Male and Female Variants of Costumes

Gidorick

I feel that ZOS should make it so that we have male and female variants of most costumes. This would make it so that most costumes come in a bundle. Initially my thought was that the costumes would change depending on the sex of the character but I realize that this would be a bad move. Removing player agency is NEVER a good thing... no matter how annoying players can be with that freedom.

So a VERY slight alteration of my original concept would simply see every gender skewing costume paired with a costume for the opposite sex. This way players would get two costumes instead of one.

Some costumes are unisex, like the Court Jester so they wouldn't have a different costume:

Certain costumes would be very similar in their male and female variants, such as the Summit Lord's Silken Robes, which could just need a different cut to be a "female" version:

Some would be a similar in style but would just be a different costume for the opposite sex. Such as the White Wedding Dress:

and the Blue Wedding suit:

Some wouldn't need much revision at all, such as the Sand-Kissed outfit recently released

Thoughts?

Thevampirenight

They do need to do this, for all costumes me thinks.

Jakhajay

I'm just wondering why my Summit Lord's Silken Robes don't have this buckles in it's belt like the one above does

Necrelios

As many others have stated, until they introduce dye-able costumes, I will continue boycotting costumes altogether. Although it would be cool if they could introduce a wider variety of non weird snowflake design costumes for men who prefer not wearing dresses. The noble suit was a good design, but it really should have been dye-able. It's a simple matter of applying the same shaders as regular armors that allows for this, and it's only laziness that can explain why this has not been implemented yet. So many other games have gone out of their way to apply cool effects to custom skins and armors based on user input. This seems really primitive that it has taken so long and still have not seen this yet in ESO.

Anhedonie

Nah, where is fun in that?
Male orc in a wedding dress is the best!

Gidorick

I think there are many people, like myself, that would find it much more fun to not have male orcs in wedding dresses running about. Of course, the fact that some of don't care for male orcs in wedding dresses most of the fun, eh @Anhedonie ?

RAGUNAnoOne

Anhedonie wrote: »

Nah, where is fun in that?
Male orc in a wedding dress is the best!

Toggle for opposite sex costumes please sex does not equal gender after all

MarrazzMist

Please no. "Eternity tunic with pants" is the only costume I've purchased (ups, apart from blacksmith one) and it looks just the way I like on my female khajiit. I find girly stuff easily boring.

I do understand big orc-nord-argonian males in a dresses might give shivers to some people, but let them have their sweet and innocent fun

I'm fine with costumes as there are. But if there must be a change, I'm more for dyes than even toggleable gender costumes.

Gidorick

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Nah, where is fun in that?
Male orc in a wedding dress is the best!

Toggle for opposite sex costumes please sex does not equal gender after all

Well, ESO doesn't allow us to choose our gender identification so I guess we should just go with the sex of the player character. Interesting mechanic idea for a game though! it would end up having 4 gender groups

Male-Male
Male-Female
Female-Female
Female-Male

Gidorick

MarrazzMist wrote: »

Please no. "Eternity tunic with pants" is the only costume I've purchased (ups, apart from blacksmith one) and it looks just the way I like on my female khajiit. I find girly stuff easily boring.

I do understand big orc-nord-argonian males in a dresses might give shivers to some people, but let them have their sweet and innocent fun

I'm fine with costumes as there are. But if there must be a change, I'm more for dyes than even toggleable gender costumes.

This would be an issue @MarrazzMist, making that decision of what outfits should be radically different for the different sexes and which would just be a slight variation. For me... the distinction is quite easy but that's because it's my opinion... and it's not the "right" answer... it's just my opinion. I want to get it out there that I am not suggesting that female=dress. Nor am I suggesting male=pants.

And it's not that I get "shivers"... it's that I question the intention. Those male characters in dresses... how many are legitimately playing characters who are transgender and how many just think it's funny that others might find it irritating that they are a man in a dress?

Mostly though... it's that this just looks terrible:


And I would totally buy that outfit if we could have a male variation:

But @RAGUNAnoOne is right... a "gender" toggle in the options menu would probably be the best route to go here.

MarrazzMist

Yeah, female costumes on males do look funny. Male costumes on the other hand mostly look good on females. For example male wedding suit and noble suit look stylish indeed worn by female characters. Thus male characters leave with less options.

Toggle would solve the issue. But as a fan of simplicity, I might still vote for just keep them as they are.

AlienSlof

Gidorick wrote: »

I feel that ZOS should make it so that we have male and female variants of most costumes. Then the costume would change depending on the sex of the character wearing it.

Some costumes are unisex, like the Court Jester:

Certain costumes would be very similar in their male and female variants, such as the Summit Lord's Silken Robes, which could just need a different cut to be a "female" version:

Some would be a similar in style but would just be a different costume for the opposite sex. Such as the White Wedding Dress:

and the Blue Wedding suit:

Some wouldn't need much revision at all, such as the Sand-Kissed outfit recently released

Thoughts?

I agree totally. I know the costumes all work on either gender, but I'd like to see equality - showing skin on males, but in a male style, not just man in women's clothes! Or woman in a man's clothes! I want to see sexy clothes for men too. We girls like our eye candy too, you know!

sdtlc

Fix me first!!



This is so disturbing in many ways,....

MornaBaine

Or HERE'S a crazy idea.... when you buy a costume you get both the male and female versions. They are in separate places in your costume tab. You CHOOSE which one you want to wear, regardless of character sex. If you feel your male Orc simply MUST wear a wedding DRESS, well, you'll still be able to and can rest content in the knowledge that I'll keep on rolling my eyes every time I see you because the joke is no longer really all that funny even if it DID make me giggle the first few times.

And for those of you who prefer the look of the male costumes on their females, you'll still then be able to use them that way as well. Maybe it's not fair but Western society has now pretty firmly established that "girls can wear boy clothes" while we still, in general, look down on "boys who wear girl clothes." So it comes down to what the player is comfortable with. So I think ZOS is on the right track by making is so either sex can wear any costume. Let's keep that. Even if many of the female costumes DO look terrible on males because of the way they distort the body and give all the dudes "moobs."

Gidorick you are definitely on to something though as well. EVERY costume needs to have both a male and female variant. And I LOVE your suggestions for the already existing costumes.

What I really DON'T want to see is:
1. Way MORE female costumes than male costumes. Do NOT go the way of EA with The Sims ZOS where female characters have well more than three times the clothing options of males. Just NO. Keep it EVEN.
2. Female characters being the only sex that gets scanty attire. That IS a display of sexism ZOS and I had HOPED you were above that. But the differences between the male and female "Redguard" clothing is not looking like a good trend. FIX IT. Put out Redguard female costumes that are as covering as the male ones you have shown in the concept art and don't be jerks and make it look just like the male stuff. Then ALSO put put some male stuff along the lines of what Gidorick has shown you here as a male variant.

Lastly, it would have been nice if you'd given us the ability to make more androgynous looking characters. You can make female characters that look fairly "butch" but for most of the races there's no way in Hades you can make anything other than a stereotypical "manly man." You did the right thing in your portrayal of Tamriel as a world that does not view same gender couples as in any way abnormal or abhorrent. For that you are to be commended, certainly. It would have been nice if you'd gone the extra mile and made things to where players with less than stereotypical concepts of gender could have characters they genuinely feel comfortable with and/or enjoy making.

AlienSlof

^ Agree totally. ^

TheShadowScout

I mostly like the option to have characters "disguise" themselves for RP purposes - including a bit of crossdressing on occasion. My tomboyish main bounty huntress likes to wear the male suits for a androgynous look sometimes... it suits her well enough.
Of course, I for one keep it reasonable, my mustached nord warrior wouldn't go near wearing a dress... my cute dunmer librarian boy might should it make sense in some "disguise to exacpe guards" RP.

Though I can understand the argument... and in some cases I would lean towards supporting it. The sand-kissed outfit would be suitable for a second "vest" version for boys for example...

So, what I would LOVE to see was not the costume itself changing automatically depending on the wearers gender, but some costumes getting two sets of visuals in one package, one fitted for girls, and one fitted for boys, and let people decide which to wear... (Bonus points if they could make the game "react" to crossdressing characters with different dialouge options...)

Robotmafia

sdtlc wrote: »

Fix me first!!



This is so disturbing in many ways,....

lol those shoulders look way to big for ur char... they look like they are hanging out way to far... ur guys needs to eat :P

LadyNalcarya

MornaBaine wrote: »

Or HERE'S a crazy idea.... when you buy a costume you get both the male and female versions. They are in separate places in your costume tab. You CHOOSE which one you want to wear, regardless of character sex. If you feel your male Orc simply MUST wear a wedding DRESS, well, you'll still be able to and can rest content in the knowledge that I'll keep on rolling my eyes every time I see you because the joke is no longer really all that funny even if it DID make me giggle the first few times.

And for those of you who prefer the look of the male costumes on their females, you'll still then be able to use them that way as well. Maybe it's not fair but Western society has now pretty firmly established that "girls can wear boy clothes" while we still, in general, look down on "boys who wear girl clothes." So it comes down to what the player is comfortable with. So I think ZOS is on the right track by making is so either sex can wear any costume. Let's keep that. Even if many of the female costumes DO look terrible on males because of the way they distort the body and give all the dudes "moobs."

Gidorick you are definitely on to something though as well. EVERY costume needs to have both a male and female variant. And I LOVE your suggestions for the already existing costumes.

What I really DON'T want to see is:
1. Way MORE female costumes than male costumes. Do NOT go the way of EA with The Sims ZOS where female characters have well more than three times the clothing options of males. Just NO. Keep it EVEN.
2. Female characters being the only sex that gets scanty attire. That IS a display of sexism ZOS and I had HOPED you were above that. But the differences between the male and female "Redguard" clothing is not looking like a good trend. FIX IT. Put out Redguard female costumes that are as covering as the male ones you have shown in the concept art and don't be jerks and make it look just like the male stuff. Then ALSO put put some male stuff along the lines of what Gidorick has shown you here as a male variant.

Lastly, it would have been nice if you'd given us the ability to make more androgynous looking characters. You can make female characters that look fairly "butch" but for most of the races there's no way in Hades you can make anything other than a stereotypical "manly man." You did the right thing in your portrayal of Tamriel as a world that does not view same gender couples as in any way abnormal or abhorrent. For that you are to be commended, certainly. It would have been nice if you'd gone the extra mile and made things to where players with less than stereotypical concepts of gender could have characters they genuinely feel comfortable with and/or enjoy making.

I agree.
And being able to wear both versions is a very nice idea actually.

ADarklore

Gidorick wrote: »

Mostly though... it's that this just looks terrible:


And I would totally buy that outfit if we could have a male variation:

I don't think the Sand-Kissed Salwar looks terrible on my Altmer. Of course, it would look a LOT better if it looked like the second version. I agree that ZOS needs to start implementing dual-gender costumes and/or giving us MALE versions of female costumes and vice versa. In particular, we need more attire that shows more skin for males... after all, what's the point of offering us the ability to put tattoos on our characters but then no way of actually showing it off in the game.