Item Set Testing in Vengeance

ZOS_Amy

Hello All,

As part of our ongoing PvP work in ESO, we will be testing the addition of Item Sets in the Vengeance campaign next week. For this test, most Item Set "final bonuses" will be active as we look at server performance. This includes Mythics, Monster masks and shoulders, and five- or three-piece set "final bonuses." Other stats from Item Set bonuses will not be active during this test, even though the UI displays them as enabled.

Some sets are currently not providing bonuses, and this is a known issue, though the majority are.

With this test, both the Gray Host and Blackreach Cyrodiil campaigns will be closed from July 20th to July 27th, unless it is determined that we need to turn them back on due to performance issues in Vengeance.

As always, please let us know your thoughts and feedback during the testing period.

Erickson9610

I'm not a fan of item sets in Vengeance, personally.

ItsNotLiving

What’s the point of vengeance if I blow everyone up with vicious death?

React

Is this test going to help pinpoint the performance issues that translate to Grey Host? Will that data be used to benefit Grey Host? The population indicates vengeance is not popular whatsoever amongst most PVP players, and as someone who has no interest in vengeance, continuing to participate in tests which will not be used to better my preferred PVP environment feels pointless.

Further, enabling these sets within the vengeance ruleset feels absolutely unhinged. How exactly is that going to work? Everything is standardized in vengeance, but suddenly we have rallying cry, vicious death, balorgh, acuity, null arca, monomyth, etc? That sounds like it is going to be an miserable experience.

Techwolf_Lupindo

Need werewolf more then sets. Allow us to play what we want and balance around that. You have different races, classes, etc. Balance can be done via gear and skills.

olsborg

So in "reality" this will just be a dumbed down version of Gray Host? Where item sets rule the meta and all the negative that brings with it, the reason ppl play vengeance atm is to get away from the braindead meta that rules on GH and on vengeance skillfull play is more in the driverseat.... Sad news indeed.

tomofhyrule

I thought that one of the benefits of Vengeance was that item sets were not there.

The people who prefer Vengeance are not playing it because they like area abilities having caps of 3. They like not having to deal with proc sets that make ball groups effectively immortal.

Who is this for? The people who want their sets don’t want effect caps. The people who want everyone on one playing field don’t want others carried by sets.

This really sounds like a way to deter both Cyrodiil populations more than anything else.

Erickson9610

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

Need werewolf more then sets. Allow us to play what we want and balance around that. You have different races, classes, etc. Balance can be done via gear and skills.

Agreed 100%. When are we going to get Werewolf (and Vampire) skill lines added to Vengeance?

tomofhyrule

I also would like to highlight this:

ZOS_Amy wrote: »

Some sets are currently not providing bonuses, and this is a known issue, though the majority are.

One of the major annoyances about the old version of Ravenwatch (the no-proc campaign) was that there was no official list of which sets worked and which didn’t. The only list was on the forums, and it was created and maintained by players who tested things themselves. No devs commented on why some that should have worked didn’t or why others that shouldn’t have worked did.

If the plan is to add proc sets in Vengeance, but not every set works, the devs must give a list of sets that are confirmed to work.

bofh666

aaaaand now you destroy Vengeance as well :'(

blktauna

Please don't do this. The joy of Vengence is not having to worry about proc set nonsense

CaiWenji

Great.. now I will have 7 less days to reach max veterancy level using Cyrodiil. I refuse to play vengeance! Please stop forcing us into an almost completely dead pvp mode. Just remove it and replace it with Icereach.

opaj

So, I hardly ever PvP, but when I do, I prefer Vengeance. Weigh my feedback accordingly.

My initial impression is that adding item sets works against what draws me to Vengeance, which is the largely level playing field.

Major_Mangle

Positive to this, Vengeance currently being incredibly dull with next to zero variety is making it very boring for me. Adding proper itemization into the mix as a test adds more fun and makes for more interesting combat. Highly looking forward to this

tsaescishoeshiner

Vengeance was made to improve performance. So testing item sets makes sense to see how much they burden the server with the simplified skills.

Arthtur

If this is really just a test then thats fine.
If not, this will turn into ball groups or organized groups farming solo players who cant do anything about that, and then nobody will play Vengeance for real. Main attraction of Vengeance is lack of power creep from stacking multiple sets, dont destroy it.

acastanza_ESO

Some sets are currently not providing bonuses, and this is a known issue, though the majority are.

Could we perhaps get a list of sets that are known to not be working properly for this so that we can prepare and make adjustments? (And also not send bug reports for things that are already known)

aetherix8

The biggest appeal of Vengeance is by far the total absence of proc effect item sets. Most players who participate regularly would welcome flat stat sets, but procs are clearly despised by many Vengeance enjoyers. I hope to never see proc sets again in Vengeance once this test concludes.

SneaK

Stop shutting down greyhost with this filth.

Alosis

It's fine to test these changes if one wants to volunteer for it, but why remove Greyhost and Blackreach? There are people that don't want to be part of this "test" or want to participate in Vengeance. You're only inconveniencing them by removing their preferred play mode.

Artisian0001

Why do we keep closing the campaigns people actually play in for a mode that far less people play? If you want to keep vengeance open and waste resources on a mode nobody plays, sure have your way, but why the constant closing of the actual populated camps in favor of it? It's no wonder so many people got laid off when decisions like these are being made. There is just zero logic at all in these decisions, do better.

Erickson9610

Alosis wrote: »

It's fine to test these changes if one wants to volunteer for it, but why remove Greyhost and Blackreach? There are people that don't want to be part of this "test" or want to participate in Vengeance. You're only inconveniencing them by removing their preferred play mode.

Consider that Vengeance is mostly dead when the population is split between three campaigns. Focusing people into one campaign ensures there is enough population to properly test these changes.

Further, there are always people playing Vengeance when it's the only campaign. Despite all of the people complaining about it, it's still an active campaign during these tests.


Hopefully when Crossplay is implemented, the higher population caps of Vengeance is able to support all of the players from every platform in Cyrodiil at the same time, without fragmenting the playerbase. I think that's what these Vengeance tests are for — making something as similar to Grey Host as possible, but with a higher population cap.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee

ZOS_Amy wrote: »

Hello All,

As part of our ongoing PvP work in ESO, we will be testing the addition of Item Sets in the Vengeance campaign next week. For this test, most Item Set "final bonuses" will be active as we look at server performance. This includes Mythics, Monster masks and shoulders, and five- or three-piece set "final bonuses." Other stats from Item Set bonuses will not be active during this test, even though the UI displays them as enabled.

Some sets are currently not providing bonuses, and this is a known issue, though the majority are.

With this test, both the Gray Host and Blackreach Cyrodiil campaigns will be closed from July 20th to July 27th, unless it is determined that we need to turn them back on due to performance issues in Vengeance.

As always, please let us know your thoughts and feedback during the testing period.

How many times do we have to go through this?

Nobody is playing Vengeance. Nobody is asking for more Vengeance development. Every time you shut down Gray Host to push another test, it feels like the wishes of the actual PvP community are being completely ignored.

We are tired of being forced into a dead campaign while the real issues in Cyrodiil remain unresolved.

Stop trying to make Vengeance happen. It hasn’t happened, it isn’t happening, and it won’t happen. Fix Gray Host instead.

At this point, these repeated decisions genuinely make me question the leadership and direction of PvP development.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Alosis wrote: »

It's fine to test these changes if one wants to volunteer for it, but why remove Greyhost and Blackreach? There are people that don't want to be part of this "test" or want to participate in Vengeance. You're only inconveniencing them by removing their preferred play mode.

Consider that Vengeance is mostly dead when the population is split between three campaigns. Focusing people into one campaign ensures there is enough population to properly test these changes.

Further, there are always people playing Vengeance when it's the only campaign. Despite all of the people complaining about it, it's still an active campaign during these tests.


Hopefully when Crossplay is implemented, the higher population caps of Vengeance is able to support all of the players from every platform in Cyrodiil at the same time, without fragmenting the playerbase. I think that's what these Vengeance tests are for — making something as similar to Grey Host as possible, but with a higher population cap.

The fact that people play Vengeance when it is literally the only available option is not evidence that people want Vengeance. It’s evidence that people want to play Cyrodiil.

By that logic, if you removed every PvE zone except Coldharbour and everyone logged into Coldharbour, you wouldn’t conclude that Coldharbour is suddenly everyone’s favorite zone.

Vengeance being dead whenever Gray Host exists is actually the strongest possible evidence against it. Given a choice, players overwhelmingly choose Gray Host.

Furthermore, these tests have been going on for years at this point. If the goal is merely data collection, how much more data is needed? At some point, repeatedly shutting down the preferred campaign to force participation stops feeling like testing and starts feeling like trying to artificially prop up an unpopular campaign.

If the long-term goal is crossplay and higher population caps, then great—but that doesn’t justify repeatedly removing the campaign that the community clearly prefers in the present.

forum_propagandist

In the face of the recent layoffs I was anticipating that developer time would stop being wasted on Vengeance. How disappointing.

Artisian0001

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Alosis wrote: »

It's fine to test these changes if one wants to volunteer for it, but why remove Greyhost and Blackreach? There are people that don't want to be part of this "test" or want to participate in Vengeance. You're only inconveniencing them by removing their preferred play mode.

Consider that Vengeance is mostly dead when the population is split between three campaigns. Focusing people into one campaign ensures there is enough population to properly test these changes.

Further, there are always people playing Vengeance when it's the only campaign. Despite all of the people complaining about it, it's still an active campaign during these tests.


Hopefully when Crossplay is implemented, the higher population caps of Vengeance is able to support all of the players from every platform in Cyrodiil at the same time, without fragmenting the playerbase. I think that's what these Vengeance tests are for — making something as similar to Grey Host as possible, but with a higher population cap.

Of course it's active DURING THE TESTS, no other camp exists to play in. What a nonsensical point. Imagine if there were 30 gyms in your city and the decided to close 29 of them, and the least populated gym now all of a sudden had population. Nonsense. Yes, you can get more population in them by closing the camps so you can actually test things, but they have already tested and heard the player bases opinions, they are willing to sacrifice performance for something better than vengeance, there is no reason to shut down what people actually want to do more testing for something people don't want.

CannedChicken

olsborg wrote: »

So in "reality" this will just be a dumbed down version of Gray Host? Where item sets rule the meta and all the negative that brings with it, the reason ppl play vengeance atm is to get away from the braindead meta that rules on GH and on vengeance skillfull play is more in the driverseat.... Sad news indeed.

But no one plays vengeance so you are saying no one is really trying to do what you are saying?

Artisian0001

ZOS_Amy wrote: »

Hello All,

As part of our ongoing PvP work in ESO, we will be testing the addition of Item Sets in the Vengeance campaign next week. For this test, most Item Set "final bonuses" will be active as we look at server performance. This includes Mythics, Monster masks and shoulders, and five- or three-piece set "final bonuses." Other stats from Item Set bonuses will not be active during this test, even though the UI displays them as enabled.

Some sets are currently not providing bonuses, and this is a known issue, though the majority are.

With this test, both the Gray Host and Blackreach Cyrodiil campaigns will be closed from July 20th to July 27th, unless it is determined that we need to turn them back on due to performance issues in Vengeance.

As always, please let us know your thoughts and feedback during the testing period.

Wasting resources after mass layoffs on things the VAST majority of the player base does not want is so tone deaf and telling of what's going wrong with this company.

CannedChicken

Artisian0001 wrote: »

ZOS_Amy wrote: »

Hello All,

As part of our ongoing PvP work in ESO, we will be testing the addition of Item Sets in the Vengeance campaign next week. For this test, most Item Set "final bonuses" will be active as we look at server performance. This includes Mythics, Monster masks and shoulders, and five- or three-piece set "final bonuses." Other stats from Item Set bonuses will not be active during this test, even though the UI displays them as enabled.

Some sets are currently not providing bonuses, and this is a known issue, though the majority are.

With this test, both the Gray Host and Blackreach Cyrodiil campaigns will be closed from July 20th to July 27th, unless it is determined that we need to turn them back on due to performance issues in Vengeance.

As always, please let us know your thoughts and feedback during the testing period.

Wasting resources after mass layoffs on things the VAST majority of the player base does not want is so tone deaf and telling of what's going wrong with this company.

They really need to focus on doing balancing on DK. No one wants to play vengeance. The numbers have spoken.

Alosis

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Consider that Vengeance is mostly dead when the population is split between three campaigns. Focusing people into one campaign ensures there is enough population to properly test these changes.

Indeed, there is a reason Vengeance is mostly dead when all three campaigns are active. I understand fully that Vengeance can't pull in enough people for a proper "test" without taking drastic measures like shutting down the other campaigns. It doesn't make what they're doing any less frustrating for those that want nothing to do with Vengeance.

BigPlays420

Please, enough. The community is exhausted.

We don't want more Vengeance tests. We don't want our campaigns repeatedly shut down. We don't want to be forced into a ruleset that has consistently failed to retain players whenever alternatives exist.

Every single time we think we're finally done with Vengeance, it comes back again.

Just let it go. Please. Stop forcing this campaign on the PvP community and start listening to what your players have been saying for years. Enough is enough.