Bahraha's Curse set Testing and Theorycrafting

ThatNeonZebraAgain · March 2016

actosh wrote: »

Bash/interupt can proc it.

Oh nice! Thanks for reporting.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · March 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

On paper it seems good. However, I believe Krags hope is still better. Can get higher dps that doesn't depend on rng and better magicka regen. Now the question is does the higher dps from Krags provid the same if not better benefit to nb siphoning heals from increased damage compared to the extra heal from bahraha? Let's be honest, the desicrated ground is meh in pvp because the size is small and most people back peddle out quickly. So really it's for the heal benefit.

I have to respectfully disagree with this. Last night I spent a few hours in Cyrodiil, part of which I used my tanking set with Bahraha's to see how it would fare. While I didn't record the damage and heal values, I had a few circumstances in which BC not only saved my life, but also did enough damage to win me the fight. The healing from BC in cyrodiil is not negligible, and people don't move out of it as often as we assume. I think we are right to assume so, but in practice people don't even see the desecration half the time.

In one situation I was jumped by a NB. I like to give credit where credit is due, so I should say that this player was pretty smart. He did good damage, moved out of things he shouldn't be standing in (including BC when he saw it) and knew when to take advantage of opportunities. After he jumped me, he followed it with a fear, and managed to burst me to <50%. I proc'd BC and was very quickly healed back to full. It felt like I was healed up immediately (and I was by myself), but everything "feels" like it happens immediately in Cyrodiil. It was probably closer to a few seconds. He noticed it, and moved out of the way. Problem is, BC works a lot like Daedric Mines: you know if you stand in it, you're gonna have a bad time, and it forces the other player to play more on your terms. It's also pretty useful to fear people into the desecration, much like how many NBs will fear players into Daedric Mines and the like.

The same utility and healing is noticeable in large group scenarios too. There were numerous occasions where I was balls-deep in 20+ enemy groups. The snare is very useful, the heals seem really strong when there are multiple people standing in it, and it's relatively easy to proc. For magicka NB sap tanks, this set is golden imo, because we typically buff our magic damage and healing received, so this set meshes perfectly with our general setup. There were a few times where entire groups were focusing me and they couldn't take me down, granted for most of the night I had a healer with me. We ran in a group of only 6 last night.

I really need to record the actual heal values though. I got too caught up in having fun and neglected my testing duties :P

That's awesome to hear. I've been trying to decide between 5 Light with Bahraha's or 5 Heavy for PvP. The numbers have me lean towards Light, but I really wanna run a Heavy Armor PvP build. Even with 5 Light right now, I still feel like it is hard to sustain resources, and damage output can still be somewhat low even with 3.2k spell power.

Autolycus · March 2016

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

On paper it seems good. However, I believe Krags hope is still better. Can get higher dps that doesn't depend on rng and better magicka regen. Now the question is does the higher dps from Krags provid the same if not better benefit to nb siphoning heals from increased damage compared to the extra heal from bahraha? Let's be honest, the desicrated ground is meh in pvp because the size is small and most people back peddle out quickly. So really it's for the heal benefit.

I have to respectfully disagree with this. Last night I spent a few hours in Cyrodiil, part of which I used my tanking set with Bahraha's to see how it would fare. While I didn't record the damage and heal values, I had a few circumstances in which BC not only saved my life, but also did enough damage to win me the fight. The healing from BC in cyrodiil is not negligible, and people don't move out of it as often as we assume. I think we are right to assume so, but in practice people don't even see the desecration half the time.

In one situation I was jumped by a NB. I like to give credit where credit is due, so I should say that this player was pretty smart. He did good damage, moved out of things he shouldn't be standing in (including BC when he saw it) and knew when to take advantage of opportunities. After he jumped me, he followed it with a fear, and managed to burst me to <50%. I proc'd BC and was very quickly healed back to full. It felt like I was healed up immediately (and I was by myself), but everything "feels" like it happens immediately in Cyrodiil. It was probably closer to a few seconds. He noticed it, and moved out of the way. Problem is, BC works a lot like Daedric Mines: you know if you stand in it, you're gonna have a bad time, and it forces the other player to play more on your terms. It's also pretty useful to fear people into the desecration, much like how many NBs will fear players into Daedric Mines and the like.

The same utility and healing is noticeable in large group scenarios too. There were numerous occasions where I was balls-deep in 20+ enemy groups. The snare is very useful, the heals seem really strong when there are multiple people standing in it, and it's relatively easy to proc. For magicka NB sap tanks, this set is golden imo, because we typically buff our magic damage and healing received, so this set meshes perfectly with our general setup. There were a few times where entire groups were focusing me and they couldn't take me down, granted for most of the night I had a healer with me. We ran in a group of only 6 last night.

I really need to record the actual heal values though. I got too caught up in having fun and neglected my testing duties :P

That's awesome to hear. I've been trying to decide between 5 Light with Bahraha's or 5 Heavy for PvP. The numbers have me lean towards Light, but I really wanna run a Heavy Armor PvP build. Even with 5 Light right now, I still feel like it is hard to sustain resources, and damage output can still be somewhat low even with 3.2k spell power.

Hmm, well for anything other than trials you'd be fine wearing light. Thing is, tooltip damage for BC doesn't scale from magicka/stam or SD/WD. It will be buffed with CP into elemental expert, but that's about it. So in terms of dealing damage, BC isn't really the way to go. It's great for the snare and the heals. Even with the well-known downfalls to heavy armor, I still choose to run it as a matter of preference, and having the tooltip constant no matter the armor type is great from a tank perspective. I have a hard time imagining it as anything but a tanking set truthfully.

As much as I love BC, it's going to be my new Leeching Set and no more (so not for trials basically). Once I get ahold of my Lunar Bastion I'll be giving that a go.

SeptimusDova · March 2016

reflective light/ dawns wrath procs it, meteor procs it.impale procs it. need one more piece of Fasalla's Guile. Picked up a BC shield and mace last week. BC nice set.

cschwingeb14_ESO · March 2016

Armor procs like this will also scale with your crit chance, damage and penetration. If the proc can crit, then the 5 light passives will increase the damage by about 15%

Autolycus · March 2016

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Armor procs like this will also scale with your crit chance, damage and penetration. If the proc can crit, then the 5 light passives will increase the damage by about 15%

Ah, great to know! Does the proc also scale with crit damage?

SeptimusDova · March 2016

@autolycus. yes I am getting 2k Heal ticks off of it. If you want to overheal try BC with Briarheart. Toss caltrops and enjoy

Savos_Saren · March 2016

I actually use Bahara's Curse on my Dunmer Magicka DK Tank build. It's pretty agressive, too!

Try this set up:

5 PC Bahara's Curse- 3 jewelry, 2 armor
5 PC Kagrenac's Hope- 3 armor, 2 swords
2 PC Valkyn Skoria- head and shoulders (of course)

I use a 5 heavy/2 light set up.
64 Attributes in Magicka.
Mundus: The Apprentice
Jewelry is Arcane w/ Spell Damage enchants
All armor is Triglyph w/ Divines

As we know, Valkyn got a huge buff and it synergizes well with Dunmer DKs. Bahara's Curse ALSO synergizes with Valkyn because it proccs it! Not only that- but as a tank- you can always use the extra DPS, Heals, and snare! If your Ardent Flame skills aren't snaring your enemies- Bahara's Curse sure as hell will!

SeptimusDova · March 2016

@Jaburns awesome !!

ThatNeonZebraAgain · March 2016

jaburns wrote: »

I actually use Bahara's Curse on my Dunmer Magicka DK Tank build. It's pretty agressive, too!

Try this set up:

5 PC Bahara's Curse- 3 jewelry, 2 armor
5 PC Kagrenac's Hope- 3 armor, 2 swords
2 PC Valkyn Skoria- head and shoulders (of course)

I use a 5 heavy/2 light set up.
64 Attributes in Magicka.
Mundus: The Apprentice
Jewelry is Arcane w/ Spell Damage enchants
All armor is Triglyph w/ Divines

As we know, Valkyn got a huge buff and it synergizes well with Dunmer DKs. Bahara's Curse ALSO synergizes with Valkyn because it proccs it! Not only that- but as a tank- you can always use the extra DPS, Heals, and snare! If your Ardent Flame skills aren't snaring your enemies- Bahara's Curse sure as hell will!

Very cool idea! What is your total spell damage and magicka regen like with this setup?

Savos_Saren · March 2016

@SeptimusDova and @ThatNeonZebraAgain

Gents,

When I'm in "tanky mode" with Sword (defending) and Board (divines) equipped:

Mag: 33558 Mag Regen: 845
Health: 24321 Health Regen: 397
Stam: 13117 Stam Regen: 574

Spell Dmg (unbuffed): 2348 Spell Dmg (buffed): 2817

Spell Resist (unbuffed): 21706 Spell Resist (buffed): 26986
Phys Resist (unbuffed): 21495 Phys Resist (buffed): 26775

I just swap bars to "DPS mode" with DW Nirnhoned swords (one fire enchant, the other steal magicka):

Mag: 36825 Mag Regen: 845
Health: 26106 Health Regen: 397
Stam: 13117 Stam Regen: 574

Spell Dmg (unbuffed): 2615 Spell Dmg (buffed): 3138 as a freakin' tank!!!!

Spell Resist (unbuffed): 22403 Spell Resist (buffed): 28633
Phys Resist (unbuffed): 28633 Phys Resist (buffed): 24055

As you can see- you get pretty damn high spell power as a heavy armored tank. You're not maxed out on resistances- but that's exactly the point... you don't NEED to be maxed out on resistance. I've tanked vWGT, vCOA, and survived through all kinds of fun PVP. (I have a slightly different PVP set up that doesn't change my build... I just swap a few skills and on one of my bars, I slot a Kagrenac's Inferno Staff)

I can go over my slotted skills if you'd like- but this post is getting long. I'll do it on another post if you want!

AverageJo3Gam3r · March 2016

Sounds interesting. Where does it drop and is it bound?

ThatNeonZebraAgain · March 2016

jaburns wrote: »

@SeptimusDova and @ThatNeonZebraAgain

Gents,

When I'm in "tanky mode" with Sword (defending) and Board (divines) equipped:

Mag: 33558 Mag Regen: 845
Health: 24321 Health Regen: 397
Stam: 13117 Stam Regen: 574

Spell Dmg (unbuffed): 2348 Spell Dmg (buffed): 2817

Spell Resist (unbuffed): 21706 Spell Resist (buffed): 26986
Phys Resist (unbuffed): 21495 Phys Resist (buffed): 26775

I just swap bars to "DPS mode" with DW Nirnhoned swords (one fire enchant, the other steal magicka):

Mag: 36825 Mag Regen: 845
Health: 26106 Health Regen: 397
Stam: 13117 Stam Regen: 574

Spell Dmg (unbuffed): 2615 Spell Dmg (buffed): 3138 as a freakin' tank!!!!

Spell Resist (unbuffed): 22403 Spell Resist (buffed): 28633
Phys Resist (unbuffed): 28633 Phys Resist (buffed): 24055

As you can see- you get pretty damn high spell power as a heavy armored tank. You're not maxed out on resistances- but that's exactly the point... you don't NEED to be maxed out on resistance. I've tanked vWGT, vCOA, and survived through all kinds of fun PVP. (I have a slightly different PVP set up that doesn't change my build... I just swap a few skills and on one of my bars, I slot a Kagrenac's Inferno Staff)

I can go over my slotted skills if you'd like- but this post is getting long. I'll do it on another post if you want!

That's awesome, nice work, and thanks for reporting!

SmalltalkJava · April 2016

I noticed today on my vampire mage sorcerer...

Vampire Poison Mist procs it
Vampire Invigorating Drain procs it
Streak Procs it
My aoe Crystal Blast Procs it, interesting that it procs before the projectile lands.

I have not seen these skills proc it...
Velociius Curse, Liquid Lightening, volcanic rune, daedric tomb mines, my sorc pulse electric pbaoe(can't remember the name atm)
My pet abilities don't seem to proc it.

I'd be interested in a sorc tank build using this set. Just no ideas on how to do it.

s7732425ub17_ESO · April 2016

This set is designed specifically to be a good newbie set. It is NOT an endgame set. The bonuses this set provides are much better than most other sets dropped before level 50. It's also one of the coolest new sets of the DLC, and it's not a pain to obtain. But once you get past level 50, there's no reason to use this anymore.

In case you guys missed it, this set makes it easier for new or casual players to run any build they want. The number one reason new players die is because they don't run heals on their build. This set pretty much provides a pocket healer. It won't save you from massive damage spikes, but it makes killing trash a lot quicker and easier.

Autolycus · April 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

This set is designed specifically to be a good newbie set. It is NOT an endgame set. The bonuses this set provides are much better than most other sets dropped before level 50. It's also one of the coolest new sets of the DLC, and it's not a pain to obtain. But once you get past level 50, there's no reason to use this anymore.

In case you guys missed it, this set makes it easier for new or casual players to run any build they want. The number one reason new players die is because they don't run heals on their build. This set pretty much provides a pocket healer. It won't save you from massive damage spikes, but it makes killing trash a lot quicker and easier.

In what builds and context have you tested this endgame? The reason I ask is that this contradicts my own experiences and testing. My results suggest that the set is geared predominantly towards tanks (endgame or not) and for pvp builds, but do not suggest in the slightest that the set is useless for veteran characters. I've posted a couple of times already on practical applications of this set (in this thread), and so have others. I'm not outright discrediting your opinion here, but I'm curious as to how you support it, since we have different views.

dsalter · April 2016

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

What does/does not proc it:

Basic Light/Heavy attacks: No

Bash/interrupt: Yes

NB Class:

Shadow Image: No

Debilitate: No, not even on first hit (though I suspect the initial direct damage on Cripple would)

Sap Essence: Yes

Swallow Soul: Yes

Concealed Weapon: Yes

Refreshing Path: Yes, but only on first hit

Alliance War:

Razor Caltrops: only on initial direct damage hit gained from this morph.

Proxy Det: No (quite disappointing)

Guild:

Necrotic Orb: No (also disappointing)

Structured Entropy: Yes, but only on first hit.

Destro Staff:

Flame Reach: Yes

Unstable Wall of Fire: No (not on initial hit nor last explosion)

Crushing Shock: Yes

Fire Ring: Yes, but only on initial hit (not fire DoT component)

Proc Summary:
Despite what the tooltip says, it only procs off casted direct damage abilities (ie not basic attacks) and only initial hits of some DoTs. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn

If you test the set yourself and find other abilities this set procs or not with, please let me know and I'll add to this list.

it procs from Liquid lightning, frost blockade (not tested shock or fire yet), destructive reach (frost), Dark Shards (it lands before the projectile so it can afflict the target even when dodged), Heavy destro staff charge, Ice Comet, the lich crystal explosion from monster set, enchantments (this one may need further testing but it does seem to work on light attacks if enchant procced).
this is an AoE cripple build i'v been running in cyro, nasty stuff, works a treat in both PvE and PvP

dsalter · April 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

This set is designed specifically to be a good newbie set. It is NOT an endgame set. The bonuses this set provides are much better than most other sets dropped before level 50. It's also one of the coolest new sets of the DLC, and it's not a pain to obtain. But once you get past level 50, there's no reason to use this anymore.

In case you guys missed it, this set makes it easier for new or casual players to run any build they want. The number one reason new players die is because they don't run heals on their build. This set pretty much provides a pocket healer. It won't save you from massive damage spikes, but it makes killing trash a lot quicker and easier.

i'v been using it at both v16 pvp and pve, it's powerful for AoE

ced30 · April 2016

jaburns wrote: »

I actually use Bahara's Curse on my Dunmer Magicka DK Tank build. It's pretty agressive, too!

Try this set up:

5 PC Bahara's Curse- 3 jewelry, 2 armor
5 PC Kagrenac's Hope- 3 armor, 2 swords
2 PC Valkyn Skoria- head and shoulders (of course)

I use a 5 heavy/2 light set up.
64 Attributes in Magicka.
Mundus: The Apprentice
Jewelry is Arcane w/ Spell Damage enchants
All armor is Triglyph w/ Divines

As we know, Valkyn got a huge buff and it synergizes well with Dunmer DKs. Bahara's Curse ALSO synergizes with Valkyn because it proccs it! Not only that- but as a tank- you can always use the extra DPS, Heals, and snare! If your Ardent Flame skills aren't snaring your enemies- Bahara's Curse sure as hell will!

Thanks for the infos

I've been trying this build today, along with some variations (dunmer mag dk too)
I'm running it with sword and board on my 2 bars, nirn sword on my dps bar and defensive on the 2nd,
both shields are reinforced (i have the cp passive increasing shield's armor by 75% and 10% block cost reduction on top of that).
Atronach mundus stone instead of apprentice.
My gear is purple except for gold weapons / shields, glyphs are purple too.

it seems to work pretty well so far, except the proc does dmg under 1k on players and npc in cyrodiil, probably my spell power, i got like 2k+ sp

I tried with engine guardian and skoria, i like both so far.

accina · April 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

It won't save you from massive damage spikes

I wouldn't say that.

Xsorus · April 2016

My problem with it is it doesn't come with Impen Trait

AverageJo3Gam3r · April 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

My problem with it is it doesn't come with Impen Trait

But it comes in jewelry so you only need two pieces on the body.

vicius1981 · April 2016

Someone know if it proc with WB,brawler,crit rush,volley or arrow spray?thx

Vanzen · April 2016

Mag DK
5l/1h/1m
Bahrahax5/Magnusx5/Skoriax2.
Can you think of a better compromise dam/sustain/survival ?
Add a dot build on top.
This set is a blessing for DK.

Autolycus · April 2016

vicius1981 wrote: »

Someone know if it proc with WB,brawler,crit rush,volley or arrow spray?thx

I believe all of these, except volley, will proc BC. In this list, volley is the only skill that is not a direct damage ability, rather it is a damage over time ability. I haven't personally tested it with 2H skills, but given its functionality with other direct damage abilities, I'm confident that this is true.

vicius1981 · April 2016

just tried and can confirm that 2h skills procs BC...tonight i test bow skills.

SirDopey · April 2016

PVP: You guys reckon you could get high enough spell damage to be potent running 5 vicious death 5 bahrahas???

Vanzen · April 2016

SirDopey wrote: »

PVP: You guys reckon you could get high enough spell damage to be potent running 5 vicious death 5 bahrahas???

Tried it.
Not enough regen nor dammage. I think you need seducer/magnus/kagrenac to make it work.

Autolycus · April 2016

SirDopey wrote: »

PVP: You guys reckon you could get high enough spell damage to be potent running 5 vicious death 5 bahrahas???

BC is not a damage-dealing set. There are other sets that are far more reliable in terms of getting VD procs. Since BC doesn't scale with your magicka and spell damage, you'd be better off pairing VD with something like Julianos or Kags. You may be able to make it work, and if you do I'd be interested in hearing your results, but I reckon BC is unlikely to pump out the damage you need to make the pair really shine.

AverageJo3Gam3r · April 2016

I've been having success with 2pc engine guardian, 5pc BC, 5pc morkuldan on my DK stam tank. This combo is great at free DPS while tanking dungeons. It's passable in PvP too as something different, especially in IC sewers. Not gonna light the world on fire but it works.