Bash done for??

merrickci

What are your thoughts on them decreasing the damage on shield bash, and increasing the stamina costs?

I currently use 1h/s setup on my templar, and for one did not feel it was op,but then again I didnt use and bash glyphs.

merrickci

Edit I never used the bash glyphs. Also if it is nerfed to nothing, what will a 1h/s player who wants to dps be using instead of bash?

TheBull

double post.

TheBull

merrickci wrote: »

What are your thoughts on them decreasing the damage on shield bash, and increasing the stamina costs?

I currently use 1h/s setup on my templar, and for one did not feel it was op,but then again I didnt use and bash glyphs.

My thoughts-
"bash noobs" will have to l2p.
Fun times ahead.
To the ground!

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Good. Glad to see bash spam flung into oblivion.

You at least get the points you spent into deadly bash back, tho you would probably still want them for the reduced stamina cost of interrupts.

merrickci

So im assuming if you have 3 pieces of bash jewlry after patch on it will pretty much be like having none equiped pre patch. still able to be effective.

If not def gonna have to rework my skill bar for 1h/s dps

Creslian7

merrickci wrote: »

Edit I never used the bash glyphs. Also if it is nerfed to nothing, what will a 1h/s player who wants to dps be using instead of bash?

There are so many things wrong with that question. No one can be that obtuse this must obviously be sarcasm or trollbait.

kirnmalidus

merrickci wrote: »

Also if it is nerfed to nothing, what will a 1h/s player who wants to dps be using instead of bash?

If you want to DPS then one-hand and shield shouldn't be the best choice of weapons. With this weapon set you are choosing to give up approximately half of your damage dealing potential in exchange for improved defense. It's a setup that should be used by tanks, not DPS.

Getting highest DPS in the game by using a shield and bashing enemies was broken.

Heraclea

My concern is that my character will no longer be able to effectively solo, having specialized in 1h/shield and building for survivability. My chief concern in any game is to avoid frustration.

If the PvP children have broken this, it seems likely that I will have to abandon my main, which will almost certainly mean abandoning the game.

Reevster

Heraclea wrote: »

My concern is that my character will no longer be able to effectively solo, having specialized in 1h/shield and building for survivability. My chief concern in any game is to avoid frustration.

If the PvP children have broken this, it seems likely that I will have to abandon my main, which will almost certainly mean abandoning the game.

I think you will do just fine, you just wont be OPed in bashing anymore.

eliisra

Heraclea wrote: »

If the PvP children have broken this, it seems likely that I will have to abandon my main, which will almost certainly mean abandoning the game.

If this only affected PvP, the hotfix would be years from now. This is equally broken in PvE.

You shouldn't have higher dps with a shield pressing 2 buttons, than (while being vulnerable to cc and dmg) using actual weapons and skills.

I love bash spam myself, not going to lie. But it trivializes and negates so much difficulty when soloing.

Hopefully this fix doesn't mean the tanking skill line will be to weak. They do tend to overdo it sometimes. Mainly considering how they aren't buffing and fixing class skills BEFORE they nerf world and weapon skills.

ckf12b14_ESO

That's the thing; tank's are not supposed to do damage, they're supposed to hold aggro and take a beating while someone /else/ does the damage. A tank bashing for more damage than the two specialized DPS in the same group is way out of line.

Reevster

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

That's the thing; tank's are not supposed to do damage, they're supposed to hold aggro and take a beating while someone /else/ does the damage. A tank bashing for more damage than the two specialized DPS in the same group is way out of line.

I guess you never watched "300" then.

NordJitsu

I've tested it on the PTS.

Its still REALLY REALLY good.

merrickci

Yeah spartans had shields, and they had better dps than the persians with 2h spears... what gives

NordJitsu wrote: »

I've tested it on the PTS.

Its still REALLY REALLY good.

What is really really good? the nerf or bash is still an option?

ckf12b14_ESO

Reevster wrote: »

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

That's the thing; tank's are not supposed to do damage, they're supposed to hold aggro and take a beating while someone /else/ does the damage. A tank bashing for more damage than the two specialized DPS in the same group is way out of line.

I guess you never watched "300" then.

Yeah, they need shield bash nerf ASAP. wtf zos y no nerf to spartans op class

Heraclea

I was hoping I would be able to make a character that fought with weapons; I generally don't play spellcasting characters by preference. And I expect that I will be able to solo effectively on a tank. And I expect tanks to be irrelevant in PvP like they are in any other game.

I find that it's difficult to break up spawns or only pull one of three in this game, and there are too many spawns that scatter, and not enough terrain to line them up most places.

I found myself using Shield Bash liberally mostly because I all but had to be blocking most of the time. Reliance on such things as self-heals always fails because there's just too much stuff coming at you, you can't fight and move at the same time, and the client just isn't responsive enough to let you. Letting it down just leads to forced AFK (i.e. mob CC and golfing) and frustration. 1h/shield is the only weapons skill I've really developed, since 2h didn't seem to offer as much in comparison.

liquid_wolf

The damage has been reduced if you spam it.
The damage has been buffed if you stop a cast/channel.

Overall... so many NPCs try to charge/channel/cast that it will probably be a non-issue.

In the case of bosses that are immune to the Bash CC... they may have actually given us a damage boost.The bash stun won't affect them, but perhaps the damage is still increased since the NPC was channeling/casting.

All Hail The Bash!

NordJitsu

merrickci wrote: »

Yeah spartans had shields, and they had better dps than the persians with 2h spears... what gives

NordJitsu wrote: »

I've tested it on the PTS.

Its still REALLY REALLY good.

What is really really good? the nerf or bash is still an option?

@merrickci‌

Shield bash is still really really good....silly pants.

Maverick827

Are the bash cost reduction glyphs worth testing?

Soliduparrow

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

A tank bashing for more damage than the two specialized DPS in the same group is way out of line.

That could never happen unless the DPS were terrible or the tank was overleveled/overgeared. Bashing and blocking both use stamina. The blocking from tanking drains stamina too fast for the tank to do good dps.

Soliduparrow

Maverick827 wrote: »

Are the bash cost reduction glyphs worth testing?

They are only worth it if you use stamina based skills or if you are actually tanking. You won't run out of stamina if you are just using bash.

I don't know how much they nerfed it but I still think it will be good for NB. I don't have to dodge most of the red circles because i'm blocking the whole time and the bash is mainly used for animation cancelling.

Ffolks

I'm just amazed that people cried nerf over bash, a single target ability, when there's people running around in light armor and a staff taking down groups of 6+ V11 mobs in Craglorn. On my NB I'm having difficulty now taking down a group of two V10s and prior to the patch I could handle 3 max, and I never stacked bash buffs either.

I could change I suppose, and jump on the staff bandwagon, put I chose sword and shield in beta because I liked the aesthetic and it was viable. It's not now and I'm discouraged from playing. I can no longer play *my* way.

They should have compensated for the lost DPS in another ability in the sword and shield line.

No longer having fun.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

bash damage is approximately half of what it was prenerf.

however fixing bash just further emphasizes the fact that weapon skills are subpar across the board.

im not going to say sword and board needs a buff. its supposed to be a tanking line. not a dps line. however the dps lines 2hander, dw, and bow are all inferior to any class skill line. and stamina as a whole is not as effective as magika. its further reduced by the light armor cost reduction. and that most set bonuses are geared towards magika and not stamina.

so lets look at the armor imbalance and how it affects stamina builds
light
21% cost reduction
28% magika regen
42% spell penetration
56% spell resistance buff
10% spell crit

now med
21% crit
28% stam regen
35% sneak detection 48% sneak cost
10% haste ( for heavy attacks only)
21% sprint speed 28% roll dodge cost

its very easy to see why light armor is the only effective choice for any class. not only do spells cost less. they hit harder with the spell penetration.
and with class self armor buffs or a couple of rings of decrease physical harm you soft cap both armor and spell resistance easily. completely negating any need for heavy armor other than the immoveable ability.

my suggestion is this.
med armor
buff the worthless agility perk with a cost reduction 2%/4% per peice. or increase feat damage by 2/4% per peice.
buff athletics with armor penetration


heavy armor.
buff consitution with a max 14% reduction for both stam and magika.
double the benefits of resolve. and increase amor softcap.
add resource steal proc to juggernaut.


once the armor imbalance is fixed it will be far easier to adjust the skills to be more balanced.

Baphomet

Magicka abilities have to hit a bit harder because the innate spell resistance is higher than armor rating on all characters. In heavy and medium armor you can overcharge both spell resistance and armor rating without using any buffs - you can't in light, to my knowledge.

Also, a 42% spell penetration doesn't mean that you do close to double damage, which many people seem to believe. Oh no, far, far from it. Can't recall the exact number from my head, but I believe that 1250 armor is roughly 22% mitigation. Say that a character has around 1800 spell resistance and light armored opponent attacks with a spell. Then the 42% spell penetration would ignore around 750 of that spell resistance, the damage boost is actually minor - unless you're using a high damage spells like crystals shards or dark flare.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

Baphomet wrote: »

Magicka abilities have to hit a bit harder because the innate spell resistance is higher than armor rating on all characters. In heavy and medium armor you can overcharge both spell resistance and armor rating without using any buffs - you can't in light, to my knowledge.

incorrect. my sorc has both spell and armor overcharged. in a full light armor set. by using 2 rings of decrease physical harm (510 armor per ring). no spell buff needed. so tank like armor. cheap spells. innate spell penetration. what exactly is heavy buying me? oh and i still have room for warlock, seducers and willows path sets. and i completely forgot about the spell penetration from destro staff. or if im feeling bored. how about 40% more spell penetration from pierce armor.

you were saying something about resists being usefull? and magika needing to hit harder because of them? basic math. 56% from armor, 12 from sharpened, 10 from destro staff. thats 78% spell penetration. so that 1600 spell resist is really 380 ish. or essentially non existant.

and a full light set means your overcharged spell resist doesnt do jack squat. as 56% innate spell penetration goes right through it,. are you starting to see why there is an armor inbalance. and lets not forget the crits. 10% from light. 20% from inner light.. another 5% from flame staff. another 5% from willows path and on and on.

Wifeaggro13

TheBull wrote: »

merrickci wrote: »

What are your thoughts on them decreasing the damage on shield bash, and increasing the stamina costs?

I currently use 1h/s setup on my templar, and for one did not feel it was op,but then again I didnt use and bash glyphs.

My thoughts-
"bash noobs" will have to l2p.
Fun times ahead.
To the ground!

Thats partilly true Bashing was lame . but melee in general is in *** shape. i would gather everyone will go hundings now the problem is Destro staff users will use it now and decimate melee players on all fronts

Kalman

Jeremy_gelber_ESO wrote: »

bash damage is approximately half of what it was prenerf.

Not True at all.

I have a VR1 in lvl 45 gear with Deadly Bash II

Pre 1.1.2 to VR1 Sea Viper Marine that spying on ship in Khenarthi's Roost

Deadly Bash II Bash cost 98 sta

Deadly Bash II = 229 dmg
Deadly Bash II Interrupt Cast = 229 dmg
Deadly Bash II Bash Sneak Attack = 971 dmg

Deadly Bash II w/ring +16 bash dmg = 254 dmg
Deadly Bash II Interrupt Cast w/ring +16 bash dmg = 254 dmg
Deadly Bash II Bash Sneak Attack w/ring +16 bash dmg = 996 dmg

Post 1.1.2 to VR1 Sea Viper Marine that spying on ship in Khenarthi's Roost

No Deadly Bash Bash cost 196 sta

No Deadly Bash = 45 dmg
No Deadly Bash Interrupt Cast = 112 dmg
No Deadly Bash Sneak Attack = 192 dmg

No Deadly Bash w/ring +16 bash dmg = 54 dmg
No Deadly Bash w/ring +16 bash dmg Interrupt Cast = 123 dmg
No Deadly Bash w/ring +16 bash dmg Sneak Attack = 206 dmg

Deadly Bash II Bash cost 118 sta

Deadly Bash II = 78 dmg
Deadly Bash II Interrupt Cast = 195 dmg
Deadly Bash II Sneak Attack = 333 dmg

Deadly Bash II w/ring +16 bash dmg = 89 dmg
Deadly Bash II w/ring +16 bash dmg Interrupt Cast = 223 dmg
Deadly Bash II w/ring +16 bash dmg Sneak Attack = 360 dmg

Maverick827

My bash damage is 1/3 of what it was.

Arundo

I also leveled mostly using shield bash, I was not aware of any of these topics. I just thought it was a good way to kill stuff. Now that I think of it, it might have been a bit too good.

Just sucks that I now have to relearn something else to kill stuff, a well luckily this game gives you lots of options to do so.

Anyway as to comment on the OP, yes Bash as a DPS ability is done for.

cazlonb16_ESO

Arundo wrote: »

Just sucks that I now have to relearn something else to kill stuff, a well luckily this game gives you lots of options to do so.

Unfortunately everything that's not a staff is subpar at the moment.