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BUG: FIXED - 05/28/2019 - Crafting Surveys removed entirely?

  • Grimm13
    Grimm13
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Three Accounts that do not have Elsweyr. Have not gotten one survey since U22. Prior to U22 would get on average 3 surveys or more per account between all the characters.

    Account that has Elsweyr, I get surveys.

    Someone at ZOS does not know how to setup a loot table correctly as this happened with each Expansion until the loot tables was corrected. Find who it is and make them write "I will not exclude accounts on loot tables if they do not purchase the expansion" 1000 times.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_RichLambert
    https://sparkforautism.org/

    Season of DraggingOn
    It's your choice on how you vote with your $

    PC-NA
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
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    Aren't they mainly rng? I get them some days and none other days. Reworking on 3 Crafters again on PC like I had on console.

    Yes, they are RNG.... I have a years worth of data to show they have an approximate 12.5% drop rate. At those odds, the chances of getting exactly ZERO master writs in 3 days (15 characters a day x 6 writs x 3) = 270. you have an 87.5% chance of NOT getting a survey, so...

    (0.875)^270 is the odds of getting NO surveys on any of the writs..

    (0.875)^270 = 2.19 x 10^-16... or about a 1 in 400,000,000,000,000 chance, (1 in 400 TRILLION)
    Edited by tmbrinks on 22 May 2019 15:03
    Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    The Unchained - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger
    60,005 achievement points
  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    I have Elsweyr, I run maximum tier writs on 15 character. First day after release - Monday - I only did the writs on a single character since I have a time saving routine for the characters I don't play that day, meaning only picking up on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and crafting back to back on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday; Sunday is normal. But yesterday, since it was Tuesday I did get to craft 29 writ sets. What I kept noticing is not that the survey drop chance has changed - from my previous experience any given writ has something like 10-15% chance of dropping a survey - but that a significant number of drops were doubles. For example when turning in the woodworking survey I would get both a Glenumbra and a Wrothgar 2 one. I consider 29 x 6 = 174 tosses to be a statistically significant sample so it isn't RNG, but most likely a coding error. As for surveys not dropping at all for people that don't have Elsweyr I cannot verify that myself, but it seems plausible.

    Considering the two opposites, as well an older note by the developers that said that you won't get surveys in areas you don't access too, and the fact that they did introduce Elsweyr surveys, I think the most plausible hypothesis is that the code got jumbled up. So it's possible that piece of code prevents any survey from dropping, instead of simply preventing Elsweyr ones from dropping for people who don't have the DLC yet. They should definitely look at that.
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
    vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor

    PC-EU CP 3000+
    41,000+ Achievement Points before High Isle
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
    Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
    Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
    Valinor Overflow: Trader
    The Traveling Merchant: Silver


    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
    Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
    Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |

    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
    Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
    Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |

    PC-NA CP 1800+
    30,000+ Achievement Points before High Isle
    Member of:
    Savage Blade: Majestic Machette


    Characters:
    Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
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    Even if they had dropped the rate to 10% A 1 in 2.2 BILLION chance of getting zero

    At 7.5% it's still a 1 in 1.3 MILLION chance of getting zero.

    And we're not talking about 1 person... we are talking at least a dozen who've responded in here...

    Yet... radio silence from ZoS... :disappointed:
    Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    The Unchained - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger
    60,005 achievement points
  • Kagukan
    Kagukan
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Kagukan wrote: »
    I had a dry spell for several days also. Then last night, BAM! I even got double surveys on one turn in.

    Do you have Elsweyr?

    Yes I do. Something with having Elsweyr maybe?
  • Eyllora
    Eyllora
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    I own Elsweyr and I also get double surveys since the release of the chapter.

  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
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    Kagukan wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Kagukan wrote: »
    I had a dry spell for several days also. Then last night, BAM! I even got double surveys on one turn in.

    Do you have Elsweyr?

    Yes I do. Something with having Elsweyr maybe?

    Yeah.

    Accounts with Elsweyr seem to be getting double drops of surveys (Blacksmithing/Clothing/Woodworking)

    Accounts without Elsweyr seem to be getting ZERO drops of surveys
    Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    The Unchained - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger
    60,005 achievement points
  • ZOS_GinaBruno
    ZOS_GinaBruno
    Community Manager
    Hey all, we can confirm there is a combination of DLC ownership and ESO+ that is causing some of you to not receive surveys. We're working on getting this fixed as quickly as we can. Thank you for all the information!
    Gina Bruno
    Senior Community Manager
    Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter | My Twitter
    Staff Post
  • Thoragaal
    Thoragaal
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    Hey all, we can confirm there is a combination of DLC ownership and ESO+ that is causing some of you to not receive surveys. We're working on getting this fixed as quickly as we can. Thank you for all the information!

    Thank you, Gina!
    I really hope, and would appreciate, if we all could recieve some kind of a notification on to when the issue has been resolved. I don't wanna have to skip out on my only type of income longer than necessary.
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    "I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.
  • theendoftheriver
    theendoftheriver
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    Hey all, we can confirm there is a combination of DLC ownership and ESO+ that is causing some of you to not receive surveys. We're working on getting this fixed as quickly as we can. Thank you for all the information!
    Thank you!
    Eric Dikkersun - Achernar - EZE - theendoftheriver - Orion Silvercuff
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey all, we can confirm there is a combination of DLC ownership and ESO+ that is causing some of you to not receive surveys. We're working on getting this fixed as quickly as we can. Thank you for all the information!

    Thanks Gina!
    Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    The Unchained - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger
    60,005 achievement points
  • Maggi12
    Maggi12
    ✭✭✭
    Asardes wrote: »
    Considering the two opposites, as well an older note by the developers that said that you won't get surveys in areas you don't access too, and the fact that they did introduce Elsweyr surveys, I think the most plausible hypothesis is that the code got jumbled up. So it's possible that piece of code prevents any survey from dropping, instead of simply preventing Elsweyr ones from dropping for people who don't have the DLC yet. They should definitely look at that.

    Reading your post gives me interesting thoughts...
    I am programmer and such type of coding error in this super huge game means that either they hired new staff (not experienced yet) or just dont have simple testing system. And it is bad news...
  • reoskit
    reoskit
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    Posting to monitor thread & updates.
  • daim
    daim
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    Hey all, we can confirm there is a combination of DLC ownership and ESO+ that is causing some of you to not receive surveys. We're working on getting this fixed as quickly as we can. Thank you for all the information!

    Thanks for the care! Now we can stop crying about it ..for now ;)
    ""I am that which grips the heart in fright, hearkens night and silences the light." It was written on my sword, long…long ago." ―Ajunta Pall
    PC|EU
  • Grimm13
    Grimm13
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Aren't they mainly rng? I get them some days and none other days. Reworking on 3 Crafters again on PC like I had on console.

    Yes, they are RNG.... I have a years worth of data to show they have an approximate 12.5% drop rate. At those odds, the chances of getting exactly ZERO master writs in 3 days (15 characters a day x 6 writs x 3) = 270. you have an 87.5% chance of NOT getting a survey, so...

    (0.875)^270 is the odds of getting NO surveys on any of the writs..

    (0.875)^270 = 2.19 x 10^-16... or about a 1 in 400,000,000,000,000 chance, (1 in 400 TRILLION)

    Yes the RNG should be either separate loot tables based on available areas for the account or one loot table with a if/then qualifier (If the account does not have access then exclude only the accessible items from results).

    Instead the table seems to be exclude all items of same type if any are unacessible by the account. Thus giving no surveys to accounts that do not have Elsweyr.
    https://sparkforautism.org/

    Season of DraggingOn
    It's your choice on how you vote with your $

    PC-NA
  • Grimm13
    Grimm13
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey all, we can confirm there is a combination of DLC ownership and ESO+ that is causing some of you to not receive surveys. We're working on getting this fixed as quickly as we can. Thank you for all the information!

    Thank you for letting us know the right people are looking in on this.
    Edited by Grimm13 on 22 May 2019 18:20
    https://sparkforautism.org/

    Season of DraggingOn
    It's your choice on how you vote with your $

    PC-NA
  • kwinter
    kwinter
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    Gina what about players getting 2 survey maps
  • rumple9
    rumple9
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    I don't have elsweyr.
    Not had any surveys since the update despite doing writs on 8 characters.

    Also only had only 1 intricate piece of jewellery when I usually get 2 per character.

    Are we going to be compensated for this zos ?
    Edited by rumple9 on 22 May 2019 18:38
  • Thoragaal
    Thoragaal
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    rumple9 wrote: »

    Are we going to be compensated for this zos ?

    No.
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    "I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.
  • tommalmm
    tommalmm
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    19 characters on two accounts and no surveys since patch. I'm just curious what's the unlucky combination. I've got a little bit of everything, new and old.
  • TheRealPotoroo
    TheRealPotoroo
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    Hey all, we can confirm there is a combination of DLC ownership and ESO+ that is causing some of you to not receive surveys. We're working on getting this fixed as quickly as we can. Thank you for all the information!

    What about the character bound surveys? Are they intentional? Because they're bloody annoying.
    PC NA, PC EU

    "Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_6850523
  • GnatB
    GnatB
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    Grimm13 wrote: »
    Yes the RNG should be either separate loot tables based on available areas for the account or one loot table with a if/then qualifier (If the account does not have access then exclude only the accessible items from results).

    Instead the table seems to be exclude all items of same type if any are unacessible by the account. Thus giving no surveys to accounts that do not have Elsweyr.

    Eh, sounds to me the former is what is going on. Supposed to be Loot Table A if you have Elsweyr and ESO+. Loot table B if you don't have Elsweyr and have ESO+., Loot Table C if you don't have ESO+ but have... blah blah (I assume pregenerating the permutations is better than doing it individually for each player as they loot things)

    Except they got the "don't have Elsweyr" check for loot table B inverted. So folks with Elsweyr got both A and B loot. Folks without get neither.


    Achievements Suck
  • Solid_Metal
    Solid_Metal
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    i got quite a lot actually, you probably just unlucky ?
    "i will walk through the fog, as i welcome death"
  • TempPlayer
    TempPlayer
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    i got quite a lot actually, you probably just unlucky ?

    I got none, you probably bad at following thread.
  • Solid_Metal
    Solid_Metal
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    TempPlayer wrote: »
    i got quite a lot actually, you probably just unlucky ?

    I got none, you probably bad at following thread.

    i said i got quite a lot, OP said he/she got none, and ask "Crafting Surveys removed entirely?", and i said "you probably unlucky" , and how am i bad at following thread ?, i'm answering OP question
    Edited by Solid_Metal on 23 May 2019 04:17
    "i will walk through the fog, as i welcome death"
  • TempPlayer
    TempPlayer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    TempPlayer wrote: »
    i got quite a lot actually, you probably just unlucky ?

    I got none, you probably bad at following thread.

    i said i got quite a lot, OP said he/she got none, and ask "Crafting Surveys removed entirely?", and i said "you probably unlucky" , and how am i bad at following thread ?, i'm answering OP question

    Read the response from Gina in thread.
  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Maggi12 wrote: »
    Asardes wrote: »
    Considering the two opposites, as well an older note by the developers that said that you won't get surveys in areas you don't access too, and the fact that they did introduce Elsweyr surveys, I think the most plausible hypothesis is that the code got jumbled up. So it's possible that piece of code prevents any survey from dropping, instead of simply preventing Elsweyr ones from dropping for people who don't have the DLC yet. They should definitely look at that.

    Reading your post gives me interesting thoughts...
    I am programmer and such type of coding error in this super huge game means that either they hired new staff (not experienced yet) or just dont have simple testing system. And it is bad news...

    Relax, I've been playing Zenimax games for over 15 years. So I'm used to a whole range of coding bugs. A large chunk of the ones in the single player TES games ended up being ignored by official patches, and instead got fixed by modder made unofficial patches. ESO is different since the critical code is server bound, so they had to put the effort themselves of fixing it.
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
    vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor

    PC-EU CP 3000+
    41,000+ Achievement Points before High Isle
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
    Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
    Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
    Valinor Overflow: Trader
    The Traveling Merchant: Silver


    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
    Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
    Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |

    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
    Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
    Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |

    PC-NA CP 1800+
    30,000+ Achievement Points before High Isle
    Member of:
    Savage Blade: Majestic Machette


    Characters:
    Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |
  • rootimus
    rootimus
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    Hey all, we can confirm there is a combination of DLC ownership and ESO+ that is causing some of you to not receive surveys. We're working on getting this fixed as quickly as we can. Thank you for all the information!

    No surveys is definitely a feature, not a bug. Now if you could just become englightened enough to dump the raw mats straight into our bags (like the packs of refined mats we also get from writs)...
    Even on the internet, clear communication is important; it can be the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"; the difference between "knowing your s***" and "knowing you're s***".
    Greybeards & Gals - Civilised, laid-back, mature gamers. Beards optional. |
  • redlink1979
    redlink1979
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    Nice. Confirming my thought: early access = beta testing. lol :D
    Edited by redlink1979 on 23 May 2019 10:18
    "Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"
    • Sons of the Night Mother [PS5][EU] 2165 CP
    • Daggerfall's Mightiest [PS5][NA] 1910 CP
    • SweetTrolls [PC][EU] 1950 CP
    • Bacon Rats [PC][NA] 1850 CP
  • daim
    daim
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    What about the character bound surveys? Are they intentional? Because they're bloody annoying.

    What do you mean ? Don't tell me they are now character bound ? I'm not going to start running around the worldmap every day with all of my toons to gather up the Surveys.

    Current system is ok when you can gather the surveys on one toon and do them once in a while ( and spend a day doing them in the process *sigh*). If they will be character bound I just rather not have them at all.
    Edited by daim on 23 May 2019 10:50
    ""I am that which grips the heart in fright, hearkens night and silences the light." It was written on my sword, long…long ago." ―Ajunta Pall
    PC|EU
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