue that this is a problem with Nightblades needing a buff and not needing to nerf a sorc's main defensive ability - unless we are also nerfing every other classes defensive ability. Zenimax could go that way and it would work too. . . a nerf of DK's self-heals and buffs and templar heals/buffs (and resto-staff so it doesn't become OP as a result) and a nerf of sorc escape might be okay. I think it would *** off everyone in the game but NBs though, so I don't see it happening.

Also, I think it's worth noting that kills are incidental to larger goals in RvR. They help via force depletion and making people have to run back to the fight (or even go back to PvE if they are tired of running back to the fight. . . or, more likely, if they are actually taking objectives, then the zerg guild will guest another server to be able to continue zerging objectives for greater profit with less resistance). In light of the actual RvR objectives that are given decent rewards, the ability to escape from combat at the expense of being able to be effective in combat (no magicka, no damage) is not that big of a deal. The actual objectives with decent rewards are still being decided by who has the biggest and/or most determined zerg.

Now, if there were battlegrounds or arenas with even-teams, class balance in PvP would be more meaningful. As it stands, I think it should be back-burner. . . then again, this is obviously important to the devs. Whoever got them to make the game this way had to know that they are pitting half their endgame up against Guild Wars 2's endgame and Guild Wars 2 is free after the initial purchase. . . that doesn't seem like a wise investment of dev time to me - especially given that it came at the cost of any kind of instanced, even-team PvP that would allow us to have more skill-based competition.

madstoogb16_ESO

This guy is joking about the nightblade siphoning skills as decent healing yer? He has to be...

madstoogb16_ESO

Ruddertail wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm a vamp NB and no way are the two comparable. I rarely get away from a group using vamp mist.

Nightblades can literally outrun a streaking sorcerer with path of darkness. And they do it, they do it a lot. If I can't confuse them by switching directions or streaking through them for the disorient, once a good nightblade locks onto me I'm dead, teleport or no.

All it takes is running after me until I'm out of mana. (very quickly)

Also, rock on the ground, slight incline, a stump? I get caught on those. You don't.

Can cast path of darkness 2 times maybe 3 if poss and im out of mana... On top of that i would have to sprint burning my stam like mad and even then there is no way i could see my self catching a sorc blink 10 times.. Sorry but you are wrong.

And the path speed boost is only active while u are on the path, which is tiny by the way.

Tootall2186

Agree 100% OP. It was the same exact thing in gw2 with the ele and RTL. They destroyed eles mobility and destroy the class for over a year. It as so bad that there were zero, zero! Eles at the last pax tourney. It was sad and horrible.

The ability to be able to heal yourself with ease(temp), go invis(Nb), get an insane self heal(DK) leave few options for the sorc. The ability to make some breathing room is what equals the sorcs game play and skills out with the rest of the lot. It all comes down to people just not knowing how to play tbh. As much as I hate saying it, people need to l2p and learn how to counter every class and build each class has possible. You should know going Into a fight just by looking at your opponent what they're running, or possibly running. Counter and always try to anticipate their next move.

RangerChad

AlexDrago wrote: »

RangerChad wrote: »

So what about that Sorc I saw soloing 20 mobs standing in one spot spamming impulse?

It was DK.

Zeni can do every that they want with BE skill, or others skills. But they need to maintain balance between classes, and with the another useless skil what they think the Sorc must do at PvP? Be a staff healer?

I am 100% certain it was indeed, a sorc. He had a summon out too.

Vraneon

I have read through this post and it seems to me that people rage about bolt escape, because in some situation while PVPing the fight a sorc and want to kill him/her, but cannot catch up. This seems to be the only problem. Like you seek some sort of revenge or are sad you can't run away like them.

First of all: anyone can pick a sorcerer and play him teleporting through tamriel if he thinks its funny. Every class works different and has its own mechanism.

Second:

DK are obviously not ment to be running away, but that wouldn't fit into the role either. Run away dovahkhiin looks pretty dumb.

Templars are tanky too and/or have super high healing potential. That restoration staff argument is pointless, because any class can pick it and if a Templar chooses to he can tank superheal for a very long time too.

NB have a boost on invisbility and while other classes can also use potions NB have perks which makes them even last lonter. So their mechanism is burst down fast and hide. I have seen some good nightblades and some bad ones.
And there are quite a few who managed to hide even from magelight and teleporting searching players. And there surely are some very good Nightblades out there.

Sorcerer has bolt escape but no viable in-fight healing ability. Ppl who say sorc can use dark exchange in-fight are just dumb. You cant, you just loose stamina and wont heal up because the enemy attacks you meanwhile and maybe you get even stunned or interrupted if the enemy has a brain.

I also have experienced many times that a sorc got caught. If you want to catch a sorc build your character like that. Ofc a sorc can spam the ability BE, but whats the point of it? Escaping that's it. And it costs resources, quite some magicka. And if a sorc chooses to run away from a fight well, yes he can come back but it either takes ages to run back or he arrives with zero magicka and/or stamina again. Then theres a cooldown on pots too so he cant teleport away and come back like a newborn. If a sorc chooses to run away from a fight you can see it as a very long cc. Maybe it helps you psychologicaly? A dragonknight would just spam his healing ability instead. And while a sorc runs away: Yes you wont get ap from killing him. But the sorc wont get any alliance points either.

Again if you want to catch a sorc, its doable its not that hard. Just use correct skills, potions, mundus stones, armour, etc. And if you want to teleport around because you like it? Just become a sorc and do it. Stop whining around like little kids. Yes that's how you want to play? Become a sorcerer. Nobody says you cant. Im also not going on forums, because I cannot become elusive mist or because I cannot heal myself or have a class internal hide ability.

About half of times you can catch a sorcerer, when he is playing like a coward and you don't even need to be build like some sort of sorc hunter. Just use your horse if you want to chase him across whole cyrodiil.

bean19

Edit: Deleted. Nothing new was being added to the conversation with it.

ItsRejectz

Reduce the cost a bit and make it dos o BE can not be uses when snared or rooted. Fixed

Aaklor

It won't get nerfed because don't spam it.

ItsRejectz

Aaklor wrote: »

It won't get nerfed because don't spam it.

Check the PTS patch notes, in 1.2 bolt is getting nerfed. It will now cost 50% more each time you use it, if you use it in under 4 seconds

xaraan

Sorcs healing from crit surge is better than most any of the nightblade heals. Those DOTs NBs get do zero help in PvP and are only good to offer a little relief in some PvE instaces (and any player can get entropy, which does similar). If you need healing to save your life in PvP, it's going to come from either Templar, DK self heal, or using a resto staff).