Dark Talons & Inhale killed for PvE in effort to balance PvP

Sadae

Dark Talons: Reduced the overall radius.

Inhale (and morphs): This ability’s initial life drain morphs can now hit a maximum of three targets. This also applies to Inhale’s morphs.

This is just WRONG!

Dark Talons is a mandatory crowd control skill for group dungeons, and you just killed that.

Inhale was already hard to justify using in PvE, and now it's not an option at all.

If you want to balance PvP, please find a way to do so without killing PvE.

Tarukmockto

The classic problem of balancing every MMO that has both forms of play style. It's never right for somebody. The only time balance is correct for both, is when both type of players are unhappy.

ElliottXO

They should've decreased the cost for dodge roll instead.

It's basically useless if you don't have medium armour or are a complete magicka build.

It costs my tank so much stamina I rather take the CC effect.

Infraction

Does this affect their ability to solo veteran dungeons?

Nox_Aeterna

So your logic is ... one class should have a OP must have skill , in order for people to do dungeons?

If ONE skill like talons is a MUST for dungeons , then it past the time zen also look into those fights.

Gisgo

It must be a nightmare to pve with a DK now.
Trolololol...

monkeymystic

Inhale never was strong in PvP either though (the only thing was no AoE cap).

It would have been enough with the 6 cap. But they nerfed it so the expensive and uneffective Inhale now belongs in the garbage.

Demli

I never even unlocked dark talons on my DK... never had an issue without it.

Sadae

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

So your logic is ... one class should have a OP must have skill , in order for people to do dungeons?

If ONE skill like talons is a MUST for dungeons , then it past the time zen also look into those fights.

Well then by your logic the sorc's best AoE spell needs to be nerfed, as well as every healer's best heal spell. Please, respond with an opinion that has valid meaning or not at all.

tordr86b16_ESO

Tarukmockto wrote: »

The classic problem of balancing every MMO that has both forms of play style. It's never right for somebody. The only time balance is correct for both, is when both type of players are unhappy.

ArcheAge has done it without impairing PvE, ZOS are just lazy or don't have the time it takes to do it right.

tordr86b16_ESO

Demli wrote: »

I never even unlocked dark talons on my DK... never had an issue without it.

It's mandatory for group play (dungeons), as there isn't any aoe taunt in this game.

Nox_Aeterna

Sadae wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

So your logic is ... one class should have a OP must have skill , in order for people to do dungeons?

If ONE skill like talons is a MUST for dungeons , then it past the time zen also look into those fights.

Well then by your logic the sorc's best AoE spell needs to be nerfed, as well as every healer's best heal spell. Please, respond with an opinion that has valid meaning or not at all.

They are not a MUST , do please note which sorc AoE dmg spells are a MUST in order for you do to dungeons.

IF any of those are really a MUST , then yeah , they should be looking into and make sure the game does not REQUIRE them in order for you to win by giving other options.

NO single spell should be a MUST , even more a class spell which makes a class a requirement to beat said dungeons.

vicNBitis

I hear Volcanic Rune is nice.

I've been waiting so long to say that to a DK but, sadly, now's not a good time. Talons is still crazy OP. Get over it.

monkeymystic

Well, Sorcerors should shake now when they see how much shortsighted stuff they can do to an ability like Inhale...

Sorcerors are the FOTM class now you know (it was OP before too, but still)..

Since they nerfed the subpar Inhale into useless, they prolly gonna nerf Sorceror pets next up lol

Liquid_Time

@Nox_Aeterna
Well Said ^^

Sadae

@Nox_Aeterna - Taunt is a MUST for every tank too. Should they nerf that too then? Your argument is still invalid. Dark Talons is a DK's only measure of AoE crowd control, we don't HAVE other options.

Nox_Aeterna

Sadae wrote: »

@Nox_Aeterna - Taunt is a MUST for every tank too. Should they nerf that too then? Your argument is still invalid. Dark Talons is a DK's only measure of AoE crowd control, we don't HAVE other options.

Indeed , and they should give more OPTIONS for you to TAUNT , not make it less important, still , taunt is not that much of a problem because any tank can get it. You need heals to heal , Dmg skill to dps and tank skills to tank.

Nope , use vulcanic rune , which makes this whole point hilarious because DKs have been telling others to just use it for weeks now.

My point stands , no single skill should be a must , if it is , then they should look into the fights or rework the classes.

Sadae

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

taunt is not that much of a problem because any tank can get it. You need heals to heal , Dmg skill to dps

Any healer can get heals, and any DPS can get dmg skills; same argument. Why do you insist on singling out the DK skills as somehow unique?

Sheneria

Learn to Play.

Nox_Aeterna

Sadae wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

taunt is not that much of a problem because any tank can get it. You need heals to heal , Dmg skill to dps

Any healer can get heals, and any DPS can get dmg skills; same argument. Why do you insist on singling out the DK skills as somehow unique?

Well you said it:

Sadae wrote: »

Dark Talons is a mandatory crowd control skill for group dungeons, and you just killed that.

If it is , time to change that.

If DK skills are not unique and you accept the vulcanic rune , why are you complaining and saying it is a must?

Sadae

Sheneria wrote: »

Learn to Play.

Oh, of course! Why didn't I think of that? You just single-handedly invalidated my entire argument! Thank you!

Sadae

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Sadae wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

taunt is not that much of a problem because any tank can get it. You need heals to heal , Dmg skill to dps

Any healer can get heals, and any DPS can get dmg skills; same argument. Why do you insist on singling out the DK skills as somehow unique?

Well you said it:

Sadae wrote: »

Dark Talons is a mandatory crowd control skill for group dungeons, and you just killed that.

If it is , time to change that.

If DK skills are not unique and you accept the vulcanic rune , why are you complaining and saying it is a must?

So you're saying that now "Volcanic Rune" just became the must-have AoE CC skill. Guess that needs to be nerfed too then according to your logic.

But then again, if you're just saying that we have another option and that "Dark Talons" isn't in fact "must have", then your logic fails yet again.

No matter how you try to spin it, you are singling out DK skills without any logic that doesn't also apply to other class skills.

Napkins

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

So your logic is ... one class should have a OP must have skill , in order for people to do dungeons?

If ONE skill like talons is a MUST for dungeons , then it past the time zen also look into those fights.

What!?!? How dare dks have a reliable ability CC that no other class can get.

How dare they, this throws off any balance this game has!!! NERF!!!

niocwy

Talons is in NO WAY mandatory. And seriously the skill is still very valuable after the patch. Same with inhale.

"OMG it's killing PVE" *whine whine whine*

Stop complaining and learn to play with the new rules.

Drachenfier

Tarukmockto wrote: »

The classic problem of balancing every MMO that has both forms of play style. It's never right for somebody. The only time balance is correct for both, is when both type of players are unhappy.

No, this is a classic problem of devs kneejerk reactions to a video they saw or a bunch of spammed whine threads. Inhale was mediocre at best before the nerf, and they didn't even bother reducing the cost, just slapped a stupid nerf on it without much thought and now the skill is pretty much completely useless. Crap like this is what really turns me off to pvp "balancing".

Sadae

niocwy wrote: »

Talons is in NO WAY mandatory. And seriously the skill is still very valuable after the patch.

If they reduced a sorc's best AoE damage skill by 25% simply because it was overpowered in PvP would you say the same thing?

Drachenfier

niocwy wrote: »

Talons is in NO WAY mandatory. And seriously the skill is still very valuable after the patch. Same with inhale.

"OMG it's killing PVE" *whine whine whine*

Stop complaining and learn to play with the new rules.

In what way is Inhale valuable now? It still costs the same metric crapton of magicka it cost before, only now it hits a measly three targets for crap damage and crap heal. Seriously?

Ser Lobo

The question can't focus on what players who were comfortable using the mechanic before must do now. It has to focus on what players who are new to the mechanic now can do.

The reason for this is simple: if a player relies on vampire ultimate stacking bats aoe, or DK talon spam and ultimate generation, or stam stacking bash spam ... they are obviously going to be completely crippled by these changes. No more VR dungeons for them.

If a player didn't rely on those skills, maybe using them lightly, or just not to optimal effect ... they won't be put off near as much. They'll still be in VR dungeon groups running VR dungeon runs, just fine.


The real positive impact is for EVERYONE else. We're not just talking about the player opponents in PvP you are playing with. We're also talking about the players who you PvE with, who can't possibly keep up with your damage output no matter what they do, without them being forced to either roll DK, pick up sword and board, and/or become a vampire.

In these cases, I fully support the suffering of the few (who experience has shown will simply migrate to the next FotM mechanic in two weeks instead of adjusting their playstyle to be less 'glitch' dependent), for the enjoyment and fairness of the many.

Ser Lobo

Drachenfier wrote: »

niocwy wrote: »

Talons is in NO WAY mandatory. And seriously the skill is still very valuable after the patch. Same with inhale.

"OMG it's killing PVE" *whine whine whine*

Stop complaining and learn to play with the new rules.

In what way is Inhale valuable now? It still costs the same metric crapton of magicka it cost before, only now it hits a measly three targets for crap damage and crap heal. Seriously?

It has the same value as Snipe or Arrow Spray for archers. Which is honestly 'why waste the resources when there are better options'. Problem is, every class has about a handful or more of those abilities, Nightblades and Templars more than most.

kosten07

• Nerfing PvE abilities for PvP ruins the game for players that enjoy PvE over PvP

I say this as a PvE player that enjoys PvP but mostly focuses on PvE. When changes like this come out and my ability to play the way I've enjoyed in PvE is changed because of PvP, it is very frustrating.

Instead of nerfing they should be looking a buffing the other abilities in all classes to make them useful in both PvE and PvP.

Also, seriously the fire effects were amazing in Destruction and I often commented to my friends about how great it looks. The "new" fire effect for Wall of Elements (morphed into Elemental Blockade) look terrible. Just some poorly designed cracks in the ground.

Stop complaining and learn to play with the new rules.

I don't get these types of comments from players. Don't you think we should be giving input back to Zenimax on what we like since its our money we are spending. Besides developers need to be taken to task and pressured to deliver what we want.

Sadae

@ruze84b14_ESO - I would agree except for the most important thing: These two skills were fine for PvE the way they were, and not overpowered at all. (In fact, Inhale was still mostly useless even before the nerf.) Making PvE abilities suffer in an effort to balance PvP is not a valid solution. Besides, isn't Talons maxed at 6 targets now? (Assuming it wasn't before, I've never actually tested that myself.) Why the need to reduce the radius as well?